Hi all, I have been a member here for many years but hardly ever post because my style/type of modeling hardly fits in with the superb fine detail modeling generally presented here.
However in a recent email exchange with Russ he suggested that the members here might be interested in my efforts at modeling. so we will post a little background info and follow with some clips and build details and see how the interest holds up.
I model a fictional short line RR, the Shasta Pacific, and a logging line the South Fork Timber Company in 1:20.3 scale, outdoors. Not a typical "Garden Railroad" it is all built on benchwork at table top height and no gardening involved.
All locomotives are onboard battery with RC and sound and all switches are manual ground throw because you walk along with your train during switching operations.
I did post a short video of a train at the mill last Spring see here:
https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=3285.0
Here is another, a little longer on the other side of the mill complex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaO7YJtW_EI&ab_channel=ShastaPacificGardenRailroad
Hopefully these links are hot, if not go to my YouTube channel and check out my vast collection of videos, all 3 of them :)
Ups, look here https://www.youtube.com/@Tinbender
If there is an interest I will post pictures from a few builds I have done for this project over the years.
Thanks for taking a look
Rick
Sure, as for myself I would enjoy seeing more of your outdoor railroad empire. I particularly like the natural lighting of your scenes. It seems that the bench top height of your railroad provides easier access to photography and video making.
That's some pretty good stuff. Missed it first time around, thanks for the new posting. Don't worry, it's inspirational, we all need an input and great thanks for yours. Lots of crane/derricks which I'm working on at the moment so it's been a real help.
Les Tindall
Post some photos, too. I think everybody will be interested. -- Russ
Hi Mr Norcalloger - Now come on you do some wonderful inspirational work and we want more with plenty of updates on projects
Please more
Barney
Did this work
Well it seemed to, at least I got this picture to post, I about gave up in frustration trying to get an image to post.
I wrote a sticky about how to post photos when we changed the forum software. If you need it in the future to remind yourself what you did, go here: . Scroll down to December 21, 2022 and you'll see it. But your photo looks fine and clicking on it brings up a larger image. -- Russ (https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=3.0)
Thanks Russ.
How do you insert more than one picture per post and what is the maximum or ideal picture size?
When you add a photo, the forum software tells you how large it is and how many megabytes remain in that post. Add those two numbers together for the maximum photo size. There is no ideal size and I have found it possible to limit a photo to around 250-300 kilobytes at about 100 dpi and about 7" width yet it will look very good. Anything larger may not make much difference but might let you get away with less editing hassle before you upload your photos. -- Russ
This little railcar has been on my someday list for a very long time. It ran on rails that later became the Arcata and Mad River Railroad in far Northern California. What made it unique in this part of the world is that it ran on a track gauge of 45 inches.
Building it for my railroad I had to reduce the gauge to 36 inches which created a problem with the wheel and axel placement as you can see. It is a static model built to 1:20.3 scale for display on my outdoor railroad. Remember it is built for outdoor display so the detail etc. is not as fine as you are use to on this forum.
Rick
Very cool!
Perfectly acceptable for this forum and quite satisfactory. -- Russ
A nice little machine and a nicely built model
Barney
Kind of quiet in here this week.
Here is another video shot at the mill yard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojueMF-OTQ0&t=1s&ab_channel=ShastaPacificGardenRailroad
That could almost pass for 1:1 scale. Nice video.
And, yes, it has been dismally quiet here for the past week or so.
Russ
Very Nice in fact exceptional !!
Barney
Awesome video! Is the caboose scratchbuilt, kit, or something else?
Thanks guys,
Ray the caboose is from a Don Winter's "scratchkit", if anyone is familiar with his kits they will understand the term. Of course I modified it some and added a full interior.
Great video, the sunlight filtering through the trees along with superb models - brill.
Les
Can't believe it has been a year since I last posted anything to this thread. I have been busy on the railroad and will try to include a couple of pictures.
The Fields Hotel, scratch built from 1/4 inch PVC board, Styrene and wood. I used commercial window frames and roof shingles.
Let's see how these pictures come out.
Well that's interesting. My original pictures are crystal clear but end up looking fuzzy when inserted to the posting, but if you click to enlarge they appear much clearer.
Anyway
If you ever lived in Northern or Central California between the 1920's and the 1960's you may remember a grocery store chain called PURITY STORES, The store chain is long gone now but some of their unique quonset hut style buildings still exist but have been repurposed.
I decided I needed one for my new town of Fields Landing so this is what I ended up with. The design had to be slightly modified to fit the space available but hopefully it looks close to the prototype.
