Ever since Adrian Garner wrote his articles on the American Magnesium monorail in the Jan/Feb. and Mar/April 2008 Gazettes, I have had a burr under my saddle to build one of the unique locomotives. Most of mine entrepreneur Thomas Wright's locomotives were built around Fordson tractors, and as I still have a 1/16th scale die-cast Fordson, it seems a natural thing to do. After reviewing the very few existing photos, I have decided to build one of the (supposedly) chain driven "second generation" locomotives, circa 1924. For now, I am modeling the loco in a 3D solid modeling program (Solidworks). If I can bring myself to do another die-cast makeover, I may build a "real-D" model. If I do that, I am hoping to maybe get some of the monorail parts "3D printed" from my solid models, which will save a lot of time.
The biggest problem is the lack of clear photos of the locos. Most pictures are of poor quality, and as all show loaded locomotives, the timbers for track repair and the bags of Epsom salts obscure important details. There are several of Thomas Wright's patent illustrations available, but while they show his mechanical concepts, there is no sure way to know which ideas he used, or how they were actually implemented. Apparently details differed from loco to loco (there were 4 second gen units) and undoubtedly a good deal of restless tinkering went on as well, as happens to many inventors. Thus there will be a need for a lot of creative interpretation and modelers' license. I hope to be able to use details of other Fordson loco designs to help fill in some of the basic DNA gaps, but I am on my own for most of it.
I have begun the locomotive frame and a section of the amazing wooden track. I am using the dual chain drive design outlined in one of the Wright patents. Next I have to begin figuring the couplers, the mounting of the cut-down 30 gal. sanders, brakes, and the balancing side rollers. I did a very elementary, but dimensionally correct solid model of the Danbury Mint Fordson to check mounting and clearances. I am planning the actual (static) model around this tractor, and the Delrin chain from Servo-link.
Mr. Wright's monorail was a wonderful, improbable and unique contraption. One of his locomotives would make a terrific large scale model. For me, time will tell if a real model gets built. Of course if I do, some new photos will come to light just after I finish it clearly showing how far off I was! But ain't that always the way?
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Here are photos from a modern day trip to the remains:
http://dzrtgrls.com/epsom_salts_mine_monorail/HiketotheEpsomSaltsMineand/index.html
A section of track:
http://dzrtgrls.com/epsom_salts_mine_monorail/HiketotheEpsomSaltsMineand/097.html
you have done already the most important work.............Together with the selection of materials you will use.
Why don't you put up questions for photo's and info in different fora and magazines.
Jacq
Jacq's right, Chuck. It looks like most of the heavy lifting is already done.
Your drawings seem feasible and the thing looks like it could really work.
Anyone else would knock this out in no-time. Fortunately for us, though, you'll
"Doan" the beejeebers out of this and give us something to look at for months.
Can't wait to see what you come up with.............
Chuck
Is this going to be called what I did on my "Winter Vacation"??
Yes you have already done the foot work, can't wait for the first pictures.
Jerry
Chuck, this would make into a cool model!! Were these used for mineing only?? Craig
Very cool project Chuck... I'm looking forward to watching this as it comes together. Nice renderings, btw...
Paul
That would be the perfect prototype for a "wow, thats something different!" project.
A 1/16 *working* model would be totally cool. Fitting a driving mechanism would be a challenge, but not impossible, me thinks. How big is a Fordson engine block in 1/16, by the way? Faulhaber motors are small & strong, and my first thought is that it might be possible to machine a hole in the block that a little Faulhaber would fit snugly inside. If you use an dual-axle motor you can make the fan spin as well!
Dont get me wrong, a static model in CD quality would be a joy to behold!
-Håvard H
Wooo...just incredible. Glad to see you tackle this. I know it's been gnawing at you for some time. ;)
I really look forward to your SBS....can you finish it by 2013? ;)
Nice 3D modeling BTW.....almost makes me want to drag out my 1/48 Mackenzie Fordson and build one.
M
Marc,
Quotecan you finish it by 2013?
of course, same as all the unfinished stuff you are putting on the contest tables to sweep the pot.
That is reason why I am coming to LA in 2013 ;D ;D ;D ;D.
This also gives plenty of time to plan the transport of the mill module. I started inquiring what is needed to have this module
with me as luggage as it weight is less than 30 lbs.
Jacq
Thanks, I am glad to at least be making the plan-Marc is right; this one has been bugging me. Craig, this was used to haul Magnesium salt. They piled sacks of it on the "running boards". The whole enterprise only lasted about 4 years.
