I put a couple shots of this project a while back and said I would give it it's own thread and then update progress. The first few shots are ones I posted before but they will set a baseline for what I'm doing which is weathering and detailing an AMS plastic high side gondola and then building a board for board actual wood and metal version of it.
First is the inside of the plastic version using Marty's oil paint technique.
Now the underside of the plastic model.
Next is a closer shot of the underside of the plastic model.
now the underside of the wood version.
A close up of the inside of the wood model.
Here is the last of the previous shots showing the inside of the wood model.
Here is a close-up of the inside of the wood model. Here you can better see the knot holes that are made from twigs.
The underside now has truss rods. The queenposts are fabricated from brass tube and strip with brass square screws soldered in. The turnbuckles are machined from bar stock. Note the truss rods do run the full length of the car with square nuts on the end.
A closer shot of the center section. You can also see all the bolt castings on the side.
Here is the bottom end. The truck mounting bolster is fabricated from brass. It it a tapered T-section with a turned center that notches in. Then long 2-56 shoulder bolts were made that fasten it to the bottom.
Here is the start of the end. Here you can better see the square nuts and special washers that were machined from brass stock.
The air valve, piston assembly was machined from brass, then went to Bob Uniack where he made resin castings. You only want to make that thing once. The pipe fittings are machined from hex stock. The elbows are notched and bent and the tee is one notched and soldered onto the other. The valves just have their silver base coat. They will eventually be sprayed a dirty brown then areas rubbed through to the silver in wear areas.
More shots of the air lines.
The unpainted side near the end. This better shows all the nut and bolt castings. A drill jig was made that clipped onto the posts to get all those holes even. The stirrups are brass strip.
The center section better shows the queenposts. The saddles have pins that run into the tubing so everything can be soldered together. The tubing goes into holes in the wood beams to make everything solid.
The other end of the side view.
The inside now has the brace rods that run from the outside center brace through the inside, down through the floor and around the bottom beams. There is a plate over the ends with homemade square nuts.
Last shot for now shows the platform end. The lower brake rod support is on. It was fabricated from one piece of brass sheet that was sawed out, then bent to shape. Again you can see the truss rod ends and their homemade nuts and washers.
Gidday John
How do you make your bolt heads? I've made them in the past by turning up a sort of 'tee' profile in brass pin wire, then filing away the bits of the arm of the tee that didn't look like a bolt head, if that makes sense (I've tried milling them but my ancient Unimat has too much slack to work well for this). I'm not sure that it's the best way, though, and I've generally chickened out on washers, other than square ones.
(model is 1:34 scale btw)
Greetings Krusty,
Some of them are spin cast from Ozark, some are injection molded from Grandt Line, some come machined from Scale Hardware and if I have to make them, the easiest way is to buy square bar stock from Special Shapes. With that, you can just drill a hole in the middle and slice off whatever you want. This thing must have a thousand bolts and/or nuts in it so I use whatever works best for the application. I also sometimes go sideways and index a series of equally spaced holes in strip stock then cut in between. When you have a size that isn't readily available by the other methods, the last one will pretty much get you what you want. That is how I did the nuts on the end. I milled the strip to one side to side dimension, spaced the holes for the same plus the width of the saw cut, drilled and sawed them out. Also to keep the drill from 'walking' I will quite often use a carbide circuit board drill or even a center cutting end mill. The last is to chuck tiny drills with only 1/4" sticking out.
John
That be some GOOD modeling, John. -- Russ
John,
you ARE nuts ;) ;D ;D
Knowing beforehand the amount of rivets, nuts and bolts it must have demanded a lot of discipline and patience.
FANTASTIC MODELING.
Jacq
Thanks John. That's very interesting.
A lot of the end brake detail has been done. Here is an overall shot of the end with added detail.
The brake stand is wood with brass bracing. I haven't seen a decent brake post ratchet so made one. That is a fun project as it is a 36 tooth gear with offset teeth and is .350" in diameter. Actually made several so we can make a mold of it. The brake release still lacks the handle and the line that runs to the cylinder. The grab irons are .045" rod with tiny brackets soldered on that are made from .093"x.032" brass strip. The brass rod sticks into the wood to give them strength, then nut bolt castings are run through a hole in the bracket and into the wood to give the appearance they are bolted on.
