Figured since I've stopped lurking and started posting, I should introduce myself and show a little of what I do in 1/87. This is my scratch built rendition of a NYC scene, as photographed in 1937. It is all scratch built, mostly using a laser with graphics I generate in Adobe illustrator. Besides general understanding of brick dimensions and the like, the only reference I used was the photo.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vectorcut.com%2Fimages%2Fstanton%2Fbwnight2.jpg&hash=87e5e96cbea2cdf3a0794400ce16b45aa5f304e4)
More here: http://www.vectorcut.com/Diorama (http://www.vectorcut.com/Diorama)
Dave
Very nice!
Nicely done Dave... has a very believable NYC Noir quality to it. Thanks for posting the photo and the link.
Paul
Nice. I like this. The buildings, their character, scale and composition are all realistic and plausible.
M
Quote from: DaKra on November 18, 2009, 05:08:26 PM
Figured since I've stopped lurking and started posting, I should introduce myself and show a little of what I do in 1/87. This is my scratch built rendition of a NYC scene, as photographed in 1937. It is all scratch built, mostly using a laser with graphics I generate in Adobe illustrator. Besides general understanding of brick dimensions and the like, the only reference I used was the photo.
Very nice! A wonderful understated and sublime scene. Putting figures in the scene would really spoil the effect.
I would love to hear more about your modelling techniques.
Regards, Håvard H
Great. The model scene shows the atmosphere of the photo very well.
I like it.
Jacq
HO scale, huh? Not inadequate. Please tell how you created the brick and other textures. -- Russ
Havard,
QuotePutting figures in the scene would really spoil the effect.
True. If figures are used, make it plausible.
Jacq
Thanks for the positive feedback; I wasn't quite sure what to expect here. "Not inadequate" on this forum is quite the endorsement. :D
Agreed, figures are a bit risky. They can bring life to the diorama, or kill it. Even well made ones can make a diorama static, when viewed in person, not so much an issue in a photograph. For Stanton Street, a friend suggested a fellow walking away from the camera, hands stuffed in his trenchcoat pockets, film noir style. Might be a nice touch for the night scene, maybe for next diorama I will do that.
Dave
PS here's a scene from an earlier diorama, I modified Preiser figures and I think they worked really well this time.
I can recognise Russ peering around the corner , but who is the other chap in the overalls ?
Nick
That's Marc. At least we are appreciating one of the finest things in life rather than the well done peeling paint on the structure. -- Russ
Very nice! Great atmosphere.
very cool Dave!
Mike
Quote from: finescalerr on November 19, 2009, 11:23:15 AM
That's Marc. At least we are appreciating one of the finest things in life rather than the well done peeling paint on the structure. -- Russ
What ? The old dog ?
Nick
Quote from: shropshire lad on November 19, 2009, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: finescalerr on November 19, 2009, 11:23:15 AM
That's Marc. At least we are appreciating one of the finest things in life rather than the well done peeling paint on the structure. -- Russ
What ? The old dog ?
Nick
Must be Nick... you can't see a thong from here.... ;)
Nicely done again Dave... the story line is just subtle enough. I do prefer the Stanton St. piece though. It's truly evocative...
Paul
After visiting your website, I am even more impressed! This is some great modelling. I like that elevator? thing in the sidewalk. The brick looks great too.
To me, you can't beat something based or copied directly from the real thing.
We met at CSS. I can assure the rest of the guys that although it looks good, the photo doesn't do your work justice. I saw the buildings live at and HO kits don't get any better. The "not perfect" brickwork (just like the real world) made all the difference. I am also a fan of super detail (bathroom visible through a side window).
I look forward to seeing a new creation next year.
Regards, Don
I have always liked your builds Dave, nice to see you sharing here.
Love the NYC shot, much emotion.
Thanks again everyone. This is a notoriously tough audience, so the reaction has been gratifying and motivating. I'm looking forward to getting back to work on the next NYC diorama and trying to do better. Looking at the photos I realize I was a little soft on the weathering, especially the middle building. I got scared and backed off with the chalks and oil washes before it was done. Next time I'll be more aggressive.