Hauk, I am certain a rolling model could be built. The tractor is heavy and I think it would track well. There is no room inside the die cast body for a motor and a crossbox to the axle. The real problem is power pickup. I was thinking a powered trailer of some sort could work, using batteries and RC control. There is only one rail, and I couldn't bear to do something weird to the wooden side tracks for power. But my experience with making things run is not so hot. The other challenge would be building a lot of that track...lots of work, although I can get the wood in the correct sizes for 1/16th. The likely killer is that I would need a figure if it was running...bleh! A big frozen wax figure in death valley? I don't think so.
Solidworks is a great tool for something like this. Especially if I can get some parts made directly from my files. Yesterday I downloaded several solid models of springs for the side rollers from a spring company. I can then buy those springs and use them on the actual model. There are still a lot of things to figure out before I start building. Kind of like Gordon's loco project from one photo...mysteries to be solved.
And yes, Ken, months of fun ahead if I'm lucky. 2013 though, jeez it's just around the corner!
Very cool project! I've always been intrigued by those monorails.
QuoteThe real problem is power pickup.
You can use the side guide rails as pick ups, a brass / nickle-silver strip each side with 2 contact strips each side. Use Roughboy's technique to hide the wireslike he did in the shay's footboard's and of it goes You can use the 8mm or 10 mm dia Faulhaber. Strong enough ....even with planetary gearbox integrated.
Jacq
.....even easier....just do RC...at this scale a controller/receiver unit can easily be hidden in the loco or a trailing car. Same with the battery....some of the small RC cars use batteries the size of those in our cell phone. Easy to hide.....could even hide the stuff in a load of wood or salt bags. Why fuss with electrical connections when not necessary. Makes the trackwork building a no brainer as well.
M
Marc,
yes, that is a very good suggestion. It is than possible to use even smaller motors than the 8mm faulhaber.
http://www.mikroantriebe.de (http://www.mikroantriebe.de) has some nice stuff. motors, battery packs, receivers, servos etc etc.
http://www.microtrucks.de (http://www.microtrucks.de) has some nice samples of 1:67 trucks.
http://www.h0-rc-modellbau.de/fahrzeuge/H0/omega2002/index.htm (http://www.h0-rc-modellbau.de/fahrzeuge/H0/omega2002/index.htm) a 1:87 car
Pity all is in german.
Jacq
Quote from: Chuck Doan on September 29, 2009, 09:47:56 AM
The likely killer is that I would need a figure if it was running...bleh! A big frozen wax figure in death valley? I don't think so.
I'm with you Chuck... keep it static.
Paul
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Got the couplers figured out and part of the sanders based on a new pic I found. Still need to figure out the brakes and the balance rollers. I am trying to keep things to standard material sizes in case the 3D printing idea doesnt pan out.
A working model will reqire different materials and skills. Lot's of excellent machinists here, but not me. So, it will likely be a static model if I actually build it. But I do think an RC powered model would work in this scale.
You could power even a static model by hiding a CO2 cartridge in the toolbox behind the driver's seat .... -- Russ
(I am SUCH a nincompoop!)
Who let Russ out of the corner?
Don't worry, if it starts to go badly, this sucker will FLY! (At least until it hits the wall)
I vote for making it run.
John
Russ, go back to the corner...
Paul
how about makeing it run with sound. Craig
Chuck,
Just a question of curiosity. On the prototype, did they actually notch/shape the side an end 'c' channels into each other like that? Sorry...just seems a bit odd..and like a lot of work for the type of contraption this was....and just not a detail I have seen very often.
M
Quote from: Chuck Doan on October 01, 2009, 10:47:49 AM
A working model will reqire different materials and skills. Lot's of excellent machinists here, but not me. So, it will likely be a static model if I actually build it. But I do think an RC powered model would work in this scale.
It is too easy to project your own preferences onto others projects, I pledge guilty to that on several occasions.
A couple of questions on the latest renderings:
You have changed from barrels to square boxes and from curved endbeams to straight ones. Is this due to finding new documentation?
Personally (here we go again!) I find the original renderings more appealing.
Hey Guy's,
How did they run that thing anyway? ... I mean did they have to load it evenly on both sides to keep it level... It sure is a cool project though...
Mike
Marc, I have a good end shot of one of the cars that has that notching. The frames were all bolted together; I guess that is how they got the channels to nest together. Don't know why they didn't just miter the ends.
Hauk, I am trying to narrow down one of the specific engines. I recently found a better pic of the square ended unit. I didn't understand the round ends...don't know why they would do that since all the cars were square or flat ended, and the couplers (ex LARY) had long shanks. I am guessing that all were built flat ended and they may have added the round end to support the round sander. If I find a better shot of those types, I could change my mind. Nice thing about a solid model...no glued parts to break apart for changes!
