Foothill Model Works (FMW) has long been making and selling beautifully cast, and highly detail, resin car kits, as well as some incredibly detailed injection molded plastic detail parts. At this years NNGC FMW will be releasing the first of several beautiful injection molded plastic kits. The first 2 kits will be their 7' x 20' and 7' x 24' flats cars. The kits will be available in both On3 and On30. They will retail at $30, and will include Macloed trucks. These kits are essentially upgraded and much more refined versions of their current styrene cars.
More information about the cars and other FMW products can be found at their website: http://home.inreach.com/jkitts/ (http://home.inreach.com/jkitts/)
Several members of our modeling group (Terrapin Narrow Gauge Society; http://www.rbadesign.net/TERRAPIN/index.html (http://www.rbadesign.net/TERRAPIN/index.html)) were fortunate last weekend to see some of the test shots of the parts, and one of the unpainted pilot models for the 7 x 20 car. We were so taken by the quality, and the fact that it was a styrene kit, that we decided to run a "Model Challenge" amongs our members that were interested, to see what kind of kitbashing possibilities that this kit held. This thread will discuss and present the evolution of these models and the challenge.
A brief review of the parts and pilot model:
The parts don't have any "draft angle", which makes ell edges square and crisp. This not only makes the detail and parts look prototypically correct, but greatly helps in assembly. I saw very little to no flash on the test shots. Aside from being available in both gauges, the cars will also come with other options; such as different buffer blocks, two types of needle beams, different bolster thicknesses (For On3 & On30. Using the On3 bolster for On30 raises the coupler height which is handy for some people who use a higher than the normal HO coupler height.) A great feature of the car is that most parts have pins or groves to align parts for ease of assembly and proper alignment (yet they are not so deep or obtrusive that they cannot be easily filled with a tiny dab of putty), and the side, intermediate and center sills are all prototypically notched (a scale 3/4") to hold/accept the bolsters and needle beams.
The rules we have set for the challenge are as follows (and may change):
1. Car must be built using one of the new styrene FMW kits. (7x20 or 7x24)
2. Car length and gauge is up to the builder; cars can be shortened, lenghtened by splicing two frames together, narrowed, etc.: but all the components for the car base need to utilize the kit parts)
3. Car type/use/modification/etc. is up to the builder.
4. Materials and details used in the building of the car are up to the builder.
5. All builds steps and any special/interesting techniques must be documented, in text and photo.
6. Progress photos and technique totorials required wher applicable.
7. Time frame to be determined. (Start will be whenever one receives their kit......end date?)
...and so off we go! ;D
For my Model, I plan to use the 7x20 kit to build a 2-bay sugar cane car, based on these prototpes.
Though the images show cars with steel farmes, wood frames were also available (as shown in the image).
...and here is a preliminary 3D CAD model of the wood version I will be fussing around with.
I'm planning and researching a 28' flat car NPC or SPC, by splicing two kits together. I may also freelance a 20' excursion car.
Jerry the Younger
Right now I am planning a refer.
I'd like to do a 20', but may end up doing a 24'
-Marty
Marc,
Thanks for getting this thread started. I'm looking forward to see how creative we can be and will be sharing my entry....once I get started!
Doug
Some more drafting layout fun..... ::) ;D
Doug, Great Avatar! ;D
Marc
...and the underside of the car with Hardware.
Rumor has it that the new FMW kist are now available for order and shipping.
I will post pics of the kit as soon as mine arrives......So this thread should hopefully get moving soon.
Marc
Looks like an interesting challenge Marc. I'm looking forward to monitoring the progress here. Concerning your planned entry, the computer geek in me wants to know what software you are using for your 3D CAD designs. They have the look of Solidworks renderings... Did you have the opportunity to check out the Cobalt software we were talking about on the Roughboy Forum?
Bill
Bill,
I do all my 3D work on SketchUp Pro v.6. I like using the basic display/presentation settings, as they remind me more of a study/design development model.....sort of like the monochrome chip-board or basswood study models that I do for homes. I feel they are just loose/basic enough to allow the viewer to read some of his own thoughts/feelings/interpretation into them, while still clearly showing all the important aspects/features/characteristics.
The sheet with the images/plan was created using "Layout" which is a plug-in/add-on that comes with the Pro 6 version. It's sort of a mix of AutoCad's "viewports", and a basic graphics sheet layout program (like MS Publisher). The images on the sheet "view"/reference the 3D model, and update/change as the model gets updated/changed.
Marc
Marc
I'm impressed - you're doing some very nice work with SketchUp. I've used Pro v6 a couple of times to literally do some quick sketch visualizations of a design idea, but I've found it to be somewhat limiting in the precision and amount of control it affords the user. I'm committed to Cobalt which also has far more advanced rendering capabilities which is an important feature, especially with product design. The Layout feature is a definite plus with SketchUp. Cobalt has essentially the same function called "Model to Sheet" which will generate plan and elevation views automatically from your 3D design and present them on any one of 14 standard drafting sheets. You can also make your own custom sheets. The possibilities are endless. Any corrections or changes made in the 3D design are automatically updated in the generated 2D drawings. It also comes with a huge library of standard mechanical parts in all major standards, ie bolts, nuts, screws, gears, springs, split rings and so on, which makes it easy to spec hardware.
Cobalt does have some drawbacks. Price is definitely one. At $4G :o, it's almost 9x the price of SketchUp Pro. Not the sort of thing you want to just pick up and experiment with. It also has a steeper learning curve, though for as complex a package as it is, it is relatively easy to grasp providing the user has an understanding of 2D and 3D design principles. The interface and usability is aimed at designers not engineers, which for me is a huge plus. I design visually, not by mathematic equations.
I'm working on a project now in Cobalt which I'll be posting on the Roughboy Forum in fairly near future. I'm working on pilot beams (made of Swiss Pear of course) for a 1:48 18-ton shay.
Bill
The FMW Kit arrived Yesterday.
It comes packaged in the ubiqutous white flip top cardboard box we've come to associate with FMW kits.
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Inside the box one finds all the parts/sprues nicely packaged in individual plastic bags and accompanied by a set of instructions (3 sheets 8-1/2x11 sheets, printed double sided), containing a color photo of a built-up car, A diagram for the truck assembly, 6 B&W photos of various views of the car explaining/showing where pieces are/should be located, and a set of scale line drawings of the car, along with a line drawn bending template for the truss rods. The step-by-step instruction text is broken down into general sections (Introduction, Recommended Tools & Supplies, Bill of Materials, Pre-Assembly, Truck Assembly, Main Assembly, Frame Details, Brake Rigging, Optional Details, Painting, Final Details) with clear and concise explanation of the assembly steps/process.
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The individual bags contain/broken down into:
1. The car frame and deck
2. An assortment of bolsters, needle beams, draft timbers, and buffer blocks
3. Nuts, bolts, straps and other assorted car hardware, brake wheel and ratchet.
4. Stake pockets, brake hoses, steps, and underbody detail parts.
5. Brake beams and levers
6. MacLeod and Western trucks
7. NWSL wheel-sets
8. Kadee couplers and boxes.
9. Brass wire
There is a total of 122 parts (not counting wheel-sets, couplers, and brass wire)
As noted in the review of the "test-shots", all the FMW parts are beautifully and crisply cast with no flash, no draft, and minimal mold lines.
This is a wonderfuly produced model kit, truly what a kit should be, and clearly sets the standard for what model kits in the Model Railroading hobby should aspire to.
Marc
Thanks Marc it looks like an outstanding kit. I can't wait to see how you and Marty and the others build these.
Jerry
Let's see if I can make this work:
My first challenge car will be a Carter Bros. 28' flat car. This involves cutting and splicing two 20' frames. Here is the layout:
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To insure square and accurate cuts, I squared and clamped the frames in my razor saw miter box, with a metal guide for the saw.
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Here is the spliced frame, with the unused slots and cut areas filled with styrene strip, putty and sanded out.
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All of the 28 ft car plans showed 4 truss rods and the 20 ft kit only has two. So it was necessary to rob parts from another kit and splice the needle beams:
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The brake hardware on the 28 ft flat is a little more complicated than the 20 ft car, so I thought it best to form the truss rods now, but not install them until after the brake assembly is done. Here are the truss rods, with a forming jig. I ran the brass wire through Blacken-it, in hopes that the paint would adhere a little better.
