Hi all, I have been a member here for many years but hardly ever post because my style/type of modeling hardly fits in with the superb fine detail modeling generally presented here.
However in a recent email exchange with Russ he suggested that the members here might be interested in my efforts at modeling. so we will post a little background info and follow with some clips and build details and see how the interest holds up.
I model a fictional short line RR, the Shasta Pacific, and a logging line the South Fork Timber Company in 1:20.3 scale, outdoors. Not a typical "Garden Railroad" it is all built on benchwork at table top height and no gardening involved.
All locomotives are onboard battery with RC and sound and all switches are manual ground throw because you walk along with your train during switching operations.
I did post a short video of a train at the mill last Spring see here:
https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=3285.0
Here is another, a little longer on the other side of the mill complex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaO7YJtW_EI&ab_channel=ShastaPacificGardenRailroad
Hopefully these links are hot, if not go to my YouTube channel and check out my vast collection of videos, all 3 of them :)
Ups, look here https://www.youtube.com/@Tinbender
If there is an interest I will post pictures from a few builds I have done for this project over the years.
Thanks for taking a look
Rick
Sure, as for myself I would enjoy seeing more of your outdoor railroad empire. I particularly like the natural lighting of your scenes. It seems that the bench top height of your railroad provides easier access to photography and video making.
That's some pretty good stuff. Missed it first time around, thanks for the new posting. Don't worry, it's inspirational, we all need an input and great thanks for yours. Lots of crane/derricks which I'm working on at the moment so it's been a real help.
Les Tindall
Post some photos, too. I think everybody will be interested. -- Russ
Hi Mr Norcalloger - Now come on you do some wonderful inspirational work and we want more with plenty of updates on projects
Please more
Barney
Did this work
Well it seemed to, at least I got this picture to post, I about gave up in frustration trying to get an image to post.
I wrote a sticky about how to post photos when we changed the forum software. If you need it in the future to remind yourself what you did, go here: . Scroll down to December 21, 2022 and you'll see it. But your photo looks fine and clicking on it brings up a larger image. -- Russ (https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=3.0)
Thanks Russ.
How do you insert more than one picture per post and what is the maximum or ideal picture size?
When you add a photo, the forum software tells you how large it is and how many megabytes remain in that post. Add those two numbers together for the maximum photo size. There is no ideal size and I have found it possible to limit a photo to around 250-300 kilobytes at about 100 dpi and about 7" width yet it will look very good. Anything larger may not make much difference but might let you get away with less editing hassle before you upload your photos. -- Russ
This little railcar has been on my someday list for a very long time. It ran on rails that later became the Arcata and Mad River Railroad in far Northern California. What made it unique in this part of the world is that it ran on a track gauge of 45 inches.
Building it for my railroad I had to reduce the gauge to 36 inches which created a problem with the wheel and axel placement as you can see. It is a static model built to 1:20.3 scale for display on my outdoor railroad. Remember it is built for outdoor display so the detail etc. is not as fine as you are use to on this forum.
Rick
Very cool!
Perfectly acceptable for this forum and quite satisfactory. -- Russ
A nice little machine and a nicely built model
Barney
Kind of quiet in here this week.
Here is another video shot at the mill yard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojueMF-OTQ0&t=1s&ab_channel=ShastaPacificGardenRailroad
That could almost pass for 1:1 scale. Nice video.
And, yes, it has been dismally quiet here for the past week or so.
Russ
Very Nice in fact exceptional !!
Barney
Awesome video! Is the caboose scratchbuilt, kit, or something else?
Thanks guys,
Ray the caboose is from a Don Winter's "scratchkit", if anyone is familiar with his kits they will understand the term. Of course I modified it some and added a full interior.
Great video, the sunlight filtering through the trees along with superb models - brill.
Les
Can't believe it has been a year since I last posted anything to this thread. I have been busy on the railroad and will try to include a couple of pictures.
The Fields Hotel, scratch built from 1/4 inch PVC board, Styrene and wood. I used commercial window frames and roof shingles.
Let's see how these pictures come out.
Well that's interesting. My original pictures are crystal clear but end up looking fuzzy when inserted to the posting, but if you click to enlarge they appear much clearer.