As I mentioned previously, the stirrup was made from a piece of sheet then folded to shape. The brake rod is brass tube to aid fabrication. It then has a piece of piano wire run through the center to give it strength.
The brake system valves are resin castings from brass patterns. The brass patterns then went to Ozark to make spin cast versions.
The clevises are a milled brass U channel that I then slice off pieces and drill a hole in the end and side. The rod then goes in with a small piece of tubing. The bellcranks are all brass sheet. The bellcrank guides are tubing that has been very carefully bent, then the ends flattened and drilled for the mounting bolts.
The valve end will get the line to the release valve. This bellcrank guide is much more elaborate and fabricated from brass strip. You can better see the pipe fittings which were turned from hex bar stock. The 90 degree ones are notched, bent and soldered.
This last shot is an attempt to give you a better idea of what the truck mounting bolster looks like. It is a strange T-section piece that is tapered and the top and bottom do not look alike. As the old drag racers would say "It is too strange to believe".
John, you have completely lost your mind. But in a good way. The modeling is just wonderful and your attention to detail astounding. -- Russ
Two questions I have on building these things.
First; I will do the paint on the outside (they didn't paint the inside) of this thing using Chuck's thinner/tape method of chipping. Now when I apply the decals, they will be way too stark for the rest of the paint. What I've done in the past is to lightly airbrush them with the principal color. Only problem is, this will not coincide with the chipping. Does anyone have any other suggestions for fading the decals to the level of the rest of the model?
Second; Does anyone have information on the brake linkage for outside mounting on the trucks themselves? I know what the car linkage looks like and have done it. I also know what inside mounted brake linkage looks like and have done that in the past. What I don't have is outside mounted brake linkage on the arch bar type of truck.
Thank you muchly!
John
You can "chip" the decals with your choice of paint to simulate the wood below.
But that doesnt help with the faded color.
What about some pin washes over the decals to "fade" them?
-Marty
At This scale, can you avoid using decals, and instead use a laser cut stencil to sponge or airbrush the lettering on? This will allow you to discolor and age the lettering as needed...also will allow you to avoid that pesky decal film silvering" that often happens on wood.
Can you use something like acetone in a fine brush or toothpick, to try and chip the silkskreened paint off the decal film surface?
I unfortunately am of no help with the brake st-up. Maybe if Jerry Kitts sees this he can chime in.
I am sure he knows.
Marc
Most of us would be unable to hand cut the stencils; laser cutting would seem to be the answer and it probably wouldn't be excessively expensive. If you need help with the artwork, contact me. -- Russ
Marc,
That is why many people prefer rub-ons in applications like this. They are also a bit easier to apply over the rough surface. Unfortunately my decal maker only makes wet, slide-on decals, so they are done and ready for application. I think I can lightly airbrush them to the faded level I'm looking for, then do a bit of chipping with my X-Acto (if the intern will allow me a sharp object). Just have to use lots of water to float them to the location I want.
Meanwhile here are a couple of shots on progress. This first is the cut levers. They are fabricated from all sorts of tubing, wire, strip, angle and whatever else I could find.
Next is the bottom of the coupler draft gear. It will make a lot more sense when I bring my other camera over here and download the interior details.
This is a side view of the draft gear. It does run from the coupler all the way to the truck mounting bolster (which is seldom done on RTR applications). It is hard to see the webbing and rivet detail here, but that will become more apparent when I post the other pictures.
Since we have had some discussions on nails, here you can see the nails in the bottom boards. What to do if it is raining and you can't get across the street to the garage.
!cnU
Thank you for the offer. You are right about hand cutting a stencil. The logo wouldn't be bad, but the data info would be a female canine. I've thought about applying decals as a sheet, then cutting out the lettering itself and using the decals as a stencil. Unfortunately I don't drink and nobody would try that sober. I think Dave at Ozark now has the ability to do rub-ons so maybe I can do some trading in the future.
