I just got word that Grandt Line is closing shop. They hope to be completely closed by June.
What will we DO ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Will Keith Wiseman come through like Mighty Mouse to save the day!
MPH
I'm surprised the hobby side of Grandt's business has lasted until now. The medical side may stay afloat. Cliff was the main reason Grandt Line continued. When he was gone nobody really cared much about it and we all know how the tooling wore out. Of course, fewer hobbyists are around and a much smaller fraction wants to build. Even so, its closure will be an enormous loss to modelers. Unfortunately 3-D printing seems too immature to take its place.
Prediction: Hobbies gradually will revert to how they were in the late 1940s to mid/late 1950s. We'll have to scratchbuild more of what we want. One man part-time businesses will provide more of what we want. Technology will help us produce higher quality parts but the more sophisticated of us probably will have to rely much more on helping one another because many of us have particular expertise in a specialized area. I might provide printed artwork or help with CAD; Ed Traxler may help design 3-D printed parts; Helmut might help with machining ... that kind of thing. Personally, it may make hobbies more fun (eliminating businesses) and possibly improve the overall quality of serious modeling for those few of us who remain. I sure hope so.
Russ
I've never bought anything at Grandt Line or comparable stores here in Germany. My hobby is to make my own models and not to buy oneself. As long as I can buy tools, colors and raw material, I will continue to enjoy my hobby. I'm sure you know that Frithjof, Volker and I help and support each other. I think that's the future of our hobby. Of course, we also give parts for 3D printing and let us pour out parts. I also have a friend who has a professional etching company who sends my CAD data and gets the etched back sheet. If there is something ready to buy, which helps me, I do not have to do it myself , Again and again I dream of being able to produce one or the other for a model myself better. Every Monday evening, a modeler comes here from close to me and we build together on our models.
For me, modeling is about building itself, that's crucial to my hobby. I was just at a model making meeting, there was a group that operated their model trains partly on raw undeveloped segments. This group is almost exclusively about driving. My models all have to work reliably and excellently. Only when this condition is reached do I like to show it on a show, but at home I only use my model train for a test. If it works, I have an idea again what I would like to build new and a game with the train would only stop me from building. The worst part is, I still have a lot more ideas for models like models in my life still can build myself.
I always thought their styrene castings were quite nice.
Sad but not a surprise... :-[
Helmut posted exactly my philosophy when I switched to 1/16th scale.
By making the change i have to make nearly everything.
I have been helped GREATLY by Chuck, Volker, Ed and Unc. and many others.
If anyone ever want help - please just ask.
I'm glad to do whatever i can as a mediocre machinist and a very green 3D drafter...
Marty
I hope that Tichy can pickup some of the slack.
Grandt Line closing - I Have used Grandt bits for well over 30years but it has become obvious that there standards have dropped especially the last few years - many discontinued items / the lower the part number the the worse the quality (Due to age) but no signs of starting again to improve the finish of the part - small parts/ nuts /bolts and rivets being the worst !! - Most kit producers often state "now with new moulds " because of the age of the kit or the bits - while others just sit there and take the money ! - I know the size of the company goes a long way and investing in stuff now days is a risky game - but there is nothing wrong in cutting back and concentrating on the stuff that sells and being interested in your business it goes a long way to please the punter - there is still some very nice Grandt
products / casting and I can only hope that some one will take it on but introduce a new range of nuts /bolts and rivets
Barney
Russ - whats the "Medical side of Grandt Line Products ?
As I understand it, Grandt produced plastic parts for the "medical field". I know nothing more than that. Whatever the parts are or were, they provided the family's income and covered overhead for producing the modeling parts. It makes perfect sense when you consider how few small businesses actually do better than break even in the hobby industry. -- Russ
Sad :( I for one DONT want to have to scratch build EVERYTHING on a project I'm doing.....and 3D is nice....I don't know how to do it and don't want to put in tons of TIME to learn how to use it at my age 63 Grant Line made lots of stuff for O scale narrow gauge and to be able to just BUY what I wanted was NICE a hell of a lot better than making it yourself or in my case PAYING someone to do the cad work for me.....I tried it once on doing some 1/2 inch stuff years ago on my gas station build.....it was costly. So with all the company's dropping like FLY'S I believe it makes things harder on all of us
could we at least, if not agree, acknowledge that we're losing a piece of "hobby history"?
if you have a friend that dies, will someone stand at their grave and say "you guys can go out and make another friend".
just like Ken Kidder, Rollins House Miniatures, and many, too many, more, the Hobby has lost a contributing member.
Grandt Line RIP - and Thank You for all the great things you've done for the Modeler.
Quote from: detail_stymied on March 15, 2018, 02:45:39 PM
Grandt Line RIP - and Thank You for all the great things you've done for the Modeler.
Yep, end of an era. They did a lot for the hobby, especially narrow gauge.
I definitely understand why Craig feels as he does. I'm not crazy about scratchbuilding absolutely everything, either. Here's an interim idea:
I was talking to Jeff Saxton earlier, a professional modeler with whom I've been friends since I first began publishing. He was a frequent contributor to my magazines and created some of large scale railroading's most inspirational early models. When I told him about Grandt he said something about having used a laser to create large scale NBWs. I guess I'll get more details from him tomorrow but it seems it would be possible to create those parts with a laser by cutting circles and squares, each with a hole through the center and then stacking one over the other and sticking a round or square rod through the holes. It might be a little fussy but you'd have an NBW feasible for the larger scales.
If Jeff could do that twenty years ago, somebody now may come up with a way to provide the details we need using whatever technology is currently available. Or someone else might tool up for limited production injection molded parts. While I also miss Ken Kidder, Grandt, et al., and while nobody lasts forever (including me), substitutes usually appear.