Chuck, those trap door covers are still a common sidewalk feature. As a kid, I remember jumping on them to make a horrific BANG, then being chased off by the shopkeeper. Probably just cement stairs underneath an oldie like that, though many have electric elevators.
Agreed on working from 1/1 prototypes. The little details that often go unnoticed in the 1/1 world because they are so common or plain or unimportant somehow make a bigger impact in miniature. A good portion of the details in the photo, such as the cat door in the middle building, just didn't register in my mind until I started building the model. Its as if there is another dimension you can only see when you have your model builder / artist goggles on.
Don, glad to hear from you again. Enjoyed chatting with you and comparing notes at the show and nice to see you here! Hope you'll post some detail views of your abandoned shed and other work. Didn't bring my camera to the show and regret it.
Dave
Quote from: DaKra on November 21, 2009, 08:19:32 AM
Agreed on working from 1/1 prototypes. The little details that often go unnoticed in the 1/1 world because they are so common or plain or unimportant somehow make a bigger impact in miniature. A good portion of the details in the photo, such as the cat door in the middle building, just didn't register in my mind until I started building the model. Its as if there is another dimension you can only see when you have your model builder / artist goggles on.
That's what I've found too. The most difficult thing about doing freelanced models is trying to "think up" all the small, often odd, little details that might be found on a real building.
Hi Russ, saw your reminder about the surface textures over in Marc's thread, which I didn't want to hijack. The bricks, cobblestones and stucco are all laser engraved using vector graphics. As was discussed on other forums, laser engraving brick tends to produce "computery" results, the main problem being the graphic software's strong tendency towards perfection in lines, alignment, duplication, etc. So in order to produce a realistic result, the graphics need to be adjusted by eye to compensate. Enough to be perceptable, but not so much as to look cartoony. Time consuming, but further proof that even with high tech, its the man, not the tool, that matters more.
Dave
That's what I was hoping you would answer. So now my follow-up questions:
Are you able to make changes to the surface of individual bricks, as in making some a little higher (seemingly impossible) and others a little lower?
Is it a very expensive process given all the cuts the laser must make? I was told brick sheets would be too time intensive to produce by another laser guy, and thus would sell for too high a price.
Have you tried bricks and stones in 1:48 or 1:32 scales? If so, with what results?
Now aren't you sorry you answered?
Russ
Dave, are these brick pieces something you will be producing in the future as I don't see them listed on your site? The side joint is a good idea, I think if the color matched just a little better it would be hidden even more. Pat
Hey Russ
Ask away, I love talking shop.
Actually the rough side bricks are engraved as you describe, some higher and lower than average, as are the cobblestones. Unfortunately the effect was lost in my photos. I use the 3D option in the laser driver, a great feature that is seriously underutilized by laser operators.
Speed is an open ended question. Its a function of material, power and how well the machine's precision stands up at higher speeds.
It can be a problem but I've come up with some practical solutions to manufacture brick structure kits. The first one is almost ready for market.
I've not yet tried any architectural subjects larger than 1/87.
Dave
Hey Belg
The model's wall parts do not join at the "sawtooth" pattern. They actually join on the corner, but the seam is invisible. ;) Here is a picture of another brick corner in the diorama as a clearer example. All will be revealed when kit #1 goes on the market.
The "sawtooth" and color variation on the side of Stanton #328 deliberately replicates a typical corner where a higher quality front facade brick interfaces with the lower quality brick used on the alley sides. There are several different brick patterns in the diorama.
Dave
Hey Dave, I was totally fooled by that. I think its something you should let people know so they don't make the same assumption I did. To think its a bad joint.
Looking forward to your first set of brick products. Thanks Pat
The photos on your website suggest varying brick levels; that's why I asked. But the fact that you have high, average, and low bricks is stunning, especially in HO. I look forward to seeing your first official release. -- Russ
Quote from: DaKra on November 24, 2009, 03:29:15 PM
Ask away, I love talking shop.