An interesting side note; as I was researching this company I learned that in the 1920's one of the major stockholders in the Purity Stores was a man named Cummins who also owned a diesel engine building business that was really struggling to make it.
He came up with the idea of installing his engines in the Purity delivery trucks and as they say the rest is history.
Anyone following this thread MUST enlarge the images. Most satisfactory. No wonder it took you a year to get back to us. Thank you for posting those inspirational photos. -- Russ
Great work!
Where did you get the payphone?
Hi Ray, thanks.
The Pay Phone was scratch built that's why no closeup pictures ;D
Well it sure looks good in the long shots.
All very nice and very neat workmanship
Barney
Here is a building I finished about a year ago. A meat Market that was named for my Dad who was a Meat Cutter/Butcher all his working life.
All scratch built from 1/4 inch PVC board, wood, Styrene and a few other things. There are a few commercial parts that are easily spotted such as NBW's and Styrene shapes.
All the angle iron and bolt plates are because the Seismic bracing upgrades have been completed on this old masonry building. This is/was necessary because of it's location on the Northern California Coast.
Here are a few night lighting shots of the interior.
Beautiful! The roof details are especially nice and add a lot of interest to an often overlooked (literally and figuratively) area.
Hi Rick
,I love your builds please post more it is a good mix here
Cheers Kim
Been a while since I posted on this thread so thought I would show you what I have been up to this year.
First the new log landing. The table was extended and the scene developed.
The spar tree with the heel boom rack is the center piece.
A few pictures.
Your modeling is far too good to remain outdoors. Satisfactory. -- Russ
Thanks for the kind words Russ.
To prevent any misunderstanding the "models" only remain outdoors during operating sessions in the seasons of kinder, gentler weather.
The larger items, in this case the spar tree, rigging, track etc. remain out year round.
Well the above posting was so successful I think I will ho-hum you a little more :)
A modeling project that has been on the back burner for several years is the development of a Fire Train for the South Fork Timber Co.
What is a fire train? Glad you asked.
What follows is a brief history of fire in the logging woods and what the logging companies did about it.
FIRE TRAINS
Fire was always a huge problem for the logging and lumbering companies in the arid Pine forests of California and Oregon. A forest fire was almost inevitable during the Summer months in any logging operation from the 1880's to the 1950's in these dry mountains. Forest fire in the West is still a major problem and concern, the difference between then and now is, that back then, logging crews were in the woods with man power and equipment ready and willing to attack any fire outbreak. Granted a great majority of the fires were started by the logging and railroad equipment no matter how careful the crews tried to be. The fact is they were already on the ground and could usually control any fire outbreak before it could become what we know now days as a conflagration, consuming hundreds of thousands of acres.
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Photo from Tim Purdy's book Fruit Growers Supply Company
I suppose I must, at this time, insert a disclaimer.
This is not about politics or governmental policies, just history, so please don't take it there, thank you.
By the early 1920's many large logging/lumbering companies in Northern California and Southern Oregon had huge financial investments in timber land as well as mills, railroads, and crews to harvest, process and sell these trees converted to lumber to build this nation. Fire was the last thing in the world they wanted to see happen, the loss of timber, the cost of man power to fight any fires and the cost of equipment to do so was a huge drain on their profits and after all that's what they were there for, profit.
But fire happened and better ways to fight and control the outbreaks were needed. Many of the larger companies set up special crews and equipment and conducted training of their logging crews so they could be better prepared to handle the fires. Some starting with just ground crews using shovels and saws to get a jump on the flames. Some started transporting fire trucks on flat cars to be brought into the fire areas and help control the flames. Of course equipment and techniques advanced, loggers being the innovative men they were, came up with bigger and better ideas.
There is no way of knowing where and when the first official "fire train" was put into operation and we must also consider what was a "fire train". Some say it was fire fighting pumper trucks loaded on flat cars and pushed into the woods by a locomotive to the location of the fire, a good thought but realize they had very limited ability. Their biggest problem was the small amount of water they were able to carry and the range of their effectiveness. Others say it was the steam pump mounted on the pilot of a locomotive pumping water from the tender out a high pressure hose to douse fires, we can see how this would be self defeating.
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Both photos from the book Pino Grande by R.S. Polkinghorn
End of chapter one, more to come.
Well this is going over really well ::) But I committed to it so will continue.
Let's call this chapter 2
Tim Purdy in his book Fruit Growers Supply Company talks about the danger and destruction of fire in the woods and ways that were used to fight and prevent fires.