Mike, they definitely needed to balance the load. It's one of the weaknesses of this kind of system.The whole thing didn't work very well, but full marks for effort.
Here is a link to a great film of the one in Ireland. Thomas Wright directly copied the concept, but rendered it in wood with internal combustion power. they also had balancing issues.
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=11629
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I put in simple "chains" that match the Servo-link dimensions so I can check clearances to other items. Things are getting crowded! Not sure how the drivers kept their pant legs out of the chains. This drive is based on a Wright patent, but I have no photo proof it was actually implemented this way. I also have no idea of the correct sprocket diameters, and have based the sizes on similar small loco drives. Not shown are some screw tensioners that pushed on the axle pillow blocks to adjust the chains (also based on patent drawings)
I have also started the brake that pressed down on the rail top.
Gee, I bet that steering wheel got a lot of use. -- Russ
The video link was very interesting :o they came up with some cool [stuff] back then didnt they !!! Wish i had a time machine ::) Craig Mich
Quote from: Chuck Doan on October 02, 2009, 09:44:34 AM
Things are getting crowded! Not sure how the drivers kept their pant legs out of the chains.
Looks like a job for bicycle clips and steel-toed boots, or at the very least some heavy duty wellies. I'm thinking OSHA might have had an issue or two with this contraption... Think of the steering wheel as a life-line, to be grasped with white knuckles. I wonder if the shortest straw got to drive it... ;)
Paul
That thing is just too strange to believe!
John
I pretty much finished the design this weekend. Added the Servo-link chains and the balance frame and rollers. Lots of parts to make! Next I'll send some files off to the 3D printer to see what the costs will be.
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Servo link chains applied. Now I know exactly how much chain to buy!
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The balance frame
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The balance rollers. Concept based on one of the patent drawings. The drawings showed castings, but I went with a fabricated design. I think Mr. Wright envisioned fleets of monorails built to his design.
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Add the wooden 2x6 side and running boards with the load carrying I-beams
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And add it to the loco frame. This is pert near everything I will have to fabricate (or have made).
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Then add in the tractor and drives and rail drag brake.
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and shove the track up tween its wheels
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This concludes the solid modeling portion of our program. (maybe)
Hey Chuck,
excelent solution for the balancing... looks great
can't wait to see it come together...
Mike
Chuck
Your drawings are excellent and very safe looking. As far as video goes that is one hell of a strange machine wobbling down the track.
Better safe to walk.
Hope you do this it will be interesting to say the least.
Jerry
Chuck, when you get parts from a 3D printer do they come out ready to install or are there resolution based "steps" that you must file out? I have seen some parts done that way. Some are better than others. Bill Meredith explained that 3D printing is best for parts with compound curves.
Since that technology has been improving over the past decade, I am very interested in how good it is today and what we can expect in the future. I would guess it will become very important to hobby manufacturing down the road, especially if the number of hobbyists continues to drop and if limited run, low production models (out of necessity) replace injection molding.
Russ
I hope to find out! I am expecting to do some clean-up, hopefully not too much.
Superb drawings Chuck. Thanks for creating and posting them.
There is a small armor parts mfr. (I believe out of Australia)...name escapes me at the moment.....that makes stunning and very complex printed 3-D parts...mostly for Pacific theatre Shemans....even link-by-link tracks. From what I have seen of their parts, there is zero stepping or ridges of any kind.....I will see if I can remember the guys name...he used to post on MIG.......but it might behoove you to talk to him about the process and equipment he uses. From the photos his parts seemed to be translucent, and kind of a pale blueish color/hue.
Marc
Your CAD renderings are beautiful! I really need to find out how to do that stuff someday. I tried using TurboCAD but couldn't make any sense of it. Seems to be a lot different from the 3D modeling/animation programs that I'm used to.
Quote from: Chuck Doan on October 05, 2009, 08:26:03 AM
I pretty much finished the design this weekend. Added the Servo-link chains and the balance frame and rollers. Lots of parts to make! Next I'll send some files off to the 3D printer to see what the costs will be.
Please bear with me if this has been adressed before, but what service provider do you plan to use for 3D printing?
I have found three service providers that looks promising:
Print a part (http://www.printapart.com/)
Shapeways (http://www.shapeways.com/)
Pacific Locomotive Works (http://www.pacificlocomotive.com/)
All these companies will accept the business of hobbyists. Seems like PLW can offer the highest resolution wirh their Solidscape printer.
Regards, Håvard H.
