Okie-Cokie then ..............I'm updating a new board so I thought I might as well post it here too, not meaning to sound dismissive, because I rather feel more like I'm throwing myself to the Lions here!! - I know a few of you might be familiar with the build so please forgive me - witnessing the resulting dismemberment of my fragile confidence should make up for it. I'm still building this little monster so whilst updates should be swift initially they'll slow down to a snails pace as you catch up with me!!
Right first official post, update, or WIP, or SBS ............... take your pick.
To my mind the first glaring anomaly in this body shell is the front screens. They're just so terribly wrong, now I'd decided not to do a Factory stock build but rather what's known as Rep' stock [Replica]. This gives one the latitude of being able to stray or deviate from the Factory spec's and produce a rendition that copies a "living" example. Actually it's a bit of a get-out clause to stop the nasal rivet counters giving you a hard time!!
So here's a pic' of the real item [courtesy of Andrew Milner]................ as a kid/youth I wouldn't have given them a second glance - but in hindsight they're pretty cute and funky looking.
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Notice how they have a "raised eyebrow" look to them...............
........... and that this has a distinct - "furrowed brow" look to it. The tops of the screens are just too flat, or level.
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The window bead is waaay to thick and clumsy looking - and although a difficult thing to replicate this has got to go.
Which leads us to our first serious problem...............................
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See that little bit of grey above the offside window beading? That is transparent resin - the whole of that top portion is wafer thin and is going to collapse as soon as I try and work the new shape of the windows - Grrrrr..already.
Anyhoo ..................... here's the other side cut out and put into something more sympathetic to its natural shape............
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It can be seen that I've managed to recover some panel work under the screen and used that"shift" to take the aperture higher into the roof-line.
Here's a pic of the dodgy side now out and with a bit of styrene infill bonded into the aperture. the windows just simply do not fit into the body equally and so I've had to try and build up the outside a bit in order to centralise them - not successfully it transpires but it is starting to "taste" like a Bedford CA now....................
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I've realised that I'm only going to be able to replicate the essence of this build at best ............. more a case of refining what's already here rather than trying to remodel every single anomaly.
This is how I intend to replace the glazing beads. It's a fussy little process but yields good results if you can persevere................
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Here's an example from a million years ago........
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This was quite complex - especially the rear window - but it does go to show how versatile the technique is?
Meanwhile back on-topic...................... this is how simple the procedure is.................
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Just florists wire - thin cyno and blu-tac .......... Oh and a goodly dollop of patience.
Here she is replete..........................
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Notice that I've placed a thinner wire around the inside of the side windows ready to receive the glasswork. Perhaps other things to note are new dentals, the originals were lost when I opened the grill up - Oh, and the grills been opened up. It looks appalling in this shot, they're not quite as bad as they look here, as most of the discrepancy's are because of the wavering state of the interior. The grill has had a lot of work done do it. The slots are now level on the outside and not angled, the inside edges are square and not round and the upper slots have their single downward slope to them - I'm still very unhappy with the grille seeing as it's such an important part of the "look". But I've also got to be realistic in what I can expect from this build.
The front vents have been engraved, as has the rain gutter around the roof, the slider capping has been replaced with something just a tiny bit more prototypical and wire beading has been placed into the engraved lines to represent panel gaskets.
Absolute loads of panel sanding to try and bring things just a little more in line with what one expects to see, and I suspect there's a lot more fiddling to do yet.................
See you in a bit.................
Having been the kind and generous "friend" who sold this pup to you this post serves to rekindle my guilt !
I have been fortunate enough to see more progress on this build, I can tell you its well worth waiting for them .............."ugly duckling into swan" comes to mind.
just wanted to ratchet up the pressure a tad on you Andi ;D
Looks good!
The original time point of this post was Christmas Day;- I really need to get a hobby!
So, how sad is this? .......... A Christmas day update!!
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Really just a continuation of the work being done to try and make sense of this kit.
Here you can see a more forward view revealing noticeably more wire work. Mainly this is done to represent the "pinch seams" that form the edges of certain panels. The door being an obvious one, hopefully it can be seen that the wire is left unfilled as it meets the body panel but yet filled in as it meets the door - I'm envisaging that when painted the resultant gap should provide a better illusion.
