Started to Sort a WD Sentinel Steam Wagon in 1/35th (whilst waiting for fresh stocks of rivets) and for a change loads of information on these
"little brutes" acrylic rod boiler and Evergreen channel / strip for main chassis.
Barney
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What year is this? It's rear traction looks like a early Holt, is it before WW1
I've never seen this before
MPH
A little bit of history
The Sentinel was the product of a Glasgow firm of marine engineers Alley & Maclellan
Designed by Stephen Alley the first Sentinel was introduced in 1906 and featured a vertical boiler and a really efficient superheater .The engine was 2 cylinders under floor type.
In 1917 Alley & Maclellan was renamed Sentinel Wagon Works and the Factory was moved to Shrewsbury where it remained until the end of production in 1950
The tracked drive was introduced in the 1st World War years and several variations were on trial by the War Department one of which was a Holt type. At the end of the war the war department sold of the steam wagons many were used by local council authorities for use on road works some being converted back to the original wheedled type.
The WD versions were all fitted with heavy duty winches some with two - one up front one up rear. these Steam Wagons were used mainly for the towing of Heavy artillery and equipment with the capabilities of the winch for assembling the heavy guns and bridge building and other engineering projects – most photographs show them in use in England around dock yards towing and loading equipment onto ships I have not found many photos of them being used in Europe in the "Great War" years but a few after the war in France helping in rebuilding of roads – railways and Hospitals.
Hope that was not to boring
Barney
Cool, especially the version with the tracks.
Cool project! Look forward to watching your build. -- Dallas
Start of the front axle and transverse spring - modified Grandt Line wheels - rims are 10 thou Evergreen strip 2 layers
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Under floor 2 cylinder engine started and ready for detailing
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Barney
Very adequate fabrication. -- Russ
Nice!
Very Nice Barney,
Was the tracked version a one-off? Here is a similar machine that Phoenix Manufacturing of Eau Clair Wisconsin developed. Phoenix was a large supplier of logging equipment and offered steam powered log haulers built under the Lombard Patents. Around 1914-15 they attempted to market a gasoline version which was later offered in modified form by Allis Chalmers.
Amazingly according to the January 7, 1922 issue of "American Lumberman" they attempted to offer a advanced steam design. Whether they actually built a machine or not know.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JZS5Xqquft0/UgRNvr2rxkI/AAAAAAAAB2I/JT77vYPYgag/s557/Phoenix-1.jpg)
Here are the specs (note the use of compound engines, condensers and an advanced boiler design.)
Source: The Phoenix Road Locomotive, American Lumberman, January 7, 1922, pp 68 & 69
Boiler pressure: 400 psi
Steam chest pressure:300 psi @ 25% cutoff (super heated)
Boiler: Drumless sectional water-tube boiler designed by W.H. Winslow (Winslow Bro. Co. Chicago, IL.)
Burner: Blast type (oil, low grade distillates)
Condensers: Under normal operating conditions the water lose per gallon is equal to the fuel burned.
Weight: 8-1/2 tons
Capacity: (deck load) 5 tons
Drawbar pull:(normal) 2,500 lbs @ 6 mph
Drawbar pull: (Maximum) 5,000 lbs @ 6 mph
Wheel base: 10’-6”
Engines:(2) 3-1/2x7”x5” (compound)
Brake horsepower: 60 hp @ 25% cutoff
The article optimistically states: “Orders are now being tentatively accepted for these road locomotive – deliveries scheduled for the spring of 1922”
Apparently like the gasoline tractor this machine used a track design by C. L. Tolles (Pat. 1106595, Nov. 1, 1912) that is based on the Nov. 9, 1900 Lombard patent as previously used by Phoenix.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sC1w55Ftwl8/UgRNvjyrK6I/AAAAAAAAB2E/gPKfmAqEwlY/s800/Phoenix%2520track-1.jpg)
W.H. Winslow patented quite a number of boiler designs. Since the article stated it was a sectional water-tube design that had 10 years and $150,000.00 of development behind it I assumed it to based on this his May 1921 patent.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eONdUADVr8A/UgRVLbsIChI/AAAAAAAAB2g/aekp1GZae9g/s800/Phoenix%2520boiler-1.jpg)
Anyway, don't mean to highjack your thread but I found the similarities rather striking. Looking forward to watching your progress and seeing the amazing example of craftsmanship that results.
