Dear Modeling friends,
I'm a beginner and know about as little as anyone can when it comes to modeling. I am having fun though, I'm working on my first building! Plenty of mistakes but that means plenty of lessons learned. If someone has a moment to reply to this very basic inquiry I would greatly appreciate it.
What glues do you recommend for wood? I'm using Elmore's Wood Glue but get really frustrated with the drying time. Is there a faster drying glue that is just as strong?
Also, is there a place for beginners to post images for feedback?
Thanks for your patience and expertise.
Carey Morgan
Welcome to the forum Carey.
Feel free to ask whatever you want...nothing is a "stupid question".
I personally use the yellow Elmers "Carpenters Glue" the 'interior' type....they also have an 'exterior' type, but that is more of a beige/greyish color. I have never found any issues with drying time with this. Generally does the initial set in 5 mins, and fully cured in probably an hour or less. Dry time and bond quality though have a lot to do with the amount of glue you are using, and how you are applying it. More is not always better. On say framing or siding I tend to use very small dabs applied with a sharpened toothpick, or for longer joints seams, also using the toothpick, I apply a very small thin line of glue the length of the joint. All joints bonds are always weighted to create a firm bond, and I always make sure that I never apply so much glue that it seeps out from the joint. (often times this is mitigated by lighty smoothing out or thinly spreading the dab to cover more of the joint surface area.
One thing to be aware of. If you are building a wooden structure and using a water soluble glue, it is advisable to stain your wood pieces prior to assebly, otherwise you stand a good chance of the joint de-bonding if you stain after assembly.
To post images, just start a thread in the appropriate category/section....or if you don't know where, the "General Forum" is always a good default.......then give this forum thread a read, http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=3.0 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=3.0) as it will explain step-by step, the two methods you can use for uploading images. Try to make sure your images do not exceed 800 pix in max dimension if linking from a site, as this can cause undue load time for non-dsl/cable users, and it also forces readers to scroll sideways...which is annoying. If you are ussing the "additional options" choice to attach photos, you will be limited to 200kb per post upload (be that from 1 image, or a combination of multipiple images).
HTH.
Marc
Welcome to the forum Carey. As Marc says, ask away... nothing here is a stupid question. Everybody learns from the questions and answers here (perhaps not what was intended, but nevertheless... ;)). For information on glues, check out the blog article a Sticky Subject (http://roughboy.net/?p=1048)...
Paul
Welcome!
I use yellow wood glue all the time.
I use tooth picks to apply it.
I have found that an hour under the weights or clamps and I can carefully work with the assembled parts.
Marty
I also use yellow carpenter's glue, applied with a round double pointed toothpick. Any squeeze out can be removed quickly with a dampened toothpick before it sets.
-Younger
Me too (all of the above).
Wow! Thanks for the feedback. I've been clamping for a minimum of 6 hours and often overnight. I'll try working with the pieces after just an hour, that'll speed things up.
This is an amazing site. The work on display here is inspiring and the free advice is wonderful.
Thanks again,
Carey
I use white glue or yellow glue (whatever is handy), Walthers Goo, and even CA depending on the kind of joint and how soon I need to work with it. -- Russ
Also, if you are not already aware of this, if you assemble raw lumber with Elmers or similar, the glue will form a barrier that cannot be stained. So if the glue oozes out of any joints you will get bare spots.
Best to stain all parts before assembly.
Tom
Welcome aboard!
Good to have you with us.
Yellow or white glue they both work just fine.
Jerry
Thanks again for the advice. As I mentioned in the original question this is my first structure. I've already glued most of it together and unfortunately, I have not stained or painted the structure and I know there is some glue that has seeped out of the joints. Lesson learned.
On another note, I also wanted to know if there is an ethical problem with my structure. I'm building it from a photo. I got this photo from a well know manufacturer of g-scale buildings. I have made some minor modifications. At the time I started the building it was just an exercise to deal with stress of work, sort of therapy. It never dawned on me that I was stealing someone else's design.
Any rules of the road here?