"On Monday July 28, 1924, the worst forest fire in the history of the Lassen Operation erupted, this one caused by sparks from a steam donkey operating between Camps D and F. With the extremely dry conditions and winds fanning the flames, it quickly burned out of control. In less than an hour the blaze turned into a firestorm, spreading over four miles and destroying three steam donkey engines, eight railroad flat cars, one water tank car and about three miles of railroad track.
Initially 575 men fought the blaze. Red River Lumber sent 110 men to assist. A crew from the Lassen Lumber and Box arrived later, delayed by another fire south of Susanville,
Camp D narrowly escaped destruction, saved only by men on each cabin rooftop extinguishing the burning embers as they landed. Luckily, despite the intensity of the fire, there were no major injuries. But before it was over, 7000 acres of Antelope Mountain had burned. Fruit Growers pocket book was hard hit. Suppressing the fire cost $34,378.20."
"It was then that Fruit growers abandoned the standard method of fire prevention, piling and burning brush and slash after the logs were removed. They adopted a new method, building a series of fire lanes. The fire lanes were 100 feet wide and completely void of vegetation, each encircling 100 acre sections of timber. They were formed by a special V-drag hooked to a 60 Caterpillar tractor which could clear up to six miles of fire lanes a day. The lanes not only served as firebreaks, they also provided quick access. Now, 70 years later, the early firebreaks are still visible although the practice was abandoned in the 1940's.
After each 100 acre area was logged, all the dead trees, or snags were felled, because if left standing, they posed a fire hazard. Once the snags were felled, however, they again became potential fuel, this time on the forest floor. After the first substantial snowfall, the fire crew burned the snags.
During the fire season two crews of eight to ten men worked as fire prevention teams. It was their job to build fire lines, oversee brush and slash piling, remove dead snags and maintain telephone lines. After this 1924 fire Fruit Growers established and maintained a fire lookout on Antelope Mountain."
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Photo from Tim Purdy's book Fruit Growers Supply Co.
By the end of 1932, the 178 miles of fire lanes constructed over 26,000 acres had proved very effective. Even though three of the six years it took to build them were critical fire years, only 53 acres burned. From 1925 to 1940 prevention cost $40,373.54, fire fighting costs only $7,546.65."
Another result of this 1924 fire was a law suit brought against Fruit Growers for damages to the National Forest. As a result Fruit Growers established a tree nursery next to the mill in Susanville and agreed to plant 20,000 acres of seedlings on National Forest land. This fire also accelerated the conversion to tractor logging getting the steam donkeys out of the woods further reducing future fire hazards.
End of chapter two, more to come.
Well I guess we can call this chapter 3.
Very soon what we now think of as a fire train was born, tank cars feeding water to car top mounted water cannons with greater range and almost unlimited water supply.
Perhaps the most famous "fire train," and most photographed, was put into operation by the Red River Lumber Company of Westwood, California in the mid 1920's.
The Red River Company was a leading innovator in the logging and lumbering industry; being among the first to introduce Cat tractor logging and making major improvements to the machines, The use and development of the tracked logging arch was another of their firsts. Electric powered donkeys, chain saws and locomotives in the woods was researched and developed, refrigerator cars for transport and storage of foods at the outlaying camps were just a few of their ideas put into practice.
With this kind of innovative spirit it is no wonder that they developed such an effective system to fight wild fires. I will quote the development of this train from Robert Hanft's book, "Red River, Paul Bunyan's Own Lumber Company and It's Railroads."
"A May 1924 fire hastened creation of a Red River fire fighting innovation. Around noon on the 26th a fire started in slashing between the location of Camp 34 and 36. The Camp 34 men stopped regular work immediately and hastened to the fire front. Theodore Walker (member of the owning family) and Walter Luff loaded a steam powered fire truck onto a railroad flat car, hooked on four tank cars full of water, and hurried to the fire front with their special train, extra men and tools. By midnight the fire was under control, having been confined to about 40 acres of cut over land. After the weary men had returned to their beds, Theodore Walker turned his attention to devising a more efficient fire control system, and came up with Red River's justly famed fire train.
