Here's a quickie Cobalt rendering of the Heywood wheel center for the Brake Van (superstructure design is covered in another thread). I'm thinking this will be a good test for the PAP process. I'm pleased with the center structure itself, it's taken directly from the prototype profile (the cross section profile was simply converted to a curve and revolved around the axle center to form a solid), but I'm not happy yet with the lettering. It's going to need more work. For one thing it's too small and the letter spacing is not correct. Unfortunately I'm having difficulties controlling the letter spacing in the 3D program so it's going to take a little more work. I may layout the text in Illustrator and input it into the CAD software though that may cause issues extruding the text... need to experiment.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheel.jpg&hash=a91c9e6a1aee5ed9b9881935321a4ae2d5ff6e35)
The plan is to "print" 4 wheel centers on a sprue (enough for one van) and stack four or five sprues, whatever will fit within the size limitations of the PAP process thereby printing enough centers for four or five vans at once.
Paul
Ahhh...now I see the wheel (very cool btw.).....that means part of my comment to you on FB is not going to be fully applicabale (I thought it was spoked)....I don't think that the PAP resolution is going to really print the letters.....I could be wrong though it did wonders on Chucks gas pump. Give it a shot....it can always be sanded out if it doesn't come out clean.
So lets talk sprue....what are the dims on this part?
Marc
No, not spoked... actually a very simple wheel. We could chrome them and make some baby moons... ;D Chuck's success with the lettering for his pump is what is encouraging me with this part. I'm going to redo the lettering to make it larger before I proceed with the printing. If it doesn't work, I'll just sand it off as you suggest, but I'm hoping I'll get something visible. It also occurred to me I could make the lettering deeper as well as larger, thinking it could always be sanded down in the jeweler's lathe to the height desired.
The wheels are tiny. In 1:24, the outside diameter is .5625" (13.50"), width below the tread .125" (3"). The centers are the same width but slightly smaller in diameter.
I'm thinking four centers per sprue, printed horizontal to get the smoothest surfaces on the visible faces. I'm also thinking the center will attach to sprue arms at the back of the hub (leaving a partial axle hole on the front of the wheel center that could be bored out on the lathe). The sprue arms would make a right angle turn below the wheel center and connect to a main central sprue. This would form a layer maybe 1/4" high overall. I think this would be preferable to having the sprues attach to the outside diameter surface of the wheel center. I want to keep that as true as possible requiring minimal cleanup.
Here's a quick view of the back of the wheel center. I'm thinking the sprue will extend out of the axle hole on this side.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelback.jpg&hash=f2c90d0800acaff7632bb8ab0883c146158cadaa)
Paul
The L shaped arm connecting sprue sounds like a good idea...You would probably not need to lap it into the cener hole much at all...maybe .010 at most...that like you say could be easily machined out. I think with the sprue connector like you mention, you could easily do all 4 sets of 4 wheels off of (1) .125 square vertical center post (4 wheels stacked off each surface/side of the center post), the L for the bottom 4 wheels forming a cross stand so to speak. The whole setup would take up about as much room as my recent print excercise.
Ine thing to consider re. the outside surface of the wheels, is again the texture...you may want to make the surface there somewhat thicker, so you can machine or surface it, perfectly smooth and to the exact dia.
M
Yes Marc, that's what I'm thinking. Returned to the lettering problem again this morning and as yet no good solution. I laid out the lettering in Illustrator and converted it into a dwg file which I then imported into Cobalt. However, the lettering is set round a 5 inch dia. path and when I imported it, that path converted to one 12 feet in diameter :o :o... ahh, that's not going to work, so I'm still experimenting. Very frustrating...
The thin cross section on the outer rim of the wheel center is 1/2" thick at the outside edge on the prototype which translates to approx .020" thick in 1:24... perhaps a little thin. I'm actually rethinking the scale of this project. In 1:24, the van's overall dimensions would be 1.5" W. x 3" long, pretty tiny and challenging to reproduce all the joinery in the superstructure. I'm starting to think that it would be better in 1" scale, certainly easier on these old eyes. It would still be small 3" x 6" but I wouldn't have to make as many compromises on the details.