Man I wish I had the time to learn that CAD stuff.....
Really cool "drawings"?
Guess you'll have to make another radiator?.....lol
-Marty
Quote from: lab-dad on October 05, 2009, 01:06:33 PM
Guess you'll have to make another radiator?.....lol
-Marty
Should be a breeze for him the second time around ;)....besides, after seeing that airplane guy do one out of PE in 1/48.....1/16 should be like putting together Lincoln Logs. ;) ;D
M
Thanks for those Links, Havard! I have one contact I found on an AFV forum. I hope to hear from him soon. His printer has .001 resolution. I don't mind a little clean up, it will still be miles ahead of time if scratchbuilt (if the cost is tolerable, that is.)
Thanks, Ray! SolidWorks is pretty complicated, but it may pay off for this project. We had a guy at work who could take our "toon colored" models and do photo-realistic rendering. I watched him...and I thought Solidworks was hard to learn!
Yeah, the radiator is no sweat. I thought would be the hardest part of the last one...but Tom's parts made it easy. The hard part will be working with that damn die cast metal again. At least I get to leave a few parts off this time.
Fabulous drawings Chuck but then you make everything look easy.
This loco reminds me of a motorcycle with really big saddle bags.
Chuck,
The HLJ chainset came today...looks a bit small for your scale...but would work wonders in 1/48 through 1/32. The good thing because you have to build each individual link is, that you can make the width to suit the design/width needed.
The chain link plates caliper out to be .095" long x .040" tall.
The large sprockets are .608" in dia, while the smaller ones are .285" in dia.
Note that the actual PE is much sharper and crisper than the image shows.
(Chainset is for the 1/12 scale Yamaha YZR-M1 '04 by Acu-Stion)
M
Fabulous drawings Chuck... really looking forward to seeing how the 3D printing works for you.
Marc: incredible chain set. Are there actually rollers and pins for each of those links? Can it be built up into a functioning chain?
Paul
Paul,
I don't think they could be made active......at least not for more than just a slight manual/partial movement here and there to prove that they turn. The PE is not really meant to be moved, turned, bent etc beyond what is required for initial assembly. Also...because the "shafts/rollers" consist only of a piece of brass rod, there is no real way (short of possibly a ton of fine soldering) to fix the brass pin/rod to the outer link plates in order to keep them from "slipping off" during movement.
If I did my math correctly, this is how much chain one should be able to get out of the set
300 links plates divided by 2 (as each link requires 2 plates) = 150 links x .095" (link length) = 14.25"
This 14.25" then needs to be about halved again, because (as you know) on a chain, links interlock and overlap......so you end up with about a 7-1/8" long chain (plus a bit).
M
Chains for RC motorbikes in 1/8 or 1/5 might be a source of working chains.
I googled a bit and found this site:
http://2wheelhobbies.com (http://2wheelhobbies.com)
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A spare chain for a Kyosho bike in 1/8 sells for $12.00.
They might do the trick for static models as well, if they are delicate enough.
Regards, Håvard
Great find/idea Havard.
They definitely look more "realistic" than the Servo-link ones.
I have an R/C shop down the street from me...will have to drop in and see if they carry parts for motorcylcles.
M
Nice find Havard! I'll see about getting a hold of some. it looks good!
Marcs chains might work for the offset crank drive they mounted on the radiator.
Chuck,
which parts you intend to have 3D printed ?
When you decide to built it, will it be a sort of pedastal with a small piece of track with the engine sitting on it or a small landscaped diorama?
Jacq
Hi Jacq,
I have ordered the drive wheels as a start to see what the quality will be. I should know next week.
If I build it, it will be as you said, a short section of track on a small base with simple scenery. If I somehow stay interested, it would be nice to do one of the cars too.
Chuck, this is some wonderful Cad work. I was wondering do you think you should add some skid plates at the front of the balancing beam sideframe? You know to beat down the weeds and the occasional small critters that run by the tracks or track in your case. ;D Pat
I recently saw products from a 3D printer at a trade show -- they were impressive. Interlocking parts moved inside each other. Exact copies were made from 3D images of things like human spines. The colors were accurate. I was given a sample and marveled at it until I dropped it and it shattered. Other than being brittle, the finish was grainy, almost like sandstone, so unless one used a higher resolution setting, 3D printing might not be ideal for smaller scales.
Quote from: Brent on October 11, 2009, 05:34:20 PM
I recently saw products from a 3D printer at a trade show -- they were impressive. Interlocking parts moved inside each other. Exact copies were made from 3D images of things like human spines. The colors were accurate. I was given a sample and marveled at it until I dropped it and it shattered. Other than being brittle, the finish was grainy, almost like sandstone, so unless one used a higher resolution setting, 3D printing might not be ideal for smaller scales.