Heart of the fire train was a box car converted to a pump unit. It was equipped with two high pressure monitor nozzles on the roof, mounted close to the edge to enable nearly vertical flooding. A metallic hose was carried coiled on the roof and could be coupled to the steam dome on any Red River locomotive, which furnished the power supply. Inside the asbestos covered car a 150 horsepower steam engine drove a centrifugal pump. Water supply was assured by a tank car of 10,000 gallons capacity adjacent to each end of the pump car, kept filled and coupled on. Suction to the pump was via a line from the bottom of the tankers, but hose connections were provided to take water from the dome of any other tank car. Axes, shovels, saws and other tools were carried, together with more than a thousand feet of hose to reach well beyond the train itself or the range of it's monitors."
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This next picture is tagged on at the end, for some reason it didn't want to play by the rules.
Photos from Robert Hanft's book Red River
"The fire train could serve anywhere Red River rails reached and in addition was loaned to the call of other fire crews along the tracks of the Southern Pacific, or that of other nearby logging concerns. It served so well that another similar unit was constructed at a later date. The steam pump Was eventually replaced by one powered with a gasoline engine, eliminating the need for cumbersome hook up or requiring the locomotive to remain with the fire car at all times."
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Picture and caption from the book "The Modoc, Southern Pacific's back door to Oregon" By Tom Dill and Jack Bowden
The second generation fire fighting car.
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Photo from Robert Hanft's book Red River
Thanks for taking a look.
More to come.
Interesting project. Do you plan on making it operational for outside?
Small instrumentation pumps would fit in large scale cars.
Regards
Marty J (the other Marty)
Great info!
I read every Timber Times and never came across a "fire train"
Thanks for posting.
Marty J we should talk!
Since we share initials and hobbies.
MJinTN
Yes, Timber Times was a great mag. I have issue 1 through 59 in my library and enjoy rereading them and looking for ideas.
I was lucky enough to have them use a few of my submissions.
Chapter 4
A very short one.
Fire trains are still very much a part of our Western railroading culture as can be seen in the following picture and short video clips.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-photo-up-fire-train-at-keddie-wye/ (https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-photo-up-fire-train-at-keddie-wye/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/uq0fyw/firefighters_spray_water_from_union_pacific/?rdt=50798 (https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/uq0fyw/firefighters_spray_water_from_union_pacific/?rdt=50798)
https://railfan.com/wildfires-keep-fire-trains-busy-out-west/
If you've gotten this far, thanks for following along.
This was just a brief and sketchy look at the fire suppression efforts put forth by the logging and lumbering industry in the hay days of western pine forest logging and what is still being done today.
All of this information is just background for my latest modeling efforts, creating a fire train for the South Fork Timber Company.
Up next the model build, hopefully coming soon.
OK, The model build. This has so many starting points it is difficult to know where to begin.
I think the first thing is a picture of a locomotive that just cried out to be built.
diesel2.jpeg
I saw this posted on another train forum and immediately printed it and sought more information. I found a couple more pictures but no information concerning it's location, owners, or usage. So into my someday file it went.
Not too much later the Annual Build Challenge was announced on Large Scale Centrals forum. I know this has been mentioned on these pages in the past but to bring everyone up to speed the annual Challenge is announced every January to forum members to help shake off the winter doldrums of not being able to work outdoors on your railroad.
In a nutshell a subject for the build is announced and you have 30 days to build it with a budget of 30 dollars and anything you have on hand to use. Napkin drawings must be presented and progress photos must be posted. In the end forum members vote on their favorite build and the winner gets bragging rites for a whole year ;) ;D.
Last January the announcement was to build anything that rolled on rails. That beastly little loco immediately popped to mind. But could I build it in 30 days? Did I have the materials on hand to make it happen?
I started digging through scrap boxes and stored supplies and thought I might be able to pull it off.
So the build started. I won't bore you with all the details just throw in a few pictures and details to fill in the blanks.
The 10 wheeler Bachmann chassis I had on hand wasn't the perfectly correct wheel spacing but it is what I had on hand.
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Cutting the cylinders and rods away changed the whole look of the chassis.
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After the factory cast iron weight was removed enough 2 1/2 lb. lead sheet was distributed throughout the chassis to bring it back to within 2 ounces of factory weight for this locomotive. Believe me it wasn't easy getting it all in there.
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Enough for tonight, more to come.
Thanks for taking a look.
Rick
Rick,
now that is an interesting prototype! Looking forward to see more.
Cheers,
Volker
You certainly have no hesitation about accepting a difficult challenge. I suspect the finished model will only add to your confidence. -- Russ
A few more detail pictures of this 30 day build. This is all seat of the pants design as you go and adjust for miscalculations.
The pilot truck on the Bachmann G scale 10 wheeler is famous for derailments because of it's design flaws so I rebuilt it for better performance.