John
John,
YOu can get vinyl cut as a stencil, not the letters themselves. Look at my article on bashing the New Bright car in a GR from a few issues back. You just put it on, then dry brush on your color as much as you want, then peel off the stencil. Any sign shop can cut the small letters for you. Del Taprio has a little business doing it, has ads on MLS. Car looks AWESOME!
Thank you Jerry for your kind words. Since I already have the decals made, I think I'll try the air eraser approach. I have it coming along with walnut shells, ground glass and spark plug cleaner media. I've also contacted North/South Machinery and they are going to bring me some 80, 120 and 220 grit media from a water-jet. I'm excited about the possibilities for this technique.
Meanwhile I've almost got the brake linkage done on the trucks. I'll photograph it soon. I think I'm pretty close and since nobody else seems to know what it should look like, I'll claim it is right. Actually I've done inside brake linkage several times and that I know what it looks like, so the outside can't be too different.
John
John:
I'm curious to know how the air eraser will handle these other abrasives. The eraser's nozzle opening is quite small, I believe in the neighborhood of .5mm. It's too small for glass beads (which I use in my blast cabinet. That nozzle opening is .312" dia. and can be used with crushed walnut shells). Paasche of course recommends their AEX aluminum oxide grit for fast cutting. It's very fine, something in the neighborhood of 600 grit I believe. Their medium grit is pumice and their fine is starch which is essentially a powder. I'm thinking the grits you're planning to try may be too large to pass through the eraser, but experimentation will tell. Keep us posted...
Paul
Time to show some brake detail. This is my best guess as to how it works. I have shots of bits and pieces plus I've done inboard brakes so I know I'm pretty close. The first shot is of the entire truck side frame.
This is a close up of the frame extension to carry the cross beam that the brakes are hung from. I have some pictures of sideframes without these extensions and from the best I can tell, the brakes are hung, believe it or not, from the car frame. Do understand that at this point, I have not filled the joints and filed them to appear to be one piece. Some of the solder joints are also still rough. Those were tough in places as the side frame is die cast, while the brakes are plastic. That means I'm soldering brass together that is connected to plastic which is less than 1/2" away.
Here is the cross beam with the brakes hung from it. Note the step in the coupler side, while the inner one is straight. The brake arms are made from 'I' beam with thick wall tubing for their ends. Also note the angle of the bellcranks. No I did not screw up. They really are on an angle. They are made from brass sheet while the clevises are fabricated.
This is an overall of the bottom of the truck so you can see all of that linkage.
This is a close-up of the rear portion of the linkage. You can see how it runs through a bellcrank on the bolster and over to one on the brake beam. I have a slip joint on the linkage to the brake cylinder to allow more movement since this truck turns farther than the prototype. Keep in mind, this is not a shelf model. It gets run on some pretty rough track.
The front brake goes through a bell crank and then runs over and ties to the bolster. So you pull on the rear brake, it presses against the wheel and then that pulls on the front brake. Since the top of the bell crank is tied to the bolster, that forces the front brake to the front wheels.
This is an overall shot of the entire bottom of the gondola so you can see all of the brake linkage.
An overall side view with the decals on it. These were fun to put on over the rough wood. Particularly since I did not want to put any gloss coat over the wood that I worked so hard to distress.
I've started fading the decals by airbrushing a light coat of the body color over them.
This was my first attempt at chipping the decals with the air eraser. Interesting effect but much too aggressive, So I have now put several coats of dull coat over them and will try again. Also with them, I had the air pressure down to maybe twenty lbs. and it was still too much.
The Rio part
Here are the two gondolas together. Neither has had any weathering at this point.
Your modeling has moved up another notch, John. -- Russ
Thank you Unc! I think we are all learning from one another here.
My last postings were apparently so fantastic, I left everyone speechless. So now I've 'trashed' the wood version a bit so it is starting to look more like what you would see working on a narrow gauge railroad up in the mountains and maybe everyone has regained their breath.