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-Younger
Wait for me fellas!
I'm in.
An insulated box car is my choice.
So far I have prepainted all the iron and the trucks.
Added some grain to the frame and installed the center truss rods (blackened music wire) and the body bolsters.
I am drawing the side elevations and planning the structure today.
(dont tell my boss)
-Mj
Well it looks like you guys are off to a good start.
Will have to foloow this closely to see the different cars you all come up with and how you did them.
Jerry
Next I continued to assemble the frame. I added the queen posts, buffer blocks and draft timbers. Be careful: in all my planning and being cautious I still put the buffer blocks on upside down the first time.
Now that the brakes were dry I painted the details in. I used Vallejo leather brown for the wood parts base coat. After the base dried I went back and added ?grain? with some ocher brown. The wheel sides of the brakes were painted with Vallejo oily steel (oops thanks Marc).
I used a program available for free from eMachine shop to draw cutting guides for the sub wall assemblies. I printed the drawing out, glued it to the 1/32? plywood and cut out the sub walls. Next will be to stain some strip wood and cover the outsides of the walls. Only one inside wall will be visible so I will likely only cover that one wall. Exterior boards will be vertical 1x6?s and interior boards will be horizontal 1x6?s. Obviously the inside boards will be stained differently from the outside. Eventually the outside boards will receive a peeling paint effect in a whitewash.
Since my car has a slatted deck, through which the frame and underbody details will be able to be seen from above, some modifications to the frame were necessary.
First the large styrene block casting (intended for mounting the Kadee coupler boxes) at the ends of the car needed to be removed. Since I will be having exposed L&P draft gear, I did not need this block.
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The second modification that was needed was to lower the blocking areas where the truss rods pass over the bolsters. This was milled .015 lower than the cast in slot, as later, I will be adding flat truss rod pads here.
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This shows the quick jig that was made to ensure that the frame sat square and rigid to the cutting head. A scrap piece of 3/4" Poplar was clamped to the X/Y table of the drill press. .125 wide slots were cut into the Poplar, into which were then inserted pieces of .125 Styrene, to act as a fence/stop. It's not pretty, but it does it's job well.
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The last step was to cut off the truss rod NBW locator nubs on the end sills, and drill .020 holes through the sill in their location, in order to eventually accept/seat the truss rods from the inside.
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Marc
Well.....since I'm freelancing, and trying to piece out the styrene deck pieces to line up with the differently spaced stake pockets looked like a big problem, I've decided to do the deck in wood (hope that doesn't violate the spirit of the Challenge). Also, since I used bits and pieces of different kits to put together the frame and brake assemblies, I shot the whole bottom in primer (Mr. Surfacer 1200) to even out the colors. I'm going to paint the entire frame with the oxide red color, and the rationale would be: while the car was in the shop to have a new deck installed, the shop foreman decided paint everything while the deck was off. How's that for a story? [smile]
-Younger
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Judging by the photos, there's some excellent progress being made in the Challenge... 8)
Bill
I'm looking forward to lots of ideas and techniques I can carry over into 1/20.3 cars.
I may have to buy one of these little cars just so I can steal all the ideas and scale them up.
John
New sill pieces for the ends were fabricated using .100 x .156 styrene, and laminating a piece of .100 x .010 on top to create the step at the bolster . A sized laminated block of styrene was used as a spacer to keep the new sill pieces parallel during gluing.
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Since I am not using the Kadee coupler boxes, the recess cast into in the draft sills to accommodate them needed to be filled with pieces of .100 x .030 styrene. This image shows the replaced center sills, and the filled draft sills. At left, in the center sills you can also see where the brake hanger hardware mounting holes have been filled. These are not necessary on this car as it had braking applied to only one truck.
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Marc
Nicely done Marc - very clean and crisp. Glad to see your use of a jig/fixture - a simple solution that makes the job much easier.
Bill
One of the things that I always found tedious and difficult was painting wheel sets. This time I tried something new (to me). Using a 1/2 inch brad point drill, I drilled two sets of holes in some scrap .060 styrene. The wheels fit snugly into the holes, masking the tread area. This allows me to spray 8 wheelsets at a time, getting the back sides and axles, as well as the outsides.
-Younger
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I use the Mac McCalla trick on wheels. I just paint the whole thing, then just run a Q-tip with some thinner on it around the outside rim. It even works with the wheels already installed in the trucks.
John
I see the benefit of Jerry's method though is multi-fold:
The wheels are held in place , and can be painted all around in their entirity in one sitting,... IE. without having to deal with where to hold the wheel with the tweezers/pliers, and then touch up that spot.
They can be very easily be held and turned for painting
No worry about interference from the truck frames, and possible paint build up on frames...both of which occur when painting the wheels installed in the sideframes.
...lastly...it's a lot less work, especially in the long run, since it is a re-usable template.
I will definitely use this on my build.
Marc
So much rain...nothing to but build models.....
Light wood graining was added to the frame using a Micro-Mark wire pencil. When doing grain care should be taken to draw the pencil in only one direction, and try to do the entire graining in one pass, so as not to accidentally create crossed grain during a reverse or second pass.
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Next came some of the tedious work; making all the individual wood boards and stakes.
Similar parts were all cut to a rough length using the NWSL "Chopper". These parts were then carefully and tightly stacked on the sanding table, and held in place and square, with some steel blocks; then sanded to the required fished length. Sanding the pieces in this manner also provides slight radiused sanding marks in the end of the boards, which help represent "end grain" in the final pieces. Care needs to be taken when doing this not to have the disk speed too high, and not to push/feed the styrene pieces to quickly or to hard into the disk, otherwise you risk melting and deforming the ends of the pieces.
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Using a sharp Xacto knife, any sanding flash was carefully cleaned from all sides of each board end. Care needs to be taken so as to cut parallel to the piece surface, and not slope the cut inward, or at an angle.
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Smaller pieces were then "wood grained" by carefully, and with even pressure, drawing them once, in one direction, over a piece of 180 grit sandpaper. In order to keep the sandpaper surface perfectly flat during use, the paper was attached to a glass plate using double sided tape.
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Wider boards are grained with the wire pencil; again, as with the frame, keeping in mind to move in one direction, and scribe with a single sweep whenever possible.
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Lastly the pieces were all "de-fuzzed"/de-burred, using the Micro-Mark fiberglass pencil. Small parts, as in the photo, were done in multiples, so as to reduce the chance of eased or rounded edges and corners. (I often also use 0000 steel wool to do this....it just happened that in this case, the fiberglass pencil was closer at hand).
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For the bulkhead construction, a jig was built from using styrene.
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The bulkhead boards were glued in place onto the stakes, one at a time. Care needs to be taken when applying adhesive to only apply a small amount at the inside edge (where the planks are raised above the jig surface, so as to not have the glue wick onto the jig, and bond your parts to it. Since the jig should have a "snug" fit, make sure you allow the glued bulkhead parts to dry/set thouroughly, otherwise you stand the chance of distorting the assembly while removing it.
Note that the boards are assembled with a slight space between them (approx. .002), this is to allow for visual relief, paint thickness, and the idea that the boards slightly shrunk while in service...as they would in real life.
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For accurate spacing on the center posts for the middle bulkhead, the flat car frame was used as a quick alignment jig. The vertical post was held in place on the partially assembled bulkhead, while small dabs of adhesive were applied to each board. (Making sure not to apply so much as to cause it to wick under the frame beyond, or between the board and your work surface.)
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The frame with the bulkheads test fitted. The slats on the frame against the bulkheads, are part of the the new deck. The slight uneveness in board thickness, is due to the variation in the manufactured styrene strip (using pieces from two different packages)....and as I intend to represent a car that has seen about 5 years of heavy service, and weather exposure in a tropical environment, I figure this effect gave an added visual "aging"/weathering detail.
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I actually got further..... and even had applied all the spaced slats on one half....but somewhere between my math, and the slight, .002 or so, variation on the pieces causing a cumulative issue, there was an error, and I ended up with two adjacent spaces/openings :-\ ::)....so I had to peel them all off..., and will have to give it a new try during my next session at the bench.
