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General Category => Painting & Weathering Techniques => Topic started by: mad gerald on March 12, 2012, 03:26:23 AM

Title: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on March 12, 2012, 03:26:23 AM
G'day all,

seems like I'll have the chance for some "spare minutes" for the benefit of modelling. One thing where I got stuck for a while is to make plaster look like old concrete.

Some time ago I tried to make a fundament for my old shed from plaster, with a small amount of mixing colour to get it pre-coloured in gray, followed by some coats of highly thinned water colour. But the result does not even come close to the look of old concrete ...  :P

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2F03-anlagenbau%2F03-02-schuppen-p1040038.jpg&hash=56543f61346542e9d672c18112bb397b9bd80367)

I have some prototype pictures of old concrete, but I do not manage to get/find/use the right colours and/or techniques. Anybody out there to put me on the right track colourwise ... ?

Cheers

Edited - misspelling
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster liek old concrete
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on March 12, 2012, 04:14:12 AM
Think you might find this thread helps

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=446.msg9402#msg9402
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster liek old concrete
Post by: BKLN on March 12, 2012, 05:56:40 AM
I have found the color to be crucial for real looking concrete. There is a misconception the concrete is grey. Cement is grey, but not concrete. Depending on the sand used you will get something a lot more sand colored.

I suggest a base coat of a light sand color, then some darker washes or pigment to bring out texture.
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster liek old concrete
Post by: David Emery on March 12, 2012, 06:31:25 AM
Sometimes concrete has a slight greenish cast to it.  (That's also true of Floquil Driftwood stain.) 

As far as texture, I've gotten some good results with Liquitex Ceramic Stucco, as described here:  http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35545&whichpage=3

dave
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster liek old concrete
Post by: Scratchman on March 12, 2012, 11:13:37 AM
Here's a link to how I did my concrete for my vault privy. The finish is over a wood base.

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=128.0

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster liek old concrete
Post by: Scratchman on March 12, 2012, 11:18:23 AM
Here's two photos of old concrete.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3061%2F3053447911_4c2d7983b9_b.jpg&hash=d9f342ac9250e1926e75069d26707435fb58509b)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3145%2F3054281446_047ab39cfb_b.jpg&hash=746b266b577d4b1e7eb1615d28b4e8f168917611)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster liek old concrete
Post by: Ray Dunakin on March 12, 2012, 10:58:21 PM
Gordon, that old jail is pretty nifty. Where is it located?
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster liek old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on March 12, 2012, 11:37:11 PM
Gerald,

I tend to use very thin washes of Floquil "Congrete",and a grey color, and maybe some spot washes/staining with other colors...all very diluted, and applied in layers.

I have also done the sameas above ..thin washes...with Vallejo acrylics.

I will see if I can find my photos and colors I used.


Marc
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster liek old concrete
Post by: Scratchman on March 13, 2012, 01:05:03 AM
Ray, the jail is in the ghost town of Soldier summit.

http://www.google.com/search?q=soldier+summit&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=3_xeT7biLZToiAK_h4njBA&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=898

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=898&q=soldier+summit+utah&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x874e8024dc66963f:0xe551c12aeca312b4,Soldier+Summit&gl=us&ei=-_5eT5u6F4SxiQLWtqm5BA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=2&ved=0CC8Q8gEwAQ

Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on March 13, 2012, 12:08:55 PM
G'evening all,

thanks, I very much appreciate your support ... I'll give it another try ...

Quote from: marc_reusser on March 12, 2012, 11:37:11 PM
I have also done the sameas above ..thin washes...with Vallejo acrylics.

I will see if I can find my photos and colors I used.
... would be nice (but only if you're not too busy) as Vallejo is better available at this side of the pond ...

