Westlake Publishing Forums

General Category => Modellers At Work => Topic started by: gin sot on October 28, 2010, 02:39:05 PM

Title: Barrel Fever!
Post by: gin sot on October 28, 2010, 02:39:05 PM
I have been wanting to model the turpentine and gum naval stores industry for some years now, and to credibly do so, I need large quantities of barrels.  Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that the commercially available offerings are either too expensive in the quantity I require, or insufficiently detailed, or improperly shaped, or demand too much cleanup time, or some combination of the above.  The remaining option is to scratchbuild suitable masters and cast what I need.  Barrels being a somewhat complex assemblage, I pondered the issue for a while, and discovered this (http://www.2guyzandsumtrains.com/Content/pid=51.html) tutorial on making O scale barrels.  It looked like a reasonably good method, except that I am working at about half that scale.  Also, given that I plan to use my scratchbuilt barrels as masters for duplication, I thought styrene would be a more appropriate medium.  I also figured out a way to simplify and streamline the process a bit.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shorpy.com%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2F4a13387a.preview.jpg&hash=60ac4f4da24462ce266ae09b6b8ae6dcaafe68a9)

This photograph, recently featured on Shorpy.com, shows barrels of pine rosin being loaded onto a ship.  Note the distinct shape and size (smallish, barely tapered with an almost cylindrical side profile) and the reinforcing boards across the heads.  Rosin barrel construction varied from year to year and from producer to producer, but the barrels in this photo are pretty close to the archetype.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc4%2Fhs775.snc4%2F67512_1605531628605_1545573565_31498549_6653877_n.jpg&hash=63a3808a2739ed27c9bc132a88538c5b2a61110a)

Construction begins by gluing wood-grained styrene strip to styrene tube stock to represent the barrel heads.  The smaller tube will eventually be the core of a rosin barrel, the larger tube is appropriate for a whiskey or turpentine barrel core.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc4%2Fhs827.snc4%2F68721_1605532188619_1545573565_31498552_5382630_n.jpg&hash=cae85d0a34d5ee0c8cd2a22f873328af8d6d4d99)

When the glue has firmly set, trim the head flush with the outside of the tube, as shown here on the larger barrel core. 

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash2%2Fhs454.ash2%2F72747_1605533028640_1545573565_31498557_527440_n.jpg&hash=063a2275d8be03abc2118753581fe0f73a0974a5)

For the staves on this large barrel, I used .080" x .100" strip.  I marked one of the .100" faces with a silver Sharpie (but any color will do); this would be the outside of the staves.  The inside was sanded on a piece of sandpaper wrapped around the core tube to create a closely mating surface.  The sides were beveled in toward the center of the barrel by scraping with a razor blade, and staves were cut to length.  I didn't get too anal about the bevel angle on this barrel, and now think I perhaps should have. 

For the smaller and more cylindrical rosin barrels, I am using HO scale 4" x 4" strip.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc4%2Fhs786.snc4%2F66655_1605533228645_1545573565_31498558_8378202_n.jpg&hash=64b0e6ea6e4e772bcbd0dcdefc91cab175118029)

The stave blanks were then glued around the circumference of the barrel core, with their ends protruding about two scale inches above the head.  The subassembly was then allowed to dry thoroughly.  When fully dry, the barrel blank was chucked into a cordless drill and turned to the proper profile with files and sandpaper:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash2%2Fhs416.ash2%2F69408_1605531348598_1545573565_31498548_7574554_n.jpg&hash=1fa5c830dcb99d0a888e94e2bce61441413ffc3c)

I haven't attached the bands to this particular barrel yet, but I have glued up a few other barrels so far:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash2%2Fhs416.ash2%2F69421_1605532028615_1545573565_31498551_7758747_n.jpg&hash=1efc969fd1057e94d6412df219f9c8f54c937129)

The bands on these barrels are supposed to represent the split oak hoops that were used by the naval stores industry well into the twentieth century, and they still need a bit of work with Mr. Surfacer to tidy them up.  One barrel has heat-stretched strip, the other two are HO scale 1" x 2".  I think in the future I will use something like .020" rod. 