Marc
Going well!
Great step by step too.
I got some work done too, pics soon....
? Why not make your styrene jigs from wood ?
-Mj
Thanks Marty,
Wood would prevent the glue issue, unfortunately for me though, at this scale, wood is too inaccurate unless I cut the pieces myself) and laborious to use for a jig. The styrene really lets me build up the sizes/thicknesses I need on the fly, and they glue together or down onto the jig surface, completely flat and square.
Marc
Marc, are you typing really fast, or experimenting with the Tequila chipping method again? ;D
Worse.....my wife was standing in front of me asking me to come give her a hand with something. ;D ;D ;D
Wow, reading it over, it was pretty bad. ::)
Marc
Marc
It's starting to really look like something now. A great tutorial on how to do this I do hope you continue with the step by step as you go along to the finish.
This will be another great thread by one of the masters of modeling.
Jerry
Marc
Thank you for the step by step. Since I'm doing somewhat similar things on the K27, I've been reading your posts over and over. One thing does baffle me, how do you keep your hands so clean? Mine are always covered with paint and glue while I'm building and my nails are destroyed from files and an occasional meeting with the Dremel tool.
John
;D ;D ;D...John, I never thought about that, or noticed. I guess I'm just anal that way. ;D ;D...and I have learned to keep my fingers clear of sharp and spinning objects....well at least most of the time ;D.
All I can figure is that when spraying primer or airbrushing I almost always wear latex surgical type gloves....and these days usually also when working with chemicals. I also tend to wash my hands frequently, so as to not leave oils on the model surface...especially when painting and finishing.
Marc
Small update - the side walls and doors.
-MJ
Very nice job indeed. I like the coloring is this going to be weathered more?
Jerry
I guess Marc and I are the only ones making progress......
No step by step here, just results.
-Mj
I cut some temporary pieces of styrene and countersunk mounting holes, so they could be screwed into the truck mounting locations, to provide a steady support and protection for the underbody details while I was working on the topside.
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I scribed grain into a long piece of basswood using my favorite wire brush, deburred with the scotchbrite pad, and cut thedeck pieces to length with a Chopper. Each piece was dunked in BIS Silverwood and drained on a paper towel. After installation, I will probably treat the topsides a little darker to show more weathering than the protected bottom side. I found Eileen's Tacky Glue to be a reasonable adhesive to join the wood to the painted styrene.
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Had some free time after dinner last night....spent most of it trying to clean my work-bench, but did have about an hour of modelling time.
The next major step was installing the slats for the decks. Having already located and attached the final slats that rest against the bulkheads on each half of the car, the remaining slats were evenly spaced using pieces of basswood strips; in this case "re-sized/planed" 'Mt. Albert' S-scale 4x8's.
A note re. using stripwood as a jig material: Before using all 4 sides of the pieces were carefully and "squarely" run across 320 sandpaper to remove any burrs, surface texture, and to make sure there was no "compression splaying/deforming" at the ends of the strips where they had been cut; as these can all cause the strips to not sit parallel, square or evenly.
The styrene slats were then "snugly" and alternately inserted between the existing end/bulkhead slats. The entire assembly was then pushed flush and tight against a square "milling block". (Note that the wood spacers fall just short of the inside edge of the side-sill; this was done to prevent any possible wicking of the glue). Onto the fitted slats and spacers was then placed another "milling block" (not shown in the photo for clearer view) as a weight to hold the entire assembly flush and tight onto the car frame. Liquid cement was then applied to/between the slats at the side-sill.
Once dry, the entire assembly was turned 180-degrees, the spacer strips pushed towards the now affixed/glued side of the slats/frame, and the process repeated on the other side-sill. Once this side had also completely dried, the spacer slats were removed, and additional solvent was applied at the slats and all the intermediate sills.
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Marc
The rain is making us Californians stay home and build. My problem is that my little shop is across the street and I get drenched if I try to go over there.
Glad to see you are turning out good things.
John
Busy with other stuff....and just slogging through the tedious part of this project.
Once all the slats were glued in place, and the bulkheads were completed, I sprayed all the assemblies with a light coat of Mr. Surfacer 1200. I did this to check for any problems, as well as unify the colors and tone down the white styrene, for the next step; Drilling the rivet and bolt holes.
The prototypes of these cars were completely rivet and nut/bolt assembled. This presented a bit of a challenge on the model, since only part of the car (all the sills, and the exterior of the bulk-heeds and stakes) is painted, the other part remains bare wood. In order to be able to weather the wood surfaces, and properly paint all the nuts and bolts their weathered metal finish, the NBW's were going to have to be added separately.......thus requiring a hole to be drilled for each one.
In the end there were over 300 holes, not including the side stakes and holes for other hardware (thats probably more perforations than toilet paper). Each hole was drilled on with a .016 drill on a drill press with an X/Y table, and then reamed/re-drilled by hand to .018.
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The end-sills, needle-beams, and bolsters then received "end graining" to represent the radial wood grain. This was done by carefully and very lightly touching the parts to the disk sander. Care needs to be taken so as to only make enough contact to "grain" the entire surface, without actually shortening/sanding it.
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Marc
Marc
Thanks for explaining how your doing this very interesting indeed. But I would be afraid if I grained the wood with a disk sander I wood have one nice pile of sawdust to show for it.
Jerry
Just whatever you do, don't put a DRO on that XY table or you'll lose all your modeling skills. Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
John
Good heavens! You use computers? Begone!!!!
To be serious for only a moment, the best idea I ever had was to send CAD drawings so Crystal River Products could laser cut 1:48 scale Strathmore doors and windows for me. They blow away anything I've ever seen in styrene. Impossible without a computer.
Russ
John,
As you can see in my post...I felt so guilty about using the X/Y table, I did penance by re-drilling them all by hand ;D ;D ;D
Russ,
Just wait.....give me a month or so, and then I plan to have something I want to see if Tom can laser cut for me....an entire model/kit, all Strathmore from 2-6 ply......in 1/32 or 1/35....can't qiute decide yet.
Marc
You are forgiven oh great one! Your modeling skills will return to you.
John
With all the logging discussion and photos I have been looking at relating to Jacqs project, I was inspired to do a "qiuck-build" of something I have always wanted to do: a Madera Sugar Pine Company 28' logging flat car. (MSPCo., used the 28' foot 3'-gauge flats until the winter of 1924, when they were lengthened in the company shops to 34'.)
Since this will be a project for the FMW challenge, it will be more of an "inspired by" MSPCo, rather than exact model (MSPCo was 3' gauge, with wider cars, whereas this challenge is based on 7' wide 30"-gauge cars).
This is intended to be a very basic and straight forward build (unlike the cane car project)...one that hopefully will take no more than 3 evenings of model building to complete.....and is something anyone could easily do.
The images below show some of the basic details and aspects of the cars. There are very basic standard details that appear sim. on all the cars, however, as with many logging operations, because of the heavy use in the woods, and the frequent repairs and modifications in the company shops, there are also things that very from car to car; the most notable of these being the decks.
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Since Since the kit is a 20' car, the first step was to cut the frame in half using a razor saw, and then sand the cut ends even and square. In order to keep the sills from flexing and moving during sanding, a laminated up some styrene spacer blocks to fit between the sills.
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As the new car will have deep side sills, the bolster notches at the existing side sills were filled with .015 styrene; as were all the notches for the needle-beams (which due to the added car length need to be relocated).
Since I wasn't lucky enough like Jerry , to have two complete frames that I could use :-\, new sill sections were laminated up from pieces of strip styrene, cut and "batch sanded" to the proper length to give the car its new 28' dimension, then glued in place.
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The diagrams below show the laminations that were used to match/create the new sill pieces. The diagram on the left shows the intermediate sills, while the diagram on the right shows the outside and center sills. (The "extended sill" piece was added only to the outside sills. - See next step in build.)
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Side sill "extensions were made using .080 x .125 strip styrene. The were "end grained" and had the bottom edges clipped/chamfered on the disk sander prior to gluing in place.