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: BKLN on March 14, 2012, 06:09:12 AM
Another quick note:
I noticed that your concrete appears very smooth and clean for a foundation of this kind. A shed would most likely have a more coarse texture, especially considering the large scale you are building in.
(fein gesiebter Vogelsand in die Farben gemischt, wuerde eventuell auch die richtige Textur ergeben)
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on March 15, 2012, 01:04:48 AM
Christian,

Quote from: BKLN on March 14, 2012, 06:09:12 AM
Another quick note:
I noticed that your concrete appears very smooth and clean for a foundation of this kind. A shed would most likely have a more coarse texture, especially considering the large scale you are building in.
(fein gesiebter Vogelsand in die Farben gemischt, wuerde eventuell auch die richtige Textur ergeben)

thanks for pointing that out ... I was only wondering why my concrete looks ... umm, well ... like coloured plaster ... but it's not only the colour - it's the texture too! I completely have overlooked that. (Deinen Tipp mit dem Vogelsand werde ich mal testen)

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on March 16, 2012, 03:22:33 PM
Gerald,

Sory it took so long to get back to you, but was trying to find the correct photos...no luck, but did fined these of a 1/35 "Panzerturm" build....its not perfect, but maybe of some use.

The concrete here was made by casting plaster (Hydrocal) into a wooden form made of strip basswood, to give a "board form" texture. Once the plaster was set (not fully dry...it was still cool/damp to the touch), the forms were removed. Some of the plaster stuck to the forms and caused a "spalled" look to the surface in areas. I then came in with a Micro-Mark wire pencil, and dabbed/stabbed at the surface to create pitting/texture, and represent damaged, poorly cast/poured, or decaying surface areas.

Once this was completely dry., I used very diluted Floquil "Aged Concrete" and old dirty Floquil paint thinner, to stain the surface.  This same effect could be achieved using highly diluted Vallejo acrylics.

For scale, the face of the piece is about 3cm tall.

HTH.

Marc
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on March 16, 2012, 03:24:02 PM
One more.
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on March 16, 2012, 03:24:47 PM
Last one.
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: finescalerr on March 17, 2012, 12:48:55 AM
Not perfect? It's a perfect replica of imperfection! And, I should add, an excellent representation of concrete. -- Russ
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on March 17, 2012, 12:13:22 PM
*DANG* ...  :o ... now THIS looks the part!

Quote from: marc_reusser on March 16, 2012, 03:22:33 PM
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but was trying to find the correct photos...no luck ...
... nevermind ...

Quote from: marc_reusser on March 16, 2012, 03:22:33 PM
...did fined these of a 1/35 "Panzerturm" build....its not perfect, but maybe of some use.

The concrete here was made by casting plaster (Hydrocal) into a wooden form made of strip basswood, to give a "board form" texture. Once the plaster was set (not fully dry...it was still cool/damp to the touch), the forms were removed. Some of the plaster stuck to the forms and caused a "spalled" look to the surface in areas. I then came in with a Micro-Mark wire pencil, and dabbed/stabbed at the surface to create pitting/texture, and represent damaged, poorly cast/poured, or decaying surface areas.

Once this was completely dry., I used very diluted Floquil "Aged Concrete" and old dirty Floquil paint thinner, to stain the surface.  This same effect could be achieved using highly diluted Vallejo acrylics.
... thanks for your efforts - very much appreciated!

I'm gonna try the technique you described, first with the plaster I bought (may be the wrong choice: it's called "modelling plaster" and has a very even surface and is brilliant white) and if I fail, I'm gonna get me some Hydrocal, which seems to have quite a different consistency and texture ...?!

Have located a local dealer which stocks this, which I guess must be familiar?

http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/210203/Spachtelmasse-Lightwight-Hydrocal-900g (http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/210203/Spachtelmasse-Lightwight-Hydrocal-900g)

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on March 17, 2012, 03:15:07 PM
Gerald,

I don't believe the Hydrocal is light-weight. The product I use is from a company called Woodland Scenics.

M
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on March 17, 2012, 03:26:52 PM
Quote from: marc_reusser on March 17, 2012, 03:15:07 PM
I don't believe the Hydrocal is light-weight. The product I use is from a company called Woodland Scenics.

... umm, well .. this item mentioned in my link above IS from Woodland Scenics ... just wondering now ... even when I visit Woodland Scenics' website http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/TerrainFormation (http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/TerrainFormation), they show a picture of their Hydrocal with the addition "lightweight" on top of the package ...  ???