Anyway
If you ever lived in Northern or Central California between the 1920's and the 1960's you may remember a grocery store chain called PURITY STORES, The store chain is long gone now but some of their unique quonset hut style buildings still exist but have been repurposed.
I decided I needed one for my new town of Fields Landing so this is what I ended up with. The design had to be slightly modified to fit the space available but hopefully it looks close to the prototype.
An interesting side note; as I was researching this company I learned that in the 1920's one of the major stockholders in the Purity Stores was a man named Cummins who also owned a diesel engine building business that was really struggling to make it.
He came up with the idea of installing his engines in the Purity delivery trucks and as they say the rest is history.
Anyone following this thread MUST enlarge the images. Most satisfactory. No wonder it took you a year to get back to us. Thank you for posting those inspirational photos. -- Russ
Great work!
Where did you get the payphone?
Hi Ray, thanks.
The Pay Phone was scratch built that's why no closeup pictures ;D
Well it sure looks good in the long shots.
All very nice and very neat workmanship
Barney
Here is a building I finished about a year ago. A meat Market that was named for my Dad who was a Meat Cutter/Butcher all his working life.
All scratch built from 1/4 inch PVC board, wood, Styrene and a few other things. There are a few commercial parts that are easily spotted such as NBW's and Styrene shapes.
All the angle iron and bolt plates are because the Seismic bracing upgrades have been completed on this old masonry building. This is/was necessary because of it's location on the Northern California Coast.
Here are a few night lighting shots of the interior.
Beautiful! The roof details are especially nice and add a lot of interest to an often overlooked (literally and figuratively) area.
Hi Rick
,I love your builds please post more it is a good mix here
Cheers Kim
Been a while since I posted on this thread so thought I would show you what I have been up to this year.
First the new log landing. The table was extended and the scene developed.
The spar tree with the heel boom rack is the center piece.
A few pictures.
Your modeling is far too good to remain outdoors. Satisfactory. -- Russ
Thanks for the kind words Russ.
To prevent any misunderstanding the "models" only remain outdoors during operating sessions in the seasons of kinder, gentler weather.
The larger items, in this case the spar tree, rigging, track etc. remain out year round.
Well the above posting was so successful I think I will ho-hum you a little more :)
A modeling project that has been on the back burner for several years is the development of a Fire Train for the South Fork Timber Co.
What is a fire train? Glad you asked.
What follows is a brief history of fire in the logging woods and what the logging companies did about it.
FIRE TRAINS
Fire was always a huge problem for the logging and lumbering companies in the arid Pine forests of California and Oregon. A forest fire was almost inevitable during the Summer months in any logging operation from the 1880's to the 1950's in these dry mountains. Forest fire in the West is still a major problem and concern, the difference between then and now is, that back then, logging crews were in the woods with man power and equipment ready and willing to attack any fire outbreak. Granted a great majority of the fires were started by the logging and railroad equipment no matter how careful the crews tried to be. The fact is they were already on the ground and could usually control any fire outbreak before it could become what we know now days as a conflagration, consuming hundreds of thousands of acres.
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Photo from Tim Purdy's book Fruit Growers Supply Company
I suppose I must, at this time, insert a disclaimer.
This is not about politics or governmental policies, just history, so please don't take it there, thank you.
By the early 1920's many large logging/lumbering companies in Northern California and Southern Oregon had huge financial investments in timber land as well as mills, railroads, and crews to harvest, process and sell these trees converted to lumber to build this nation. Fire was the last thing in the world they wanted to see happen, the loss of timber, the cost of man power to fight any fires and the cost of equipment to do so was a huge drain on their profits and after all that's what they were there for, profit.
But fire happened and better ways to fight and control the outbreaks were needed. Many of the larger companies set up special crews and equipment and conducted training of their logging crews so they could be better prepared to handle the fires. Some starting with just ground crews using shovels and saws to get a jump on the flames. Some started transporting fire trucks on flat cars to be brought into the fire areas and help control the flames. Of course equipment and techniques advanced, loggers being the innovative men they were, came up with bigger and better ideas.