Strap iron hoops were also used, I think the aluminum tape mentioned in the article I linked to might be a less frustrating solution for metal bands.

Anybody else ever try scale cooperage?
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: chester on October 28, 2010, 04:28:56 PM
Well that's one hurdle put behind. They look very good. Much interest in seeing the rest of this come together.
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: mabloodhound on October 28, 2010, 04:46:56 PM
Nice job, but I didn't see any Shorpy image and the link mentioned at the bottom didn't seem to be there.
Interested in following you subsequent casting progress.
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: Philip Smith on October 28, 2010, 05:10:58 PM
Your Barrels look nice and a more simplyfied process.
BTW: I must confess, that was my tutorial long ago. Casted about 10,000 of those!

Philip  8)
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: gin sot on October 28, 2010, 05:28:05 PM
That's good to know, Philip!  I thank you for the inspiration.  I left one end of the core extended so I'd have something to chuck in the drill to turn it, but I think the stub will also be quite handy as a casting gate when I make the mold.

I didn't used to even notice model barrels that had bands at the bilge (the widest part), now I see them everywhere, and it bothers me.   :D

Dave: the Shorpy picture comes up fine for me, but here's the address for the full-size image: http://www.shorpy.com/node/9212?size=_original (http://www.shorpy.com/node/9212?size=_original)

The address for Philip's tutorial is hyperlinked in blue in Paragraph 1.   ;)
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: Philip Smith on October 28, 2010, 06:47:25 PM
Most of the old hand are aware of this.

I try to capture as much detail as possible unless hidden or shadowed. This is a quickey of the pour hole so details remain on both ends of the casting. I two piece mold the part and the pour hole  (wood portion sticking out) ending with a bit of hand machining and graining if desired. If a barrel is just sitting there (freight depot dock) then stick it to the bottom of the box, but none of the undercuts will be visible. Folk think products are high, lots of extra labor involved with parts to get them presentable and poseable at any angle. The barrels being loaded in that scene need poseable barrels. 

Are you going to create a scene like that? Its a really busy operation!

Philip 8)   
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 28, 2010, 08:11:11 PM
Nice job on the barrels, I'll have to try making some that way one of these days.

Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: marc_reusser on October 28, 2010, 09:30:13 PM
Man, those barrels in the Shorpy pic are some of the worst barrels I have ever seen. They look like they were made by half blind ferrets!

I am impressed with your method/approach to making the barrels, an your getting the shape to look/feel right. The only thing that bothers me is that the spaces between the staves seem a bit extreme/large....they look like the scale out over an inch...and I think any barrel would hard pressed to swell that much to close the gaps.  ;D

The bands look a bit heavy..I figure you used .010 styrene for them....unfortunately it would be tough to use anything thinner, as it would telescope the stave pattern too much...but it would add that final finesse to the part.  Mind you, i am just being nitpicky here....like I said at the beginning very neat approack and tutorial.

Marc
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: mabloodhound on October 29, 2010, 07:09:14 AM
Thanks gs for the Shorpy link.   I hadn't seen that one.
Don't know why the Shorpy won't show on my computer, all your other photos are OK.
Same with Philip's link.   I'm using Firefox and maybe there's something there?
Your latest link was fine.
I'll be watching for more info.

Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: Frederic Testard on October 29, 2010, 12:42:40 PM
I couldn't see the Shorpy file either but it worked when I changed the URL to
http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a13387a.jpg
Marc, you're right, these barrels could only be used to store very solid things.
(Apples in the Treasure Island of Stevenson, maybe).
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: marc_reusser on October 29, 2010, 01:49:51 PM
Dave, I don't think it's your browser...the shorpy image doesn't show for me either, and I use IE-8.  I had to go to the link as well.

I think it's something with the way Shorpy sets up their "preview" images.....because when I put my cursor over the missing image, and right click "show picture", it the loads/shows-up.

....or maybe it could be beacause of your/my security software settings.


Marc
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: gin sot on October 29, 2010, 05:26:14 PM
The Shorpy image appears to have gone bye-bye, I guess the link will have to suffice for later readers.

QuoteMan, those barrels in the Shorpy pic are some of the worst barrels I have ever seen. They look like they were made by half blind ferrets!