The other obvious use is in the seam that runs along the bottom of the van itself, this is complicated by the deviation as it runs up and around the wheel spats - also the door had to be lowered in order that it could appear to run under and behind it.
Two not so obvious additions are the increased width of the door pillar and the very subtle "flat spot" at the top of the front wheel arch.
I'll be working my way around the back soon and then a repeat on the other side [I always find that the tedious part - duplicating work already done]........... anyhoo ......... onwards and upwards
Merry Christmas everyone. - [belatedly of course].
Isn't it rewarding to find such a delightfully crude and frustrating kit? That is why I so often wonder about kit modification when scratchbuilding requires little more time and delivers a far better end product. Thank goodness 3D printing is becoming more affordable. Very nice job on the windows and trim; vast improvements. -- Russ
Hello Russ'................
There is a lot of truth in your statement - sometimes [as in this instance] I begin to wonder whether I would of been better building from scratch?? But, perhaps I wouldn't of chosen this particular vehicle - and there's the rub - to my mind it's a very familiar and charming subject, and one that I'm looking forward to seeing in my own dioramic setting.
I'm still working on this project and quite quickly the updates will appear in real time [which actually means slowly].
I think it's sheer bloody mindedness that's keeping me going on this because one solution just highlights the next problem - and in truth I'm not good enough anymore to deal with them ............... but I'll be buggered if I'll be beaten by a lump of plastic.
So stand by for a marked increase in tears and whimpering.
There's a resin vehicle kit here that needs similar "correction" ... not looking forward to that too much ... but certainly encouraged by your progress and fixes. And, regarding Russ' point ... it's one of those bodies that has loads of complex shapes ... and though it will take some work to fix it, still seems like a substantial head start compared to building from scratch.
Nice work!
Dallas
Wow, that is one weird looking vehicle! Very interesting to see your build.
Quote from: Andi Little on April 02, 2012, 12:38:36 PM
- and in truth I'm not good enough anymore to deal with them ...............
Not true...and I can't wait to see what you do with it. Have fun and don't
stress out over every little flaw. It's good to see a 1/25th scale car around here!
Hey All............
....... Perhaps it's not for me to criticize or endorse this kit - at least that's not my intention. But rather just to chronicle the build, its successes and then - less so.
I think it's fairly obvious, or will become so, where the shortcomings are; and you might even hear me whinge on occasion. But I think the fact will always remain that this is the only game in town if you want to get a head start in building an example of this pugnacious little character.
I think if pushed I would state the obvious ...... this is not a kit for a beginner - nor even the faint hearted.
And all ......... many thanks for comments - it pleases me to think you're following along.
So, without any further ado ....................this as a reminder of where we started.......
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And moving on a little................................
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Perhaps the main things of note here are:- The straightening of the rear "van-body" panels, the building up of the rear wheel spats - the whole thing is so far out that to try and build it as per the prototype would require just too much work that would just result in throwing another measurement out - so with some judicious "pushing and pulling" I've managed to create the illusion of what I'm after if not museum accuracy.
I've created the "flat-top" effect to the front wheel arch, built up the froward and rear edges of same and re-profiled them to something more akin to the vehicle itself. Re-scribed the door and engraved it to get a better feel for the notion that it is a sliding assembly, and also built the base of the door up ready to create the running seam against it. Filled the completely wrong fuel filler door and filled the spat to "proud"! as I want this to appear slightly "ill-fitting" ready for distressing when it comes time to decorate it.
But just look!! - at the "HUGE" droop in the rain gutter and door valance - Oh groan - one repair just throws into view - yet another problem!!!
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So, what's going on here then? - well you can see more modelling around the front wheel arch, more subtlety and a softer feel to to look of it, a deeper shut line" for the door with the leading edge lowered below the level of the front wing - again to give the feel of being two separate items as opposed to just a single adjoining surface. There has been a lot of scraping and modelling of the front wing where it meets the A post and makes the transition around from the bonnet to the side of the vehicle - nothing outrageous just enough to take the "Die-cast toy" look off of it.
