Westlake Publishing Forums

General Category => Modellers At Work => Topic started by: JESTER on February 02, 2012, 01:11:36 PM

Title: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 02, 2012, 01:11:36 PM
I'm making a fin that I will use as a master to cast 4 other fins.

I'm thinking I make it similar to an airplane wing where I cut out the vertical sections and glue them to the main shape. I guess I will fill it with Bondo and shape it according to the cross sections.

Is there any tutorials for something similar to this? Does anyone have any recommendations or ideas???
I'm not sure how to get the cross sections correct. I don't do 3D so I can't go that route.

I drew this to show what I'm trying to accomplish. The squared off tab on the fin profile drawing will insert into a tube.
It's convex on the top section and concave on the lower section.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg855.imageshack.us%2Fimg855%2F3278%2Ffinlw.jpg&hash=5b1fcc271abed859b452c5552b8a5d3308b6e772)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 07, 2012, 08:16:12 AM
Nevermind.

Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on February 07, 2012, 10:43:20 AM
Jester,

late in throwing my ideas, little problem with op on hand.

Here is how i would approach it ---- using card or plastic card

draw out the largest profile, end one ? as accurate to the shape you want , mark and cut out rectangular slot from centre line to one edge .... where one of your corners are.

Now if you have a scale, or full-size drawing of the piece you can mark on that where you have the rest of your profiles ..... suggest a regular spacing. from that you will have details of the maximum width and height at each profile station

cut these out as rectangles, place the first rectangle on top of your accurately cut first profile. Using a pair of compasses open them to the distance from the edge of the profile to a corner of the rectangle then use point of compass to follow curve of profile to draw curve on the rectangle .... do for the 4 ? edges . Cut out and also cut out rectangle slot on same plan as the first one

Follow this procedure for each profile station.

Cut out the shape of the fin in plan marking out the station points and cutting out the slots in these to correspond with slots already cut in the profiles slide on/glues your cross sections together

I would use something like blue foam to fill in the missing pieces as it is easy to sand

Sorry no pics for SBS and I hope it makes some sense ... having to type left handed seems to have confused the brain even more than normal

Just occurred to me  that if you type in via search engine "carving blue foam glider fuselage" which is what I have used this process for before you should find some more info/photos.
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 07, 2012, 12:20:28 PM
Thanks Gordon!! I'll post my progress.

I have a friend who does CAD and he's printing out all the cross sections.
I drew this out in Illustrator after I did that sketch. If I didn't get the CAD done, I was going to try to draw the cross sections using the skills I learned in 10th Grade Drafting class! If I could still remember! :D

I was told that if I use Bondo as the filler that I should use Basswood because the Styrene might warp as the bondo dries. What is Blue Foam? My friend used the expanding spray foam with good results.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg819.imageshack.us%2Fimg819%2F8913%2Ffinsv.jpg&hash=bf4b8652b376b02f8c3833285fdc442ed23b5cef)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on February 07, 2012, 01:05:19 PM
Jester , with CAD you should have no trouble plotting all the sections ......... and it will be a lot more accurate than my old fashioned steam powered method ............ especially as the form curves as well .

Blue foam ............ there is some info on it on this thread

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=404.0

about a third of the way down first page


But the spray foam will work just as well and probably a bit quicker ............ a suggestion I would make is to glue a piece of fine but reasonably stiff wire across the profiles along the line of the crest and the other edges  .......... think you will find this will give a good sanding line and keep those edges "straight", protect the foam as well as letting you have a uniform curve at these corners
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 07, 2012, 01:48:36 PM
Quote from: gfadvance on February 07, 2012, 01:05:19 PMa suggestion I would make is to glue a piece of fine but reasonably stiff wire across the profiles along the line of the crest and the other edges  .......... think you will find this will give a good sanding line and keep those edges "straight", protect the foam as well as letting you have a uniform curve at these corners

Good Idea! Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 10, 2012, 07:49:55 AM
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg812.imageshack.us%2Fimg812%2F5121%2Ffin01w.jpg&hash=3c98de572720de0380a6bf310197cf3229f13914)
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on February 10, 2012, 11:01:00 AM
Looking good Jester, look forward to watching you work this one up ............. reminds me of the fins in Tintin's rocket ship ;)
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: jacq01 on February 10, 2012, 11:44:42 AM

Jester,

you can built it up lke they do modelship hulls, Very thin waterline shapes glued together. Sand the protruding edges after the model is formed and the glue is dry.
Advantage is no warping.