Ok, here is another.
I took a look at the ship decks in wood that you offer for sale.
What struck me was that the engraved lines between the planks seemed to be entirely free from burn marks.
What I usually find annoying with laserengraved siding are those dark brownish-blackish lines beteween the boards.
Your scribed deck look like they could be stained with great results, and I feel that laser-cut structures would make a quantum-leap forward if those burn marks could be avoided.
So how did you do those decks?
Regards, Håvard H
Hi Hauk
That's sort of a tough question, because I never really had a problem with scortching, so I never had to develop a technique to avoid it. Generally I use the lowest power to highest speed ratio, mostly as a matter of efficiency.
If you have a particular idea for a laser engraved wood structure, I'd be interested to know more. Send me an PM or whatever.
Here's a photo of the HO scale rough side brick I engrave in 3D. Thats a US dime on the left for size comparison. The photo had to be cropped pretty tight to allow an upload here, but you get the idea.
Dave
fantastic achievement. Will this also become available as sheet material for scratch builders ?
Jacq
Quote from: DaKra on November 25, 2009, 07:49:16 AM
Hi Hauk
That's sort of a tough question, because I never really had a problem with scortching, so I never had to develop a technique to avoid it. Generally I use the lowest power to highest speed ratio, mostly as a matter of efficiency.
If you have a particular idea for a laser engraved wood structure, I'd be interested to know more. Send me an PM or whatever.
Here's a photo of the HO scale rough side brick I engrave in 3D. Thats a US dime on the left for size comparison. The photo had to be cropped pretty tight to allow an upload here, but you get the idea.
Dave
That brickwork is some of the best I have ever seen, regardless of scale and modelling medium!
And I have plenty of ideas for laser engraved buldings, but I am afraid they might be a bit exotic for you customer base!
A workshop /enginhouse/transformator building located in Thamshavn, Norway:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Ftb_naatid%2F091_thamshavn2.jpg&hash=ba74c25b20cad394560eebe5a64616a33e836b5f)
A smaller trafo building from the same electric railroad, Thamshavnbanen:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Ftb_naatid%2F013_loekken3.jpg&hash=8dbbedf0a82cbe36d059b051383ce79f451e0fc3)
I could go on and on....
I have a friend here in Norway that have helped me a lot with lasercutting parts. We havent discussed the possibility of 3D engraving, I dont lnow if his lasercutter has this option.
What file format do you use when using the 3D option, by the way?
Regards, Hauk
Europe is bit too far out for my line, Hauk. Though I've always liked German Fachwerk and may do one or two.
I use Adobe illustrator graphics on a PC for all my lasering.
Even without the special driver, 3D effect can be simulated with separate layers of engraving at different power settings. The laser performs much like a router, you can adjust it to cut at different depths. In 3D mode, the laser power is controlled by the greyscale on the graphic, so the job is done in a single layer.
Dave
Quote from: jacq01 on November 25, 2009, 08:49:54 AM
fantastic achievement. Will this also become available as sheet material for scratch builders ?
Jacq
Thanks Jacq. Yes, brick sheets are something I really have to do. Because if I only sell it as a kit part, its just a matter of time before its bootlegged by somebody who'll sell blurry castings made from it.
Dave
Quote from: DaKra on November 25, 2009, 11:14:34 AM
Europe is bit too far out for my line, Hauk. Though I've always liked German Fachwerk and may do one or two.
Yes, I would have been quite surprised if you started to manufacture kits of structures from along the Thamshavnbanen in Norway!
As far as I know, there are no others that models this railway.
The exception is two Dutch guys that model a freelance road in H0e, Orkhavnbanen, based on the Thmashavn railroad. There are by the way some pictures of this layout in another thread on this forum.
But back to you laser engraved brickwork, do you plan to offer brick sheets in 0 scale?
Regards, Hauk
Have to disappoint you there, too, Hauk. No plans for anything other than small detail parts in O scale.