There is no way of knowing where and when the first official "fire train" was put into operation and we must also consider what was a "fire train". Some say it was fire fighting pumper trucks loaded on flat cars and pushed into the woods by a locomotive to the location of the fire, a good thought but realize they had very limited ability. Their biggest problem was the small amount of water they were able to carry and the range of their effectiveness. Others say it was the steam pump mounted on the pilot of a locomotive pumping water from the tender out a high pressure hose to douse fires, we can see how this would be self defeating.
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Both photos from the book Pino Grande by R.S. Polkinghorn
End of chapter one, more to come.
Well this is going over really well ::) But I committed to it so will continue.
Let's call this chapter 2
Tim Purdy in his book Fruit Growers Supply Company talks about the danger and destruction of fire in the woods and ways that were used to fight and prevent fires.
"On Monday July 28, 1924, the worst forest fire in the history of the Lassen Operation erupted, this one caused by sparks from a steam donkey operating between Camps D and F. With the extremely dry conditions and winds fanning the flames, it quickly burned out of control. In less than an hour the blaze turned into a firestorm, spreading over four miles and destroying three steam donkey engines, eight railroad flat cars, one water tank car and about three miles of railroad track.
Initially 575 men fought the blaze. Red River Lumber sent 110 men to assist. A crew from the Lassen Lumber and Box arrived later, delayed by another fire south of Susanville,
Camp D narrowly escaped destruction, saved only by men on each cabin rooftop extinguishing the burning embers as they landed. Luckily, despite the intensity of the fire, there were no major injuries. But before it was over, 7000 acres of Antelope Mountain had burned. Fruit Growers pocket book was hard hit. Suppressing the fire cost $34,378.20."
"It was then that Fruit growers abandoned the standard method of fire prevention, piling and burning brush and slash after the logs were removed. They adopted a new method, building a series of fire lanes. The fire lanes were 100 feet wide and completely void of vegetation, each encircling 100 acre sections of timber. They were formed by a special V-drag hooked to a 60 Caterpillar tractor which could clear up to six miles of fire lanes a day. The lanes not only served as firebreaks, they also provided quick access. Now, 70 years later, the early firebreaks are still visible although the practice was abandoned in the 1940's.
After each 100 acre area was logged, all the dead trees, or snags were felled, because if left standing, they posed a fire hazard. Once the snags were felled, however, they again became potential fuel, this time on the forest floor. After the first substantial snowfall, the fire crew burned the snags.
During the fire season two crews of eight to ten men worked as fire prevention teams. It was their job to build fire lines, oversee brush and slash piling, remove dead snags and maintain telephone lines. After this 1924 fire Fruit Growers established and maintained a fire lookout on Antelope Mountain."
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Photo from Tim Purdy's book Fruit Growers Supply Co.
By the end of 1932, the 178 miles of fire lanes constructed over 26,000 acres had proved very effective. Even though three of the six years it took to build them were critical fire years, only 53 acres burned. From 1925 to 1940 prevention cost $40,373.54, fire fighting costs only $7,546.65."
Another result of this 1924 fire was a law suit brought against Fruit Growers for damages to the National Forest. As a result Fruit Growers established a tree nursery next to the mill in Susanville and agreed to plant 20,000 acres of seedlings on National Forest land. This fire also accelerated the conversion to tractor logging getting the steam donkeys out of the woods further reducing future fire hazards.
End of chapter two, more to come.
Well I guess we can call this chapter 3.
Very soon what we now think of as a fire train was born, tank cars feeding water to car top mounted water cannons with greater range and almost unlimited water supply.
Perhaps the most famous "fire train," and most photographed, was put into operation by the Red River Lumber Company of Westwood, California in the mid 1920's.
The Red River Company was a leading innovator in the logging and lumbering industry; being among the first to introduce Cat tractor logging and making major improvements to the machines, The use and development of the tracked logging arch was another of their firsts. Electric powered donkeys, chain saws and locomotives in the woods was researched and developed, refrigerator cars for transport and storage of foods at the outlaying camps were just a few of their ideas put into practice.
With this kind of innovative spirit it is no wonder that they developed such an effective system to fight wild fires. I will quote the development of this train from Robert Hanft's book, "Red River, Paul Bunyan's Own Lumber Company and It's Railroads."