The body panel has been shortened awaiting the rear door seem. And obviously a new door valance and rain gutter - still awaiting a little more reducing and shaping but I think already looking a whole lot better?
Final shaping of the rear wheel spat and now waiting for it's "wire" seam, plus a newly scribed fuel filler door, although I think the "finger pull" is a bit big and will need "knocking back" a touch.
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A quick look around the front - mainly to allow us to see that all the judicious scraping a sanding is beginning to result in a much "sharper" look to the front and it's starting to really carry that "pugnacious" quality of the original. Only real work of note is the "line" placed between the screens and through to the roof this will form the spine of the subtle "V" that's again a distinctive styling cue of the MkI version of the original. The later Mk's carrying a shallow and then much deeper panoramic single piece screen.
More soon hopefully.............
Appreciate all the details of the trials & tribulations here ... as mentioned previously, it's encouraging for one or more of those "yet to 'inish" projects! ;) -- Dallas
Well - Earwig-Ho.............another back dated update - apologies to those that know where the latest ones are being posted - [there is no real rhyme or reason] - it must seem terribly disjointed?
So, an apology before the pic's - this ones all about the windows, and they're pretty grimy! I've fixed them in temporarily with Blu-tac and Pratt stick - and this has left them looking a bit second hand - this will be either addressed at final assembly - or I'll hide it with some judicious road-dirt over the glazing.
On then........................
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How disgusting is this???? - It's a bliddy mess in here, and folk wondered why I wasn't prepared to open the doors - I'd still be in the "clean-up" stage.
Main thing to note though is the rebate that I've cut around the inside of the glazing wires - bit difficult to see but should be apparent if you squint hard enough. This did take a long time because of the disparity between the "chalky" nature of the resin and the "diamond hard" dry cyano. Blew one set of wire surrounds out and had to redo them once - couple of three repairs too.
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Here's the inside of the side windows - you really are going to have to forgive me the state of the interior here. But you can see from the pic' a new set of "frames", these work better from the outside and look a bit more authentic than the wires I moulded in originally........... again with the rebate.
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And now from the outside ........... the frame even in the raw looks a lot better to my eye, and I've cracked open the sliding window for a more "lived in" effect - the drivers [other] side more so!
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And from the front ............... because I've got to take the screens out again they're not pressed "home" but you can see how they fit closer to the surface of the steelwork ridding the model of that horrible tunnel effect you get from kits/diecasts etc.
You can probably also see the "yellow" milliput that I've used to flush the surrounding steelwork to the wire frames and also build up the "widows peak" or "Vee" into the screen, this is subtle but definitely there on the early "splitscreen" CA's. More work to do around the wheel arch but some of that texture is being kept for R&R [Rot and Rust] later in the build.
I'm glad this bits over as I had convinced myself it was going to be a kill-or-cure part of the build - and so it was. But glad that it's over as I'm a bit more confident - enough even to continue ........... although now I've got those ruddy awful back doors to sort out.
Looking good! What are you using for the glass?
Looking good Andi, but come on share with these good people the work you have done on the rest of the van and especially the rear doors!
You won't be disappointed folks
What an unforgivably difficult upgrade! -- Russ
On with another "catch-up" update.
And another hard won update it would seem?
I had been having the devils own job getting some bench time, and I think to be honest I'd been avoiding it a bit to - as I'd starting to feel like this darned thing was fighting me at every turn. I know the excuses are starting to wear a bit thin but I can still see the problems stretching out in front of me - time to turn up the FI factor methinks.
And so; anon then....................
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First things first - I've scribed out the door shut-lines to form a better illusion of them being moveable surfaces, cleaned off the hinge and the window surround detail. I felt this was a bit clumsy and also thought I wanted them to be "opened" up - we'll see how much of a mistake that was!!
So, marked them up and drilled four radiused corners.
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A simple shot of the resulting orifice............. note how thick the wall depth is, this is better than most but is still inconsistent in its depth and will cause silly problems later.
