Westlake Publishing Forums

All the input is much appreciated!

Volker, I have concidered using an airbrush instead of a wash, but I think the wash collects more in th right areas, all the nooks and crannies and in between all the gears and stuff. I fear that the airrbrushing will affect the higer spots, and end up in places that rather should be higlighted instead of darkened. 

NK, you are more spot on than you possible could realize! They actually did have some severe leakages around the skylights. It seems like they never fixed those leaks, because in my reference pictures from the late thirties they have been roofed over. It is no big surprise that the skylights leaked, the design was rather primitive.

Unfortunately, it seems that my crane was not affected by the leaks, I think it was installed at  later date.
But some curren images shows that it indeed has collected a fair amount of dust. The images are taken by me a couple of years back, so it it is possble not entirely prototypical to have them sp dirty in a scene from nearly 100 years ago. But it is a good reference, nevertheless.

It's nice for ignorance to be right once every so often!

With complicated weathering like this, I am tempted to think that you can't get it right straight away. I think of the John Singer Sargent/Alberto Giacometti school of painting -  put it on, take it off, put it on, take some off is the way to go. Back and forth, and maybe with things you don't normally use like pencils and erasers, watercolour pencils etc. Its an amazing opportunity to experiment. I can't wait to see the next iteration

I weathered the rest of the crane today, and I'm not entirely happy.

The problems with the wash marks were even more visible this time, and I tried to smooth things out with pigments and remove the worst edges with a paper pencil.

But as NK writes, you have to practice! I mean, I have hardly done any serious weathering in my modelling career.

Make no mistake, think the results are passable, but with practice I should be able to do better.

What I really would like some comments on is the choice of base layer paints, the best thinner/paint for making washes and the best technique for applying the was. I suspect that my X20A/XF paints combo really is not the ideal one. A main drawback is that you can not soften the edges with straight thinner after the paint have set.

Hauk,

I think the lower example is a really good start. Maybe you may try some enamel / oil based colors and a solvent. It gives your work a special odour, but may eliminate the problems of water or alcohol based thinners. Whenever I try to achieve very softly outfading washes I prefer changing to those oil industry based products gone out of fashion. Some people even go so far as to use expressions like "Humbrol rules"  (Hi there, Barney).

Volker

Is it generally agreed that acrylics like Tamiya XF series diluted with isopropanol (X20A) is a poor choice for washes?

I haven't done washes with Tamiya XF paint, but a modeller I know really likes thinning Tamiya with 70% isopropanol and says even later he can easily remove the paint with 90% isopropanol even after it has been on a model for a long time, so it seems like it should work for thin washes.

Hauk -- you may want to check out a master modeler named Michael Rinaldi who uses artists oils to create some absolutely stunning weathering and aging effects on his models. I have a couple of his books which describes the process he uses. He is also available on YouTube and hosts regular podcasts where he demonstrates his methods on different projects he is working on.



Stuart

Quote from: Stuart on August 16, 2026, 04:16:57 PMHauk -- you may want to check out a master modeler named Michael Rinaldi who uses artists oils to create some absolutely stunning weathering and aging effects on his models. I have a couple of his books which describes the process he uses. He is also available on YouTube and hosts regular podcasts where he demonstrates his methods on different projects he is working on.

Funny you should mention Rinaldi and his books, Stuart! I have his City Tractor book, and I have learnt a lot from it. Regarding his Oil Paint Rendering and Chipping Books I ordered those more than 5 years ago, but still havent recieved either of them... I do have acces to his YouTube videos, and there are tons of things to learn.

I have startet to suspect that my choice of paint and thinner for the washes is not the wisest.  I will now make an exception from my "No AI rule" and post an exchange I had with ChatGPT on the matter. I would love to hear if anyone have opinions on the validity of ChatGTP´s wisdom. Here goes:

Q: Is it generally agreed that acrylics like Tamiya XF series diluted with isopropanol (X20A) is a poor choice for general washes?

A: Yes—it is generally agreed that Tamiya X/XF acrylics thinned with X-20A or isopropanol are a poor choice for a conventional general wash, though they can be useful for certain deliberately harsh effects.