As can be seen on the far side sill, the extended sill piece is wider than the kit side sill (as the prototypes sills were wider also). Since this was to be a "quick build", and nobody would likely look under the car, I did not deem to widen the kit frames to match.
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On the new car, the bolsters were to fit between the side sills, rather than on top like in the kit, so the bolster needed to be cut and sanded to fit. In the image, the upper bolster piece is as supplied in the kit, the lower piece shows the it as cut and fitted between the side-frames, for the new car.
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The needle beams also needed to be modified to work with the new deeper side sills. The extension was done by laminating some .005 styrene to .080 strip styrene, cutting/sanding the styrene to length, and attaching it to the kit supplied needle-beams
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These 2 images show the frame components in their assembled state. Wood graining has been added to the top sides and bottoms of visible frame pieces using a Micro-Mark wire pencil. All ends of sills, buffer blocks, needle-beams, etc., received "end graining" on the disk sander, to represent the radial wood grain.
For this model I will be using the FMW L&P couplers with the Kadee boxes, so the draft timbers were installed as per the kit instructions.
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...and thats as far as I got on the first evening.
Marc
That's a lot of work for one evening! I'd have been tempted to replace the longitudinal sills completely and keep only the end beams, needle beams, and bolsters. But that would have used less of Jerry's kit, I suppose. Shaping up splendidly ... as one might expect.
Russ
QuoteThat's a lot of work for one evening!
It was quality time spent with the shop cat. :)
I seriously considered replacing the entire side sills...would be less seams to contend with on the visble surfaces, but I sort of figured that in the "spirit" of the challenge the kit side sillshould be utilized where possible.
....besides.....with my newly acquired state of "superfluousness".......does it really matter any more.....sigh. :-\
Looking back over my previous post, I just recognized a small issue/mistake that I will have to correct in my next work session.
Marc
Great action shots Oh "superfluousness one"
Always nice to see you back at the bench, hopefully we will see a finished one soon <grin>
I guess if I am starting trouble I better finish mine........
-Marty
Just to keep up, here are a couple of pics of my completed Challenge cars. More are in work.
-Jerry
That was the finished 28' flat, and now the 24' excursion car, loosely following the Mexicano 2' gauge car show in Best's book "Mexican Narrow Gauge".
-Jerry
Jerry.....Very Cool. Both the cars, and the uploads. ;) I really like the benches on the excursion car...nice work. Did you make a jig for them? (and if so.....can I borrow it? ;D )
What did you make the tarp roof out of? Do you have a picture of the underside (interior sheathing/framing) of the roof?
How is the Caboose coming?
Marty...it's Ok that you are bot making progress on this.......you've been too busy making others feel inadequate ;) ;D...but now it is high time you actually completed yours...and started the next one.
Marc
Yes Marc, I built some simple jigs for the benches, and you're welcome to borrow them. My camera is too large to peek under the canopy, but yes, there is complete framing detail.
The canvas top is Micropore medical tape, very easy to use as it has an adhesive back and has some texture. Just cut to size, rub it down, and paint through it, just like we used to dope silkspan model airplane wings in the old days.
The caboose is out of the paint shop (yellow/ochre) and being decaled. Should be done in a few days. Same with the Hay Car.
Marc & Jerry
Very nice progress on your cars!
Jerry
Thanks Jerry,
I need to give a "shout-out" to my homie Jerry Kitts ;D ;D....
Seriously though...what great service....I called Monday around noon, and ordered some different trucks for this project, and misc parts for my stash......and lo-and-behold, the package was in my mailbox at 3pm today. Truely great service.
Marc
The 16' caboose (on a cut down 20' frame) is basically done, in a color that hopefully represents ochre.
-Younger
Jerry,
The caboose is very nice. I like the proportions and color a lot.
Marc
Well, for me, the next step was the trucks...I always dread this part. It took about 3-1/2 hours of work to clean the mold seam lines from the MacLeod trucks. In the end I felt like I wanted to poke myself in the eye with a sharp stick.....would have been about equally fun.
Below can be seen the sub-assemblies of the Macloed trucks, the and the FMW brake beams and levers, ready for primer/paint.
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After more closely looking at the MSPCo. images I realized I needed to modify/add some things.
The MSP cars had 4 truss- rods, so in the interest of expediency I used 4 McLoed truss rod pads (instead of shaving 4 from another set of FMW needle-beams.)
Also noticeable on the MSP photos was the fact that they had a cross truss rod and blocking between the sills. The blocking was added using built-up strip styrene (The location of the blocking was determined by laying out the deck to locate the binder chain openings, and then determining the approx. block location. Fortuitously it landed at the intersection of the frame extension seams, and would help join the parts, as well as hide the seams.)
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Because the MSP cars had a gap in the decking boards where the binder chains were fastened to the sills, and one would be able to see through to the sills below, I realized I needed to add some strip styrene to the FMW outer sills, so that the side sills would look like/match the new wider sill piece below.
Two additional slots were milled into the bolster blocking at each end to accommodate the 2 additional truss rods.
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Lastly the frame was jigged/clamped into the drill-press, and the holes for the cross tie-rods were drilled using a .020 drill bit
In this view one can also see the McLoed "Carter Brothers Teardrop Bolster Bolts" that were added.
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The deck was cut from Mt. Albert stripwood. The decking is scale 2x12's, while the "log bunks" are scale 6x12's. The pices were cut on a NWSL chopper, and "batch sanded" to final size.
Graining was achieved with a #11 Xacto, a Micro-Mark wire pencil, a M-M fiberglass pencil, and some 400 grit sandpaper
Staining was done using a variation of Chuck Doans method by adding washes of Windsor Newton "Burnt Umber" water color, "Paynes Grey" Guache, prior to and following, the rubbed/acetone washed Bragdon's powders. The image has a bit more of a green tint than the boards actually have). Not completely sure how I feel about the results, but it will have to do.
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Next step(s)...primer and paint...and making some of the detail parts.
Marc
Marc Jerry, you guys are both doing some excellent work! Marc, I really enjoy watching how you methodically work thru your solution, I "assume" you must use some extensive research to be able to get even such tiny detail as you show for the truss rod guides. Do you find most of these on the internet or in your own collection of photographs? I would really like to pick your brain on how you organize such a large collection, I have tons of bookmarks and pics but it usually takes me ten minutes to find what I need or else I give up before finding it and get frustrated.
I model in HO and have trouble finding a balance between adding texture to my wood and when I use some 400-600 grit to defuzz, then loose alot of the texture I worked so hard to put in, I have tried doing it deeper but then my 1x stock either breaks or shreds when cleaning the fuzz. Could you tell or show me any special little steps that helped you? ??? Thanks so much, Pat
Jerry
Like the caboose color came out real nice.
Marc
Thanks for taking us step by step to the finished product certainly is a lot to be learned from you guys.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry....I am actually just sort of winging this one along. I want to see if I can actually build it in 3-4 evenings/days at the bench (not including weathering), so I am kind of "fudging"/simplifying some things in the spirit of expediency.
Jerry is truely the "king of the Jigs"...and I think Marty is working hard to catch him. ;D
Marc
Quote from: Belg on April 28, 2008, 04:23:06 AM
..... I "assume" you must use some extensive research to be able to get even such tiny detail as you show for the truss rod guides. Do you find most of these on the internet or in your own collection of photographs? I would really like to pick your brain on how you organize such a large collection, I have tons of bookmarks and pics but it usually takes me ten minutes to find what I need or else I give up before finding it and get frustrated.
Pat
Hi Pat...good to hear from you again.
Kind of a difficult question to give an absolute answer....but here goes.....
The 28' flatcar build is a bit of an abbreviated process of the below....but the general steps for more thorough models are as follows.
A lot depends on what the subject matter is, and where I happened to have found the image that was the inspiration.
I like you have hundreds of bookmarks, however, I found that I rarely use them...takes too long, and I can't remember what each one contains anyhow...even though I have many of them organized in "topical" folders.
Often my first steps are numerous different searches using the Google "image" search.....I clip and save any relevant, informational,and inspirational images on the PC, in a specific folder, pertaining to that subject/model. (these searches may take several hours, using various search terms). [ I also frequently go back during the build, and do more image searches relating to specific details, and/or weathering effects.]