First I cut a couple of sections out to shorten the wheel base.
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I then epoxied it back together adding a steel rod for strength and weight.
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Here is a comparison of a stock pilot and my shortened version. It looks closer to the prototype and functions very well.
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I will add some more soon
Thanks for taking a look
Rick
Nice work. I always love when something not only looks better but works better. -- Russ
Continuing on with the hack job.
Here cutting out more of the chassis to accommodate the new platforms.
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Starting the buildup of the new pilot area.
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The rear pilot beam and coupler built up and installed.
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The front pilot beam being test fitted to the pilot deck.IMG_1038 (1024x768).jpg
Any work tinkering with a locomotive always interests me, especially when it's well done like this one.
Good morning, time for an other installment.
Next I needed to get a start on the engine. The proto picture shows a Holt gas engine, I didn't have time to research and plan that build so I went with a Cat 60 gas engine because I had built a couple of them in the past so it felt more doable considering the time squeeze. Besides Holt and Best tractor companies merged and formed the Caterpillar Company in the 1920's so close enough.
One of my Cat 60 builds.
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Starting the engine block, PVC pipe, styrene and wood form the base.
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Started filling the frame with lead sheet while it was still accessible this was necessary especially in the front so I could build the engine mounts. When the build was complete it came within 2 ounces of the stock engines weight, pretty close
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Reached the 4 picture max so more later.
Thanks for taking a look
Rick
Would like to see more images of that engine!
MJinTN
More pictures of the Cat engine build will be along soon.
But for today we change gears again.
The motor mounts and headlight mounts were test fit and seem to work.
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The fuel tank/speaker enclosure was built up using Styrene, wood and brass rod.
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That's it for now.
Nice, clean work. The project is coming along nicely. -- Russ
In case anyone was wondering, this is the reason for the speaker.
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I have 4 rail trucks and a couple of gas/mechanical locos that all use this battery/RC trail car. I have built several different covers that match the truck or loco it is powering. I will have to build a new one to go with this gas loco, probably a pump and monitor car.
Built the main deck and the transmission or transfer case, which ever you want to call it.The chain drive goes to gearing that powers the drivers.
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Set up the drive line from the flywheel to the transmission and checked all the alignments.
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Back on the gas engine next time.
Rick
I hope you win first prize. -- Russ
OK, as promised some more engine shots as it progressed.
Roughing in the cylinders and water pump assemblies.IMG_1056 (1024x768).jpg
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The radiator and shroud.
IMG_1054 (1024x768).jpg
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More to come.
Excellent construction!!!
More info on the engine construction if possible
Radiator is perfect!
MJinTN
A few more pictures of the progress and at this point I only had about 6-7 days left to finish the build.
Finishing up the engine and the radiator mounting.IMG_1063 (1024x768).jpg
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Tied the main platform and the radiator platform together with the running boards.
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Next we built the main part of the "cab" and got it ready to install.
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Getting closer to the finish of the loco build but we still have the rest of the train to cobble together.
Stay tuned.
You must be working on that thing ten hours a day! It's shaping up nicely. -- Russ
The final assembly of the major parts of this beast.
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Next will be the pictures of the completed, engine?
Thanks for following along so far, more to come.
I would be surprised if you don't earn a ribbon with that beast. It's unique, credible, well detailed, and created with very good modeling skills. Looking forward to photos of the finished model. -- Russ
Thanks Russ,
No ribbons, trophy's or cash rewards available.
First through 3rd place are awarded by popular vote
and involve nothing but bragging rights till the next Challenge Build.
That is one sexy ugly duckling😍
Well done!
MJinTN
Some pictures of the finished loco.
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Next will be a few closeups of the loco then we move on to the rest of the cars.
I hope you win. -- Russ
Well its defiantly different ! and very pleasing and as they they "variety is the spice of life"
just keep it coming more please
Barney
That last picture is great!
Congratulations
MJinTN
Thanks for the comments guys, it is appreciated.
Some final shots of the loco.
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Just for information.
I was able to finish the loco 2 days ahead of the deadline and it received the most votes for top spot in the 2025 Challenge Build, a pleasant surprise as there were a good many great builds last year.
The cars of the Fire Train will be covered next.
Rick
So you won. No surprise. -- Russ
Well done.
We started the fire train build using a couple of existing models.
First is the power trail car, that I already showed, that will need a new cover.