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on March 17, 2012, 08:54:38 PM
Sorry.....didn't check the link because I was onmy phone. Yes, that is what I used....didn't recall that it was lightweight.
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: Scratchman on March 19, 2012, 02:31:28 AM
Here's another sample of old concrete.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6111%2F6996086853_aec79ec8fd_b.jpg&hash=f816007e01f7bad1a3e0edbb13285fb246fcf24a)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on April 07, 2012, 11:49:06 AM
G'evening all,

at first I'd like to thank you all for your input - really appreciate this forum and its members ...  :)

Even I did not manage neither to get Hydrocal yet, which is available over here, but IMHO fairly pricy (about EUR 11,50/kg) nor to get Floquil colours, which are really hard to get (only one online shop with a delivery time of approx. 3-4 weeks), I started another attempt:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2F05-05-beton%2F05-05-0001-gips-als-beton-p1040068.jpg&hash=fb1ad678c1f2ef266d2e0adff4c55a62f1fba416)

To get rid of the bright white of this modelling plaster I put quite a dose of coffee in (not joking) and removed the stripwood boarding a while before the plaster was set completely (still damp), but only a little plaster kept stuck on the stripwood boarding. Nevertheless this time I got some structure. I used a toothbrush (not having a Micro-Mark mini brush with brass bristles) dabbing and stabbing the surface to get some more structure.

Umm, well ... it worked so far ... curious if the colouring will turn out satisfactory this time ...

Cheers ... and Happy Easter      
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: nk on April 21, 2012, 06:06:08 PM
Gordon, The texture is crucial, and goes 90% of the way to making your concrete look right. I use very dilute washes of all different shades of both oil and acrylic paint as well as very dilute India ink. Repeated application of the dilute washes will give good results. Also I have found that the plaster will absorb the diluant on the paint almost immediately giving a hard edge to the wash. What I do to counteract this is to apply a lot of solvent to saturate the plaster first, then applly the wash and you will find that the edges of each application blend nicely. I have not had any problems with the plaster and paint acting like a chromatography experient, which is a relief!

Narayan
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on April 29, 2012, 12:18:15 PM
G'evening all,

your help ... and the circumstances, I finally managed to get hold of Floquil/Polly Scale colours and a box of Hydrocal ... enabled me to give this modelling technique another try.

I've got some plaster test objects on the left (including the big one in the background), precoloured with a shot of coffee, and 2 Hydrocal test objects on the right. During the first attempt I was not patient enough to apply various layers of thinned Floquil/Polly Scale and common water colour (objects in the background and second row). Then during the second attempt I used the same colours, but highly thinned and in several layers.

To achieve more structure on the surfaces I followed Marc's suggestions and removed the stripwood boarding while plaster/Hydrocal where still damp and used a wire brush to intensify the structure.

Compared to common plaster the Hydrocal seems to be less heavy, but more fracturable ... may be, I did not mix it precisely enough ...  ???  

At least IMHO the results show - as Russ would like to say  - a noticable improvement ... I hope so ...

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2F05-05-beton%2F05-05-0002-gips-als-beton-p1040232.jpg&hash=7fd52c1ddceffebfa69583ba0e4482496374b4ba)

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: finescalerr on April 29, 2012, 01:19:33 PM
A successful experiment. -- Russ
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on April 29, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
Based on the photo, I like the coloring/finish of the one on the far bootom right the best. They all seem to have too much tan coloring to them (they look more like a limestone than concrete)...A warm grey with hints of tan is good...they just seem too tan. The middle left and right ones look to opaque and "painted" to me.

Though the color is too tan for concrete, I think that the effect you achieved on the large piece is intersting for an application such as old plaster  building walls...like those that can be seen on old buildings in many European villages, especially Italy, Spain and France.


