At the start of a new year it looks like my main objective (as last year) is to see how many unfinished projects I can achieve so its off into the unknown again but rely try this time to finish something !
I have been looking at small saw mills and thought I would start with the "power plant" a small steam engine but can not find any measurement's as a rough guide to the size of these things -found loads of photos all museum type of things with nothing to take a measurement from or a guide size of flywheel or a person standing by the side looking at Marty's "Corliss project" he also states the same "Unfortunately I was not able to find plans/blueprints so I drew my own scaling the plans from photos and the few know dimensions."
any help would much be appreciated and you never know I might break my habit of wandering of and actually finish a project !!
Barney
If you find the engine size listed it should get you pretty close to the scale. A 9 X 12 engine would give you a nine inch bore and a twelve inch stroke. Add about four inches to each to allow for casting and you should be pretty close. What do you consider a small sawmill?
Bill
Does it have to be a steam engine ? If I was building a sawmill I would run it with an old lorry engine . What about an old Matador ? Surely you , the Lorry Engine King of The World could bang something together in your sleep . If you slept .
Happy New Year , Grinch !
Nick
Bill - well lets say I'm not talking "Westside Lumber Company" the best example would be the type in the book - The Kerry Tramway " on page 70 it shows a plan and a description of a "Scotch" portable saw mill which uses a 30hp steam engine (portable type on wheels) I'm going for a permanent version which uses a mill engine normally mounted on a concrete block -so its something that could handle logs up to 2ft/2ft 6in diameter.
Nick that's to easy! and you know I love a good headache ! it keeps me awake - saving the 1/35th stuff for the Euro show and going big to 16mm to the foot built 3 versions of steam engines in 1/35th all in the bin now things just did not look right !
Barney
going big with a headache.
Barney
I have a lovely little (horizontal) "mill engine" kit manufactured by Charles Brohmer.
The overall length is about 14 feet.
The flywheel is 4.6 feet.
It is a 8"!by 12" (bore and throw)
I could scan and send the elevations and some basic dentions.
Sadly there are mone on the elevations.
Marty
Barney perhaps you can pick something up from some of our "Mill" videos.
Here are a few of them that show the main engine a little bit
Rick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGtzvEFvjA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_wdRkxT7GI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj_avrB-0nE&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKNAWpbUfw8&feature=youtu.be
Quotethe best example would be the type in the book - The Kerry Tramway " on page 70 it shows a plan and a description of a "Scotch" portable saw mill which uses a 30hp steam engine (portable type on wheels)
Would a de-wheeled Clayton portable do?
Robey Portable c1907.
Thanks to every one for the information you have sent in - much appreciated at the end of it all I'm going for the wheel-less portable type this seems to be the one for smaller saw mills and I have even made a start !
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That's a relief, was worried that steam might mean an end to Lego blocks ;D
Nice start!
Doh! I just remember these pics I took up in Vermont. The engine is a bit different from the "usual" portable and you have already gone down a path. Maybe the details will be of some use. I thought it was an interesting looking machine. Ignore the colors(if you can)
It starts with this pic and goes on for a few more:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20941728@N05/11822921333/
Paul
Paul - Thanks very interesting photos and that paint job ! looks like some one used all there old paint up when they cleared the shed out
Barney
Made a start on the boiler – I have gone for the shorter version - cannot make out what the lump of wood is for on the side - it just makes the wheel support brackets an elaborate casting! But still they seem to leave them on! even when the wheels are taken off
Barney
Run out of rivets again
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acrylic Rod and tube used for the basic shapes
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and of course the Lego blocks
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Grandt Line rivets / nuts and bolts and some Titchy trains bolts
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Very Impressive !
Philip
Nice!
My guess is, the wood block is to spread the force from the axle, protecting the boiler/firebox from stress.
Here is a (low quality) photos of a mill we found out in the wilds of Maine. It was rather remote - 40 miles from the nearest paved road (and neighbor) and 1 mile from the closest logging road. Anyway, the power plant consisted of a horizontal boiler set on a crude stone foundation made from flat stones with minimal mortar. The small steam engine was used to drive a Westinghouse D.C. generator (still on the site). Apparently - as evident by the parts & pieces laying around - they had a large steam engine they used to power the mill itself but it had been removed.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kDvq5GNyXVc/UuGct3dPykI/AAAAAAAACEM/YHHe0542mto/s1152/100_2113.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ksVeVFerf7Y/UuGdKhI6ExI/AAAAAAAACEc/YMI4VaPGbBU/s1152/100_2111.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f1Hsyzy5NPs/UuGdNs1GbcI/AAAAAAAACEk/tfVm72bB4Yg/s800/100_2119.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-B9ebIbYuUek/UuGdiQQ3EfI/AAAAAAAACE0/Rfv8eL31qGU/s1152/100_3203.JPG)
The wood beam and axles are parts of ether a wagon or a set of truck wheels. The wagon or truck wheels could be used to move the engine from place to place and then be easily removed and the engine set in place for use on a set of sills. I would set the engine on a permanent set of sills and do away with the wagon parts but I don't know what kind of saw mill you are modeling. There should be two mounting seats one at the front and one at the rear of the fire box just like the photo shows. I got this information from the book "Encyclopedia of American Steam Engines" (by Jack Norbeck) there are photos of both the wagon and truck wheels.
Barney I'm a big fan of your work but this boiler has many problem. There are details missing and some details that are just not right.