Hypothetically, what if somebody asked you to produce an O scale brick structure or walls or street for use in a kit? Or if it were for just a one-off model? Would you do it? Would it the cost be prohibitive to the typical small business or hobbyist? -- Russ
Hi Russ.
Its more the dimensions of the finished piece that determine the amount of machine time necessary to complete a part, than the scale. O scale might require slightly deeper mortar lines, so possibly a bit slower per square inch, but not by much.
An O scale kit can be made economically. If laser engraving requires excessive machine time, go to casting from the lasered master. The walls can be a bit thicker in this scale so that disadvantage in HO is not as present in O.
Just two problems. 1) I have no experience doing commerical casting. 2) Beat up plastic hand-me-down, 3 rail Lionels scarred me for life. I have a slight aversion to O scale. :(
Dave
I used to have an aversion to O scale left over from my troubled childhood. And, at the age of four or five, I saw an HO around-the-walls shelf layout under construction and fell permanently in love with that scale. To me, it is the ideal compromise for modeling in virtually any space limitation. And I have about half a billion HO standard gauge locos, cars, and structures.
But HOn3 started me thinking. The structure size was okay but the rolling stock was just too small, even for a college student in his prime. A couple of decades later I realized the best scales for building impressive, in-your-face, detailed models were 1:32 and larger. I abandoned HOn3 forever and settled on 1:32 as the ultimate scale for industrial narrow gauge given my space limitations.
Then Bachmann came out with On30 and I started getting a lot of locomotive samples. Frankly, some were darned good. Within the first few years they produced a Porter, Shay, and Climax and, as far as I was concerned, I had everything I needed. So, in 1998 or thereabouts I built a small On30 switching diorama -- with an ore tipple, shack, water tank, and storage shed, handlaid track, the works. And that made me realize the positive attributes of 1:48 scale.
While I still favor 1:32 for narrow gauge industrial, 1:48 narrow gauge becomes analogous to HO standard gauge. At least to me. It is an excellent compromise.
You may find, someday, you wind up thinking along the same lines. One never know, do one?
Russ
I think many of us have preconceived notions of "O" scale based on the crude toy trains of our childhood. The easiest way to get past that is stop thinking of it as "O" Scale and think of it, correctly as it turns out in the US, as 1:48 scale or Proto 48.
Paul
Quote from: DaKra on November 27, 2009, 08:01:36 AM
3 rail Lionels scarred me for life. I have a slight aversion to O scale. :(
Dave
Dave,
Repeat after me..."It's not O-scale.....it's 1:48,....it's not O-scale.....it's 1:48.......". ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Marc
Dave, you have upped the ante for anybody producing kits with bricks. The multilevel detailing is very natural looking because it is not extreme and over pronounced. You sound casual about your technical mastery of your laser cutter but you either have: 1) an innate sense of the way the material and laser light interact via the machine software guided by a personally focused power of perception or 2) luckily stumbled upon some setting the first try that worked and you have not varied far from there.
I vote 1). This is excellent work in 1:87. I designed and sold an etched brass bridge in HO and found the textual appearance had much to do with the success of the model. You have that down pat, as well as understanding proportion and reality-based dimensioning. Your stuff just looks right. Even the piano on the website looks right.
Oh, and I am modeling in On30 now. It's just HO with a bit more waddle to the steamers. It's safe to come back.
John
Hi John
Many thanks for the compliments. I was just looking at the detail view of your bridge model on your website and thinking same about your work, especially the rivets. Those are tricky as they require uniformity in shape and placement that is difficult to achieve in miniature. Yours are precise and believable. Hope you'll start a thread explaining how you built that model.
As for mastery of the laser, again, thank you. I'm no longer surprised by people who believe operating a laser is just a matter of telling the computer what you want, like Captain Piquard ordering "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot" then a second later the product pops out. I'm also not surprised by Unibomber types who reject high tech in favor of sticks and mud then suggest that their way is superior. So it is very gratifying to hear from people who recognize the amount of operator input involved in achieving good output.
Glad you found this forum.
Dave