Sounds like a part made by a Zcorp 3D printer. Even at the printers highest resolution, you will get the grainy finish. This is probably due to the nature of the material used for the parts, wich is a sort of plaster. Thats also why they are so brittle.
But there are many alternatives to the Zcorp printers. For instance, Print-A-Part uses InVision printers that produces parts in a sort of plastic that is said to be durable enough for finished parts.
Regards, Håvard H
Håvard, how do you know all this stuff? Your breadth of knowledge never fails to impress me, let alone the fact that you communicate flawlessly in at least three languages I can think of. -- Russ
Hey Russ,
I concur...
Hauk you are one very vastly informed modeler... you appear to be well rounded in your skills (I think that is what Russ is saying too)
Mike
Quote from: finescalerr on October 12, 2009, 11:59:13 AM
Håvard, how do you know all this stuff? Your breadth of knowledge never fails to impress me, let alone the fact that you communicate flawlessly in at least three languages I can think of. -- Russ
Well, It might not come as a surprise that I search the net a lot...
I have planned for a long time to make some parts by 3D printing, and have done my homework! And thats very typical for me, I research everything to death before actually *doing* something!
As an architect student I spent too much time hanging out with the staff at the model workshop, especiallly when there where demos of new toys.
One of my friends has his own model company, and we discuss production methods and processes a lot.
Bottom line, I am probably to curious for my own good, I should try to spend less time researching and more time modelling. But I just love to research almost any topic, it´s sort of an addiction.
As for communicating in three languages, the only language besides norwegian I master to any useful degree is English.
In all other situations I use Google Translate and large doses of guesswork!
When I just *had* to get some more info on our very talented polish planebuilder friend, I just guessed my way throgh the registration process in Polish and then fired off a PM in English.
I really like that I in some weird way I have come across as a multi langual oracle, but unfortunately that is entirely undeserved.
Awesome project Chuck!
QuoteI have ordered the drive wheels as a start to see what the quality will be. I should know next week
I wonder what the quality will be. most probably not suitable for operation purposes.
For an small car manufacturer we did a small number of lithographic built up dashpanels based on CAD data.
One for packaging testing ( how all parts fit) and two for homologation testing. Surface quality was not the best as the layers remained visible.
Jacq
Hey Chuck,
came accross a couple of 1924 photo's of the monorail your building.
Don't forget the umbrella... :P
Mike
Thanks for those Mike! I think I will do the one in your top pic. I did make a quick solid model of an umbrella, just haven't put it in yet. I also found a distant pic showing a full length canopy of some sort on one of them.
Hey Chuck,
Glad to hear they were of use for you...
I like the top photo scene better also...
BTW thanks I am enjoying this project...
Mike
I have pretty much finalized my design (yeah, right). This is the version seen in the vintage photo at the start of the topic, and in the top canyon shot Mike provided. Kind of a "work truck" for hauling construction supplies when they were building the line. I found a 1923 Popular Science article that had a tiny, but wider crop of that first photo showing a front sander. The drive is pure conjecture, but hopefully plausible and will have to do unless I find new information. I added a headlight because I am a model railroader and we love to adorn our critters. At least it is of proper vintage. There will also be chains attached to the U bolts, but no antlers.
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Chuck,
fantastic CAD work. I can't wait to see this as model.
Jacq
Quote from: jacq01 on October 28, 2009, 08:40:15 AM
Chuck,
fantastic CAD work. I can't wait to see this as model.
Jacq
Double ditto on what Jacq said.
Jerry
Hey Chuck,
It is looking excellent.... ;)
Now to see it come to life is going to be a treat.. Thanks for updating Us...
Mike
Neat new pic, and beutiful CAD rendition.
I noticed you have changed the design from the one with the steel 'I' sections to hold up the loading arms to this one. I wonder if this was an earlier version used during the construction of the operation, and functioned better for hauling lumber and such (due to the binders holding the load in place), and the 'I' beam model a later version because it was able to provide a trough/bin into which to load the salt bags and other supplies.
M
That is the same conclusion I have reached. The I beams came later, I am sure. I can always update if my interest holds!
There are so many similarities to the Lartigue patents (like the I beams), I am sure Wright just changed some things and got his own patents. Too many coincidents for parallel development.
The later version:
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This is just so darn cool....