This first shot is of the overall side view.
Here is a closer view of the brake side.
Here is the side in the center. As I've mentioned, all the stirrups, grab irons, queenposts, turnbuckles and so on were scratch built. The bolts on the side are Ozark, but I used separate real washers which give a much better definition than a simple NBW casting.
The side at the other end. The paint was scratched with a wire brush, then blasted with 220 grit garnet with an air eraser. Used about 45lbs air pressure. 65lbs is just too aggressive for this application. The garnet is from a water jet. Over the decals, you have to just very lightly tap the air, or it will strip everything off immediately. I think I mentioned the knot holes are twigs.
The inside has now been worked over with powders. They do quite well on rough wood as they work their way in. Cars like this one are not shelf queens, they get handled a lot, so weathering has to be 'attached' pretty well. To give you an idea, it fell off the table, landed in my lap, then rolled down my legs and fell in the floor. It didn't phase it. Picked it up and set it on the table.
Here is an overall of the full interior. Don't think I'll fill it full of coal after putting all the nuts and bolts plus the nails on the inside.
The bottom of the truck with a little dirt and rust. After what it took to splice the ends into a Bachmann truck, next time I think I'll make some patterns and do my own trucks.
This is the brake end. The question had been asked elsewhere about where the truss rods go. You can see the bolts and washers here. The truss rods on this thing really do go through the end and the bolts are actually attached to them.
Here is the other end. Getting the light right on this just wasn't working today. I first tried to shoot it in the apartment and not enough light. So I went outside and the sun was so bright that it was making harsh shadows. So I did this in the shade and bracketed three shots and it still looks faded.
Did a close-up of the brake release/shaft. All of these parts are machined from brass. Getting the little line from the release, through all the bottom braces and up to the cylinder is loads of fun.
Couplers on a car that will end up being run on rough track like Del Oro Pacific have to be tough. These are Accucraft heads with my own shafts and draft gear. Can't have them breaking down in the middle of a show.
I tried to get a side shot of the truck so you could see all the mods.
John, Thank you for continuing this thread (learning a lot about these gondolas)am most impressed with your fine detail work . That shot of the chain bolted to the top of the coupler is great!!!!! Randy
Randy,
Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad somebody is getting something from these posts.
John
Hi John ......I just wanted to let you know that I use your stuff to get me fired back up to get some work done!!!! Now after I buttered you up, how in the heck did you make the Nails!!!!!......Keep posting,Please, you have alot of people veiwing and learning...... Randy
Excellent work, John. The gon has the most sophisticated finish I've seen on your models along with the usual meticulous craftsmanship. -- Russ
I agree with Uncle.
This goes beyond museum quality.
Jacq
Nicely done John.
Paul
Thank you very much guys.
Randy, the nails are .032" brass rod that I stuck in holes. Only the top shows so no need to create heads. It sure was a bunch of holes to drill with a pin vise.
!cnU; I'm trying to learn how to paint. In the past I did all those crazy pearl, candy metalflake things on my RC cars. Somehow I don't think they would work on a train.
Jacq, I don't know if they are museum quality, but they sure are dirtier than museum models.
John
John, Nice work on the gondolas I like seeing this large scale stuff and have been enjoying this thread.
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
John,
Very nicely done. The brasswork is superb (makes one feel quite inadequate). Thanks for the SBS. A lot of really good info.
Marc
I hope my efforts in metalwork can contribute even a small percentage to your efforts as your painting and weathering techniques have contributed to mine.
John
Nice work John, as usual!
Thought you might find this interesting. This is the front of the two gondolas in this thread on Del Oro Pacific during the Big Train Show in Ontario this past weekend. They were pulled by the K27 in a previous thread. Over the weekend, both gondolas and the engine got about 4 hours of actual running time during show conditions, on a very rough track, without so much as a hitch from any of them. It just goes to prove that despite what a lot of people who don't want to build will tell you, super detailed models CAN run reliably under difficult conditions. And yes, all the parts are still attached.
John