Paul
Maybe come from it in another direction .. determine what finished size you would like .. and then figure the scale to get that size
Here's a quick view of the wheel with tire in place... just wanted to see what the full package looked like.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelTire.jpg&hash=dbc4c983ffb1d51054a6dc4091d6e1ee85c315d6)
That's a good point Ed and is what has me thinking about 1" scale, doubling the size. The overall grandiose and life-long plan is to build the Brake Van, followed by a couple of the goods wagons and then the locomotive Katie all to be displayed on a diorama of the Belgrave engine shed on the 15" gauge Eaton Hall Railway, ca. 1896. The rolling stock is all diminutive so well suited to the larger scale. The locomotive is only 8' long x 3' wide. The engine shed however at 39 ft L., 20 ft W. & just under 17 ft H. would be fairly sizable at that scale. The more I think about it, the more I believe it would be the best way to do the subjects justice.
Paul
I've made the decision to change this project from 1:24 to 1:12 due in large part to the diminutive nature of these prototypes and the precision standards I have in mind for these Heywood pieces. Since I intend to replicate the prototype joinery work in the superstructure, the larger scale will aid that process. The parts to be printed by PAP have some very thin cross sections which would be problematic in 1:24 but substantial enough in 1:12 to allow for any necessary clean-up or truing. Meanwhile... back to the cast lettering issue on the wheel centers.
Paul
Paul,
wow! A big decision but one that I'm sure will add to the appeal of the project.
One thought I had whilst catching up on your progress with the wheels... have you considered adding the tyres to your drawings for Print a Part and then getting the wheels investment cast in Nickel Silver? May be a less relevant idea in 1/12 due to cost and as you will also have larger mating surfaces but is true to the one piece nature of the original wheels and may end up saving a lot of time... just a suggestion!
Regards
James
Wow!
Great move, Paul. I'm excited to see what you can do at 1" scale (my preferred scale, too).
For wheel rims, you should check out Gary Watkins (Sierra Valley Enterprises). He is the de-facto standard wheel maker for 7/8" and 1" scale, and he could probably CNC the wheel rims and axles for you, in steel, to your specs. Tell him Carlo sent ya. http://www.sierravalleyenterprises.com
Also, I believe that there are lost wax brass Heywood parts (couplers, journals, etc.) available in 1" scale from England, but I can't remember the name offhand.
Carlo
OK, finally sorted out the raised lettering. For some reason Cobalt doesn't allow you to adjust the spacing between letters when letters are set along a path. To remedy this I created a template image in Illustrator which allowed me to set the text in the correct size, font and letter spacing round the circle. After importing the template image into Cobalt, I set each letter individually as a separate object using the Illustrator template as a guide. Each letter was then extruded into a 3D object, the top face and edges chamfered to more closely represent cast-on letters and the entire set up attached to the front face of the wheel. In this way I was able to get the correct font style, size and letter spacing to better replicate the original.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheel2.jpg&hash=944a7f7deffbe6fc7431de36a343ae4056a044b2)
Carlo... thanks for the input. I have a note somewhere in my files about the UK company producing the brass Heywood parts. Believe I contacted them last spring for some information but didn't get a response. I'll have to do some more digging, but I'm still considering producing them myself. Will largely depend on cost.
James... yes, I've also considered producing the wheels as a single casting, replicating the originals. Again it will be a matter of cost, but it's certainly worth investigating.
Paul
Don't forget PAP has some max size limitations. Great looking wheel!
Thanks Chuck. Yes, I'm aware of their size limitations. This wheel is just over 1" in dia. and .25" deep. Their limitations will mean I won't be able to have as many centers printed at once, probably no more than three sets of four sprued up. I may just have one set of four done the first time just to see how they come out.
Paul
I figured you did. I was also thinking about doing something in 1/12th.
Paul -
The British Company is Talisman Castings, at http://www.talismancastings.net
The owner, Peter Coulter died recently, but the business is being carried on by Si Harris (modelearth). His contact info is on this web site too. Great 1" scale brass castings of Heywood hardware.
Carlo
Quote from: Roughboy on September 08, 2010, 02:48:14 PM
Thanks Chuck. Yes, I'm aware of their size limitations. This wheel is just over 1" in dia. and .25" deep. Their limitations will mean I won't be able to have as many centers printed at once, probably no more than three sets of four sprued up. I may just have one set of four done the first time just to see how they come out.
Paul
Remember that the price drops significantly if you print more than one part from the same masterfile.