If by "half blind ferrets" you mean "half-drunk uneducated backwoods peons" you'd be correct.  There wasn't much motivation for craftsmanship since the pine rosin was basically a solidified crystalline mass that water would not dissolve.  It was expected that some of the melted liquid rosin would ooze out of the cracks between staves when the barrels were filled.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffpc.dos.state.fl.us%2Fgeneral%2Fn043968.jpg&hash=b5ee869f2af79a11d8808e071ad76a9c0ecce3e9)

QuoteI am impressed with your method/approach to making the barrels, an your getting the shape to look/feel right. The only thing that bothers me is that the spaces between the staves seem a bit extreme/large....they look like the scale out over an inch...and I think any barrel would hard pressed to swell that much to close the gaps.  Grin

The bands look a bit heavy..I figure you used .010 styrene for them....unfortunately it would be tough to use anything thinner, as it would telescope the stave pattern too much...but it would add that final finesse to the part.  Mind you, i am just being nitpicky here....like I said at the beginning very neat approack and tutorial.

Thanks for the encouragement!  The gaps are out-of scale, but for this application somewhat overstated detail is okay with me, considering the generally half-assed joinery of real-life rosin barrels.  I can live with a small degree of caricature in the details as long as the basic impression is correct.  The oversized bands are due for another spin against a file to reduce them down to a more plausible thickness.  A bit of trimming should also reduce the undercuts, simplifying the eventual casting process.

A few more inspirational photographs-- rosin barrels after packing at the still:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffpc.dos.state.fl.us%2Fgeneral%2Fn043965.jpg&hash=9e04e40e4626334c1b9902d10211f40e6359be71)

Backwoods cooper shop, note the stacks of staves and prefabricated heads:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffpc.dos.state.fl.us%2Fforestry%2F024981.jpg&hash=a653e02a9d5909fcfa2c86b5512126c7925e3e24)

Rosin yard at Pensacola, Florida, showing what I'd be up against if I were to attempt modeling this end of the industry:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffpc.dos.state.fl.us%2Fprints%2Fpr76287.jpg&hash=dcbcfab71d99cc5a0e90d36d89077f1297346c1c)
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 29, 2010, 09:50:05 PM
That last shot reminds me of the warehouse at the end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark"!

Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: MinerFortyNiner on October 31, 2010, 10:54:39 PM
Yikes!  That would take a lot of resin...   :o

It appears in the photos that the prototype barrels have very little curvature to the staves, which is perhaps good news.  Where the gaps Marc noted appear is in the middle of the staves on the barrel with the greatest curvature.  Perhaps a combination of a slightly tighter fit trimming the staves, and less sanding of the ends, would yield the finished look you want.  Have you considered using brass strip for the staves to permit a slightly finer look?

My only model cooperage to this point has been half a barrel, used as a quenching tub for my coke plant:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.cox.net%2Feaniner%2Fquenchtub.gif&hash=c8526aa68d541f945eaaad7c24b1fe0c8955ca9d)

I used a hardwood furniture insert for the tub bottom, the tapered side provided the angle for the staves.  I tapered and trimmed the staves to fit, stained them, glued them to the base and then added blackened brass banding.  I then filled the tub with carpenters glue, once that cured painted the surface, inserted the tool handle, then applied multiple full-strength applications of acrylic gloss medium.

The bands are only fastened to the tub at the back, so slight movement of them during handling rubbed some of the blackening onto the wood.  I would seal them with dullcote next time, lesson learned!
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: finescalerr on November 01, 2010, 12:49:10 AM
What did you use to make the stone blocks? I like the whole scene. Nice detailing. -- Russ
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: MinerFortyNiner on November 01, 2010, 01:31:21 PM
They are cut travertine stone imported from Turkey...there are 2,200 of them individually glued to the styrofoam subroadbed.  They take stain well, so I was able to stain them to a close approximation of common rock colors found in the Sonora Desert, where my layout is located.
Title: Re: Barrel Fever!
Post by: finescalerr on November 01, 2010, 05:33:50 PM
You need to write up a short article about that for one of my books. I've never come across that technique and it is definitely worth sharing. -- Russ