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General Category => General Forums => Topic started by: DaKra on April 11, 2010, 04:23:45 PM

Title: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on April 11, 2010, 04:23:45 PM
Hi, can anyone help me out with a scale drawing of a gas pump, circa 1940s 50s?  Or some general measurements?   Something like this one:

http://www.shedrives.com/images/GasPump.jpg

Thanks!
Dave
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: mobilgas on April 11, 2010, 07:53:48 PM
Dave,  My book i have does not give measurements its just a Illustrated Guide and price and Identification Guide.   The one in your picture is a Gilbarco G & B 98  Year 1938 computing pump with sight glass in face.    Craig
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Frederic Testard on April 12, 2010, 03:32:27 AM
Now, if someone could give a hint about the size of the pumpkins, it would be easy to derive that of the pump...

(OK, I know the way to the always crowded corner...).
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Belg on April 12, 2010, 04:18:32 AM
Here's a link to a restoration site that has dimensions. Pat

http://www.gameroomantiques.com/GasPump.htm
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Frederic Testard on April 12, 2010, 06:08:10 AM
Great find, Pat. Thanks!
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on April 12, 2010, 07:35:31 AM
Thanks, Pat, that will work.  :)

Dave

Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: mobilgas on April 12, 2010, 07:36:16 AM
  Pat........I been to the gameroom site before, and never paid attention that they gave measurements on the Pumps. ::) blind in one eye and cant see out of the other                                                              seems like more people are getting interested in these old pieces of iron. Hope to see someone modeling a few.     Craig
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Belg on April 13, 2010, 07:40:01 PM
glad to help out guys, Pat
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on April 14, 2010, 06:47:39 PM
Here's a test shot of my HO pump concept, the globe and sign board light up.    Yeah needs a logo, have to figure that out.  Probably will need to source a decal.   Any ideas?

Dave 

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2FPumpTest.jpg&hash=e7bed5f50bf8214e984a97071a48ff7eeb623ee7)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2FPumpTest2.jpg&hash=2d3948a758e34a9effe7ef924420d78f13fbfd54)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2FPumpTest1.jpg&hash=3448a1d41722e0aeb1e5cee0d5f0d03556145651)
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: finescalerr on April 14, 2010, 07:33:22 PM
Yeah. My idea is for you to offer the pumps, along with your other stuff, in multiple scales. Why let the HO guys have all the fun?

Aside from the dry humor, there may be a business advantage: Western Scale Models recently dumped all but the 1:20.3 (and maybe 1:48) items in their line because the profit margin was so much better with the big stuff. Something to think about.

Russ
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on April 15, 2010, 07:27:19 AM
OK I found the decal sheets, MicroScale makes them.   

@Russ -- like Dirty Harry said,  a man's gotta know his limitations!

Dave
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: mabloodhound on April 15, 2010, 07:47:21 AM
Here's one for free

Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on April 15, 2010, 04:46:50 PM
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2FPumpTest4.jpg&hash=0795b6e4d94b891bca6cac74030f8f2d101ce4d3)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2FPumpTest5.jpg&hash=11e30ca94412ca3aea66cec59dbb89ac83057a6e)

Quick test with home brew decal.   This is just a prototype, so its a little rough.     
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Frederic Testard on April 15, 2010, 05:03:08 PM
I like it. And I don't see what limitations could prevent you to make such a model in bigger scales.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 15, 2010, 10:17:01 PM
Very nice, especially considering the small scale!
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Chuck Doan on April 16, 2010, 06:52:30 AM
Those would look great in a night scene!
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 23, 2010, 02:53:20 PM
Project resurrected due to an "aha" moment that gave me an idea I wanted to try.  On the previous version, I wasn't happy with the uneven light spread inside the globe, and the clear frosted "glass" of the globe.  On the originals, the globe is milk glass brightly and evenly lit inside.  Something very difficult to do in 1/87 scale, as I found out!

Also the meter face should be slightly recessed, and lit from the front top.  Previous version was flush with the front and back lit.  Not a lot of room in there, but I figured out a way to focus and bounce the light around to where I needed it. The globe is lopsided, because I yanked it from its mold too quickly, also still needs decal, nozzle, etc.  Just a test shot so far!