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Next up is a water pumper car that was built by a friend several years ago and was gifted to me shortly before his passing. It is a hand pump car and will be used to protect the back end of the train.
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Next is a model of Northwestern Pacific's Caboose #6007 that I built years back. With a little modification it will make an excellent crew car for the consist.
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And of course the head end power will be provided by this beast. I thought it would be a perfect engine for the fire train because the crew would not have to keep a steam loco fired up and ready 24-7 all fire season. Just run out spin the flywheel and it's ready to go, well that is, if the damned ole rust bucket will start.
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Building will start next chapter with the trail power car cover.
Rick
Good morning, another update.
The start of the shell for the water cannon car that covers the trailing power car.
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With the basic shell complete the hand rails were started. Also in the picture is the start of the water tank car which will be the next build covered.
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Hand rails and ladders were built up using .063 brass brazing rod and soft soldered together, not fancy but should do the job.
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Railings are test fitted to the car top, they are made to be removable for future work and painting.
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That's it for now, Thanks for taking a look.
Rick
Nice work on the handrails. -- Russ
Some more on the water cannon car.
The metal roof deck and the water cannons roughed in.
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The basic painting finished.
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Laying out and building the wood decking.
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The car assembled and ready for details.
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We will see the finish of this car in the next installment.
Thanks for taking a look.
Rick
Nice work.
Some views of the finished trail (water cannon) car.
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Next we will show the tank car build.
Thanks for following along.
Rick
It turned out well and looks appropriate behind the loco. -- Russ
What battery do you use for these dead rail motors?
MJinTN
I use Lithium ion packs at 14.4 volts like the link shows and usually from this supplier because I know they have all the safe guards built in.
https://rldhobbies.com/batteries-chargers/batteries/
The tank car build was pretty straight forward.
I got lazy and started with a under frame and trucks from an old reefer.
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Bolted on a 1/4 inch plywood under deck then added side and end sills.
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the ply was covered with individual boards glued in place then KD couplers were added. The tank form is a piece of 3 inch PVC drain pipe.
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This picture was shown before but fits here also. The PVC pipe was wrapped with Redwood strips and the ends capped with Styrene sheet. The tank ends will be covered in wood strips also.
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More later.
Rick
Good start. -- Russ
More on the tank car.
The tank cleaned up, sanded smooth and fitted to the bunks on the flat.
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Here the tank car is basically finished except for a little weathering.
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The open deck area is where the engine,radiator,pump and piping will mount.
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A "stove bolt six" from an old Chevy kit by Hubley paired with a scratched radiator.
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More later.
Rick
The tank car and pump finished up, nothing left to this project but the railings on the caboose/crew car.
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I will post a video link of the train in operation but no fires :)
Well this winds up the Fire Train project.
The fire train passing through Hyampom on its way to a small fire at the Louse Creek crossing.
Most satisfactory. -- Russ
Great video!!
Thanks for sharing.
MJinTN
THE McVAY LOADER
Thanks for taking a look at my last posted build. Here is another one I did a few years back.
After accidently discovering my first loader I knew I had to build one so the research started.
Just what is a McVay loader. Basically it is a lightweight truck mounted winch and boom system for loading log trucks in the woods.
Here is a line drawing of the basic concept.
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The early units were all built on the Mack AC "Bulldog" trucks but later as the Mack's became more difficult to obtain the loaders were mounted on other brands of trucks like Sterling, White and even GMC's. These loading machines were cheap to buy, easy to transport and operate, quick to set up, and could usually be repaired in the woods with a Crescent wrench and a hammer thus making them ideal for the small operator.
The earliest McVay Loader, soon commonly known as a "Jammer", was built in 1929 but the real production kicked off in 1934. Between 1929 and 1957 fifty two Jammers were built in the small two man shop in Klamath Falls, Oregon.
The Jammers were very popular in the Southern Oregon, Northern California pine and Fir forests from the early 1930's to the late 1950's. This is in an era that was swiftly moving away from railroad logging and turning to truck hauling for logs.
The machines, especially the later ones, used some interesting technology for the day like a hydraulic system for boom swing. The early Jammers mounted on the Mack trucks used the truck engine and transmission to power the drums by removing the chain drive to the wheels and reattaching it to the drum set. Later models used a second engine to power the drums and hydraulics.
My research has only turned up five of these units still with us which is quite a few considering the circumstances of their existence. Only fifty two units were ever built, they saw hard and rough usage and the advent of newer and better machine systems made them old and obsolete, not worth hauling out of the woods.
Here is a list of the McVay "Jammers" and their locations That I am currently aware of.
