Based on glowing recc's online about the spray can of gloss Vallejo I sprayed some on a boxcar today and got a terrible result. Not smooth and even at all. It didn't run but dried very uneven. This was done to prepare the car for decals.
Anyone know how I can remove it? Or am I sunk?
I've been wrangling gloss spray myself of late. Haven't used Vallejo in a can, but I have airbrushed their standard product.
In terms of removal, iso-propanol in an ultrasound bath seems to take off everything in around 60sec - etch primer, lacquer, enamel and acrylic. I imagine you don't want to go that far. Alcohol should remove acrylic, but likely to be messy.
Conventional wisdom would suggest that acrylic gloss should be a good base for weathering with enamel based paint, but I found the Vallejo was not resistant to enamel thinners (nor was Alclad lacquer). Even 'Future' (which I think is polyurethane) was not great. Current Humbrol thinners are pretty aggressive. White spirit a bit less so.
I've now gone to an auto lacquer clearcoat. My local supplier laughed at the quantity I was after and then gave me a few hundred ml for nicks - which was nice.
"Future" has changed names multiple times, so I'm no longer sure it's exactly the same formula it used to be. If it is the same, it's an acrylic finish.
Quote from: Bill Gill on March 05, 2023, 10:17:01 AM"Future" has changed names multiple times, so I'm no longer sure it's exactly the same formula it used to be. If it is the same, it's an acrylic finish.
Name wise I'm not sure, in this part of the world, if it was ever 'Future'. I have an unoriginal package of dubious provenance that seems to work OK. I vaguely recall reading something about the chemistry a while back, but on checking it certainly has been (and probably always was) acrylic.
Weird, I responded to this and it isn't showing up. I tried the IPA and it worked but took much longer than a minute, and as predicted it took all(most actually) of all the paint off. It left behind a really cool effect on the roof that I think I will try and preserve.
I think I will have to go back to my Tamiya gloss spray...it goes on nice and thin and levels out perfectly. Maybe it's too cold in my basement? About 65 f.
Thanks, oh and Future now goes by Pledge something...I can't find a reference. I've never used it, but I'd like to try as so many people use it.
Quote from: SandiaPaul on March 05, 2023, 02:16:01 PMWeird, I responded to this and it isn't showing up. I tried the IPA and it worked but took much longer than a minute, and as predicted it took all(most actually) of all the paint off. It left behind a really cool effect on the roof that I think I will try and preserve.
Thanks, oh and Future now goes by Pledge something...I can't find a reference. I've never used it, but I'd like to try as so many people use it.
A minute in the ultrasound bath - makes a huge difference.
Locally 'Pledge' has been a brand forever. I'm not sure it is, or has always been, the same a 'future' though.
I remember reading about Future and how Johnson Wax or whoever bought it and renamed it Pledge. Nobody ever clarified whether they changed the formula or if it's as good for modelers now as it used to be but some were critical of the new stuff as a floor polish. Maybe someday somebody here will resolve the question about its suitability for finishing models. -- Russ
Here is one mention
https://finescale.com/how-to/tips/2018/05/reader-tips-pledge-future-gloss-has-a-new-name
Curiosity got the best of me. I did a little searching to see what the latest name for "Future" might be and if there were changes to the formula. I went to the Johnson's website and surprisingly didn't find anything that sounded or looked like what was once "Future"! https://www.pledge.com/en-us/products
Searching elsewhere for "Pledge Floor Care" got a number of hits, some with surprising prices.
Amazon had a 27 oz bottle for $69.95 for 27 ounces of "Pledge Floor Care Multi-Surface Finish"!!!! Walmart had the same for $10.95
shopping-1.webp
I have a bottle from some years ago that looks like this (same name without the hyphen). I think it has been renamed once or twice since then. One site listed it as on sale for $18.95, normally $50.00
shopping-2.webp
I still have most of the bottle I bought for $6.95
Two things to note about what I have:
1.The stuff still in the bottle has definitely turned a bit yellow even though it has been stored away from direct light.
2. I tried using it to refresh the "water" on a stream on my layout and discovered several months later that it was not waterproof when I accidentally dripped a couple drops of water on it while working on nearby scenery. When I tried to blot one drop with the tip of a paper towel, the finish smeared. I left the other drops to evaporate and they dried with a mottled appearance.
