I received the new conical rivets that I persuaded Don Tichy to make. These are .060 D. head with a 1/32 shank. The Tichy Train Group will now have a full line of conical rivets.
More to come as the EBT 116 - Tank Car progresses....
Looks great...looking forward to seeing progress.
Paul
Geoff, those look nice. Great to hear Tichy is adding them to their line. I definitely can use them.
Pease post progress on the car when you get a chance, would enjoy seeing more.
Marc
They look beautiful!
Wish I would have known about these about a week ago...............
Looking forward to more images also.
-Mj
Thanks for the info, Geoff. Is the car for you or will it be a production model? -- Russ
Cool, there's always a need for good conical rivets. How do these compare with the conical rivets from Grandt Line?
Geoff nice rivet work. What scale is this model? I just placed my first order to Tichy for some .080" and .070" rivets. I think they have round heads. I am very happy to to see the .070" and.080" size rivets a nice addition to my palette of parts. I just ordered 40 packages so I hope they are as good as the Grandt Line castings.
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Nice!
Quote from: Scratchman on March 14, 2014, 07:58:35 PM
I just placed my first order to Tichy for some .080" and .070" rivets. I hope they are as good as the Grandt Line castings.
Gordon Birrell
I think you will be very pleased with them, Gordon. For my $ they are the best. Usual disclaimer -- no financial interest, just a satisfied customer.
Bill Martinsen
The 1:20.3 EBT Tank Car projects is taking shape quickly. I am doing what the EBT did and outfitting one of my existing steel flat cars for the tank.
The tank is made from a ABS tube that has three .012" styrene wrappers. The hole pattern for the rivets was laser etched. To simulate the lapped seam where there is no wrapper (light grey bands) I used a cabinet scraper to create and blend the step. Then a scrap of the styrene rivet pattern was used as a drilling template for the .060 D. conical rivets.
The Tichy rivets are crisply molded and have a sturdy stem. I drill a 1/32 D. hole and the rivets pop in and stay. I was tempted to just let the paint hold them in but decided to swipe them with styrene solvent.
The new wood decking will run lengthwise and there will be a good deal of daylight between the tank support and the decking. The frame and brake rigging details should show off nicely.
116 will have some of my new parts... nickle-silver anglecocks and hose clamps to go along with the magnetic ProtoHands - "working" gladhands.
The valve handle is movable and has just enough friction to stay where you put it. The "working" anglecock will add a nice bit of animation where you want to see the valve in the closed position.
The hose clamps slip on then a sidecutter is used to lightly crimp the band at the clamp (no glue needed).
Geoff
Top-notch work!
Everything is adequate indeed and that air hose-gladhand assembly is truly disgusting. -- Russ
Very nice work Geoff. I got my Tichy rivets and it only took four days. I'm looking forward to the Conical rivets hope they offer the larger sizes and they are available soon. The Tichy castings are very good, and I am very happy to see the larger sizes..
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Gorden, Tichy has them now. I know he has .060, .070 and probably has the .080.
You should call, as one never knows how quickly a web site will be updated.
Geoff
Geoff,
your modeling looks very crisp and clean. Especially the complete air hose components are inspiring. Is it cast nickel silver? Would you mind to tell a bit about how you made them? Via prototyping or manual master forms?
Thanks and cheers,
Volker
I too would like to know about the castings...
Thanks,
Paul
Here's a link to the Tichy Train Group
http://www.tichytraingroup.com/Default.aspx
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
When making parts I often make them the same way they were made in 1:1
If a part was cast I'll look at making a casting, if it was a stamped part I'll try to stamp it, if it was blacksmithed I'll fabricate it.
-The pole pockets are brass castings made from my hand built master
-The Carmer style uncoupling levers are "blacksmithed" for each car, as the pivot point, hanger and coupler offset varies from car type to car type. This one is the easiest version as it is straight in elevation and plan view.
-The stake pockets are made from a stamping, just like the real deal.
-The railing stanchions are fabricated. Rather than rolling the end of the angle iron around the hand rail I soldered on a tube to create the illusion. If I move past the study model and make a small run of these cars I'll make a fixture to aid bending, shaping and rolling the end of the brass angle.
- For the magnetic ProtoHands, anglecocks and hose clamps my needs alone justified 3D rapid prototyping to prepare masters for nickel-silver investment castings. My friend and associate Terry Van Winkle modeled the components in Solidworks and printed resin parts for design and engineering review. His professional speciality is 3D design and printing and a segment of his business is jewelry design for the high fashion industry. For my production needs, the finalized STL files were printed in high res wax and invested to create the metal masters for molding.
The end products are durable nickel-sliver parts that can soldered. The nickel castings can be blackened or painted. In either case, I prefer the nickel over a brass casting because chips in the finish and/or wear and tear show as a silver metal.
More to come on this subject as Terry is developing the 3-D model for the tank dome.
.
Really amazing work!
When you stamp the stake pockets, do you just press the dies together in a vice, or do you tap it with a hammer?
Beautiful craftsmanship.
Ray, The first step is to anneal the brass blanks. The part is "stamped" with a small arbor press. Takes a little work to pull the fixture apart afterwards then the stamping gets trimmed and drilled. I probably shouldn't use the word stamping as it gives the impression that these things just pop out .....bam,bam,bam.....