First is the one located at Roots of Motive power, Willets, CA . This is an early Mack AC "Bulldog" truck with McVay loader Construction #3 built in 1936 mounted on it.
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Roots of Motive Power web site https://rootsofmotivepower.com/
Next are the ones located at the Collier Logging Museum in Chiloquin, OR.
First up is Construction number 11 claimed to be built in 1946. As it survives it shows a Mack Chassis and drive train but has been bastardized with a Ford flat head engine and Ford cab parts.
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If you want to see what it is supposed to look like go back and check the line drawing, that is how it was built.
The next one at Collier is construction number 12. Not much information available on this one.
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Continuing,
The builders plate of #12
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Last but not least is construction number 31A, built in 1957. This unit is reportedly the second to last one built by McVay. The loader was mounted on a GMC diesel truck and a Ford engine on the deck operated the boom and tower.
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Collier Museum web site
https://www.google.com/search?q=collier+logging+museum&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS999US999&oq=collier+logging+museum&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgAECMYJxiABBiKBTIMCAAQIxgnGIAEGIoFMg0IARAuGK8BGMcBGIAEMgcIAhAAGIAEMggIAxAAGBYYHjIICAQQABgWGB4yCAgFEAAYFhgeMggIBhAAGBYYHjIICAcQABgWGB4yCAgIEAAYFhgeMg0ICRAAGIYDGIAEGIoF0gEJOTI5NGowajE1qAIIsAIB8QULlgVbyss8sQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Next the loader located at the small museum in Trail, Oregon, it is construction number 10 and is mounted on a 1913 Mack AC Bulldog truck. This is the most complete unit I was able to locate and is the one I photographed and measured for my build.
That's the brief history of this unique machine and a look at the survivors from an industry that has all but passed away.
Disclaimer. The construction numbers and their corresponding dates make no sense to me but this is what my research has uncovered.
Next up will be the build of my McVay loader.
This will be another neat build.
Nice choice. Let's see how it turns out. -- Russ
Very Nice and different
Barney
To mount a finished McVay Loader I first needed a truck.
I had this kit tucked away for years because I really love the old Mack AC "bulldog" trucks. Unfortunately it is in 1:24 and I build everything in 1:20 scale but I always had some vague idea of using it as a pattern to build from.
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The second piece of the puzzle, so to speak, was the line drawing with measurements I found in the TimberBeast magazine.
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Before starting the loader I have to build the whole truck. I used the Monogram kit as a set of blue prints and measured each piece and scaled it up to 1:20 then built it. Keeping in mind each sub assembly has to be readily removable for painting then re-assembly. This actually turned into a much larger and more difficult project than I had anticipated.
Here we have the main frame side rails and cross members all built up from Styrene shapes. As you can see the truck is over 11 inches long. ha big surprise coming later about that.
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Starting to assemble the frame. The tires and wheels are for model airplanes but the tires were the correct size for this truck.
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More to come
Thanks for taking a look.
I immediately understood why this would be such a huge project. Recreating kit parts in a different scale from scratch is no joke. -- Russ
Some more pictures of the build.
The combination transmission/differential that was used on the chain drive Mack's is shown here in the next two views. It was built up from Redwood blocks, Styrene, nails and bolts. I intentionally left the finish a little rough to simulate cast casings.
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Here is a couple of shots of the tran/diff sitting on the 1:24 model.
I have found that I have had to partially assemble the kit model in order to get the
right measurements and proportions to build from.
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Another progress report.
Here we have the frame partially assembled and the trans/diff mounted in place with the shift linkage installed (the brass rod in the center of the frame). Also some of the brake linkage is installed along the outside of the frame members (brass rods). The spring hanger shackle bolts are HO scale track nails cut to length, seem to work pretty well.
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Another view of the same boring thing. I know the shift linkage rod looks like it is on a angle, that's because it is, I don't know why it was done that way.
The wheels are from the 1:24 kit, I found the tires, that look like pneumatic tires in the model airplane section of the LHS . This combination brought them within 1 inch of scale so I thought that was close enough.
Just as an aside the early Mack's came with solid hard rubber tires, but all the pictures and references I could find indicate that these were changed out to air filled pneumatic tires at the earliest possible time. Since my 1926 Mack is being modeled in a 1939 time slot I took the liberty of doing it that way.
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Just a little detail shot of the rear end area, believe me it took a while to build those springs.
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More later, thanks for taking a look.