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Here you start to see where my wisdom let me down somewhat? - I couldn't rebate from the back due to the inconsistencies of the wall thickness, plus it was a tough reach to perform anything particularly subtle by way of rebating. So I chose to rebate from the front, notion being to "glaze and fill" but the wall thickness wasn't the only inconsistencies. The resin itself was exhibiting all sorts of different characteristics - brittle hard in places then sort of chalky like soapstone making it a heck of a job to gain any kind of accuracy in the engraving - in the kits defence though I'm pretty poor at it! ......... note favourite home made tools for engraving therein!!
Actually that little chisel [with blue trim] is one of my "Go to" tools that I have on my bench all the time and usually reach for first - it's a broken "slotting file" that I ground a chisel edge to and jammed into an old wooden handle. I'll be lost when it wears out or breaks.
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Here's just a quick pic' of the first method of making the wire frame - this I thought of as I needed to make two identical ........ you may at this point guffaw! It was actually way too soft to make a consistant form and I gave up the idea after several failed attempts. In the end I went with what I know and just formed one in the hand to a drawn pattern and then tweaked as necessary.
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And here it is with an acetate window trapped beneath. I shall "backfill" the door frame once it's glued in firmly and just leave a small ridge of wire around to represent the rubber seal.
Having said this it was such a bliddy bear to get this far I have zero confidence in being able to produce another window that will be the same size and in the same place as the first. Perhaps back in a day I would of took it in my stride but I think this thing has got me a bit gun shy?
So I've come up with an idea to establish a back-story that entails the other window being sheeted over either as a poor repair or even as a means to mount a steel roof ladder against the door - But in truth if I have to struggle with this darn thing much more it'll go back in the box to "give me a rest" and basically never see the light of day again.
But it is a great subject - the only game in town in fact ........... so it really deserves better than that. Plus Gordon only flogged it me because he assumed I was actually going to finish it................ grrr!
Well ................ finally, an update of sorts.................. I thought seeing as the previous update and this one sort of blend into each other I'd post this as a double update - and this does in fact bring us up to "real time" - ultimately things will slow down markedly from here!!!
I had really/have struggled for one reason or another, I think perhaps on a build like this there just seems no respite, one solution just leads to the next problem; and I think as much because it's not your own mistakes or errors that you're resolving?
Having said that, the thought of having to cut a duplicate window really filled me with dread - but I've managed it to a lesser or greater degree?
Here you go then...............
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Both windows cut out and looking reasonably similar??
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So then of course you cut the glass to suit - glue it in [smearing the glazing more it seems by trying to be careful not to]! Fix wire surrounds and then slather in green goop.
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A bit rough looking I know - kind of sort of meant to do that - you'll see later that the doors have been strained and roughly treated, lots of damage due to being worked hard - it remains to be seen if I can pull it off and it not just look like a really bad piece of modelling?
The glazing will be restored with future but will only be patinated again eventually.
I've tried to show these hinges in a step by step fashion, you should be able to work out how they go together - if you squint hard enough [9 pieces per hinge].
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Still a bit ropey looking but you can see the "sprung" doors here [still thinking about doing one of the bottom corners too] - I'm hoping I can bring out the best bits and hide the worst when it comes to detail painting??
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The rear is finally looking a bit more complete - if not decidedly scruffy, the large "buffer" looking objects are in fact a rubber fitting that the indicators sit on - they need shortening a touch - although to the eye they look right enough? There are discs faired in ready for the brake lights and the reflectors.
I know it's only a small victory, and not obvious to the general viewer but in this pic' I've noticed with much satisfaction just how straight and true the panels are looking - nice! ...............As I said - small victory's.
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And just another shot to give you an alternative angle to the dangle.
The worrying thing - As I know in the grand scheme of things I've only just started this bliddy thing..................
................................................... :'(
As I said worth waiting for ......... It certainly looks a lot straighter now , no longer the blob!
I am almost,almost tempted to get one of these vans again after seeing what you are doing to it ................ And if I do and fail again I know who can sell it on to .........after all Andi after doing the van a pick-up or a milk float will be easy :D
You may have been better off starting with a rectangular block of fire wood... or one of Fitchen Foo's Kalamity Toaster Tanks... as they seem to be closer in shape to your goal than the original Bedford kit ;D That is some great putty and scribe work there, Andi. Which products are you using for your putty work - I'm seeing two compounds?