Regards,
Haavard
I've scaled the drawings to 1:12 (wheel was originally drawn full-scale) and laid up four wheel centers on sprues. The back view shows how the sprues come out of the axle holes on the back of the wheels. The plan is to cut off the bulk of the sprues, then drill out the remainder of the axle hole, thus avoiding having to clean up sprue remnants from any of the visible surfaces. I decided to try just one set of wheels first to see how they turn out. If successful, then I'll layup multiples on the same sprue network for a second go-round.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelPAPLayup.jpg&hash=cc22b2937f523ae1ce5551988b9a1176ae88b6d1)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelPAPLayupBk.jpg&hash=26f5ac3f268d1f47a8f1281dee8665fd1a0c1967)
Next step is to output the STL file and send it off to PAP for their assessment and quote.
Paul
Paul, What will these wheels go on? Craig
Craig:
These are the wheel centers for the four-wheel Heywood Brake Van, 15" gauge, now in 1:12 scale. Drawings and other info on the van's superstructure are here: http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=680.0
Paul
Please be sure to keep us up to date on this project! -- Russ
Paul,
I really like the sprue idea, but I seem to recall someone here(maybe Chuck?) tried that and the PAP folks didn't like it for some reason. Or it could be since I turned 50 last month I have CRS disease...
Paul, and anyone else interested in 1:13.7 up to 1:6 scale modeling,
check out http://www.7-8ths.info/
It's a forum for these very large scales, and is in sections by scale.
There is a contingent of 1" scale Heywood modelers, and there are some pretty good
scale modelers here, along with assorted live steam nuts, and garden train guys too.
Carlo
Thanks for the tip Carlo. There is a lot of good information available on that forum. I've been able to track down some prototype references through contacts I've made there. Haven't posted much there though, really only time enough to keep up with this one... :)
Paul
Carlo:
I checked out the link for Talisman Castings. Their Heywood couplers are 7/8ths, couldn't find a listing for them in 1" scale unless I'm missing something. Another company in the UK is making Heywood loco couplers in 1" scale, but they are slightly different than the rolling stock couplers. These are the people I was in contact with previously: David and Paul Bailey at DJB Model Engineering Ltd. (http://www.djbengineering.co.uk/) They also produce name plates for Katie in 1" which look very nice in their photos. Their parts are pricey, 10£ plus shipping per coupler, 20£ plus shipping for a set of Katie name and worksplates, but the quality appears to be quite good. I think at those prices, I'll do them myself...
Paul
Based on a discussion with an individual who has used Printapart commercially for the past couple of years, I made some changes to the layup file for the wheel centers. As you can see I've stacked the centers vertically, separated by approx. .060" - the lowest wheel center is raised about the same amount from the x-y plane base line to prevent any resolution problems on the lowest surface. This setup greatly reduces the overall volume of the printed piece.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelPAPLayupV2.jpg&hash=12967e28dd5134f7b431cdb37bb065a3c915cbbd)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelPAPLayupV2a.jpg&hash=c5c003321bee0dbc974f8a6311dbdd73556cbfea)
I did find out that Printapart.com is part of Fineline Prototyping (http://www.finelineprototyping.com/) which specializes in industrial rapid prototyping. Essentially Printapart is a business venture aimed to jewellery designers and hobbyists used to fill in the open spaces in the printer around the industrial parts being prototyped. They have a wide range of materials available and can also colour, texture, plate, soft-touch paint the RP parts and produce clear parts.... this may be an answer to produce clear glass globes for gasoline pumps Chuck, though I expect it's a little more pricey than the regular PAP product. They can also do things like micro stereo-lithography with the ability to produce exceptionally tiny parts - resolution in the 30-40 micron range :o. Exciting stuff...
Paul
Does that mean they have the ability to produce parts to higher resolution than we have seen? -- Russ
Quote from: finescalerr on September 16, 2010, 01:55:29 AM
Does that mean they have the ability to produce parts to higher resolution than we have seen? -- Russ
Yes. But the price is way higher.
I posted some comments on the online quoting and prices at the end of this thread:
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=979.45 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=979.45)
I havent gotten around to look into the matter that Chuck rises at the very end of the thread.