During my search I found this product listed on Walmart site for $19.02 for 32 ounces: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lundmark-Super-Gloss-Acrylic-Extra-Heavy-Duty-Hard-Finish-Floor-Wax-32-Ounce-3202F32-6/973268201
c464aba4-15be-49a2-ad45-7ab4820680ed_1.97f1ac13e64a6cb51a25982482e0faa7.jpg
and on the Lundmark site found this ingredient listing:
So maybe we'd be better off buying a product specifically designed as a finish for scale models .... -- Russ
The big thing with 'Future' was for aircraft canopies, for which it was/is apparently superb. Use as a general gloss varnish works OK too, but as you say there are other solutions for that that might be as good or better without the uncertainties.
The big thing for me is not so much a good gloss finish which is relatively easy, but a finish resistant to subsequent weathering steps. I've personally pretty much settled on automotive lacquer pre and post decals.
So many are (and have been) using "Future" that I'm just curious...and many users are hardcore excellent modelers. Here is one example and I think the end results are excellent. I don't like the yellowing Bill reported...Note he is also painting with an unconventional model paint. His blog is great if you are into freight cars and modeling techniques. Ted wrote a series on freight cars for RMC for many years.
http://prototopics.blogspot.com/search/label/acrylic%20ink
Here's a quick shot of the Pledge Floorcare Multi Surface Finish I have. The different bottle is because the top on the original one cracked. As I mentioned above, the acrylic finish has been stored in a fairly dark spot, always out of direct sunlight. I bought the bottle about 8 years ago.It was water clear then.
I've used it as a thin gloss coat a few times before decaling some rolling stock. I've also used it as a refresher top coat for "water" that had dulled on my layout and as an extender for brush paintingcraft acrylics. The yellowing hasn't been apparent on any of the projects I've used it, but it sure isn't water clear anymore!
%22future%22 yellowed..jpeg
I also have used Future over the years as a base coat for decals. I use the same bottle used on the kitchen and bathroom floors. I clean up with non sudsing ammonia to clean both the floors and airbrushes. Never thought of using it to thin acrylic paints. I have used denatured alcohol to thin acrylics when I want a dead flat finish.
Lawton,
I don't have a place or budget for an airbrush. I make do with spray cans outside in good weather and use brush painting for the rest, so I'm always looking for ways to do it better.
One project for the NEB&W required stripping and repainting a boxcar to look like it had just been repainted and was in the process of getting restenciled. The only good color match I came up with used a couple craft store quality acrylics which didn't brush out as smoothly as needed. Alcohol curdled the craft paint, so I tried a little "Future"
Here's the comparison between a car with the original factory paint (left) and the one I brush painted (right).
That turned out reasonably well, didn't it? -- Russ
Bill:
Check out the new lower cost air brushes which are cross overs from women's makeup. They are self contained and charge with a USB cord plugged into a phone charger. Not super fine spray, but good enough for general use. Buy SWMBA one for her use and buy yourself one and she'll love how easy it is to apply makeup and not notice that you are using one in the man cave.
This discussion is morphing a little from my original question which is fine by me so I thought I would link to this excellent document. If you haven't seen and downloaded this, it is great source of information:
https://www.testors.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/Testors/ebook/MRH-Acrylic-painting-guide-post-Floquil-Portrait.ashx
Paul,
Looking back, your original question was how to remove Vallejo gloss spray. I apologize for diverting your thread away from that.
Lawrence's first reply about using iso-propanol has worked for me to remove a variety of acrylic finishes, but I have never used that Vallejo spray so I can only suspect that the alcohol will work on it too. I've used 91% iso-propnol and let the piece soak,sometimes 10-15 minutes was enough. Some paints required overnight, followed by scrubbing with a toothbrush followed by more soaking and scrubbing. Eventually the paint did sluff off with no detectable damage to the styrene.
Covid 19 has raised the price of Iso-propanol pretty much everywhere, but a pint bottle is still cheaper than a large volume of a plastic safe stripper if you aren't going to be using a lot of it.
I did get the paint off with IPA in an ultrasonic, primed it today with Tamiya gray primer. Seems ok, no worries about thread drift, maybe we all learned something.