Hi Guys
Chuck great design studies & wonderful basis for construction.
excellent true roller chain available from Precision Scale Model Engineering [ psme@psmescale.com ] catalogue number MRC-1475 piced at $3,75 per inch with a minimum 6 inch order. also availabe a range of sprockets to suit this 3.75mm pictch chain. However these are in limited sizes only and easy to fabricate using a simple mill / lathe & division head.
I have used this chain many times with excellent results. Finer true chain is available from 2 Japanese sources, but at very [I mean exhorbitant] cost.
Chuck to power your model I would use a 8mm Faulhaber with a 144;1 gearhead forming the spine over which the contours of the Fordson gearbox could be formed with epoxy putty encapsulating the motor assembly. I have done this also by extending the motor tube further forward and building up the "engine / Cylinder barrels" on top of this tube simulating the diff/gearbox/engine unit used in the Fordson.
you might also look at Lemo-Solar part number MC1016 (46.00 Euro) (Motor / Transfer box assembly) in the same way. This unit is normally used in HO (1:87) road truck power unit. again it would be relatively easy to develop the Fordson profile over the motor & transfer box using epoxy putty.
hope this helps
have fun
Bernard
h
Thanks! Thanks Bernard for that info! I will look into that chain for sure.
I modelled a quick car to see what a "train" would look like. Most pictures show only one car in tow. It needs a wood plank seat for the brakeman, and an umbrella.
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Chuck, you are almost finished with the 3-D design and can view the train from any angle. It is highly detailed and looks great. Seems as though actually building it would be almost an anticlimax! -- Russ
If I learn how to do some photo-realistic surface rendering, I will go no further.
Hey Chuck,
Quote
Seems as though actually building it would be almost an anticlimax! -- Russ
I would have to agree with Russ....
Also why would you want to add the photo-realisim textures to a mechanical drawing... when you can make the Realalistic Model (and these are finest designs too, personally I would keep them as mechanical and display them with the finished model....Save the climax for the model IMO)
Mike
you'll never be able to weather as realistically in 3-D computerland as you do in real life.
There wont be any texture to feel! OOps I'm not supposed to touch! damn.....
-Mj
Hey, I have an idea! Render the wholel model in one piece of resin with a 3-D printer, coat it in latex rubber, and I can market it as part of my plastic love accessories line! -- Name and address withheld by request
Quote from: finescalerr on October 30, 2009, 12:34:54 PM
Hey, I have an idea! Render the wholel model in one piece of resin with a 3-D printer, coat it in latex rubber, and I can market it as part of my plastic love accessories line! -- Name and address withheld by request
Uncle Russ' Rubber Delights... and he tells us he won't use a table saw because he plays the clarinet... ;)
Paul
What a neat project! Glad I looked at it and the drawings are unbelievable!
I started playing around with another of the Epsom salt monorail locos. Basically a powered ore car. Still a lot of details to figure out. Should be easy to cobble together from sheet styrene. And a few thousand rivets. Definitely a candidate for some 3D printed parts.
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Hmmmm. great!
May be you and Gordon can drag race your monorails! ;D
I see we are both revisiting unfinished business...........
Do you have a Franklin Mint Tractor to use or are you going to scratch the Fordson?
-Marty
I still have the die cast one I bought as a backup for the farm version. Gordon can scratch them, not me!
This version would allow some simple brass structural parts to support the heavy die cast tractor. Plus a LOT of metal weathering.
I think our static models will need a steep grade to start moving! DRAG race is appropriate though.
Chuck I thought you would be sick of tractors after your Fordham extravaganza...apparently not!
Well, it has taken me two years or more to get to the point of maybe thinking about the remote possibilty of doing another, perhaps!
I'm as impressed with the drawing as with the design.
Great job, Chuck.
Thanks Ken!
I did some preliminary coloring tests for the monorail track. No knots yet, but there will be. It's hard to know how to weather it; this will be a section of yard track which would have been the oldest in use, but it wouldn't have been more than five or six years old. Supposedly Douglas Fir. Not sure how green lumber would have colored in the desert. I might try something more on the grey side next.
I did try a little faux graining-still considering it. More to be done, but at least it's underway.
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Uh-oh. Here he goes .... -- Russ
I'm waiting for the scale splinters and carpenter ants ...
Chuck
Good to see you starting on this. For just starting that piece of wood looks like it came right from a lumber yard not off your bench!!
This should be interesting to say the least.
Jerry
Thanks, now to see if I can overcome the usual summer ennui and get something done.
Dallas I did my homework on the ants:
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After some of these show up, the splinters come naturally!
Sweet. I like the saw marks. Is the coloring your usual silverwood and pigments?
Marc
Thanks Marc. I set up an angled fence on my disc sander and put an eccentric sticky pad on and ran the beams across the edge to make the marks.