Marc
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: Malachi Constant on April 29, 2012, 03:01:10 PM
Looking good ... while I agree with much of what Marc said ... here on the east coast of the US, I've seen ALL of those shades of concrete!  It's a more humid (wet) environment here ... with more rainfall and lingering dampness than found out west ... so concrete is discolored by all of the organic materials falling from trees and plants, plus wet soil, molds (fungus, not the molds we use to make castings!), etc, etc.  So depending on the specific location, the surrounding vegetation and how much sun exposure a specific area gets, any/all of those colorings can be found here.  I've traveled in Germany a bit, but I didn't really study the sidewalks there!  (In Paris, however, I did notice that people are rather relaxed about letting their poodles "decorate" the sidewalks.  Damn poodle people!)  ;D  -- Dallas
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: granitechops on April 30, 2012, 05:40:07 AM
Quote from: Scratchman on March 19, 2012, 02:31:28 AM
Here's another sample of old concrete.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6111%2F6996086853_aec79ec8fd_b.jpg&hash=f816007e01f7bad1a3e0edbb13285fb246fcf24a)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Gordon any idea how old that culvert is?

very interesting shaping on the back face almost in the style of wood panelling
Why would anyone go to that trouble to get that effect? unless he was an old stone mason in a new trade carrying over his pride in his work?


Sorry for the intrusion Gerald, following your thread with interest
photo showing texture that I acheived on concrete path under building,
colour doesnt show up well I am afraid


Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on April 30, 2012, 06:36:23 AM
Quote from: granitechops on April 30, 2012, 05:40:07 AM
Sorry for the intrusion Gerald ...
... no problem, Don ...  :)

Quote from: marc_reusser on April 29, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
... A warm grey with hints of tan is good...they just seem too tan ...
... may be, my approach was wrong ... I'd better start with a warm grey, followed by some highly thinned layers of tan - instead of the other way round ...  ::)

So I definitely have to raise my supply of acrylic colours, especially Vallejo acrylics ... suggestions? Smoke? Black grey?

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 30, 2012, 11:11:02 PM
I've been wondering about that culvert too. It's pretty fancy for a culvert, and it looks like the pinkish parts have been painted or stained.

Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on May 01, 2012, 12:12:01 AM
Decorative concrete work like that culvert is not uncommon. I run across it frequently. Just means that someone may have actually designed it, or that the guy that built it was a "craftsman" (or at the very least cared about his job/work)...which was more common in those days than in these.

If this was built as a WPA project it would also be common/typical to lokk more designed/decorative.


Marc
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on May 04, 2012, 11:19:35 AM
G'evening all,

after having successfully completed another attempt ...  ;) ... I have a (different) result too ...

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2F07-07-blog%2F07-07-0003-gips-als-beton-p1040289.jpg&hash=5106525d66bea5536205c72d2dcd569a19e3939d)

... but I think it is still in need for improvement (that's the part me asking you for feedback  ;D) ...

One thing that really keeps annoying me are the tiny cavities you get while treating the Hydrocal with a wire brush ... you can drench the whole item with thinned colour ... and still there are some cavities shining bright white!  :P Not quite shure yet, if it is a question of adherence ... or if the colour simply does not even reach particular cavities ... ??? ... the latter opportunity is hard to believe, because the items did get several layers of colour!

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on May 06, 2012, 11:02:34 AM
G'day all,

I did another approach ...

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2F07-07-blog%2F07-07-0004-gips-als-beton-p1040292.jpg&hash=9f5f2379b50227a04032b35cab519688385dd0da)

... which turned out to look a little different than the other results ....

I think the main problem with that partly "artificial" look is the usage of common water colour (apart from acrylics) from a box of water colours like this one (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PK3MouqGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg), because the pigments seem to be to coarse and the colour is to covering, not translucent enough ... even when thinned ...  :P ... so further attempts have to wait until suitable acrylic colour arrives ...

BTW: I came across this concrete enclosure of a public parking lot today and determined it to be a fine prototype for concrete 'round here ...
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2F07-07-blog%2F07-07-0005-betonwand.jpg&hash=a146236e2c87dfb3b0660e893edf577171abdc32)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2F07-07-blog%2F07-07-0006-betonwand.jpg&hash=f840fd4542515bf60a992360c1c7cba9a5c8c012)

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: Malachi Constant on May 06, 2012, 11:35:45 AM
Those last pieces look quite fine!  Before you make yourself crazy examining them ... try sitting them against some sort of finished building or into a bit of modeled scenery ... just to see how they look "in context" (surrounded by other things).  -- Dallas
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: granitechops on May 11, 2012, 11:22:04 AM
Gerald, you said