The next step, if I know/think I have applicable info, is go through my library of books, catalogs, photos, and xerox or scan any relevant info. At this point I also go through my binders of previous reference images (will explain the binders in a minute). I will also go back to these during the build, to see if I can get additional info if/where needed.
Lastly but by far not the least, I am very fortunate to have a great resource of very knowledgeable guys in my fellow TNGS members....between them they have a large depth and breadth of prototype and modeling, and fabrication knowledge, that they are rarely at a loss for information (or opinion ;D), or pointing me in a direction, (unless it comes to my armor and european industrial stuff ;D ;D ;D) Many of them also each have their own library or archive of books, photos and data that they will readily share......and they will give me an honest, critcal and forthright comentary of what I have done, or am planning on doing.
....now...the binders....
When I finally sit down to start a project, I will have printed out numerous pages of the most applicable images/copies/scans I have compiled in the above steps.....I will keep these at my work bench to refer to for reference as I am building/painting/weathering....I may even tape one or two to the back of the bench for easy quick reference, or inspiration. ..........these paper copies/print-outs then will eventually all end up in a series of binders with sim copies/prints, from previus projects, projects that never materialized, or things that I thought were of interest or might some day be of use. [I do have a laptop next to my workbench that I could of course store all this "tree-ware" on and use that way, but it is not the same as having a print version in front of you that you can scrutinize, write on, compare with another image, and lay right in front of you, as you work.]
One important note/point I make here with all the info I use.....
I will rarely use images of other peoples work/models for reference (unless they are the likes of Chuck Doan, Adam Wilder, Jan Peters, and some others of sim ilk)....If youuse another persions model as refernce, you are usding their "interpretation" of the original as reference, rather than the original itself,...and in order to "understand" what is going on you really need to follow the "original" rather than another modelers "interpretation" there-of.....that does not mean you cannot/should not, use/try their techniques for acheiving certain effects/details.....but you need to look at the "original" to see how/where, and most importantly why to apply a certain detail/finnish/effect.
Hope that is a little help.
Marc
:-X :-\ >:(....have to fess up, I noticed that I made a mistake in my rush to assemble. Because of the deeper side sills and thus the deeper needle-beams, the brake rigging ros need to pass "through" the needle-beams.....well, in order to do so they needed to have slots milled into them.....so....having forgotten to mill these slots before gluing the needle-beams securely in place....so i now have to figure out a way to cut these slots neatly and cleanly, with the beams in place. :-X :-\
Marc
Before I went back to work this evenig , I shot the log car frame and trucks with primer....this is both on of my my favorite and most dreaded moments...it's great, because it is the first time all the messy different colors of parts and castings go away, and the true unified lines of the car begin to show (i often have considered just leaving stuff in primer, because i like the elegant simplicity of this look....sort of like the old "photo grey-washed" loco and railcar photos that manufacturers and builders used to use.)....the bad part is it shows up all the areas that need work. :-\.......though in all honesty deep down I do like this part also, because it shows me how well or poorly I have done.
Upon examination of the primered car it became evident that a couple of the seams vertical seams/joints on the side sills needed a bit of spot putty.....and the long horizontal seam on the extended side sill needed some filling in areas....unfortunately two of these ran right through the tear-drop bolster nuts :-\....I had actually debated leaving these off till after this point in the build, but my rush to progress got the better of me at the time.
I have done the filling where needed with Tamia "Basic" putty, and will set the frame aside for a week or so, to completely let the putty cure, and any other seams to possibly show-up and/or telescope through the primer. By that time the putty should have done any and all of shrinking, and after sanding, I should end up with the finished surface I am after.
In the meantime I will order some tools from Micro-Mark that will hopefully help me drill the brake rod slots, and I may even build another car....I have an idea for a 20'x4'6" car like the one used by Molino Timber Co.
(Molino was 30" gauge....for expediency though I may build it as 24" gauge using some parts I already have.........or if I truly feel up to it, I amy try to scratch the steel truck frames from styrene in 30")
Marc
Pat,
Give me a day or so to get back to you on the second part of your question re. the wood.
Marc
QuoteI will rarely use images of other peoples work/models for reference (unless they are the likes of Chuck Doan, Adam Wilder, Jan Peters, and some others of sim ilk)....If youuse another persions model as refernce, you are usding their "interpretation" of the original as reference, rather than the original itself,...and in order to "understand" what is going on you really need to follow the "original" rather than another modelers "interpretation" there-of.....that does not mean you cannot/should not, use/try their techniques for acheiving certain effects/details.....but you need to look at the "original" to see how/where, and most importantly why to apply a certain detail/finnish/effect.
Marc,
you very well describe the process how to derive at a personel interpretation of the model in question. I look often in admiration at work from other modelers and become influenced by their work in my imagination of the model(s) I am planning.
This is a stage in modeling, at least for me, that is determined by the fact that a subject is not fully understood. I want to get an mental view of it and the quickest way to that is the work of those modelers that I see as a sample.... Chuck, Gordon, your work, Pendon, etc.
As soon as confidence is growing and I have grasped the "spirit", I start following my own path and the "binder" reference, including work of others, is very little used any more except for factual information.
Jacq
Marc, alot of excellent tips already in your first post some things I did not consider before, I usually have two or three shots that I will attach to a piece of cardboard hung from my modeling light, I guess you could call this my quick and dirty reference and should be alot more thoroughly researched.
Look forward to the info on the wood please don't rush I'll wait til you have the time to fully feel like your answer is the best you can make it. I expect nothing less from you since that is the standard you model to. Thanks again , Pat
I have been dreading fabricating the ladders for my FHMW challenge car.
Well I finally quit whining and got busy.
The first attempt failed miserably, but it was all wrong anyway.
To do it right I figured I had to use .032 x .016 strip for the sides and .020" for the rungs. The LHS didn't have .020 so I used .016 - a better size IMO.
I drilled six .018" holes in each of the sides on .300" centers.
Inserted the .016 rod in them and soldered it up.
The top of the ladder is just like the proto so I am now satisfied.
These were a royal pain in the ass, and I still have one more to assemble.
Boy this O scale stuff is tiny <grin>
-Marty
-MJ
I see you made it back! Awesome job I wish I had your patience and talent.
Just keep up the good work all you guys Marc, Jerry & MJ there is so much to learn from you guys.
Jerry
Brass Show-off. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Marc
Beautiful work, Marty! Man, don't bump that!
Thanks guys!
Marc, its "Brass Hole"
Chuck, its actually pretty stout, but I wouldnt wanna step on it!
Here is a shot of the second ladder in the "jig"
The two nuts are 5/16 so they measure .500" - two feet in O scale.
The large flat aluminum squares hold the sides of the ladder against the nuts. The large steel blocks keep everything in place.
The whole thing sits on a piece of glass over my cutting mat.
Then I just tweaked it all square and soldered away!
This is how I do most of my assembling using spacers, weights and glass.
Hope this helps.
-Marty
It's been a busy week and weekend, but I had some time this afternoon, and gave the Molino Timber Company flat a whack.
So here is what I got done so far today.
The original cars appear to have been 4?-6? x 20?. Using the FMW frame, and lopping off the side sills?.will leave you the intermediate sills as being exactly 4?-6? wide, and pretty close to the dimensions that the MTCo. Side sills were.
MTCo?s side sills however extended beyond the end sills (there?s some technical name for this, but I can?t recall it)?..to recreate this Styrene strip was laminated up to the proper dimensions and then attached. Fro, the photos it appears that MTCo had only one needle beam, so the existing cast in needle beam locations on the FMW frame needed to be filled with strip styrene; and a new set of notches for the single needle-beam needed to be milled at the center of the car (the piece of .005 styrene in one of the new needle beam cuts is a correction?.likely due to frame flex during clamping, the mill ?bit? a little too deep, and thus the notch needed some filling.)
Next, the bolsters were cut and sanded to their new width, ?end-grained? and installed. From the images it appears that the MTCo cars had their bolsters flush behind the side sills?but I chose to ?interperet? the design here a bit for expediency..and in order to better utilize the FMW frame.