I'll also be test driving your window frame technique at some point. Truly a silk purse from a sow's tattered and cauliflower'd ear.
Very nice work! Hang in there!
I got a headache imagining the problems you encountered. But your skill overcame the crudeness of the kit you're working with. All in all, I'd have preferred to draw the thing in 3D CAD and save my handwork for the finish. -- Russ
Andi this is really beautiful work. When I lived in London I rode my bike behind pleant of these old Bedford vans and you have captured the battered character of rear doors perfectly. It is also very impressive how you are setting the windows in place with a gasket. I had often wondered how to achieve this effect, and you have shown us one way, which I suspect, if I tried would result in an airborne model.
Thanks for the step-by-step. It is very very intersting.
Narayan
Hi Narayan ................ we haven't spoken for some considerable time now, but it's nice to know you're still keeping tabs - and of course thanks for the encouragement.
As ever cheps a stuttering update ....................
If you think this is getting tiresome imagine how I feel? But, onward and upward as they say.
Right then after firckling around the back [!!!] I thought it time to move back to the front - and groan - now I remember why!!
Just look at those headlights??
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Everything is just so soft and wrong, now I'm realistic in my abilities to repair these discrepancy's and even though I get frustrated at my struggles to achieve what it is I'm after ............... I just don't seem to be able to invoke the FI factor and simply move on!
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As a quick aside you might notice I just had to get rid of those louvres and replace them with something a bit more robust.
Also ...................Those resin bezels were taken off and I sourced a new pair from the spares box. These were offered up and bedded into a dollop of Green milliput - taking care to orientate and align them.
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Once the bezels were removed it gave me a new set of headlight buckets with which to reshape the front of the wings - probably not picture perfect but a much more sympathetic shape considering the original. ......... [Even these just look better don't they, or is it just me]?
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Once dry they're given a basic shape and then a topcoat of "white" putty [so I can see where I'm going/been]. Just smoothed at the mo' with a wet finger??
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Bezels back in so I can finalise the shape of the wings.
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And then with a large part of the shaping done. There'll be more obviously but absolute final licks will be done after some primer-filler coats so I can really see what I'm dealing with.
Might be worth noting that there is a new trim piece [upper lip] - this just makes the lower lip now look all bad - and I'm really resisting the temptation to rip out the grille and replace it with a new sheet one [groan].
It's starting to look better though isn't it ------- Isn't it?
Double PS ............................................
This is the reason I've slowed to a crawl with barely any bench time at all..............
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Gus - slayer of daffodils.
Tibetan terrier - 14wks ................ swings wildly between lunacy and unbelievable cuteness
Heck...with all the other work you've done a new, scratchbuilt grill would look better anyway.
Looks good so far.
Quote from: Andi Little on May 03, 2012, 09:24:13 AM
If you think this is getting tiresome imagine how I feel? But, onward and upward as they say.
;D ;D ;D
Indeed! We'll all laugh and cry and cheer you on ... laughing at the times we've faced the same sort of issues ... crying as we realize we've got some of them ahead of us on our own projects ... and cheering as you forge on. Yes, it is shaping up ... and, yes, you'll fall victim to Ken's urging and rebuild that grille too! ;)
Quote from: Andi Little on May 03, 2012, 09:24:13 AM
................ swings wildly between lunacy and unbelievable cuteness
Delightful! I'm struggling to type this as a cute, lunatic cat alternates between climbing over my keyboard and biting my arm for attention. Crazy but good-natured animals are a lot of fun. :)
Well, I succumbed to my apparent need for self harm! - and decided I really couldn't live with the grill - truth be told I couldn't ignore how bad it was right from the get-go as they say. But I was hoping that I could "go blind" regards the problems.
However, having posted this about - I cross pollinate a couple or so of boards [apologies to those that are present on those boards also]. The general consensus was that I should give it a go or live with the regret - and I think that's what swung me......... knowing that I didn't do it when I could of.
Anyway, here's how it started........................
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This is what I'd arrived at - and in hindsight it was even worse than I'd remembered - it's no wonder I was a bit downcast by it!!
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And this gives us a little insight into the less obvious problem!!