Jacq
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 10, 2012, 01:28:53 PM
 jacq01, do you have a link to that type of build?

gfadvance, due to time constraints, my friend is building this off my plans so it's not me doing the work.
I'm working on the rocket and will be casting the fins once I get the master.

Here's the fin with spray foam added and roughed out.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg69.imageshack.us%2Fimg69%2F2963%2Ffin02.jpg&hash=69fb295367ea3e4d4736a5bfda0827d12b7d8d37)
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 14, 2012, 08:56:48 AM
Here's the final fin before casting:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg864.imageshack.us%2Fimg864%2F9292%2Fphotodb.jpg&hash=21bba0557e8643d9b96abe8d5807960f2392e301)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on February 14, 2012, 09:45:18 AM
Well Jester , your friend has done a nice job for you ;)

Would be interested to know what paint/primer he used to get that surface finish.


Glad you got it sorted out, let me know if you are going to do a production run ............... think I could have a bit of fun with paint on this 

Gordon
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: finescalerr on February 14, 2012, 12:17:25 PM
Gosharootie, that turned out nicely! -- Russ
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 14, 2012, 06:17:59 PM
I know he used bondo on top of the foam but I'll get the specifics.

He is currently making a studio scale Betty from Aliens Resurection.

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on February 15, 2012, 12:54:39 AM
Thanks,

out of interest is this based on or inspired by the Raygun Gothic Rocket Ship ?

Gordon
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 15, 2012, 06:39:52 AM
Gordon, no, its for a custom toy I'm making. The original toy is this rabbit on a carrot rocket.

I wanted to mimic the fins on the carrot. I'll cut off the fins on the toy and mount it to make it look like the tip of the rocket. I'm not really a fan of the Steampunk stuff at all. I love the Weta Rayguns though!

Rough idea
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F7248%2Ffinue.jpg&hash=47357f897057a66771730fb784be5dbd40fb8f4a)

Here's the original toy
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg844.imageshack.us%2Fimg844%2F3315%2Fbellicosee.jpg&hash=c0d92844b50bfd0a5215071b57d7cfbf430f2752)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: BKLN on February 15, 2012, 10:49:59 AM
Jeeez, Jester! This should have a little "NOT SAFE FOR WORK" tag.
:D
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 16, 2012, 01:45:56 PM
He said he uses Rustoleum Filler Primer.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc.shld.net%2Frpx%2Fi%2Fs%2Fpi%2Fmp%2F3551%2F5873618201p%3Fsrc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fmedia.mydoitbest.com%252FImageRequest.aspx%253Fsku%253D795288%2526size%253D2%2526NewSize%253D600%26amp%3Bd%3D0af067cf45227ce29e2ccbf519906ed307857aa9&hash=440cc32e34b001632636c3d826a1931d15c9ee6a)

Quote from: gfadvance on February 14, 2012, 09:45:18 AMWould be interested to know what paint/primer he used to get that surface finish.

Gordon
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 27, 2012, 09:26:32 AM
The fins are cast.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg718.imageshack.us%2Fimg718%2F9570%2F8bcf565a5f2f11e1b9f1123.jpg&hash=c5873865ab1a90a17fe89738eafb992a8b7d0ffd)
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: marc_reusser on February 27, 2012, 11:00:36 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 28, 2012, 07:20:06 AM
Thanks Marc!


Close up of the fins
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg696.imageshack.us%2Fimg696%2F991%2F99157477.jpg&hash=5b686423b1b081d082e713ea11f0717282cebe87)

Here is the graphic I'll be using.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg820.imageshack.us%2Fimg820%2F6084%2F77308466.jpg&hash=fedbc37a27f7bbafa32d2f880251337603db7d84)

Full shot
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg33.imageshack.us%2Fimg33%2F7290%2F63979576.jpg&hash=14537134fe2cbd9b01d5507dd46dc92d67e40672)

Here is a 3D pic of the fins in place.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg407.imageshack.us%2Fimg407%2F5844%2F43199069.jpg&hash=954ee285707c5a4bb57dcf9b444eeb1c7da8f25b)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on February 28, 2012, 07:55:22 AM
Well that idea worked pretty well ..... now looking forward to the paint job you do on it
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on February 28, 2012, 08:02:29 AM
I have to use some Magic Sculpt to fill in the area where the fin touches the PVC tubing. Ifilled the holes on the carrot last night and I hope to get it all ready for primer on Thursday.