I didn?t have any good reference image of the end sills, buffer or draft timbers of the MTCo. cars,?..so since this is the FMW Challenge, I just went with the stock FMW parts. The ends of all these pieces were also ?end-grained? prior to installing.
Next will be narrowing the kit needle-beam, adding the car hardware and stake pockets, and then she should be ready for primer. After that I will move on to either the deck, or building the trucks.
Marc
Ta Da!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Mj
Real nice another outstanding build by you!! Can't wait to see the next project in its finished stage.
Jerry
I've had very good luck making brass ladders using ceramic foam that I got from Micro Mark and 'T'-pins. Here's one on the back of the K-27. I just pin, measure and solder a bottom rung, straighten everything and do a top rung. Then a center and so on. No jig, ladders are straight and I make various types quite quickly.
John
Marty,
Congrats on finishing it. Looking good.....now on to the next one!
John,
great ladder and beautiful scratch detailing in the tender.
Marc
John, thanks for sharing, I often wonered if that stuff worked.
Question; was it hard to form the bend on the bottoms of the ladder going against the shape?
any tips?
Thanks Marc, and yes! on to the next one!
-Marty
Marty
The stuff works very well and I use it all the time. Makes little soldering jobs so much easier when you can 'pin' things together while you solder. As for the bends, I anneal the area by clamping a heat sink (pliers etc.) just beyond and heat to a dull red. Once soft, it is just a matter of working the bend around. Bend a little, then straighten, bend some more and so on.
John
QuoteBend a little, then straighten, bend some more and so on.
John
...oh sure...just that easy...I can't even begin to describe the fiasco I would probably end up with! :-X :-\ :'( >:(
Marc
Listen, McGuyer, just because you are an excellent pattern maker and can work miracles with brass, don't expect clods like me to just heat things red hot and bend 'em. The brasswork on your models looks as though a jeweler meticulously and lovingly crafted it. I rejoice when I manage a simple, clean solder joint; I can't imagine even attempting your artistry.
Russ
QuoteI anneal the area by clamping a heat sink (pliers etc.) just beyond and heat to a dull red.
Flaming handwork ;D ;D ;D John, fantastic results, but I have to agree with Marc, for us simple modelers...........
styrene is already a challenge. ;)
Jacq
Thank you guys. I just have to remember not to hold the parts while they are red hot.
John
Guys, the tips on the soldering are great as are the results you both created. I wonder is there a specific place where tips like this are all compiled?
Marc, I was wondering you had any time to put the tips for the wood together yet? I just don't want to miss it if you posted it in its own thread. Thanks for always sharing men, quality results as usual. Pat
Reply to Belg's question on wood has been moved here as a new topic so as to make the topic easier to find and contribute to:
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=215.msg1957#msg1957
Marc
Thanks Marc, your very right in that different scales approach things very differently, I have tried some of Mic Greenberg's methods from his cards and they do not translate well to HO scale at all. Right now I start with a thinned floquil cp gray with laquer thinner, brushing this on but trying not to get full coverage, using a file card and a scratchbrush to impart grain, when painting I use an open container of thinner and dip into it to help vary the color slightly. After assembling the walls, I plan on using a mixture of turpentine and chalks to wash the wood to get graining pattern. I'm thinking so far my hand has been slightly heavy so the grain will be a little to pronounced, but it will be a heavily weathered structure so might not be too bad. This is one of the 4 walls I have build so far, I think if I do the rafters 16" on center it might look a little too crowded but will see when I get a little further along. Sorry for posting in your thread Marc, but this is where we started our conversation. If it could be moved that would be fine with me, Thanks Pat
I gave up on the wood...just wasn't getting the right look/feel in conjunction with the styrene frame....so in the interest of moving the project forward, I went for a different approach, using styrene "wood".
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Marc
Beautiful knots! And the model looks almost exactly like your 3D drawing -- just gorgeous. Really shaping up nicely.
Russ
Thanks Russ...I was glad to get some time at the bench.
This though is actually not the car from the 3D drawing (that one needs several hundred more holes drilled before I can move forward)...this is the Molino Timber Co. inspired car from the photos in this post. ;D
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=109.msg1885#msg1885
Marc
I was not happy with the real wood finish/appearance/texture,..and I really prefer working in styrene over wood?..so I needed to start experiment/learning how to do acceptable ?styrene wood?.
The board/wood process is of course again one of those things that falls into the ?grain vs. no grain? , ?scale grain effect?, and ?prototypical vs. caricature? debates.
Two initial issues:
The smooth properties of styrene really require that one either ??faux paint? or scribe grain that the eventual ?washes? will fill/follow/accentuate. In the end it will likely come down to some kind of combination of both methods.
The Molino cars that I used for inspiration are somewhat caricatures in themselves, and looking at the photos, the deck boards ranged from new to a beat up jumble?.depending on which cars and photos one looks at. So?. since logging does tend to beat up cars pretty heavily?and the caricature of the cars I felt I had some leeway in distressing the boards.
Creating the Boards:
1). Cut the strip styrene to slightly longer than the required length.
2). Using a disk sander with 180 grain disk; tightly stack the boards into a block, and batch sand the ends to get them to the proper length and to create the ?radial end graining? . Take care not to press the stack too fast/hard/long into the disk sander, or you can fuse all the pieces together. By lightly holding the block/stacks in the same location on the disk (not moving side to side) one can deepen/accentuate the end grain a bit because the styrene will pick up the path of the grains on the disk (make sense?) Also a note?as whenever disk sanding small or flexible pieces, it is advisable to attach or use a piece of material (in my case Masonite) to the sanders table surface, so as to minimize/close the gap between the disk and the table?this will prevent warping/deforming of the pieces and lessen the sanding flash.
3). Once the pieces have been sanded to their proper length and disassembled from the stacks back into individual pieces, a #11 Xacto is used to carefully trim some of the excess sanding flash from all sides at both ends.
4.) Using the #11, 4-6 score/spawl/grain lines were cut into the board surface. (I try to keep these to a shallow arc at most?otherwise it makes it hard to follow in the following steps).
5.) Once all the boards have been scored, the #11 is used to nick, spawl , and wear the edges as desired/needed. The Xacto is also used to create shallow long ?V? cuts in from the ends of the boards (often easily done by following one of the initial score lines) .
6). Next, each board is individually ?grained?, using the Micro-Mark wire pencil. This is drawn in the grain direction and if possible, following the previous score marks. I use/adjust a very short stiff bristle for this, and try to draw in a single continuous pull/stroke from one end of the board to the other. (This is not always possible if you have no room to hold the piece down)..so I may need to start ? of the way in, and then pull. The pull should extend off the end of the piece. If you are wanting more or deeper grain, make sure you pull in the same direction (along the previous pull/grain)?otherwise you will ?cross-grain??and that is not a typical wood feature. (If I need to start part way across a board I will then turn it and repeat on the yet un-grained end. Care needs to be take to try to align/match the grain direction/location and quality, from the first part.)
7). When all the boards have been grained ?0000? steel wool is used to remove surface fuzz, and excessive raised styrene grain edges. The steel wool is rubbed along the direction of the grain till the desired surface finish is achieved (this is often just a3-5 firm passes). I often/generally will steel-wool several pieces, laid tightly side-by-side at once, as this helps reduce the edge ?easing?/rounding that the steel wool can cause.
8 ). Lastly I will take each piece, and using the #11, clean up any new burrs/fuzz/flash that has occurred at the ends of the boards.
(Note the steel wool will leave fuzz/pieces/and discoloration on/slightly embedded, in the styrene. When all the pieces have been ?wooled? I go over them with a stiff brush to remove any embedded wool??and of course all the pieces are also washed in warm water and dish detergent using a stiff brush, prior to painting.