Once the grille is marked up on the vehicle you can see how the kit grill is pyramidal in its nature - the actual grille is if fact parallel with just two nostrils above............ you'll see at the end - and what a difference it makes subconsciously.
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Open wide!!! .............. this was harder than it looks than just cutting the hole into the model. I spent quite some time working out the spacing and just what I had to work with in order to make it look right - there's a bit of fudging going on over the assembly but it came out better than it was - I think/hope?
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And speaking of assembly this is how it happened - basically cutting over wide strips these were "notched" into the grille opening and then a spacer placed below and than above to give support and provide the basis for the central wide bar that appears in the original.
Bottom left you can see the little tool that I made up in order to make sure the next "notch" above was both accurate and level for the next bar.
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This was frustrating - I was so wrapped up in getting the spacing right I'd completely overlooked the depth element of the grille. and there is a marked "proudness" to the centre of the grille leaving a decidedly unflattering "flat" look to it. Thus I ended up "skinning" the grille bars in order to give me the necessary depth to sand back into; and I was quite annoyed with myself too as I know from experience the more you introduce and fuss at something the more opportunities you find for buggering it up.
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BUT - after much fiddling, filing, filling and sanding - we arrive at something akin to the original grille, the radiused ends were just filled with a bit of Milliput and then "swizzled" with a wet drill shank - once cleaned up I think it worked remarkably well?
It's much neater now, both the height and depth of the bars - and see what I mean about the parallel nature of the grilles - much better - huh?
I'm close to the point where I have to put it into primer [eek] which will no doubt make some of it look better for pulling it together - and worse because it'll highlight those many flaws I know I'll find.
You could of course probably pick this to pieces as it is - but I'm calling it done - and so you don't have to scroll back up and back down here's the starting point again....................
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Sorry it's been a bit slow - this has been a bit more involved that I'd hoped. Gus is being a complete horror and the Optician was startled to find I could do anything at all!!! - New [bliddy expensive] spec's are apparently going to help a bit??
Cheers chep's.................
Already posted elsewhere my admiration for this work so will not bore you again.
Got to say though I am really looking forward to seeing what you do with the paint job.
p.s. made good progress this week on the Town and Country tyre master hope to try and cast from it next week
I still think you're nuts. But keep going. -- Russ
Terrific work, and inspiring!
Ah, so the "before" (first) and "after" (er, last) photos ARE the same ... had to do a bit of reading there! ??? ;D
Okay then ... the "in-between" photos look promising ... let the madness continue! BTW, neat approach to wedging in the horizontal bits. -- Dallas
OK Dallas - here you go! definitely the latest pic's in correct order. You can tell they're the last ones 'cos they're "yellow"!! ( ;) )
For everyone else just a top-up update.
I've put the body into filler - a primer filler to be exact......... and before anyone beats me soundly I did nothing to the body at all - no scrubbing with alcohol - dish soap or anything - equally I have not fettled the bodywork since; and I know there are areas that will need addressing - work - massaging and general finessing. BUT, I am so chuffed at how everything has tied in together, a dozen or more times better than I'd hoped for, and in comparison to what I've done what needs doing is a walk in the park. Plus a lot of the natural bumps and bangs will be utilised as a patina or distressing on the actual vehicle - figuring that seeing as this has been naturally rought it should negate any contrived effects - or at least diminish them?
And without tooting mine own horn! - The grille was so worth doing; a bit more nibbling and it will look so much better again.
Here go then.....................
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I actually feel like I'm able to make a start on some other projects now [daren't before as I would of just sunk beneath the waves methinks]. I have a lunatic resin fish to do [Yes Michael, I did gain one on the black market] but of course there's the Cat' 10 which beckons - if not just because there seems to be an underground group build going on that I'd like to join???
Anyhoo ............ more anon.
Hmm. Looks exactly the same. Did you change anything? -- ssuR
Nope, not really. Just wanted to show it all in it's primer state - a sort of warts and all shot before further fettling.
Or is thou taking the pisseth - and if so which one of us has to go to the corner, bearing in mind of course you're the top dollar boss ..................[kind of just answered my own question haven't I]!!....?