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 05, 2012, 06:14:08 AM
I got some good ideas for rivets but I didn't trust my gluing skills so I bought some round head nails and used my pin drill to make the holes.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg192.imageshack.us%2Fimg192%2F9045%2F50927034.jpg&hash=6174b5288ccba2630ee4b6cfdb431ef75116dad7)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg833.imageshack.us%2Fimg833%2F8735%2F36447956.jpg&hash=3fe2fa7d767cd7d05782e59bc5c6401511d8b1bc)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg708.imageshack.us%2Fimg708%2F3210%2F63095204.jpg&hash=bcb0c18dc46fb85b20bf34395dda35f83a18f37a)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 06, 2012, 06:01:01 AM
Got the holes drilled for the top rivets.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg808.imageshack.us%2Fimg808%2F9939%2F0f71e3fc671811e18bb8123.jpg&hash=16d403d8c36a6380dc720633bdb7430ec2a5272b)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: finescalerr on March 06, 2012, 12:45:38 PM
Starting to shape up. Vaguely reminiscent of, but less streamlined than, the craft used by Rocky Jones, Space Ranger in the '40s or '50s. -- Russ
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 06, 2012, 03:35:53 PM
Thanks, just got done adding the bunny and finishing the top rivets and primer.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg33.imageshack.us%2Fimg33%2F9296%2Fbbunny.jpg&hash=e4edb9e2385da8d133fcc8cecf7eb9b1d404083c)
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: marc_reusser on March 06, 2012, 10:32:18 PM
Sweet.

Photo makes it look like it goes from floor to ceiling in your house. :)

M
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 07, 2012, 08:00:43 AM
Yeah! I maxxed out my photo booth!

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 12, 2012, 11:42:00 AM
The major color scheme and graphics are done and I finished my initial chipping.

Now I can start the weathering.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg837.imageshack.us%2Fimg837%2F7708%2Fbbunny02.jpg&hash=106841cb2a271ed0dbc763be53c3bb3a282a6de9)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: finescalerr on March 12, 2012, 12:36:53 PM
I am nonplussed. -- Russ
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 12, 2012, 02:07:21 PM
Had to look that one up! I'm doing my best!!  :D

QuoteUsage notes
In recent North American English nonplussed has come to mean "unimpressed".[1] In 1999, this was considered a neologism, ostensibly from "not plussed", although "plussed" by itself is not a recognized English word.


Quote from: finescalerr on March 12, 2012, 12:36:53 PM
I am nonplussed. -- Russ
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: finescalerr on March 13, 2012, 12:56:06 AM
Well, I thought "nonplussed" meant "baffled", not "unimpressed". I am impressed and was merely joking about the lighthearted nature of the model. -- Russ
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 13, 2012, 08:25:12 AM
I'm just messing with you Russ!  ;D

I knew what you meant. I hope to wrap this up this week/end and ship it off next Monday!

Thanks to Chuck Doan and Marc Reusser for some painting advice!!
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 13, 2012, 08:35:21 AM
More work on the cone area. I used some gouache paint to get the streaks under the bolts


(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F7456%2Fbb03k.jpg&hash=e3f2be4817b551dd05cb29e2ff55f2ce943718fb)
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: finescalerr on March 13, 2012, 12:08:44 PM
Satisfactory.

Someday I gotta learn how to do that tricky paint stuff ... except that in the period I model they hadn't invented metal or paint yet.

Russ
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 13, 2012, 12:19:13 PM
I'm still learning. Trying to remember what paint goes on top of what and what reacts with what is still hard for me to get straight.

I really want to try and make a wooden rocket all weathered up. I might try that next.

What types of models do you make? No metal?? I bet you make a hell of a Stone Wheel!  ;D

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Quote from: finescalerr on March 13, 2012, 12:08:44 PM
Satisfactory.

Someday I gotta learn how to do that tricky paint stuff ... except that in the period I model they hadn't invented metal or paint yet.

Russ
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: finescalerr on March 14, 2012, 01:27:59 AM
I was half kidding. I generally model the era from about 1890 to 1910, pre-automobile. I mostly build structures and the occasional railroad car but have been know to stray into gas mechanical and diesel locos, HO scale rolling stock, and even (in my wild and misspent youth) 1:35 scale military. -- Russ
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 14, 2012, 08:42:18 AM
I've always loved early tractors and odd mechanical farm equipment. After seeing some of the amazing work here, I'm definitely inspired to do a few vehicles. Too bad I have to sleep!!  :o

I got some more work done yesterday.