Creating The Knots:
The Knots were made with .020, .030, and .040 styrene rod. After the boards were grained, the appropriate (slightly larger than the rod) size holes were drilled at a slight angle through the deck boards (the angle allows for a more elliptical shape to the hole)....the styrene rod is then trimmed/cut at a matching angle and inserted into the hole (turned so that the cut rod surface is parallel to the deck board), and held just a bit below the deck level [knots are generally level with the board surface, but I wanted to create some visual differentiation...and give the eventual paint/washes a place to settle and accentuate the knot appearance]. Glue is then lightly applied to the protruding rod from the rear of the board, (don?t use too much, or it will melt/weld the seam together too much, and you will lose the definition), and once dry cut off flush. On boards that will be seen from both sides, the rod should be held back a bit more from the primary face, and then cut from the rear right after lightly applying liquid glue....then (while glue has not yet fully set) carefully pressed/recessed into the hole with the tips of tweezers or a toothpick. This will result in a slightly indented knot from both sides.
In defense of the Knots and Grain:
My "wood" had a combination of several factors that contributed to not having the grain looping around the hole effect:
1.) I was too lazy to deal with it at this scale...and was a bit tight on time.
2.) Because of the graining technique/approach I use it was better to do the knots after...as it keeps the hole edges sharp/crisp...and I didn't plan for their location beforehand.
3.) It's a bit of a pain on 4-6" long x10" boards to get the wire pencil to behave properly and "loop" around the knots in the correct manner. There is no real place to hold the boards?as one needs to start and stop the wire pencil stroke off or at the very end of the board, also when applying the pressure and smoothness of pull required to get a good grain finish the wire pencil tends to want to go in one direction..or at best a slight curve/arc...could probably be done around the knots with some patience and practice?and maybe a smaller pencil....but that goes back to reason #1. [:-grin]
Installation:
On the deck, I decided to not fit the boards ?tight? against each other. I left just the slightest bit of space to accentuate the individual boards, and give the paint and washes somewhere to ?go?, so as not to have a problem of ?filling? the small board joint had it been tightly fitted??plus looking at the prototype, they didn?t have a real tight fit either?and wood shrinks over time [:-grin]
Marc (phew?what a long winded explanation of knot-holes and boards!)
Marc,
What are you planning to use for trucks? If I remember correctly, the Molino used German Orenstein&Koppel type trucks ( source: Shelburne, D J, Molino Timber Co. - The Liliput Ridge-Runner, Pacific News, August 1971 ).
/Lennart Elg
http://web.telia.com/~u85436044/30inch/molino.html (http://web.telia.com/~u85436044/30inch/molino.html)
Hi Lennart,
Funny you should ask...I started buiding the trucks today...well, making the parts.
They will be built out of styrene channel, and i plan to use the Grandt Journal bearings. The Grandt pieces unfortunately are Delrin :-X, and have a long mounting pin, so I will need to make some adjustments to hide the pin, and allow me to anchor the delrin part. I will also be using an angle iron at the truck frame ends to connect them and help with integrity. Though these two items will cause the trucks to not be exactly like the Molino prototypes, they should still have the basic "feel"....which should be OK as the car is really only Molino "inspired". ;) ::).
The detail I will be using for the sideframe/bearings will likely be the same as or sim to the one I used here on this side dump car project
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_SideDumpCar%2FMR_SideDumpFrameAndTip.jpg&hash=a25278cba63d8639f88add47319a59c094b826a6)
The wheels will also be the same as the ones in the side dump project (If I can find some in my scrap boxes....or find 2 Grandt kits to pirate them from ;D)
Marc
After my post/reply to Lennart's question last night I began thinking about another way to attach the delrin journals to the styrene frame, and making the assmlby rigid and lasting, while keeping the look of the Molino prototype.
This is a quick test and it's result: [The wheels are from a different project, but will be sim. The final truck will be 8" longer.]
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_MolinoFlat%2FMR_MolinoFlat_TruckFrameTest.jpg&hash=46aaaa4a66e6a6a6d350bd96bbb42bf560c0dae1)
Since dellrin does not bond well and the journals needed to be securely mounted to the truck frame, I decided on a "mechanical" method of fastening rather than adhesive.
The prototype car has a spacer/mounting block like on the test example, between the bearing journal, and the frame. On the test this was made from .030 x .080, through which was drilled a .031 hole (into this will be inserted the .032 mounting pin found on the Grandt Journal). The the hole on one side of the styrene is then reamed/partially beveled halfway through the strip, using a .048 bit. Then Using a #11 Xacto, two V-shaped nothes are cut into the surface, extending from the reamed hole, on opposite sides. (these will help keep the journal from rotating once installed)
The journal with its mounting pin is then inserted through the hole from the unreamed side. When firmly seated, heated tweezers are used to melt the portruding pin flat, pressing the molten delrin firmy into the reamed area, and v-grooves. When hardened, the Xacto was used to trim away any exces molten delrin.
Lastly, the block with the attached journal was then glued to the underside of the styrene channel.
Marc
Thought I would show and clarify what the Molino "trucks were all about.
This is a detail view of the prototype (I have not found this exact model of truck in any of my 3 O&K catalogs, so it could be that this was a special order, or modified from a small "car frame".) Note the inside hung brakes.
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This is a catalog cut from a period O&K catalog which shows one of their "typical" trucks, and shows a view of what the cross bracing/pivot looked like on these types of trucks (some Molino cars used this type of truck rather than the one shown in the photo above):
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Note in the cut above, the springs between the journal bearings and the truck frame; note that in the prototype photo, instead of springs this area has been filled by a wooden block. This was available in both ways, from the Mfr., or was able to be "field modified"
This is a catalog cut showing the type of Journal Bearings shown in the prototype photo:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_MolinoFlat%2FOK_Bearings.jpg&hash=c595c2c068df5a10cca48f9b465f865b0e1a5f36)
Marc
For those new to industrial modeling or who never really paid attention, "roller bearing journals" were very common on small rolling stock. Many Pennsylvania and California logging disconnects had them and, of course, thousands of ore and cane cars. They are very simple, almost crude in design, but look just right under a lot of cars. In most cases, the journals mount directly to the underside of the side sills of smaller wooden ore and log cars.
Marc, Chuck, Gordon, and a few others probably could create an encyclopedia about this subject with all kinds of great rolling stock examples. So my little paragraph is just for the uninitiated.
Russ
Shucks...you're makin me blush! :-[
Here is the entire catalog page for those that might be interested:
http://www.steaminthewoods.com/International/OK_Catalog_WheelBearings.jpg (http://www.steaminthewoods.com/International/OK_Catalog_WheelBearings.jpg)
Marc
I finally got myself to build the trucks for the car.
The main parts are Evergreen Hill styrene channels & sheet, .020 & .025 rivets from Tichy, 18" whells from Grandt with new axels, and holes drilled in the wheels. Brake hardware for the one "braked" truck, was cobbled together from code 55 rail, brass wire, some brake shoes (Grandt?) from the scrap parts box, and pivots made using the "cut lever" brackets supplied in the FMW kit. The roller bearings are from Grandt, and he truck pivot bearing is from the McLeod trucks that come with the kit, and the black NBW's are also from McLeod. Pror to assembly all the Delrin parts were scrubbed with a Micro-Mark fiberglass pencil, so as to give the surface a bit of tooth, so the primer and paint would adhere better.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_MolinoFlat%2FMR_Molino_TruckRaw.jpg&hash=0264645720aa683c97a726849c48ab69fe6eeea7)
Here they are once primered with Mr Surfacer. [Unfortunately I grabbed my can of 500 instead of 1200, and that combined with the hot dry weather today when I shot them, gave me a bit of texture/orange peel in the finsh, that was not easily rectifiable...so I left it figuring it might work to my advantage during weathering.]
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And lastly, two views of the car with the trucks underneath. At this point it is pretty much ready for paint. ?.which is too bad in a way, because I actually like it in the monochromatic primer color. Not shown are couplers, truss rods and brake staff stuff?and the chains for binding the loads and retaining the bulkheads?..as those will all be attached after paint.
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Though shorter than the original by 4?,and some difference in the end sill/coupler set-up, I think it captures the spirit/feel of the Molino cars ok. Not too unhappy with it.
Marc
Time is fleeting for me to get these done.....and now it's back to the one that got me into this in the first place...the cane car...which has proven to be way more work than I ever anticipated for something that seems so relatively simple in design and construction. :-\
Due to time I am taking some shortcuts with this project and no longer drilling all the holes for all the remaining needed NBWS (I plan to try just gluing them on in the end, and hoping a light weathering will hide any glue that might happen to show).
