Hi all,
Haven't been a forum member for a week yet and here I am asking for help.
My question has to do with printing model signage with an INKJET printer on self sticking vinyl sheets.
I have the sheets and can print to them. Where I am having trouble is finding a way or a program to
make the sign boards or backgrounds to put the lettering on. Anyone have any information they would like to share
on how to do this?
Thanks for your time.
Rick Marty
My only suggestion is that you find vector based software to avoid the 'pixelation' (correct word?) that comes when reducing fonts and/or graphics. I'm on a Mac and use an older version of MacDraft with decent results on a variety of decal papers.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you having trouble printing clean graphics or making a sign you can stick the graphics to?
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the interest, I will try to explain my problem more clearly.
There is available, and I have used, a white adhesive vinyl film (peel & stick) media that can be
ran through an ink-jet printer. It is a great media for making signage in large scale modeling. You can
download signs from the NET print them to this media and peel & stick. Instant Sign. You can also
add any text that you want and print that. This media is used for printing "bumper stickers" and with a
over spray of UV protection it holds up very well outside in the elements.
My problem.
When printing my own signs like "JOE'S DINER" I would like to add a frame or border or even a background
to the sign instead of just a blank white space with the lettering on it. I can't seem to find any program on my computer
or on the net that will let me do this. I have seen programs for sale for sign making in the 3-4 hundred dollar range
but these are for sign shops with laser cutters etc., way more than I need.
Any ideas?
Thanks.
Rick Marty
Best for this is something like Adobe Illustrator or one of the other Adobe Suite programs....but these are expensive and have a pretty fair learning curve.
If you are running a PC and have a fairly recent OS installed you should have included in that, a very basic graphics program called "Paint" (this can be found under start/accessories/paint). It is not the most intuitive to use (because of its level of quality...but I have used it successfully before).
Microsoft Word (at least my 2007 Pro version) will also allow you to do a good bit of graphics and design work and some type manipulation....and should probably do the trick for what you need.
Otherwise, if you happen to have purchased/loaded the Office/Pro version of the Microsoft suite, it includes a program called "Publisher"; though not as good as Illustrator, or even the old Quark..... it can do some pretty decent stuff and more type manipulation if you learn how to use it.
I don't have a Mac.....but I understand there is a very basic drawing program called Corel Draw, that might also do the trick.
Hope this is of some help.
Marc
If you are using a Mac, there are a lot of applications available to create your graphics, even some very powerful free applications. The point is as Mark pointed out, you need some sort of drawing or painting application that you are comfortable with. For creating signs, I find it easiest to use a drawing type application such as Illustrator, CorelDraw, or one of the many CAD applications. Most of these are not cheap and all take a fair amount of time (and maybe an evening class to learn. The advantage of these is that they all create line-art. (By the way, only use truetype or postscript fonts, not the older bitmap fonts.) The advantage of line art is that it is easily scaled and edited. (Have you ever scaled and printed a picture only to find strange lines running through it? Line-art won't do that.) With line art and careful settings of your printer, you can get the crispest edges and best resolution possible from your printer every time, even when scaled.
Painting applications such as Photoshop or Paint create bitmapped images. You paint the pixels at a resolution that you can select. When you print the image, the printer driver has to scale the pixels to the resolution of the printer. Line art is not converted to pixels until it is printed, so it doesn't have this problem. However, you can create excellent art with a paint application if you follow a few basic rules.
1. Save your art as a TIF, Photoshop, PIC, or GIF file, never as a JPG.
2. Work at 1:1 scale for the print size you want. Zoom in to create the art the way you want.
3. Set your page resolution to be the same as the printer you will be using. If you must scale down your art, be sure that your artwork resolution remains an even multiple of your print resolution. For instance, If you plan to print at 600 DPI, your artwork should be at 600, 1200, or 1800 DPI.
4. For color photographs, print with resolutions of at least 244 DPI. For all line art, print with resolution of at least 600 DPI.
If you are interested in jumping into this with both feet, are not planning to work with professional printers, and you might want to experiment with laser cutting some day, then I would recommend learning CorelDraw on a PC. (The newer versions of CorelDraw are not available for the Macintosh.) If you want the best applications for graphic arts and might want to work with professional shops, by far the most popular application among professional graphic artists is Adobe Illustrator run on a Macintosh. You will also want Photoshop for certain things such as converting scanned (bitmapped art) into line art.
The cheapest, high quality solution is using an application such as Inkscape. I haven't used it myself but I hear good things about it and it's free. (Mac, Unix, or PC)
http://www.inkscape.org/
I hope this helps.
Mike
Marc & Mike,
Thanks for the indepth replys.
I have been trying to avoid the expense of the
elaborate programs but more importantly the learning curve time
involved. I just want to knock out a few signs for the railroad
not learn a new trade.
I have a PC with VISTA so it is pretty well up to date. I will look around in the OFFICE 2007 program some more, there should be something in that. I have played around with the Paint program but have never had much luck understanding it.