Here is Terry's rendering of the dome.
The parts are printed individually (dome, vent & screw on lid).
I'll set up for better quality shots when the dome is riveted to the tank.
Geoff, thanks for your explanation. The printed master forms and the castings seem to have a very high quality.
Volker
Where are you getting the printing done?
The dome parts are printed photopolymer by Terry Van Winkle on a 3D Systems Pro Jet (similar to the process that shapeways uses). Terry brings a lot to the party... his 3D design experience, hands on printing experience, modeling background & understanding of the finescale modeler's needs. For 3D printing services you can contact Terry here: trvw@earthlink.net
Geoff
oldirondesigns.com
How much printed parts cleanup is necessary? -- Russ
Very clean parts. The lid & vent are untouched. The dome has been cleaned up, which was easy because the part was printed with holes for the rivets. Any surface cleanup around printed rivets would have been impossibly hard.
I just thought I would add that resolution (print thickness) is .001 inch. Also, Terry takes extra care when removing the carrier/support material from the part. I'm not sure that the .012 thick dome flange would have made it through a production job shop. When you are pushing limits or exceeding the capabilities of a job shop printer Terry's service may be of value.
The tank started EBT life as a previously owned tank which was placed on an EBT built wood flat car #102
At some point in the 30's the tank was placed on steel flat 116.
You can see the rust marks which denote the previous location of the bands when the tank was on flat 102.
I have always thought it funny that the EBT had to label the car "TANK-CAR"... wtf else could it be.
So now I wonder if I should apply the word CAR askew like the prototype?
Which might just look like a modeling mistake?
I'd say do it!
If you don't someone here may say it is not "prototypicaly correct"
The guy with the "tank" stencil must have been taller than the guy with the "car" stencil.
-Marty
TANK CAR
I think it is an illusion; a sign painters dilemma. When painting block or all cap letters some look wider, taller or smaller even though they are painted within the same size spaces. A good sign painter knows how to compensate for this by slightly adjusting the spacing and height and width of each letter. For tank The T, N, and K are all broad topped letters which can give the illusion of the word being higher that car. CAR is round head, no head and simi-round headed letters which shift the visual image so the word can look lower. The mind is a jokester.
applied perspective correction and drew a line below the text
Thanks for the input guys. It is a case of "just noticeable difference". It fear that if I put it on askew it will look like poor modeling skill rather than prototypical.
I like Marty's one tall and one short sign painter theory.
In a different view, I think the misalignment is more noticeable.
A quick handheld snap of the tank with primer...
I can see some rivets that need setting...
As I hoped, the conical rivets cast nice shadows...
Looks great!
I wonder, what was the purpose of conical rivets?
Found a reference in an article from "Everyday Engineering Magazine, volumes 4-6" pub. 1888 .. where it says "The different styles of rivets in general use throughout the country are the "conehead," "buttonhead," and the "countersunk head" rivets. The cone and countersunk head rivets are generally used on steam, oil, air and water-tight work".
In "The Iron Age, Volume 93" pub 1914 they refer to button-head structural rivets .. and .. cone-head boiler rivets.
Geoff, did you do any cleanup on the dome, or is that how it came. Looks quite clean.
Hey guys,
I just found this book Machine Design I in a box in my basement while I was cleaning out some room for a shelf.
Felt it would be appropriate here.
>edit> I added a few of the preceding pages I had left out that explain more about the rivets.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-001.jpg&hash=02bcaa84c524979c70f7ff55abbb5a32607c8ced)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-002.jpg&hash=2ba8e41584dba2e3f892047895136ee363f91424)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-003.jpg&hash=0d24c6d4a8ffe734a15e5d0765421aba224044f3)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-0041.jpg&hash=8ded8ce61cb16877ad6823c7038142136df97e93)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-0051.jpg&hash=393b87ac2f0d76fc1a65e02edf822bc9cb753bcc)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-006.jpg&hash=4f2574434eaf4bbc4f88940855b6944129f86900)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-007.jpg&hash=89f04075ad423d41ba65e2f983f2b4ba6f8d1dc6)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-008.jpg&hash=3fc2143be3ad75128157ab1980d8ced56874fbdd)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-009.jpg&hash=491b2fccafd95ce3c157732f664724cc3cfc327a)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-010.jpg&hash=fe2a1568f0b137774da302b8c4f1797fcdad8e0d)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nebrownstone.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Frivets-011.jpg&hash=5b68f3c948acb4ea5cacb419979019d4dfbd6ee8)
Holy crap! I didn't think they would be that big. Oh well, live with it. :)
Russ, Perfect size... thanks for posting the great info.
Ray, I read somewhere that conical rivets were for hand hammering.
Chuck, I primed both without cleanup. The vent is "as printed". Terry did some cleanup on the dome.
I'll do a little surfacing before paint, but not much.
The drawings show two kinds of rivets without explaining why one or the other is in use. Baffling. -- Russ (The semi-retired Russ)
Russ,
I added 5 more pages from that book that explain the rivets in more detail. I guess I was in a hurry to put up the pretty pictures the first round. :-\