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2Ftexpump1.jpg&hash=0355e3b6c1950126d5589ec140db22503f7f0c49)
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 23, 2010, 05:50:30 PM
Very cool.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: finescalerr on October 24, 2010, 01:24:40 AM
Substantial improvement. -- Russ
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Hector Bell on October 24, 2010, 02:29:47 AM
I always wondered who made those pumps.  We had exactly the same pattern over here.  In fact there's one, to this day, in my old village and although I took measurements an age ago, I've lost them, so I could go back and measure it for you, me and posterity.
I did a/w for a p/e face and front panel in British O scale, but never got round to making it.  However I do need one for my little Lantern Yard dio.  Gotta fill the canal boats somehow!

I learned technical illustration from a guy who worked for Gilbarco, in fact he actually learned HIS skills with them.  Must be an English division at work somewhere.

If I can get my daughter to lend me her car and camera, I'll pop down to Nordelph and take some shots of Old Man Simpson's garage remains for us.

Martin
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 24, 2010, 05:34:17 AM
Please do, Martin.  We like old garages and gas pumps!   

I've been experimenting with miniature lighting special effects for a couple of years now, its difficult because, unlike oil paints or styrene, you are dealing with strict sets of limitations.  And those are in addition to the strict limitations set by 1/87 scale.   Like Scotty said on Star Trek, I can't change the laws of physics.   

Plus there isn't much information, or respectable aftermarket parts.   The science fiction guys have done some very nice work, but most of their applications don't translate well to civilian real world prototypes. 

That's my thumb again in the photo, lower left.  This sign will hang over a storefront.

Dave
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Hector Bell on October 24, 2010, 05:56:03 AM
I'll see what I can do.  I have the car this afternoon, so, as long as Norfolk County Council, who shut roads at the drop of a hat for resurfacing, will let me through to the High Street, I can get some pics for us.
Assuming the local laddos haven't trashed it.  It's a good few years since I last was there, even though it's only two miles down the road!

More anon.

I like that sign.  It can't be easy lighting one up especially in tiny HO scale.

Martin
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Malachi Constant on October 24, 2010, 02:13:06 PM
Good grief!  And keep 'em coming ... amazing touches on those tiny little projects.

Cheers,
Dallas
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Hector Bell on October 24, 2010, 02:24:41 PM
Well, I popped down to the old garage and the pump is still there in one piece, so I'm going to go down tomorrow with a camera and take a few measurements too.
It's all gummed up with brambles since I left the village.  Even the church has gone!  Every last Arts and Crafts period brick, cleared.
In these parts soil subsidence is critical and the poor wee church started to fall in two and became too dangerous.  Someone got some lovely woodwork out of that!

Martin
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 24, 2010, 09:12:16 PM
How'd you do the sign? Looks like maybe, laser-etched the lettering out of clear plastic with black paint on top?

Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 25, 2010, 05:30:23 AM
Ray, the neon sign is made in several layers, the top layer of tubes is clear plastic as you described.  But under that is a red and white decal, for the painted sign, because it must also look correct in daylight.   Its a complicated design problem.  Hope to have a working demo with me at CSS10, but I've got revenue items to prepare that are a higher priority!

Dave
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Philip Smith on October 25, 2010, 05:54:45 AM
Dave,

Stand in the corner, your to good! ;D

inbedding LED's in resin, Yes?

philip
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 25, 2010, 06:30:32 AM
hey Phillip, yeah I started adding resin into the mix recently, it makes a big difference because now I can cut the shape in whatever material works best for the laser, then make a clear part out of it.   Aside from Acrylic, many clear plastics don't cut well at all, they melt and burn, so they are off the table.   Also when the LED is embedded, it keeps everything compact.   

The Nolan's sign is back lit, but the next generation and ultimate goal is  a sign that hangs over the sidewalk, so everything must be self contained in a very thin wafer.  Unfortunately EL sheet is not bright enough so I have to do it with small LEDs.    Some LEDs are the size of a grain of sand, just about the correct size for an HO scale light bulb.  Incredible, but very difficult to work with.       