I will look at that INKSCAPE program and see what I can find.
Thnks for the help guys.
Rick Marty
Hey Rick,
The easiest way would be is to just print your background on the media (make sure you line things up so you are able to line it up again.) then print it again with the over-lay printing.
basically your going to print on the same media 2x (0 learning curve, only doing what you already know how to do just doing it twice)
Heh... I am not sure what kind of printer you have but it's worth a try.
Hope that helps.
Mike
Mike,
If he has overlapping colors, printing 2x (overprinting will not really work) unless the top color is solid black. Inkjet inks are inherantly transparent...so the bottom color will tend to show through (actually the overlapping area will then turn a mixed color result of the two) The only small desktop printers that I have seen that you can osucessfully overprint with are the highly specialized ones used by some graphic design firms (I think Epson makes it)...and it prints with almost completly opaque and completely matte inks.
Marc
Hey marc,
OHhh I agree with you on the odds of him having a high-end printer were next to none. ;)
but I have seen some ppl pull it off... (getting it right by the 20th try :o )
Also I have already seen you guy's around here do some amazing things with those kinds of Low-tech tools. ;D
heh... it was just an idea on the fly..
Mike
Hi All,
This is the kind of thing I have been talking about.
This is a simple program in Microsoft Office that I have finally figured
out how to use. It is basic but a start.
Thanks for your time
Rick Marty
PS
That sure is an odd way to add a picture.
Some of you may not be able to open the
docx link above so here is a link to a regular doc
document.
Thanks
Rick Marty
Rick
I would try just for ha ha's and print the yellow background first, (larger than the needed size, trim after)
Then remove the yellow background from your image and just print that graphic and the black text and outline on the already printed yellow background.
see where you stand after that experiment.
Mike
Hi Mike,
The "joe's Diner" sign is not something I am going to use it is just shown as an example of what I was trying to acomplish using the computer and printer. Some of the conversation above has brought out some great ideas but was getting a little to complex for this ol' country boy to follow.
I do understand what your talking about with the "double printing" to give better/deeper color and if I can figure out how to that I will give it a try.
Thanks for the tip.
Rick Marty
Hello Rick,
Great I will be watching for your results...
I will try some things as well..
I would keep in mind (in pretty much any standard printer it is alot easier to line up a full sheet of paper twice)
could try taping the smaller vinyl sheet to the larger paper to help line things up.
anyway just some things to ponder..
Mike
Since this is my first post I hope I don't get into trouble for posting this link...
Rick, have you tried using Microsoft Excel? It will do what you want to do with your signs. I use it 99% of the time for making my signs and it works very well. I wrote a small tutorial which will get you going. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Here is a recent example...it's the one on the upper left.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq288%2FSwankhammer%2FG011.jpg&hash=05845286cf8c96c4effcefbc2b747cdd5503bd47)
The tutorial...
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11853&SearchTerms=Excel,for,Signs
Hello Marken,
Now that is what I'm talking/asking about.
Thanks a bunch for posting that.
I have read all through the tutorial and think I understand it. I don't use Excel
much at all but I did take an evening class at the local JC a few years ago and
they covered it pretty well.
My first question would be how do you resize the cells so that they are 1:20 scale?
1:20 would be about 9/16ths to the foot in round numbers.
This has great potential for me, I have made a few basic signs using Word and printing
to the vinyl "paper" but this will take it up to a whole new level. Once I get into the program
I'm sure I will have further questions, hopefully you will be available/willing to spend the time to answer them.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
Rick Marty
Glad I could help Rick. I've done a few diorama's in 1/25 scale (1/2"), so your just a tad larger.
To change the cells, open your workbook and left click on the box right of cell A and above cell 1. The work area should be highlighted. Now, click Format, column and width. Set that to 6.57. Click Format again and click row, height and change that to 39.75. It will get you close.
I'll keep checking this thread for any questions you might have.
Ken
Hi Ken,
Started through your tutorial and it went well up to a point in the second installment, putting a colored border on the cell.
To start with I'm using Windows Vista so it is a little different than your pictures. At the top I have CELLS, FORMAT and a drop down window with a (format cells) choice, this brings up the window with Border as one of the choices. Under borders I choose a heavy line a yellow color (for instance) and check (outline) and the preview shows just exactly that so I click OK and get a beautiful dark blue border on my cell. If I choose red I get yellow, if I choose blue I get black. The interesting thing is that if I click on another (smaller)cell the correct chosen border color comes up on that cell.
Oh well, I'll keep clicking away at it, I'm sure it is something I'm overlooking or missing. Up to this point it has worked well. Maybe I'll just skip over the border color for now and try the fonts and see what colors they come up with.
Later
Rick Marty
Rick, when you click outline and choose a color, it doesn't know where the colored lines should go. What you need to do after you pick a color is click on the outline and you'll see the color change to the one you chose. You'll have to do that for all four lines.
Same thing with the fonts. You'll have to highlight the text before choosing the font color.
Try that and let me know how it worked.