Best regards,
Terry
Well that's a new one -never seen this type before - Evidently the Sentinel version used a variety of makers for the tracks most were tested by the War Department but proved to be a bit unreliable the Holt version seemed to be the popular choice manly because production parts were available and existing units could be used without to much modification
Barney
Quote from: finescalerr on February 14, 2014, 11:32:09 AM
Very adequate fabrication. -- Russ
Yes, indeed! Beautiful work.
-- Dallas
Slow progress but its full steam ahead from now on dead line for September !! trial fit of the tracks and suspension bits - separate track links are white metal suitably modified.
Barney
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Looking good!
What is the source of the tracks?
Ray the tracks are from the Friulmodel range they are very nice very little flash - I use pins to join them I find it easier than using the wire they supply
Could not get much info on the Holt set up so I'm working from the pictures and descriptions and using "the drive tooth on the track version" Holt Caterpillar type use the teeth on the drive wheel.
Barney
Water tank fitted and winch side plates trial fit with "sloppy" brass wire cable drums acrylic rod.
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Seat fitted and coal bunker in place - both the water tank and coal bunker are larger versions on WD types - coal bunker repositioned to side normally under seats
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Rear view showing winch drums and side plates
Barney
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Looks great!
Thank you for the progress shots. -- Russ
Progress so far - trial fit of tracks /steering box and wheel now in place / rear winch bits fitted and the start of the logging trailer (running short of time so going for the forestry unit version)
Barney
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Winch drums trial fit and towing hitch fitted
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Nice progress!
Looking great!
What do you mean "short on time"?
I bet the operator keeps his chestnuts warm sitting so close to that boiler! ::)
-Mj
Marty,
He is short of time, because the "inspectors" are visiting this Saturday and god help the old soul if it's not finished by then !
Beautiful progress.
The "inspectors are coming" please note Gordon -The suspension does not work - the steering does not work - the brakes are not connected and very little rivet detail so far that's before you ask !!
Barney
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Gordon's the driver and Nicks the one with the "honker"
That can't possibly be Nick. He's standing in the corner. -- Russ
Quote from: Barney on May 14, 2014, 05:50:49 AM
The "inspectors are coming" please note Gordon -The suspension does not work - the steering does not work - the brakes are not connected and very little rivet detail so far that's before you ask !!
Barney
That sounds like my old Land Rovers you are talking about ,
Nick
Quote from: shropshire lad on May 14, 2014, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Barney on May 14, 2014, 05:50:49 AM
The "inspectors are coming" please note Gordon -The suspension does not work - the steering does not work - the brakes are not connected and very little rivet detail so far that's before you ask !!
Barney
That sounds like my old Land Rovers you are talking about ,
Nick
Sounds like most any older British car. :D :P
A bit more now onto pipes and steam fittings
Barney
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Winch drums completed and fittings for crane jib nearly completed
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Satisfactory. -- Russ
More pipes and even a roof !
Barney
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Logs from our Nick
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That's really looking good!
It's Funky :o :o
MPH
I think , Barney , that you really need one BIG log on the trailer and not three piddly little sticks . I shall see if I can find something suitable . Something about a scale 12' in diameter .
I'm looking forward to seeing it with paint. -- Russ
Nick or anyone with knowledge of the French logging industry in the 1st WW era - did they have any monster 12ft dia trees in France ?
Barney
Quote from: Barney on May 29, 2014, 02:30:20 AM
Nick or anyone with knowledge of the French logging industry in the 1st WW era - did they have any monster 12ft dia trees in France ?
Barney
Barney ,
Whilst I am by no means an expert on this subject , I would think it to be highly likely that at that time there were trees of that size being felled and used in France . Whether that is the case now I couldn't say . There are loads of photos around showing trees of that size being transported in Britain in that era and as the French are known to manage their woodland better than the British then I would think they would have just as big trees . Whether they were used for the war effort I couldn't say . I have had a look through some of my British logging books and I have a few photos of Sentinels hauling logs . There are more photos of Fodens , however . Which are of no use to you !