The reasons are:

They dry too quickly. Alcohol evaporates rapidly, giving little time to distribute, soften or remove the wash.
They produce tide marks. Pigment tends to accumulate at the perimeter of each wet area.
They do not flow particularly well by capillary action, especially across matt paint.
They stain immediately. On a matt surface, the wash can become almost impossible to correct.
X-20A can attack a Tamiya X/XF base coat. Fully cured Tamiya acrylic is more resistant, but alcohol and mechanical brushing can soften or lift it.
XF paints contain enough pigment and matting agent to become chalky or grainy when enormously diluted.
Because the wash and base coat use essentially the same solvent system, there is little chemical separation between the layers.

Consequently, the standard safer combination is:

Durable acrylic or lacquer base coat → oil or enamel wash thinned with mild odorless mineral spirit.

Oil washes stay workable much longer, flow better and can be feathered or removed after application.

When diluted Tamiya XF can nevertheless work

It can be useful when you actually want the pigment to grab and stain:

accumulated dust
dried mud
soot
faded or bleached surfaces
dirty workshop floors
rough, porous timber
broad tonal modulation

In that case, I would not use pure X-20A or isopropanol. A more controllable acrylic wash can be made with:

Tamiya XF paint
mostly distilled water
a little X-20A
a drop of acrylic retarder or flow improver

Even then, Tamiya XF is not ideal because it was formulated primarily as paint, not as an extremely dilute wash. Purpose-made water-based acrylic washes—Vallejo, Citadel or similar—usually behave better, although they still cannot be reworked as easily as oils.

So your previous mixture of three drops German Grey, one drop XF-64 and 1 ml X-20A will certainly create dirt and shadow, but it behaves more like a rapid staining filter than a forgiving wash. It is particularly risky over another Tamiya X/XF layer. For controlled grime around machinery and underframes, I would replace it with the same approximate colour mixed from raw umber and ivory black oil paint in AK Odorless Thinner.

Q: That corresponds well with my own experiences with this mix. But I am actually looking for the filter effect, so I might try using distilled water. Is the isopropanol alchol used for wetting purposes?

A: Yes—partly. Isopropanol lowers the surface tension of water, so the mixture wets the painted surface instead of forming beads. But with Tamiya X/XF paint it also acts as a solvent for the acrylic resin, and it speeds evaporation. X-20A is not simply pure isopropanol; it contains a balanced solvent mixture intended to keep Tamiya's binder and pigment dispersed.

For a filter, replacing most of the X-20A with distilled water should give you:

slower drying
more working time
less attack on the base coat
softer staining
but potentially poorer wetting and more pigment separation

I would test something like:

3 drops XF German Grey
1 drop XF-64 Red Brown
0.8–1 ml distilled water
1–2 drops X-20A
optionally, a minute amount of acrylic flow improver or retarder

The X-20A then primarily helps the water wet the surface and keeps the Tamiya paint dispersed, without making the entire mixture strongly alcohol-based.

Do not substitute dishwashing liquid unless testing on scrap first. Even a tiny excess can make the wash foam, behave unpredictably or leave surfactant residue. A proper acrylic flow improver—Vallejo, Liquitex or Winsor & Newton—is preferable. It must also be used sparingly, normally after dilution according to its instructions.

One potential problem is insufficient binder. At extreme dilution, the small quantity of binder can no longer secure all the pigment. The filter may dry dusty or rub off. A drop or two of clear acrylic medium can help:

Tamiya paint + distilled water + a little X-20A/flow improver + a small amount of clear acrylic medium.

For your intended effect, however, some staining is desirable. I would apply it with a broad, soft, slightly loaded brush, keep a wet edge and cover an entire logically bounded surface—one wall panel, machine casing or wagon side—rather than brushing isolated patches. Avoid repeatedly brushing areas that have begun to dry; that is what produces hard edges and lifts partially dried pigment.

The safest sequence is:

Apply one extremely weak filter.
Let it dry completely.
Judge the colour only after drying—it will usually appear lighter.
Add another filter if necessary.

So yes: retain a little alcohol/X-20A for wetting and paint compatibility, but distilled water should constitute most of the liquid if you want a gentler, slower acrylic filter. A test piece is essential because the exact behaviour will depend strongly on whether your underlying surface is matt, satin or gloss.
--End of AI conversation

I must admit that the AI answer seems very well founded, but some human input would be nice!