"A May 1924 fire hastened creation of a Red River fire fighting innovation. Around noon on the 26th a fire started in slashing between the location of Camp 34 and 36. The Camp 34 men stopped regular work immediately and hastened to the fire front. Theodore Walker (member of the owning family) and Walter Luff loaded a steam powered fire truck onto a railroad flat car, hooked on four tank cars full of water, and hurried to the fire front with their special train, extra men and tools. By midnight the fire was under control, having been confined to about 40 acres of cut over land. After the weary men had returned to their beds, Theodore Walker turned his attention to devising a more efficient fire control system, and came up with Red River's justly famed fire train.
Heart of the fire train was a box car converted to a pump unit. It was equipped with two high pressure monitor nozzles on the roof, mounted close to the edge to enable nearly vertical flooding. A metallic hose was carried coiled on the roof and could be coupled to the steam dome on any Red River locomotive, which furnished the power supply. Inside the asbestos covered car a 150 horsepower steam engine drove a centrifugal pump. Water supply was assured by a tank car of 10,000 gallons capacity adjacent to each end of the pump car, kept filled and coupled on. Suction to the pump was via a line from the bottom of the tankers, but hose connections were provided to take water from the dome of any other tank car. Axes, shovels, saws and other tools were carried, together with more than a thousand feet of hose to reach well beyond the train itself or the range of it's monitors."
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This next picture is tagged on at the end, for some reason it didn't want to play by the rules.
Photos from Robert Hanft's book Red River
"The fire train could serve anywhere Red River rails reached and in addition was loaned to the call of other fire crews along the tracks of the Southern Pacific, or that of other nearby logging concerns. It served so well that another similar unit was constructed at a later date. The steam pump Was eventually replaced by one powered with a gasoline engine, eliminating the need for cumbersome hook up or requiring the locomotive to remain with the fire car at all times."
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Picture and caption from the book "The Modoc, Southern Pacific's back door to Oregon" By Tom Dill and Jack Bowden
The second generation fire fighting car.
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Photo from Robert Hanft's book Red River
Thanks for taking a look.
More to come.
Interesting project. Do you plan on making it operational for outside?
Small instrumentation pumps would fit in large scale cars.
Regards
Marty J (the other Marty)
Great info!
I read every Timber Times and never came across a "fire train"
Thanks for posting.
Marty J we should talk!
Since we share initials and hobbies.
MJinTN
Yes, Timber Times was a great mag. I have issue 1 through 59 in my library and enjoy rereading them and looking for ideas.
I was lucky enough to have them use a few of my submissions.
Chapter 4
A very short one.
Fire trains are still very much a part of our Western railroading culture as can be seen in the following picture and short video clips.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-photo-up-fire-train-at-keddie-wye/ (https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-photo-up-fire-train-at-keddie-wye/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/uq0fyw/firefighters_spray_water_from_union_pacific/?rdt=50798 (https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/uq0fyw/firefighters_spray_water_from_union_pacific/?rdt=50798)
https://railfan.com/wildfires-keep-fire-trains-busy-out-west/
If you've gotten this far, thanks for following along.
This was just a brief and sketchy look at the fire suppression efforts put forth by the logging and lumbering industry in the hay days of western pine forest logging and what is still being done today.
All of this information is just background for my latest modeling efforts, creating a fire train for the South Fork Timber Company.
Up next the model build, hopefully coming soon.
OK, The model build. This has so many starting points it is difficult to know where to begin.
I think the first thing is a picture of a locomotive that just cried out to be built.
diesel2.jpeg
I saw this posted on another train forum and immediately printed it and sought more information. I found a couple more pictures but no information concerning it's location, owners, or usage. So into my someday file it went.
Not too much later the Annual Build Challenge was announced on Large Scale Centrals forum. I know this has been mentioned on these pages in the past but to bring everyone up to speed the annual Challenge is announced every January to forum members to help shake off the winter doldrums of not being able to work outdoors on your railroad.
In a nutshell a subject for the build is announced and you have 30 days to build it with a budget of 30 dollars and anything you have on hand to use. Napkin drawings must be presented and progress photos must be posted. In the end forum members vote on their favorite build and the winner gets bragging rites for a whole year ;) ;D.
Last January the announcement was to build anything that rolled on rails. That beastly little loco immediately popped to mind. But could I build it in 30 days? Did I have the materials on hand to make it happen?