>>One thing that really keeps annoying me are the tiny cavities you get while treating the Hydrocal with a wire brush ... you can drench the whole item with thinned colour ... and still there are some cavities shining bright white<<
Am I right in assuming the hydrocal is a powder?
if so perhaps you could try a little dilute grey acrylic in the water when mixing
I now dont mix powder fillers without it , unless I WANT white  finish
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on May 11, 2012, 12:29:44 PM
Quote from: granitechops on May 11, 2012, 11:22:04 AM
Gerald, you said
>>One thing that really keeps annoying me are the tiny cavities you get while treating the Hydrocal with a wire brush ... you can drench the whole item with thinned colour ... and still there are some cavities shining bright white<<
Am I right in assuming the hydrocal is a powder?
... yupp ...

Quote from: granitechops on May 11, 2012, 11:22:04 AM
... if so perhaps you could try a little dilute grey acrylic in the water when mixing
... spot on ... I'll do so the next time ... I suspect it's kinda question of "surface tension" with the Hydrocal - common plaster seems to provide a better absorption of the water colour or acrylic colour respectively ...

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: chester on May 11, 2012, 03:35:23 PM
Some fairly good luck eliminating those pesky white spots by diluting chalk powders in alcohol. One needs to keep the chalk in suspension (stir) but it does seem to seep into every pore (poor pour).
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: Malachi Constant on May 11, 2012, 03:57:52 PM
Try mixing some acrylic color into water ... then use that colored water to mix your plaster.  It might take a couple of tries to figure out how much color you need in the water, but that would allow you to get it mixed in and have color inside the plaster even when it chips.  -- Dallas
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on July 11, 2013, 01:08:25 PM
G'day all,

... shame on me, as I did not dare to make new attempts finishing this exercise ... but Marc's report 1/35 paper structure vignette (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1468.0) (from approx. page 10 on) encouraged me to make another attempt ... and here it goes:

I followed Marc's reference, except that I chose a different thickness (3 mm) as I did not have 0.060 styrene for a mold (I used wood strips instead). I only made two slabs measuring 31 x 31 mm, with a thickness of 3 mm. These dimensions in 1/16 scale would match the size of a common prototype concrete slab (500 x 500 mm, thickness 50 mm). I did not pre-colour the plaster und did not test cutting a larger sheet in shape. In the meantime I made a larger piece measuring 62 x 62 mm, which is going to dry over night.

At first I thought my stipple treatment unfortunately happened a little too late, as the surface was not cool/damp enough anymore, but IMHO it worked well enough for a frist try.

When dry,  I dampened the plaster again slightly with a paint brush and used some highly diluted Vallejo acrylic colours (different ones on left and right piece).

Pics do not show all details of structure and colouring, may be with a little luck I'm gonna do some better shots tomorrow ...

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0042-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010551.jpg&hash=e81ba22a7e537b765b0b202fbbba7c4b06314ecf)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0043-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010553.jpg&hash=d14a6d8e932a122eaef667748e33c728e4d8dbf9)

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on July 12, 2013, 01:08:13 AM
Gerald,

Great to see you experimenting with this.

It looks as if these are plaster only, and that you did not include any fine sifted dirt.?

My critique would be the following items:

1. Try tapping the mold with something while the plaster sets, to remove the air bubbles that are showing.
2. I highly recommend that you add coloring to the plaster, as it makes it far easier to work with the later washes and colors, as you are not fighting the white  of the plaster.
3. Consider using a paint other than Vallejo for the first color coats, Vallejo contains a lot of Latex, and even in washes, can tend to seal areas of the porus plaster causing smooth, dark and "painted" looking areas.

Look forward to your next pieces.



Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on July 12, 2013, 01:26:23 AM
Marc,

thanks for dropping in and your helpful advice ... already started wondering about the unwanted effects you mentioned ... so here are two close-ups - another larger sheet of pre-coloured plaster is in progress ...

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0044-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010559.jpg&hash=0bc3e7572e829f42ea5f3c0d9ebf41afeabb5c69)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0045-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010560.jpg&hash=3bdb40f5b9a59e36dbbe5ac3b8771d99e892ab3b)

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on July 12, 2013, 01:36:21 AM
On these last two pieces, the texture is bothering me...the to one has surface swirls/drags, that resemble what is know here as skip-trowel plaster for stucco walls, the bottom one, though I like the texture, it has the odd diaginal grooves...it looks more like some of the old  salvaged Limestone pavers I have seen/used.