Here's a pic to see the size of it. My daughter said "hurry, this thing is heavy!"
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg849.imageshack.us%2Fimg849%2F1705%2Fmikob.jpg&hash=850ef16f78d958f751305fbcf3c3bf0d89469316)

I added an access panel to the tube area and added more weathering.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg828.imageshack.us%2Fimg828%2F1344%2Fbbunny04.jpg&hash=3192eec7ab0aee1bba9a5fa200669e69be8409f2)

I still need to blend the chipping, highlight some areas and airbrush some rust.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg542.imageshack.us%2Fimg542%2F1839%2Fbbunny03.jpg&hash=975012d9564a8ab73b9852ad8e58ab4935ac998b)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Ken Hamilton on March 14, 2012, 09:26:37 AM
Roughing in the shape with spray foam = Great Idea!
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 14, 2012, 10:50:44 AM
Ken, I asked him about it and he said he used foam sheets for this part. I thought it was the expandable foam.

He's used that on other parts. I asked if it was the type from the can and he said no because that stuff isn't dense enough and the core never dries. You can see the expandable foam in action HERE (http://www.thereplicapropforum.com/f10/ss-betty-alien-resurrection-118968/index8.html#post2113646)

Quote from: Ken Hamilton on March 14, 2012, 09:26:37 AM
Roughing in the shape with spray foam = Great Idea!
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 16, 2012, 08:17:39 AM
Added some airbrushing and an overall dusting layer. Thanks for the advice Marc!!

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg534.imageshack.us%2Fimg534%2F6505%2Fe21f51ea6e3411e19896123.jpg&hash=9d2c6229d9da9aba86b122f56e0104fe2ccc3967)

Here's all my rockets in one pic:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg805.imageshack.us%2Fimg805%2F4125%2F465c74ae6f1511e1abb0123.jpg&hash=f401eb7cd811c3ca3050b787a0e593fd11240a8d)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 27, 2012, 06:56:12 AM
On this project I used some Winsor & Newton Gouche for most of the rivet streaks. I also used some Vallejo, Tamiya and Pollyscale paints. I originally painted the goggles Orange and used the hairspray technique which was awesome but the Orange was thinned to much so I went with white.

Here are pics of the final piece. I painted the goggles white and did some metal effects on the fins.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg594.imageshack.us%2Fimg594%2F2246%2Fcustombellicosebunnybyj.jpg&hash=64655191d2708094020b3ae87bee42994fcf7e7f)

Backyard Shot:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F8990%2Fbb06.jpg&hash=492586eeea4b835e85f1a7e92afec497d8d58894)

Here's the fin/engine view. The engine was the back part of the original toy.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg687.imageshack.us%2Fimg687%2F8964%2Fimg1334g.jpg&hash=913eeb548e4b55bf2fb74f7eadb4da7db0fa1fab)

Top view.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg819.imageshack.us%2Fimg819%2F557%2F46771210150603504591631.jpg&hash=5c6743275606efea49a778811b2d9d19a69aa4ed)

Here is the original toy's creator Nathan Hamill:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg19.imageshack.us%2Fimg19%2F9236%2F77089032.jpg&hash=5b57d64befb110c37ae0714586ea61f4e3d6a963)

Here are some 3D red/cyan anaglyph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaglyph_image) images before I painted the goggles:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg843.imageshack.us%2Fimg843%2F8296%2F3dbb.jpg&hash=b54c8b1979d00d18e4c34703dc82c02504352c31)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg827.imageshack.us%2Fimg827%2F7210%2F3dbb2.jpg&hash=29a8b775d5024144093e36f7f7573af2dbddfb1c)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg12.imageshack.us%2Fimg12%2F9426%2F3dbb31024.jpg&hash=0c6673839d284c4ebb9bdc27bba7e31a58178cc7)

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Ray Dunakin on March 27, 2012, 08:04:34 AM
Very nice!
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: Wesleybeks on March 27, 2012, 09:34:57 AM
Flippen cool toy Tim. I love it.
Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on March 27, 2012, 12:09:37 PM
Thanks guys!

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Title: Re: Need ideas for making cross sections
Post by: JESTER on April 03, 2012, 06:56:32 AM
Speaking of Rocky Jones, check this out!!
http://www.mst3ktemple.com/silvercup_rocket.html

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Quote from: finescalerr on March 06, 2012, 12:45:38 PM
Starting to shape up. Vaguely reminiscent of, but less streamlined than, the craft used by Rocky Jones, Space Ranger in the '40s or '50s. -- Russ