I started digging through scrap boxes and stored supplies and thought I might be able to pull it off.
So the build started. I won't bore you with all the details just throw in a few pictures and details to fill in the blanks.
The 10 wheeler Bachmann chassis I had on hand wasn't the perfectly correct wheel spacing but it is what I had on hand.
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Cutting the cylinders and rods away changed the whole look of the chassis.
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After the factory cast iron weight was removed enough 2 1/2 lb. lead sheet was distributed throughout the chassis to bring it back to within 2 ounces of factory weight for this locomotive. Believe me it wasn't easy getting it all in there.
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Enough for tonight, more to come.
Thanks for taking a look.
Rick
Rick,
now that is an interesting prototype! Looking forward to see more.
Cheers,
Volker
You certainly have no hesitation about accepting a difficult challenge. I suspect the finished model will only add to your confidence. -- Russ
A few more detail pictures of this 30 day build. This is all seat of the pants design as you go and adjust for miscalculations.
The pilot truck on the Bachmann G scale 10 wheeler is famous for derailments because of it's design flaws so I rebuilt it for better performance.
First I cut a couple of sections out to shorten the wheel base.
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I then epoxied it back together adding a steel rod for strength and weight.
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Here is a comparison of a stock pilot and my shortened version. It looks closer to the prototype and functions very well.
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I will add some more soon
Thanks for taking a look
Rick
Nice work. I always love when something not only looks better but works better. -- Russ
Continuing on with the hack job.
Here cutting out more of the chassis to accommodate the new platforms.
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Starting the buildup of the new pilot area.
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The rear pilot beam and coupler built up and installed.
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The front pilot beam being test fitted to the pilot deck.IMG_1038 (1024x768).jpg
Any work tinkering with a locomotive always interests me, especially when it's well done like this one.
Good morning, time for an other installment.
Next I needed to get a start on the engine. The proto picture shows a Holt gas engine, I didn't have time to research and plan that build so I went with a Cat 60 gas engine because I had built a couple of them in the past so it felt more doable considering the time squeeze. Besides Holt and Best tractor companies merged and formed the Caterpillar Company in the 1920's so close enough.
One of my Cat 60 builds.
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Starting the engine block, PVC pipe, styrene and wood form the base.
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(1024x768).jpg
Started filling the frame with lead sheet while it was still accessible this was necessary especially in the front so I could build the engine mounts. When the build was complete it came within 2 ounces of the stock engines weight, pretty close
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Reached the 4 picture max so more later.
Thanks for taking a look
Rick
Would like to see more images of that engine!
MJinTN
More pictures of the Cat engine build will be along soon.
But for today we change gears again.
The motor mounts and headlight mounts were test fit and seem to work.
IMG_1041 (1024x768).jpg
The fuel tank/speaker enclosure was built up using Styrene, wood and brass rod.
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That's it for now.
Nice, clean work. The project is coming along nicely. -- Russ
In case anyone was wondering, this is the reason for the speaker.
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I have 4 rail trucks and a couple of gas/mechanical locos that all use this battery/RC trail car. I have built several different covers that match the truck or loco it is powering. I will have to build a new one to go with this gas loco, probably a pump and monitor car.
Built the main deck and the transmission or transfer case, which ever you want to call it.The chain drive goes to gearing that powers the drivers.
IMG_1050 (1024x768).jpg
Set up the drive line from the flywheel to the transmission and checked all the alignments.
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Back on the gas engine next time.
Rick
I hope you win first prize. -- Russ
OK, as promised some more engine shots as it progressed.
Roughing in the cylinders and water pump assemblies.IMG_1056 (1024x768).jpg
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The radiator and shroud.
IMG_1054 (1024x768).jpg
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More to come.
Excellent construction!!!
More info on the engine construction if possible
Radiator is perfect!
MJinTN
A few more pictures of the progress and at this point I only had about 6-7 days left to finish the build.
Finishing up the engine and the radiator mounting.IMG_1063 (1024x768).jpg
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Tied the main platform and the radiator platform together with the running boards.
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Next we built the main part of the "cab" and got it ready to install.
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Getting closer to the finish of the loco build but we still have the rest of the train to cobble together.
Stay tuned.