I like the gdarker grey under wash on the first ine, nbut the  beige top was was applied to thick and begins to look painted on.


Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: Hauk on July 12, 2013, 02:34:54 AM
Its good to see that I am not the only one with a fetish for small plaster castings of concrete prototypes!

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ffundamenter_arty_w.jpg&hash=71feea050871f439a357946f52c0d4fd4a843e9f)
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: finescalerr on July 12, 2013, 11:20:20 AM
Those are truly adequate. HO scale? -- Russ
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on July 13, 2013, 09:42:43 AM
G'day all,

@Marc
Your words make me feel uncomfortable ...   ::) ... but you're bl**dy well right ...  ;)

As the larger sheet of plaster turned out to be a POS, I did not even think about colouring it.

As I don't have a large variety of water based colours available, I came to the idea: Why not modelling concrete with real concrete ... um well, or at least with joint mortar/grout (please correct term if not correct) ... ?

So I mixed some gray joint mortar with water, added some plaster and proceeded the same way as last time, creating 2 pieces measuring 31 x 31 mm, using the technique introduced by Marc. A little disadvantage is, that the joint mortar needs approx. 12 hours before it dried completely, but IMHO the result is far more convincing as my attempt using (and colouring) plaster ...

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0046-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010566.jpg&hash=5a1b421285048e133786057072add6eaeb1c0727)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0047-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010588.jpg&hash=bb6e26e70eafbd8a9f31a782b4df4fe73f048d9c)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0048-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010585.jpg&hash=da63c74a4d1b28a527539e0c68994d4f56b8551a)

Quote from: Hauk on July 12, 2013, 02:34:54 AM
Its good to see that I am not the only one with a fetish for small plaster castings of concrete prototypes!
... these pieces really look tiny ... is this H0 scale ... and what do they represent?

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on July 13, 2013, 11:27:31 PM
Well, I think these results came out quite well....especially when they are in place, in context, and have some additionl dirt and staining on them.

The only nit-pick for your final pieces, is to not round off the outside corners and edges so much...even when tooled, and old, concrete squares /paving still generally has a pretty square-ish and straight-ish edge.
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: Hauk on July 14, 2013, 02:10:47 PM
Quote from: mad gerald on July 13, 2013, 09:42:43 AM
... these pieces really look tiny ... is this H0 scale ... and what do they represent?

Yes, they are H0 scale pillars for the warehouse I´m building.
I went to the trouble of making board by board formwork, but I am not sure it is qoing to show in the end. But it was sort of fun making the little buggers.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/63580_510984635609551_1826151237_n.jpg)

They are a little under an inch tall.
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 14, 2013, 11:53:50 PM
Wow, those look even better in close-up than they did in the wider view!  -- Dallas
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: chester on July 15, 2013, 01:37:07 PM
Well certainly nothing looks quite like cement than cement itself. Better yes.

Nice piers Hauk.
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: mad gerald on July 20, 2013, 01:10:53 PM
G'day all,

Quote from: Hauk on July 14, 2013, 02:10:47 PM
Yes, they are H0 scale pillars for the warehouse I´m building.
... ah, thanks ...

Here I have an example of some brandnew and older concrete paving slabs for a better comparison (as actually some of them had to be replaced on my front yard):

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0049-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010592.jpg&hash=798dcde25778c55c1eb96166014677fe4d6d0186)

I changed the mixture increasing the plaster part in relation to the joint mortar part, but the compound is still a little fragile/crumbly ... colouring was done with artists water colour instead of acrylic colour because of the latter containing to much latex ...

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0050-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010599.jpg&hash=c88c4d636682ec7093c732fc610bea0411606aac)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de.feldbahnmodellbau.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2F07-07-0051-1zu16-betonplatten-P1010604.jpg&hash=ce859a59b0bd2686c1a9382ddc2aee6144346a9c)

Cheers
Title: Re: Help wanted: How to make look plaster like old concrete
Post by: marc_reusser on July 20, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
I like it! Very nice. Lovely shading and hues.