Gordon Birrell
Thanks to you all for your comments –Ray with reference to the wood I think that sounds about right
Terry those photos have got real atmosphere thanks for sharing them
Gordon please put me right about what's wrong! But remember I'm a "freelance prototype modeller" or you might even call me a "look alike" type. My intentions are to go up the middle and not particularly model any particular prototype type – I have looked at many of these boiler/ engines even of the same make and they all seem to differ in many ways. But I would much appreciate your views.
Thanks Barney
A single wheel bracket
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I know its a different make and a short version - but I love it
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Barney,there's a good photo (the Eclipse) of some of my problems #1 the steam dome that is what they look like you can't freelance that detail. # 2 the nice clean pattern on the stay bolts on all sides of the fire-box (I use a smaller rivet for the stay bolts than the rivets I'm using on the seams) #3 You have too many rivets or nuts.above stay-bolts on the fire box and the back-head.
Are you modeling an engine with the seats for a wagon or is your axles mounted on the side of the fire box? If so you don't need the wagon seats.
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Here's a model that shows a two piece truck wheel set-up. If the front and back wheels were connected with framing it would be a wagon.
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aft/125670/Default.aspx
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Wonderful piece as always Barney. Looking forward to the next progress pics.
Gordon – I'm getting confused here (that's not a hard thing to be at my age and time of life) all this technical stuff – size of rivets – position of brackets – missing brackets – style of steam dome – you are right and correct in all your statements and I truly appreciate all the information and help you have given me but and I Quote from our Gordon "the flying Scotsman" this side of the pond there is always a but I'm not building a Frick Eclipse I'm building a plausible freelance steam engine taking ideas from all types of portable steam engines plus of course the total confusion I gained when I looked at 14 versions of Frick Eclipse portable steam engine ! All of which were the same type and model all with different bits and pieces added or removed throughout there life time .
I enjoy building my models this way as long as it measures up ok and it looks like it's a working piece of engineering with all the bits and pieces in the right place. It also helps in understanding how things work before I took this project on I had no idea how things like a steam governor worked the governors balls and all that! and the workings of the saw mill I had a idea but got it wrong in so many ways , but thanks to all you guys out there I owe you a lot for all the information I have gained
Thanks again
Barney
Well, Barney, if that's the case, don't forget the propeller and stirring rod. -- ssuR
(I know, I know. But I've lost my cotton pickin' mind. Hmmm. It might still be in Cleveland ....)
Ran across these in my files...don't know if they are of interest.
.....
....
....
Thanks Mark for the Photos - Run out of space so started again in 1/35th scale
Barney.
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Now you have to install all those rivets again! -- Russ
Now stocked up with rivets /nuts and bolts and nearly finished the FREELANCE boiler for the saw mill in 1/35th
Barney
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Looking good!
Cant wait to see it in paint.
Looks like it has chicken pox now!
Marty
Model pox. Looks great!
Are you certain real freelance boilers had that many rivets? -- ssuR
I think there is one to many rivets??? :-\
Outside of that looks great.
Jerry
Quote from: TRAINS1941 on February 24, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
I think there is one to many rivets??? :-\
Jerry
Yes , Jerry , but which one ?
Good Lord, he's back. Glad to see you again, Nick. Now go stand in the corner. -- ssuR
Quote from: lab-dad on February 23, 2014, 10:51:53 AM
Looking good!
Cant wait to see it in paint.
Looks like it has chicken pox now!
Marty
Ha, ha, my thought exactly! I have an image taken in Illinois in 1968 showing yours truly fully riveted by chicken pox... But as Russ is still recovering after having his retinas burned by my thumb images, I will keep it to myself. But I digress.
Excellent, inspiring modelling!
Quote from: finescalerr on February 25, 2014, 01:40:09 AM
Good Lord, he's back. Glad to see you again, Nick. Now go stand in the corner. -- ssuR
Well, I was going to tell you all about what I've been up to , but I don't think I'll bother now .
Quote from: shropshire lad on February 25, 2014, 12:17:17 PM
Quote from: finescalerr on February 25, 2014, 01:40:09 AM
Good Lord, he's back. Glad to see you again, Nick. Now go stand in the corner. -- ssuR
Well, I was going to tell you all about what I've been up to , but I don't think I'll bother now .
Most likely it would have been boring anyway!!! :D
Jerry
Quote from: TRAINS1941 on February 25, 2014, 04:08:29 PM
Quote from: shropshire lad on February 25, 2014, 12:17:17 PM
Quote from: finescalerr on February 25, 2014, 01:40:09 AM
Good Lord, he's back. Glad to see you again, Nick. Now go stand in the corner. -- ssuR
Well, I was going to tell you all about what I've been up to , but I don't think I'll bother now .
Most likely it would have been boring anyway!!! :D
Jerry
Well, you'll never know now .
Oh don't sulk Nick , big tough brickies don't do that sort of thing!!
Go on show show us what you have been up to ........ You know you want really ;D
Quote from: Gordon Ferguson on February 26, 2014, 01:09:18 AM
Oh don't sulk Nick , big tough brickies don't do that sort of thing!!
Go on show show us what you have been up to ........ You know you want really ;D
Us tough brickies have our sensitive side as well , don'tcha know ! I'll start a new thread later .
Anyway , it looks as if it is only us Phoenix types doing any sort of modelling , so I don't want to let the team down . All the Yanks seem to have gone into hibernation .
Not exactly hibernation. My workshop is under six feet of plastic and drywall dust. I can't even get in to grab a tube of glue. (That's the sticky stuff, right? I can hardly remember.) -- Russ
I reckon they are all rivet counting in there sleep !
Barney