At this point the center and then the outer bulkheads were glued in place, then the end boards were added, which was followed by the .060 styrene angle "steel" frame. What became very apparent here was that the frame had developed a slight bow of about .5mm to .7mm (being lower at the center)....as there was no good way to rectify this without having the deck slats start to pop off, I decided to leave it, and use it to show a car with a slight amount of "sag". This though also necessited that the "steel" angles be shaped and installed with a sim bow/sag.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_CaneCar%2FMR_CaneCar_Sides1.jpg&hash=7755e748985b6291e17cf63ef89ddb5327912395)
Next came the side stakes:
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Once the stakes were in place, what showed up was that the deck slats have a bit of "variation" in their paralell-ness.....not enough to see when looking at the deck alone....but definitely apparent when the side stakes went on (due to their alignment with the stakes on oposite sides). Also, I was off in the overall dimension of the two bays One being 2.225" the other being 2.250".....thus causing the stake spacing to be slightly different by .005". :-\ ::)
So...next it's on to the diagonal braces, gussets, and starting to place some of the NBWS that can go on prior to paint.....and of course fabricating the "custom" trucks.
Marc
So this is where I am currently at with this. still lacking some detail parts and the trucks, and some 75-100 rivet heads, before I can shoot primer. [The holes that you see are for some additional 350+ rivet heads and nut/bolt details that need to be added after the car receives its final paint]
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Marc
Finally got over one of the last construction hurdles with the cane car....the construction of the trucks.
The prototype car only had braking on one of the trucks, and they were inside hung.
I wanted to replicate the feel of the archbar trucks, as well as the ride height proportion of the images in the catalog cut. Unfortunately the McLeod Russel trucks were intended to be used with car hung brakes, and their wheelbase is too short to install inside hung. The appearance of the McLeods was also not right for the desired look.
I decided to use the side frames from Grandts 2'ga Gilpin trucks. Because these are made of delrin, and will not hold glue well enough to stand up to the use, some creative engineering was needed. The Grandt bolster that came with them was too narrow, so the 36"-ga bolster that came with the Russell trucks was modified, by cutting a section out of the middle, and re-bonding them to eventually space the Grandt sideframes for 30"-ga. The russel trucks also needed some shimming at each end, to create the proper plastic thickness, a solid styrene brace was inserted into the bolster for stiffness/bond. Once the GL frames were cleaned and "roughed" with the fiberglass brush, the mounting tabs were trimmed to fit the Russel bolster slots. After inserting into the slots, a piece of strip styrene was glued across the entore bolster bottom to lock the frames in place.
New bearing pivot plates were made from styrene, and part of a GL D&RG steel bolster. The brake rigging was made from a combination of styrene, the FMW coupler lever brackets, Grandt brake shoes, code 55 rail, and some .022 brass rod.
Though not prototypical, the visual appearance from the side when installed under the car provides the visual effect and detail I was after.
Here is a quick snappie of the trucks prior to primer (sorry for the poor quality pic)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_CaneCar%2FMR_CaneCar_082808.jpg&hash=aed23c4c151ecd82abfeea11867660c37a504517)
Marc
Lastly,
Here is some progress, and quick pics, on the logging flat. It is still missing the brake staff hardware, the binder/log chain anchors (as well as the chains), and the 4 truss rods.....this will all be added after painting. The deck is temporarily held in place for the NNGC with double stick tape.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_28LogFlat%2FMR_28Flat_082808.jpg&hash=00998b5d712f87848f5bc3f11aae32b9f074846b)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_28LogFlat%2FMR_28Flat082808_2.jpg&hash=2ce3067f5c17921cc71ff6e136c0a96ab1e00603)
Marc
Those trucks are a model in and of themselves!
I am really looking forward to seeing the cars in person.
The gray on the flat really looks good, don't know if I'd paint it! (will see when I see it).
-Marty
Awesome job Marc!
I am a crazy modeller, but you are even more crasy than me! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Marc
Sure glad you didn't leave this forum compleltely. Those trucks are just outstanding actually the whole thing it should be a real pleasure to see this in Portland! Big question are you going to answer questions or do we have to depend on Marty for this??
Jerry
Thanks for the kind words guys. It's really not that special. The hardest part was just finding all the parts for the look, and figuring how to get all the diaparate materials together, so that they would hold and function.
Here is a pic of the trucks with the inside hung brakes after primer.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbadesign.net%2FTERRAPIN%2FReusser%2FMR_CaneCar%2FMR_CaneCar090308.jpg&hash=04dff5d6080b45802b4cf73856fe70de6b023af2)
Now I just have to finish up some small details on some of the cars, and pack them up.
Final details such as remaining bolts and clamps, chains, chain hooks, binders, etc. will all be added after the convention during the painting and weathering process.
Jerry: I will not be going to Portland. I was planning to, had all my reservations, fees and rentals paid, but eventually came to the conclusion that there was really no reason for me to go (I hate the layout tours...and don't care for ayouts in general, and can't stand being packed into small rooms with people that take up way more than their "allotted" space, and that really need to shower once a day but don't realize it, just to listen to what are mostly fairly inane and useless "clinics")....the only thing of interest is usually the vendors......and the bar......and just to see that, the time and money was better spent on other pursiuts.
Marc
Those things are friggin AWESOME!
The little details abound really make these impressive.
Too bad most of it will be lost underneath and hard to see.
How about making a mold and popping out about a dozen!
Glad these will be on display.
I still have so much to learn...............
-Marty
Shucks..thanks....
It really was nothing. (esp. compared to some of the stuff you have been cobbling together of late)
I think there was more "hurry-up-and-get-it-done" involved than anything else.....
Marc
Forget the car; just enter the trucks in a contest. -- Russ
P.S.: There are three reasons to attend a convention. First the model contest. Second a few vendors. Third, and most importantly, the bar.
Unfortunately model contests now tend to be less inspirational than they once were but most shows have at least half a dozen good entries.
The prizes sometimes fail to reward the best models. Examples? Mic Greenberg went home without a prize three years ago in Detroit. Chuck Doan entered two masterpieces in Santa Clara and went home without a mention. Mal Ferrell scratchbuilt a very nice brass Shay but the winner had put hideous weathering, antlers, and chains on a Bachmann Shay and walked off with a blue ribbon.
I buy little from vendors but rarely have I failed to order a cognac from the bar. It's often a necessity after finding out who won the model contest ....
I am looking forward to raising a few in the bar with you this year Unc. (you too Younger)
First ones on me.
-Marty
Greetings everyone!
God I thought the bar came first!
Yes in Portland, Me. there was a Grist Mill that came home without anything also. But he is back with vengeance's this year. "CRITTERS" rule.
Yes Marc, Russ is right enter the trucks. To bad your not going to be there between me and Marty you could have gotten half loaded and forgot about all the other people. Well some year I'm sure will meet until then just keep the models and parts coming.
Jerry
Yep, it would have been fun to get together with all you guys....that was really my main and only reason for going (aside from supporting Jerry Kitt's effort)........but I really did come to the realization that it was an expensive trip to the bar....especially factoring in days away from the office/work.
And after seeing Marty's entry into the Gas-Mech category of the contest, there was no reason for me to try and bring my puny critter.....thanks, but I can suffer humilitaion and defeat at home just as well ;) ;D ;D
I hope you guys have a great time.
Marc
Yea marc, I had you penciled in to work my table on Fri. from 6:00pm - 10:00pm. I needed your help to push the stockcar sales!! ;D
-Jon
Ooooh...yeah Jon....good marketing strategy.....I'm such a "people person" ;D ;D ;D.
I did that for LID at the last convention I attended..... I actually kind of enjoyed it.....but then nobody knew who I was so that might have helped ;D
I am sorry I will miss seeing you and getting to chat. I hope everything goes well for you.
Marc
Jon, your stock car (as Marc designed and built it) will appear in the December Modelers' Annual. It should sell itself. But if you need help alienating, insulting, and aggravating people, I'll volunteer to replace Marc. Unless I'm giving a clinic .... -- Russ
Russ,
you are welcome to "hang out :o " at my table as much as you like. I would enjoy the company!
-Jon