Ken
Interesting approach Ken and it does work for you. But as a veteran graphic designer, I can't help wondering if there is a specific reason you're using a spreadsheet application for an imaging solution? There are many excellent imaging applications available, though they can be and most often are more expensive than MS Office. This does however provide an alternative approach for anyone with a business computer who doesn't want to fork out the investment for the Adobe suite or something similar.
Paul
there are alot of free graphics editors out there also...
try this search: http://www.bing.com/search?q=freeware+graphics+apps&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC
might help... but hey if your content with excel...
BTW most newer computers today come with some form of office productivity platform, there are free office suite apps too.(i.e. Open Office has an excell type app and the whole Office suite is free and runs in windows or mac... works with MS Office created files also) ( I use Office 2007 Ultimate, but I am also running Windows 7 Pro RTM) alot of older graphics apps do not function well with the new windows OS (I have adobe photoshop and jasc paintshop pro working on it but had to do some custom config to work right)(warning to future windows 7 users.. heads Up for those who wish to keep their current graphics apps...an upgrade to windows 7 will limit what older apps you can continue to use.)
Mike
Paul, you really answered your own question.
Your a graphic designer, I build diorama's. You need powerful software, I don't. Excel does everything I need it to do and it works well.
I originally started using it at work as a statistical tool about 13 years ago. I can do more with Excel than I could with Minitab, and I don't need a license. Excel is a very powerful software in it's own right, and I'm very comfortable using it. The graphics portion of it was a pleasant surprise.
It is an alternative to high priced software and the learning curve is much less. Besides, it just plain works for me.
Ken
I didn't mean any disrespect Ken, that's pretty much what I thought and it certainly does the job for you. It's good of you to share the tutorial here. I'm a firm believer in resourcefulness and using what you've got, especially in these economic times.
Paul
QuoteRick, when you click outline and choose a color, it doesn't know where the colored lines should go. What you need to do after you pick a color is click on the outline and you'll see the color change to the one you chose. You'll have to do that for all four lines.
Hi Ken,
Yes, I agree that is what should be done and that is what I have been doing but it seems that the computer doesn't like that idea. After going through those steps, selecting yellow, and clicking OK
I still come up with a nice bright blue border on my "working" cell. An interesting new developement this evening. On my work page with the blue border on my "working" cell I can click on some other random cell and it will outline in heavy black, as I assume it is supposed to do, but it will also change the border color on my "working" cell to the desired yellow color. The minute I click back into my "working" cell the border will revert to blue. Strange huh?
Paul and Mike
Thanks for the input and knowledge. The whole idea of this "quest" was to find something simple and inexpensive to make a few signs for the railroad, preferably with some program already on the computer to keep the learning curve to a minimum. I know, naive. For me, nothing on a computer ever turns out simple.
Thanks for the help.
Rick Marty
Rick, that is strange ??? What Excel program are you using? I started with Excel 97 but have 2003 now.
Let me know and I'll do some investigating.
Paul, no disrespect taken. I find it hard to invest in a graphics program that will be barely used.
Ken
Hi Ken,
Thanks for sticking with me on this.
I'm using Windows Vista Home Premium.
I have also ran into difficulty with the text deletion and the
clip/picture import.
So far it seems that the program I worked out in MS Office is working
better/easier for me. It seems the only thing the office program lacks that this one
has is the graph/scale paper background.
I'll keep playing with it though.
Later
Rick Marty
Rick, what version of Excel are you using?
I'll help you through this and you'll be making signs like a pro.
Ken
Quote from: Marken on August 30, 2009, 06:11:16 PM
Paul, no disrespect taken.
Ken
Good Ken, thanks... certainly none was intended and I can readily understand not wanting to invest in an application that wouldn't see enough use to warrant the expense.
Paul
Hi Ken,
Sorry, I missed that, it is MicroSoft Office Excell 2007.
I sure admire your determination for sticking with this,
hope it doesn't wear you out ;D.
Thanks
Rick Marty
Always enjoy helping a fellow modeler out.
The tutorial I posted was for Excel 97. It's ten years behind what your using and six behind me ::) Probably a huge part of the problem. Let me do some looking around and I'll get back to you.
Ken
Hi Rick,
Thought this would be easy...I got a copy of Excel 2007 for Dummies. The first paragraph in Chapter 1 states:
"The Excel 2007 interface has been completely revamped and redesigned compared to
the older versions of Excel we're all used to. In place of the old pull-down menus, so
prominent in all earlier versions of the program, Excel 2007 now relies primarily on the
Ribbon, a block of commands displayed at the top of the screen and divided into distinct
blocks called tabs. All that's left of the old pull-down menus is the pull-down menu
opened with the Office Button, which replicates most of the File commands. Also, in
place of the many toolbars of previous Excel versions, Excel 2007 offers a single toolbar
called the Quick Access toolbar."
So, I guess I need to do some reading to try and figure out the new interface.
Do you have any pics of the sign you are trying to make? Could you post it?
Thanks.
Ken