-Haavard
I've created another variation of the STL file for Printapart. I had been informed that since the part was actually an assemblage of multiples of the same part (4 wheel centers), a sprue and base weren't necessary and removing that component would reduce the printing cost some. I also filled in the axle holes as boring them out in the lathe will result in greater accuracy. The centers are separated by .050" and the entire assemblage is set approx .030" above the x-y axis baseline to insure accurate printing of the back face of the lowest center. The overall dimensions for the assemblage are 1.0787" dia. x 1.19117" H. The file as submitted was accepted at Printapart, no apparent errors. The print cost however is somewhat higher than I expected at $76.00 Economy (compared to $78.00 with sprue). That translates to a per wheel cost of $19.00 - such is the price we pay for historical accuracy.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelPAPLayupV4.jpg&hash=cbd9e3454fa5d0e15bb40539232519fe8d927ccb)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelPAPLayupbkV4.jpg&hash=4100c864fd061210360ca7530de0596ade7bd7f9)
Paul
I can see how the printer would lay up the resin to create each wheel but how did you devise a way to break apart the printed wheels? Does the center core thin down enough to slice with a razor? Did you create very small pillars between each wheel center? Or is there some other arcane device you concocted? -- Russ
No, nothing arcane. The wheels are not attached to each other except electronically. According to my PAP guru, the PAP process fills voids between parts with a waxy substance, supporting the part during printing. After printing they remove the bulk of this material before shipping. In this case, after removal of the wax, I should be left with four individual centers. The only reason to use a sprue would be in the instance when you are printing several tiny parts (such as Marc did on his latest venture) to prevent anything from being lost. These wheel centers are fairly large compared to the other parts we've seen printed on the forum. How much cleanup there will be is the question, but since the wheels can be spun in the lathe, it shouldn't present a problem. Will just have to wait and see how they turn out...
Paul
:o 76.00 bucks seems like alot? wonder what chucks gas pump cost? I don't think chuck mentioned the cost. Craig
Yes, I was a little surprised about the cost. I was thinking in the $40-$50 range. Pricing depends on the space you take up on the printing platform plus the amount of material used. Since these wheels are fairly large parts (compared to some of the things the other guys are doing here), that would explain the higher cost. They are also much more complex objects which resulted in a large complex STL file (60 megs and over 1,000,000 facets). That could have been a contributing factor as well.
Paul
I really look forward to your results.
If anyone is interested, I did a quick check of the Fineline site and using their comparison function, did one of three of their printers, ranging from the top of the line Viper HR...to the upper middle IPRO, and the one used for PAP (INVISION HR).... the page loads slow, but you can see some comparison images from all angles of assorted parts details for the tha same piece made on each machine.
http://www.finelineprototyping.com/intro/compare-technologies.php?technologies%5B%5D=viperhr&technologies%5B%5D=ipro&technologies%5B%5D=invisionhr (http://www.finelineprototyping.com/intro/compare-technologies.php?technologies%5B%5D=viperhr&technologies%5B%5D=ipro&technologies%5B%5D=invisionhr)
Marc
The pump body was around forty bucks. Approx. .625 diameter and 3" long. So far, the pricing still kicks ass over the time of scratchbuilding, plus a superior end result. I could never do the lettering on the gallon indicators I printed.
Chuck, I agree about the time issue....scratch building something i would use PAP to..... if i knew how to do all the computer work....drawing and such >:( Craig
I've made, I think, a prudent tactical change with this. Decided to print just one wheel center the first time out because of concerns I have about concentric accuracy and crispness of the raised lettering. Fortunately I was able to cancel the previous order and add this one to the queue. If necessary I may have to bump up the font size and weight slightly. The cost for the one wheel center is $32, which though pricey enough is better than spending $76 on a test and getting four centers that aren't satisfactory. I added a small center hole to test for concentric accuracy in the lathe. If successful I'll go back to the original plan and print the four centers at one time and use this one as a test piece for machining and painting.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelPAPTest.jpg&hash=f0ccb2ef611e7c8f511dffc7f9bc52976d79831d)
I agree Chuck, compared to the time it would take to machine each of these individually, the price is a bargain. Plus I would have no way to machine the lettering which is an important detail.
Paul
Just for S & G I prepared a cut-away rendering of the wheel assembly, primarily to confirm the proper wheel contours. Even though the prototype wheels were cast as one piece, I'm differentiating between the tire and center as that is how I intend to produce the wheels for the Van: PAP resin center with machined nickel-silver tread.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelCutaway.jpg&hash=9ccda63df2aaec9b3dca337e2b0a488665165ee9)
Paul
Satisfactory. -- Russ
Just received confirmation that the wheel center has been printed and is on the way... should be here by the end of the week... ;D
In the meantime I've been working on the journal box drawings... should have those finished up in the next day or so.