Then Silverwood then pigments and Acetone wash and then some dullcote and gwosh and soda blasting to dull. I have been collecting pics of recycled Doug Fir beams for more coloring ideas.
Chuck
Just what is a eccentric sticky pad on and ran the beams across the edge to make the marks?
Jerry
I guess a photo would have helped. I use stick on 5" dia. sanding disks (sticky pad) and put one on off center (eccentric) so about .03 of one edge hung over the sanding wheel. Then I ran the wood at an angle to the wheel edge to get a scuff mark when the overhanging bit rolled past. Not much clearer is it? I will take a picture.
Oooh, oooh, oooh,...I get it! I get it!
My sanding disk fits like that all the time....unintentionally. ;D
Marc
I'm slowly working out the design of the hopper loco. I really wish these guys had heard about welding; there are over 300 rivets in each side of the hopper alone. Too bad I can't pattern the model rivets as easily as in Solidworks.
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Side doors
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I am also finishing the 3D models of the link and pin couplers that came from the L. A. Railway streetcars. I'm not sure if the lettering will print all that well, but it's worth a try. I hope to get some quotes for some of the parts this week.
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Here's the saw marking method...the styrene fence is super glued in place.
I spent some time building a quick mock-up from cardboard and scrap wood. I had been doing a lot of planning, but I needed to get a sense of how big this will be. The prototype is estimated at a bit over 7 feet wide by 12 feet long which equates to 5.5" x 9" in 1/16th scale. The wheels are the first 3D printed parts I did a couple of years ago for the first (aborted) monorail. I put the partially dismantled Danbury tractor in place and took some pictures:
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One thing that occurred to me on seeing the mock-up is that if I fill it with ore, I will eliminate the need to install several hundred rivets. That alone was worth the hour I spent on it. Another thing will be figuring out how to make the monochromatic paint job interesting on such a large (to me) model.
I also did a little digital "squinting":
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"Wanna race Scratchman?" ;D
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"We're going to need a bigger bench"
Great start!
I dont see how filling it eliminates the need for the rivets...............
And, we always need a bigger bench!
-Marty
Well, look at that ... Chuck uses little tiny bottles of Rust-All and drinks little tiny cans of Pepsi! ;D
Fill it with ore!
Dallas
Chuck, Looks like you have a good start on the project ;) will be following along with great interest. Thanks for posting a picture of doing your saw marks on the wood.
Marty, if I don't detail the insides of the hoppers (and the 6 doors) it will eliminate 300 rivets easy.
It always cool to see the desk of the "Mad Scientist" !
Cool ! but Scary?
MPH
Chuck
Thanks posting the picture of how to do the saw marks.
And a nice orderly bench if I do say so myself!!! It woluld take a "Wizard" to find things there :D
Jerry
Seeing your working area, I don't need to be ashamed anymore. ;D ;D
That is becoming a beautiful model, but a bit too large for me.
Jacq
Great mock-up! I almost fell out of my chair when I saw it, because I thought it was the final model (just last week you were saying you were going to get back on it...and now a completed build!....I thought there must have been some dimensional shift or warp in the time-space continuum!)
I think there is a lot of room for a great amount of interest in painting and weathering such a large monochromatic piece. There are so many panels and small surfaces that it wiyld be a great candidate for panel fading and shading, filters and color modulation. I have also seen some really great work on sub models...yes I know it's not a sub, and water weathers differently ;D, but they also have to deal with large monochromatic surfaces.
Marc
Crappy cardboard construction and LOTS of photoshop texturing...who need to spend hundreds of hours on models! ;D
That's a good thought on painting-I will look around some for ideas.
Actully, my bench is pretty clean just now!
Adequate nonetheless. -- Russ
Chuck nice job so far on the ore car. I like the way you can see most of the tractor. What kind of brakes did these ore cars have? Is the drive system a sprockets and chain type setup?
I like the saw mark. How do you control a constant speed when pushing the work piece? Also how fast is the sander going?
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Thanks Gordon. The only brake seems to be the rail shoe like the ones you did. This is a guess though, but there is a brake wheel sticking up right behind the drivers seat. The drive is supposedly a worm gear on each wheel driven by a drive shaft on the drivers left side. This setup may have also helped with braking. I am still hoping for some more info to show up.
The sander is speed controlled, probably 80 percent fast, whatever that is. I just push with as constant a speed as I can. A mini sawmill carrage would be nice! I think a mini table saw might be useable too to scuff the edges.
I haven't been able to do much lately, but I am almost done with the design of this crazy contraption.