Dave
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Mobilgas on October 25, 2010, 08:25:00 AM
Dave,   I like the light up sign ;) interested in more info on how your using the small LED'S.  Messed around with trying to add some neon to a gas sign i started  long time ago.....but i was using clear fiber optic .....heating and bending to get the shape i wanted plus had to make 2 so they had to match .....was trying to get the look of gas dripping out of the gas pump nozzle ::) Oh well thats as far as i got :(    Craig
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 25, 2010, 08:39:21 AM
Hi Craig,

That's a neat idea for a sign, nice to know other people are interested in scale neon.    I hope you will resume work on the station and post your progress.

Fiber optics have their uses, but very limited.  The problem is they channel light, and only emit it at one end.  If you rough them up to cast light out, they don't emit an even glow like neon tube, they rapidly dim down as distance from the source increases. 

What you need for your sign is EL wire.  Its basically a strand of wire that lights up just like a neon tube.   The finest diameter is a little too thick for HO scale, but would be perfect for your scale.   Actually, EL wire is one of the reasons why I'm considering working in a bigger scale.  You can find this stuff online. 

Everything I know about micro LEDs and small scale soldering I learned from my friend Bill Sartore (Slim Jerkins on the forums).   He's developing a website (microlumina.com) and I believe a DVD or written tutorial on the subject of miniature lighting. 

Dave
 
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 25, 2010, 09:59:21 AM
http://www.thatscoolwire.com/store/subcategory.asp?SubCategoryID=118

Here is where I got mine, minimum diameter .9mm.   Perfect for O scale and up.   Some other interesting stuff there. 
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: NE Brownstone on October 25, 2010, 12:19:02 PM
Chalk up another cool product for Dave.  I remember when My dad and i were talking about the new metal cutting laser we got at work in the early 90's.  He mentioned that when the laser was first created(he was a physicist) he said he never thought it would amount to much more than a toy.   He then told me he was wrong. 

Every time I see one of Dave's  newest offerings I always remember that day and what he said.  Bet he never thought they'd make bagels too.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 25, 2010, 06:38:26 PM
I guess the first lasers your dad saw were similar to laser pointers, like you can buy at CVS for $8, so I can see how he'd be unimpressed.    Actually, the laser is starting to seem a little toy-like again, after all this discussion about the potential of 3d printers.  The day will come when kits and a million other things are just downloaded off the web and pop out of your 3d printer, in full color, like magic.   :o
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: NE Brownstone on October 26, 2010, 07:31:35 AM
Quote from: DaKra on October 25, 2010, 06:38:26 PM
I guess the first lasers your dad saw were similar to laser pointers, like you can buy at CVS for $8, so I can see how he'd be unimpressed.    Actually, the laser is starting to seem a little toy-like again, after all this discussion about the potential of 3d printers.  The day will come when kits and a million other things are just downloaded off the web and pop out of your 3d printer, in full color, like magic.   :o

Maybe, except the pointer probably wouldn't have even fit in a suitcase.   

I'm just wondering if it will ever replicate a good martini? ;)
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: finescalerr on October 26, 2010, 12:49:23 PM
Russ, go stand in the corner. -- ssuR
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: NE Brownstone on October 26, 2010, 05:35:10 PM
Yes Sirrrrr :(
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 27, 2010, 05:44:41 PM
Trust your HO scale car to the man who wears the star!   :)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2FPumpDone2.jpg&hash=76c702eb8725c1cd86b7e8c7f86117c70176429f)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2FPumpDone.jpg&hash=b89a92bb554f4d5ed786eaced54532100fa2d91a)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2FPumpDone3.jpg&hash=e9cec16ceb7a6e41b155d5e6d234505230cdcd03)
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Don Railton on October 27, 2010, 06:26:04 PM
Dave - Super job on the pumps.  As small as the graphics are they seem to be very clear. 

I look forward to stopping by your table at CSS.

Don
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: finescalerr on October 27, 2010, 07:38:16 PM
Outrageously impressive. Who would guess it's HO? -- Russ
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 27, 2010, 07:58:09 PM
Incredible -- those would be impressive in G scale. In HO, much more so.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 28, 2010, 05:51:52 AM
The home-brew decals came out pretty sharp.   The color graphics I printed on clear and white decal films using a inkjet printer set to photo mode.  The black and white graphics are printed on regular paper with a laser printer.   All the graphics were drawn in Illustrator, except the Fire Chief sign, which is a photo downloaded from the web.