Paul
Received the test wheel center today from the rapid prototyper. Photo below shows the center as it arrived, directly out of the package.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FWheelRaw.jpg&hash=681c11cb52443b7c621f933074e23879fd9cf170)
I tested the concentric accuracy of the wheel in the lathe and found it to be excellent, well within the tolerances needed for the project. I bored the axle hole in the lathe and mounted the wheel temporarily on a piece of scrap brass stock.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FWheelDrilled.jpg&hash=a6e2adf8c2386c27d0c7c51a7e190d4158d8f8af)
To better assess the crispness of the lettering and printing texture, I painted the part with my base Floquil rust mixture. Prior to painting I gave it a gentle soda blast and wash in denatured alcohol to removed any remaining wax from the printing process.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FPaintedWheel.jpg&hash=8d2f6baca342a585b92eb147f69b4b0fdc0c2c9a)
I need to raise the lettering slightly from the surface of the wheel as the baseline edges of the lettering (closest to the hub) are a little too soft. This will help make the lettering more distinct. The texture I find quite acceptable considering this is a 1:12 scale part meant to replicate a cast iron wheel. In any smaller scale I think it would be too coarse. As it is, under normal room illumination, the texture is barely discernible. For reference, the part diameter is just over 1".
Paul
Paul,
as I said elsewhere that is a brilliant result , well done .......... can't really imagine being able to get this quality of finished product without using all the latest techniques that you obviously have mastered.
Man, that looks great!
A successful experiment. -- Russ
Paul,
I agree- a great result. The texture is very close to many of the cast wheels I've seen over the years and will add an extra dimension to the finished model.
James
very good and I admire the ability to produce and present these CAD drawings.
I will have to cheat in this sort of model part production by having all the CAD work done by a friend.
I love these fine results........... but it is outside the modelling where my heart lies. Maybe due to the lack of experience in CAD and the impatience to learn how to draw again ??
Jacq
This is right up there with the stuff on buntbahn!!!!!
Looking really good. Can't wait to see the finished thing now.
Holy crap that thing is beautiful! Looks cast to me. Some may say it is a little coarse in the cast texture, but having it slightly amplified gives it life and a manufacturing origin.
Hurry up and turn the tire man! Please show us how you will be mounting the tread- probably not with a flaming gas-fired ring I would imagine.
John
Thanks for the good words guys. No John, I don't think I'll be using a flaming ring to sweat on the tire, though I'm sure it would be fairly dramatic... ;)
Received a photo today from Mike Decker of a prototype wheel (paint's not original by the way but does show off the texture and lettering quite well). Seeing the original, I'm very pleased with the way the "printed" version turned out.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2F1895D-ER-wheelSm.jpg&hash=c12bc70cec186115a1e5baa8f42f7bbef449cbb7)
Paul
I thought that was your finished wheel at first glance!
Have you considered turning a lip on the front of the wheel tire (tyre) and then press the insert in from the rear. You wouldn't have the join line on the front face then.
d
It looked to me like you had added the texture in the CAD file. Looks great!
Thanks guys... Chuck, the texture you see in the renderings is in the rendering file only, not in the file that was printed.
Dave... I had thought of that idea but, with my present tooling it would complicate the tire machining process considerably. My tooling is set up to turn the tire with the flange side towards the headstock. By boring straight through it is possible to turn the tire with one machine setup. Turning a lip on the front edge would require reversing the stock at some point in the machining process and would potentially introduce concentric inaccuracy between the bore and the tread. It would also be possible to use a formed internal boring bar that could leave a lip on the face edge eliminating the need to reverse the stock, but that introduces its own set of challenges. I don't think, once the wheels are painted that the join line on the face will be too obvious. I've exaggerated the difference in the renderings to illustrate the different parts.
Here is a rendering of the revised wheel. I wasn't entirely happy with the size and positioning of the lettering and seeing the prototype wheel confirmed that it needed more work. I increased the size of the lettering by 2 points and reduced the diameter of the base line by .5" to bring the lettering closer to the hub as on the prototype. I also removed the slight chamfering on the letters to make them a little crisper. The chamfer detail was just below the detail resolution limit of the rapid prototyping process so there is no need to include it. I believe it contributed to the slight "softness" of the lettering in the first test.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelRev.jpg&hash=de03b75ca84f68c342692f53c6048bb216a88d48)
Paul
Paul,
The real wheel exhibits a section which is not on your rendering. Also the writing is shown to be less tapered in section. It is a BIT tapered from top to bottom, but not as much as your rendering and might be the reason for the softness at the bottom edges.