Russ
apparently the "military guys" have shunned GL for years since the molds aged and their detail became soft. I've seen great reviews of these: http://inscale.org/public/?p=10160
of course there'll be up and coming new players, but it doesn't minimize the loss of a Leader.
Some of the newer parts such as the Russian made rivets are fine for those working in larger scales, but those of us working in smaller scales will not have what we are used to. I guess eventually I will revert to making rivets from dress pins as I did as a teenager.
There is always these guys:
https://model-motorcars.myshopify.com/collections/small-parts-hardware/rivets
Paul
Yes sadly "the end of yet another era" thinking about It 30-40 years ago there was nothing else on offer especially in the UK
Barney
Thanks for that link, Paul. -- Russ
well, where is the garage sale yard sale to those north of the line yard sale? most likely e bay will have stuff for the rest of our lives, they produced so much.sad but the market is changing most of there stuff is from the 70 now you can get your nuts and bolts in so many different versions online from anywhere in the world.
Ray thanks for the heads-up. I just ordered 45 packs of rivets,NB and NBW. They will still be taking order until May 1. In over 40 years I have never had a bad part from Grandt Line. It looks like Tichy Train Group has a great selection of rivets and some NB that I will check out.
Gordon Birrell
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonbirrell/
Quote from: SandiaPaul on March 16, 2018, 06:05:04 AM
There is always these guys:
https://model-motorcars.myshopify.com/collections/small-parts-hardware/rivets
Paul
I have used these before motorcars took them over. Very good quality.
Bill Hudson
A good set of cup burs is helpful in making your own rivets. Chuck a pin in a pin vice and a proper size cup bur in a power hand tool and you can shape pin heads to good looking rivets all the same size.
Bill Hudson
No one offers the O scale narrow gauge parts that Grandt has. It will be hard to find some items and I hope someone buys the business.
It is for sale but not the name. My line of kits depends heavily on their details.
8)
Dave, Do you think Don Tichy would be interested in taking over the line?
Quote from: mabloodhound on March 22, 2018, 11:40:43 AM
No one offers the O scale narrow gauge parts that Grandt has. ...
I agree. rivets & nwbs aside, I really find their windows superb.
I like their large scale windows and doors. I don't know of any other source for those, with the same level of quality and variety.
Quote from: Ray Dunakin on March 23, 2018, 10:26:11 AM
I like their large scale windows and doors. I don't know of any other source for those, with the same level of quality and variety.
Agreed. Over the weekend I bought a 3D printer and the newest model Cricut Maker (it was a good weekend!), and I just went out to my LHS and bought several Grandt Line items to serve as reference guides for creating my own. I have no problem making them from scratch but I've got some projects coming up that call for like 30-40 windows and/or doors each, and I don't want to spend the rest of my life building them ...
Grandt's closure is a big loss but I think we have ways of reproducing many of Cliff's parts in even higher quality without resorting to injection molded styrene.
Laser cut Strathmore or "stencil card" / "oiled manilla" can produce much nicer doors and windows than Grandt's HO and O scale items and since you assemble them by laminating two or three layers it is easy to produce contrasting colors. The large scale parts may be more difficult, especially for outdoor models. Rolling stock and locomotive fittings, pot belly stoves, and other hardware also will be very hard to replace.
Instead of lamenting the loss of the line we should concentrate on devising feasible ways to replace it. (Why isn't 3-D printing much better after all this time?)
Russ
I have read in the BRM forum in my opinion, the Grand Line should also be sold eventuel, only by a possible buyer, I have not read anything.
I have tried to find the Thrend again, unfortunately unsuccessful.
Quote from: finescalerr on March 23, 2018, 11:25:11 AM
Instead of lamenting the loss of the line we should concentrate on devising feasible ways to replace it. (Why isn't 3-D printing much better after all this time?)
I agree wholeheartedly, but I do think 3-D printing is much better. It's more a question, I think, of bringing the cost down, and I know that is and will continue to happen. The printer I bought over the weekend cost just over $200 and it is a small, starter model and certainly not top of the line, but especially for the design and prototyping I intend to primarily use it for, it is getting more and more accessible.
About 3D printing...I just saw this week a part printed on this:
https://formlabs.com/3d-printers/form-2/
Quality was outstanding. In fact it got me thinking about buying one and becoming a "service bureau" for modelers.
As for Grandt Line, it kind of saddens me to see one of the old high quality companies pass, but time marches on. I agree with Russ, its not the doors and windows that are the problem. The more difficult parts are the issue, things like air brake parts, couplers, trucks, freight car details, etc... That is where I was thinking about the 3D printer.
Paul
It would be very helpful for somebody to post images of small, hi-res 3-D printed parts for us to analyze. We already know from Chuck and Volker that most parts are good for 1:24 scale and larger. I, and probably others, want to know what 1:32 scale and smaller printed NBWs and rivets look like in sizes of 1 scale inch diameter down. Also, how about curved or angled parts? Is stepping objectionable?
My point is that the printer companies and service bureaus show examples of their best work but never their typical stuff and, usually, larger rather than smaller parts. My own Internet searches have turned up nothing useful but this is the place for an honest assessment. Has any of you bought 3-D prints of tiny stuff?
Russ
Quote from: SandiaPaul on March 24, 2018, 05:58:39 AM
...
As for Grandt Line, it kind of saddens me to see one of the old high quality companies pass, but time marches on. ...
we should keep this thread on target and then someone start a 3-D printing thread
Actually, there already is one, a sticky here in General Forums
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=2199.0
Being just down the street a ways to them, I had heard rumors, and now their website confirms, that Grandt is negotiating and finalizing the sale of its tooling to "a reputable company."
That's good to hear!