Nick
Quote from: shropshire lad on May 30, 2014, 02:44:05 AM
Quote from: Barney on May 29, 2014, 02:30:20 AM
Nick or anyone with knowledge of the French logging industry in the 1st WW era - did they have any monster 12ft dia trees in France ?
Barney
Barney ,
Whilst I am by no means an expert on this subject , I would think it to be highly likely that at that time there were trees of that size being felled and used in France . Whether that is the case now I couldn't say . There are loads of photos around showing trees of that size being transported in Britain in that era and as the French are known to manage their woodland better than the British then I would think they would have just as big trees . Whether they were used for the war effort I couldn't say . I have had a look through some of my British logging books and I have a few photos of Sentinels hauling logs . There are more photos of Fodens , however . Which are of no use to you !
Nick
I would love to see some images of logging operations on the British Isles involving 12` diameter logs! I would think that logs of this size are very rare in western Europe, especially after 1900.
Ok , I lied . Just a little bit . 12' diameter logs were not that common , but I do have images of vehicles hauling logs that size and bigger . I guess , 8 to 10' diameter logs would be more plausible . But my point being that one large log would look more impressive than 3 smaller ones .
Nick
Nick I no longer do impressive or complicated !
just a few shots of logging in France and England
Barney
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One from Wales
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Southern England
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I guess a vast amount of timber was needed for tunnel props and timber for trenches so did not need to be of large diameter . But I still reckon it would look better with one big log .
That's what it will have if and when it comes to retire in the country .
You guys used up all your big "Sticks" building the worlds largest wooden navy ::)
We Americans saved out big Sticks, for all the world to see,.................. :o :o
Sequoia sempervirens:
This species includes the tallest trees living now on Earth, reaching up to 379 feet (115.5 m) in height (without the roots) and up to 26 feet (7.9 m) in diameter at breast height.
here are a few of their names and sizes:
Lost Monarch 321H x 26W
Melkor 349H x 22.4W
Lluvator 300H x 20W
Del Norte Titan 307H x 24W
El Viejo Del Norte 324H x 23 W
Sir Isacc Newton 299H x 22W
So Nick, next time you come to the States, stop by and say Hi to Mr. Potato Head and then go see The Elder "Jerry Kitts" he lives in Humboldt County were the Redwoods thrive.
America We've got Big trees and were proud of it!
MPH
Up and onward with nuts / bolts and rivets
Barney
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Lots to do underside more nuts bolts and suspension bits
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Great job!
That thing looks so good it's almost a shame to paint it (even though paint will make it look even better). The photos are a mute tutorial on how to fabricate a model. -- Russ
Lovely.
Can't wait to see what color you are going to paint it. :D :P
Mark - now you will just have to wait for the answer to that one ! but I can say its finished and is now a roofless version and in-between all that we have moved and living out of our "coded cardboard box system" it sort of worked but can not find the kettle or my clean under pants !
Barney
Quote from: Barney on July 10, 2014, 01:21:13 PM
Mark - now you will just have to wait for the answer to that one ! but I can say its finished and is now a roofless version and in-between all that we have moved and living out of our "coded cardboard box system" it sort of worked but can not find the kettle or my clean under pants !
Barney
You have more than one pair ?
Oh, my. I think we just heard from Nick. Come to think of it, we also heard from Marc. All of this is just too much; I must increase my medication. -- ssuR
French Blue! (The model...not your underpants.)
Will this build be included in a diorama ?
Quote from: Gordon Enquist on July 26, 2014, 06:22:26 PM
Will this build be included in a diorama ?
None of the other 214 models that he has built have been , so I suspect this one won't either . He will just stick it on a black MDF board , scatter some gravel and sawdust dyed bright green and call it done .
Of course, that doesn't stop him winning gold every year at Euro Militaire !
Just catching up with things - so a few shots of "Isabel" the finished one - went for the open top version -evidently the open versions were easer to maintain and cheaper to build but not good on a rainy day! Gained a Silver medal at Euro this year.
Barney
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More to come only FOTKI is throwing a wobble !!
OK I think I'm back
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Best part of the weekend on the way home from the Euro Show -part of the 888.246 ceramic poppies at the Tower of London commemorating the 1914 to 1918 war.
Barney
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Beautiful work, Barney! Congrats on the silver medal!
I couldn't have said it better than Ray did. -- Russ
Well done—Sir Barney, well done.
awesome project!