I think a traditional silk screen decal might not have been sharp enough, as they tend to show the pattern of the screen at this magnification.  The white decals had to be doubled, because the film wasn't opaque enough.   The decal film needs to be thoroughly sprayed with varnish, two coats, before using them otherwise they bleed and stretch when wet.

Russ, thank you for the promotion!  I was only hoping for an "adequate."   :)

Dave
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Chuck Doan on October 28, 2010, 07:09:04 AM
Very impressive indeed! I like those a lot. You should consider a silver Sky Chief version too.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Malachi Constant on October 28, 2010, 03:00:00 PM
Dave --

In addition to all the excellent decorative details and lighting, you've done an outstanding job of fitting the hoses so they drape realistically.

Cheers,
Dallas
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on October 29, 2010, 06:27:15 AM
Thanks!   :)

I was going to make a Sky Chief version but wasn't sure what year those date back to, and my dioramas are all set around 1935-45, for consistency.   I really need to get a good reference book on Petrolina, or spend a lot of time lurking on the collector forums!

On the hoses, they are brass wire, chemically blackened.   I got a few spools of various diameters at the craft store maybe 20 years ago, cost pennies, very useful, constantly use them for things, still plenty left!   

Dave
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Ken Hamilton on October 29, 2010, 06:46:40 AM
Wow, Dave......these are just knock-down, drag-out KOOL!
You're impressing the beejeebers out of us with all this wonderful new stuff, and you better
bring an armored truck to CSS to carry home all the cash we'll be dumping on your table.
I've already arranged for a bank loan............
See you there. Can't wait to see this stuff in person.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Chuck Doan on October 29, 2010, 06:53:40 AM
Sky Chief came out in 1938 so says the internet.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: TRAINS1941 on October 29, 2010, 07:02:07 AM
Dave

Very impressive.  Looking forward to seeing your work in person at CSS.  You'll be easy to find your going to be the real busy table.

Jerry
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: DaKra on March 27, 2011, 06:13:43 AM
http://thefiberopticstore.com/Projects/HO-TexacoPump/index.htm

Made the big time ... ok, not really.  But big enough to score some free samples from Paul at the Fiber Optic Store.  ;D 

Dave
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Frederic Testard on March 27, 2011, 06:19:06 AM
You might even consider being proud of it, Dave.  !!!
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Ken Hamilton on March 27, 2011, 07:29:40 AM
Kool!  Those pumps deserve that kind of recognition. 
Congratulations, Dave.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: eTraxx on March 27, 2011, 07:38:57 AM
That's cool .. and congratulations. It doesn't hurt to lead people to your website either I suppose! :)
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Malachi Constant on March 27, 2011, 10:12:05 AM
Really cool stuff and nice presentation!  -- Dallas
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Ray Dunakin on March 27, 2011, 10:16:46 AM
Congrats! Those tiny, lighted pumps are amazing.
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: finescalerr on March 27, 2011, 12:35:32 PM
Seems to me we offered superlatives about those pumps a few months ago.

If you ask me, and you didn't, Dave should spend more time at the computer and the laser creating more amazing stuff -- in HO, O, and 1:32/35. He has far too much to "say" but not enough time to "say" it. (Dave, do you really need to earn a living?)

Russ
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: Frederic Testard on March 27, 2011, 02:08:49 PM
Russ, your comment about our recurrent enthusiasm reminds me of an interesting sentence, by French critic and novelist Julien Gracq.
In French : "S'il pleut, dites il pleut. Même pour une seconde averse".
Which should translate : "If it's raining, say it's raining. Even if it is the second shower".
Title: Re: Old Gas Pump Drawings or Measurements
Post by: finescalerr on March 28, 2011, 01:17:25 AM
A much more elegant translation than I could have made, Frederic. But I haven't spoken French since 1969 (when I was approaching fluency) or translated it since 1971! I can't believe how ignorant I have become. -- Russ