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I have been in touch with the Searles Valley museum near Trona Ca, and also Adrian Garner who wrote the Gazette articles. The museum is just down the road from where the monorail began its 30 mile journey into the hills. I have seen six new photos of these machines that have helped a lot. Thank you Margaret and Adrian! There are still some details to be worked out, but I think I am ready to start building.
I sent some test parts to Shapeways, but their advertised 10 day delivery is getting closer to a month and they are not too keen to tell me when I might actually get them. Not a good start, especially for my first order. ???
Okay - whilst I am prepared to do some research and find out... being a little lazy this AM - can someone enlighten me as to the "why" of a monorail design (not yours, Chuck, but the original Wiley Coyote types)? Was there that much to be save by not adding an extra iron rail (with the cross section view and all of the lateral stabilization, you'd need a team of carpenters, no?); did it adapt to sharper curves; or was it considered a chick magnet? I know nothing about these - and unlike a ZahnRadBahn or the like, the problem this is solving isn't leaping out at me.
Standing by for that head slapping moment, and getting ready to do an after work google-fest : ::)
Thanks gents for any illumination...
There has been a fair bit of speculation as to why they chose a monorail design. There was a narrow rocky canyon they had to traverse, but otherwise the route was pretty wide open. Supposedly it was to need less grading, but there was plenty done anyway (much still visible today). I agree that all the extra wood required seemed to negate the advantage of saving one rail. The curves had to be extra large to accommodate the long wheel based locos. Plus there were only two wheels to provide drive and braking force. Ultimately the weakness of the track structure helped contribute to the demise of the enterprise.
I have no idea if 20's flapper girlz found monorail tractors sexy, but it may well have been the deciding factor! I think the improbability of it is what is so interesting to me. (Plus a fondness for Fordsons myself ;)!)
Thanks Chuck - I'm feelin' better about this... While I'm not an engineer (nor do I play one on TV), the tiny little incandescent bulb in my head just wasn't coming on. I had looked at it off and on, and kept wondering without doing any looking up yet - so much appreciated. This looks like one of what we used to refer to in the military as a scheme from the "Good Idea Faerie" ;D
Paul
I'm betting that he'll build working coiled-spring shock absorbers as shown in the cross-section, then hide them away inside never to be seen again! Oh crap, just got knocked down by a bunch of flappers running to see what all the fuss is about ...
Cheers,
Dallas
Fortunately those sprung thingies are on the outside and got well oiled. Hmm, maybe I should put that another way...
Chuck
Your design work an explanations are worth the reading even if you didn't build it.
Thanks for all your time and effort to keep us up on how these things work.
Jerry
thanks Jerry!
Here is a link to an orientation drawing:
http://images114.fotki.com/v74/filewleS/a737a/7/777399/2992336/6052800937_471ba6e743_b.jpg
Chuck,
No need to build ;^) Your drawings are works of art on their own!
/Lennart Elg
Chuck your drawings are a treat to look at and study, I know you have probably been asked this a great many times over the years but what program are you using for your drawing? I am looking forward to seeing the build.
Michael
Thanks Lennart! Michael, I am using Soldworks to create a 3D "model" of a model. The drawings are derived from the model and update automatically if I change anythingl. The next step would be to use a rendering program like Paul has done to make them photorealistic. I am not at that point yet. I would still rather make it in real-D.
Chuck, thanks for the info, I am in agreement that I would rather build in 3D than draw in 3D.
Michael
Chuck, the drawings are great and explain a lot about those contraptions that old photos leave unclear. The CAD of the model is a neat idea. Are you drawing it in the model scale and not with prototype real world dimensions?
When drawing models such as my bridges I reference field dimensions and/or actual plans, but I start drafting directly in the scale of choice rather than 1:1. In CAD you can scale things but scaling down real parts generally results in unbuildable model parts. Same thing even if one tries to scale down model parts, say from 1:48 to 1:87.1. Material thicknesses, strengths and detail resolution come into play. Many folks do not understood that.
John
Thanks John.
I do as you do; I am modeling this in 1/16th scale. I do it for the same reason you mention-I plan to get several parts printed, so I need to be mindful of the actual sizes in this scale. Some things are a little oversize to allow for the minimum wall thickness requirements. Just adds a little more calculator time is all.
Someone asked me about getting my 1/2" scale gas pump printed in 1/48th and I had to explain that a lot of the thicknesses wouldn't print properly.
On another note, I recently came across a service offering 3D printing in titanium for medical parts, etc. I'm not a doctor, but I used to play one as a child, and maybe now I can realize my dreams!
Chuck, go stand in the corner. -- Russ