Thanks again,
Carey
As long as you dont sell it your cool.
But on a similar note the whole point of scratchbuilding is having something unique or not available in your particular scale.
-Marty
Over the years I've read about many modelers who have used a manufactured kit as an idea for scratchbuilding. You just can't make money from it. So have fun with no-guilt modeling.
I use CA for many things including wood. The thicker CA is needed for wood joints because capillary action soaks thin CA into the grain. But the good ol' yellow Elmer's works well enough. Even with this you may need to pre-apply a bit to the end grain and let it set up some.
John
Just a few additions to what's been said. If you know a joint will be exposed to moisture, use an exterior grade wood glue. I use Titebond exterior and have literally soaked assembled pieces without glue joint failure. Another note is that many wood glues come formulated for use with darker hardwoods and will dry a dark color. Often a sufficient darkness, not to be noticed if staining after assembly is necessary/desired. Lastly, when building furniture or modeling, if glue seeps out of a joint on the surface that will be seen, a wipe with a damp cloth will usually remove enough not to be noticeable through the stain in the finished product. And as has been mentioned, clamping and/or weighting is advisable for a stronger joint.
Use the old model airplane building trick. Use the yellow glue and then put a small dab of CA on the same joint. The CA will hold the parts while the yellow glue dries. On model airplane frames, we would stick them together with CA then you could take them off the board and brush yellow glue around the joint. That allows access all the way around the joint. On bigger pieces, we would put yellow glue between the parts, then put a tiny dab of CA outside to hold them.
John
I'm suprised nobody mentioned Pacer Formula 560 Canopy Glue. This is my favorite for bonding wood and paper products, as well as clear plastic. It's doesn't dry nearly as fast as CA, but it's by far faster than any other white glue I've tried.
David
Call me old fashioned, but I LOVE Walthers Goo.......
Yellow glue (for wood) comes in second, followed by Testors liquid for styrene and CA for everything else.
For tricky applications, I'll tack the pieces in place with Goo and seal the deal with a drop of CA.
Works like a charm.
Ken, I'm with you on that. I've been using Goo ever since the '80s and have learned to appreciate its qualities above most others. It is usually my first choice even though many people think I'm nuts. For paper model construction it's all but a necessity. -- Russ
I usually Titebond or Titebond II for outdoor projects. I have also used Testor's wood glue with good results. It sets quite fast and won't glue your fingers like CA.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hobbymasters.com%2FProductImages%2Fbuildingsupplies%2Fglues%2FThumb_tesr1505.JPG&hash=d7ed3008cbbd69418b99d763d69551481df9fc93)
-Brian
Particularly when gluing two dissimilar materials like wood to metal or metal to plastic, and on larger surfaces, a decent 5 min. epoxy has always been among my top choices.
Russ, GOO glue smells good too like the olden days of modeling. CA, especially when I flow a big fillet, is acrid and no fun at all.
If the smell of CA is a problem for you I recommend you try foam safe CA. I discovered last year that I had developed an allergy to CA fumes. Nothing too serious, just my eyes would water pretty bad and my nose would run. Soon after I switched to foam safe CA and have had no noticible allergic reactions since. I use the generic stuff, (hobby shop label) labeled as "Super Gold+" 100% foam safe and odorless. That stuff also works with the regular accelerator and seems to be just as strong as regular CA. I tried Zap's version of foam safe which was much more expensive and requires a special accelerator and was very disappointed, didn't work very well at all.
David
All I use is CA for everything but styrene to styrene. I mostly use the super thin 1-3 sec. and on some things the extra thick 10-25 sec.
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Dave from Ozark sent me some of that new glue he is advertising to try. So far I found it is strong, clear and dries fairly rapidly. It tends to be a little rubbery even after drying so doesn't sand well. That does mean it should take shock well. It tends to be a little stringy when you try to put it on with a toothpick in tight areas. It really does remind me of the old DUCO that I loved in my early model airplane days (daze). It is faster drying though. I've just started trying different materials and it worked well on wood but not on polycarbonate.
John