Rick
Nice job. That frame has a lot of little parts and must have taken some time. -- Russ
Enjoying this and learning some tricks.
Thank you!
MJinTN
Rick, Thanks for posting. It's impressive to look at.
Thanks for the input guys, here is some more progress shots.
The engine and drive line are completed and mounted in the frame and the front frame cross member completed.
Sorry about the poor picture.
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The engine was built up from Redwood blocks, Styrene, wire and brass pieces. The engine mounting in these old Mack's is kind of interesting. The engine hangs from large steel pins centered front and back and just kind of swings there, the drive line being the only thing that keeps it kind of centered. You can see the front pin (brass rod just behind the black water hose) and the hanger assembly mounted into the frame. Of course 69 horse power at 1400 rpm probably doesn't produce a lot of movement in an engine of this mass and weight
The water pump/magneto assembly along with the starting crank handle I used from the original kit. Although a scale difference, it is hardly noticeable once installed. The motor and trans/differential have been painted and lightly weathered waiting final assembly for touch up paint and final weathering.
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Same stuff, different view although here you can see the steering arm linkage that hooks to the front hub and tie rod assembly.
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That's it for now, thanks for taking a look
Rick
Time for a few more photos of the progress as it was made.
The running boards and fenders are roughed in and the floor boards built. The seat box is an empty space that will be filled with lead to give the model some "heft" and help counter balance the weight of the boom assembly.
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The fenders are done and the seat built and painted. The brass mounting bracket is sandwiched between layers of the running boards to give them strength and is attached to the frame. Screws will go up through it to attach the cab assembly at a later time.
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The firewall/radiator assembly is completed and being test fit. The assembly is hollow and is filled with small pieces of lead sheet to help weight the front of the model because of the boom assembly that will be sticking out the rear.
Also I cut the radiator grills off the 1:24 model and mounted them on this model, maybe just a smidgin small but not bad and sure easier than trying to build something.
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The dashboard side of the assembly showing the gauge mounting holes, only 2 instruments in the dash. The arched cutout in the bottom center of the dash is to allow the hand brake lever (coming up from the floor boards) to go far enough forward to fully engage. Remember back in the day brakes were all mechanical so you needed a long stick to get the leverage required to make the system work.
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More to come, thanks for taking a look.
The more you build, the more impressive it looks. -- Russ
Nice - I like it
Barney
Excellent!
The engine looks real! (Good).
How did you shape the fenders?
MJinTN
Quote from: lab-dad on March 31, 2026, 03:23:31 PMExcellent!
The engine looks real! (Good).
How did you shape the fenders?
MJinTN
Not sure I really remember it was a few years and many builds ago. But I imagine it was with difficulty. :)
If I may plagerize Russ for a moment, all is looking quite satisfactory!
Stuart
Stuart, I hope you realize there's a substantial plagiarization fee for using my copyrighted material. An invoice shall be forthcoming. -- ssuR
Time for an update.
Getting a start on the cab assembly, seems lots of these old trucks no matter the name brand used the basic "C" cab design. Must have been the fad of its time like tail fins or suicide doors. Speaking of doors the doors on this cab pull up from the bottom to the height of the firewall. I don't know why they bothered because except for the windshield and rear cab window the whole rest of the cab was open to the weather.
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Using the Monogram model as a blueprint suddenly bit me in the butt. I realized that the frame was way too short to mount the loader assembly on. Obvious solution, lengthen the frame.
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After many months of working on this project I became pretty lax in documenting the progress so from now to the finish the picture progress gets a little skimpy.
Thanks for following along.
Rick
What you have shown so far represents a lot of work and research. Forming credible looking styrene parts by hand isn't easy. Progress to this point has been satisfactory. -- Russ
Some more progress shots.
The cab structure is about complete in this shot, many small details yet to be built and installed.
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Setting up the chain drive assembly from the transmission/differential to the wheel hubs.
All the chain and sprockets were ordered from the INCH Drive Components catalog.
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That's all for now.
Looking Good - I have been there many times You think it out - you plan it and then think something
wrong here ! But it looks like its all sorted now and coming along lovely
Barney
The cab turned out spectacular!
MJinTN
The finished chassis.
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The next batch of progress picts.
The cab and chassis are complete and I had started on the loader platform.
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getting close to the end now.
That's well done!
Looks like it could end up a potential prize winner -- Russ
A couple of pictures of the loader deck under construction.
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At this point I became lazy about the build log so we will jump to finished model in the next posted pictures.
I always enjoy reading your great posts!