You are, of course, completely bonkers, btw<G>
Martin
Martin:
Yes, I've noticed the contour on the prototype wheel is slightly different than what I've drawn, which is curious since the cross section I used was taken directly from that wheel. At this point it's not something I'm going to worry about, I believe it's close enough for this project.
As far as being completely bonkers, you are absolutely correct and I'm not afraid to admit it... ;D Of course it's a good sort of bonkers, unlike many of the individuals I have the dubious pleasure of working with during my day job... ;)
Paul
Ah!...well, that's odd and somewhere in pootahland, so I'll shut up! I just couldn't help notice the light lines in the rendering were clearly not the "S" shape of the wheel's section, but if it doesn't show up on the final job, fair enough.
Bonkers, of course, is just fine. I doubt if any of us is truly "normal". God forbid!
Martin
Did some more fiddling with the first test wheel center. Decided since the center won't be used in the final model, it would make a good discarded part in the final diorama. So I stripped the original paint, primed it, repainted the base rust coats and weathered it up to look like an old discarded part. Then to photograph it I placed it on an old diorama base to give it some context.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FRustedWheel.jpg&hash=ca6857494e1aa350bfadb778a843452969f49027)
Paul
Paul .. that's very .. very .. nice. Excellent!
Now, that part really looks the part!
Cheers,
Dallas
Paul,
nice paintwork- I like the way the casting marks and date will act as a subtle historical reference next to the finished model. Can I ask if there was a technical issue getting the wheels true and attaching the turned tyre? What will you be using as an alternative on the loco and rolling stock? Or have I missed something in a previous post?
James
That looks like a real wheel...I want to see it with the giant penny! ;D
So what was the issue?...was it in general using PAP for the centers or only this specific one?
Marc
Looks great -- I thought it was a reference photo of the real thing until I read the text.
same here, thought it was full size!
Super job!
Philip
The only real give-away in the whole photo is the texture of the green ground cover -- and you would need a reason to have looked for it in the first place. Most satisfactory. -- Russ
Thanks for the good words guys... much appreciated.
Marc: the problem with this particular center is purely aesthetic, not functional. The lettering is a little too small and set round too large a diameter base line, too far from the hub. The upper surfaces of the letters are also slightly chamfered which contributed to the "soft" resolution. The revised wheel (rendering a few posts below) has larger type, minus the chamfering set in a tighter circle closer to the hub. Doesn't seem like a really big deal, but after going to all this trouble I figured it might as well be right. Next step is to print the four final centers...
James: as this sample center came from PAP, it was very close to concentric and true. I was very pleased with the geometric accuracy. All I had to do was bore out the axle hole in the lathe. I haven't turned the tyre yet. I have some nickel silver bar stock that I had earmarked for this project when I originally started in 1:24. However, since I changed the scale to 1:12, the diameter of that stock is not big enough, so I have to order some larger nickel silver stock for the tyres. Such is life... Although the center is quite light, it is surprisingly robust and structurally sound. I don't foresee any problems using the acrylic center in combination with the metal tyre. I plan to use the same process for the remainder of the rolling stock and loco wheels. Since the loco wheels have external cranks, the acrylic centers should work just fine.
Russ: Yep, figured someone would pick up on that old foam stuff. If I'd taken the trouble to plant some taller weeds in that area it would have been that much more convincing. This diorama base has done a lot of traveling since I did it in the early 90s. It's starting to show its age... I'm actually kind of surprised it has withstood the abuse as well as it has...
Paul
Paul, not that I'm likely to do 1/12th scale ever myself (apart from shiny boats!), I have always wondered how you big scale guys portray foliage and vegetation generally as in that scale the "normal" materials start to look a bit inadequate.
I have a good old mate who is embarking on the scale with some lovely wooden wagons and he wants to make a small "in the shed" layout which will then go outside for a run.
Although he's busy on a Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter for sailing at the moment, like most of us he swaps around as the muse takes him and I know it'll come up in conversation at some point during his regular phone calls.
Martin
Hector:
I haven't crossed that bridge yet, though I am working my way up the embankment so to speak. What I have in the back of my mind is to assemble a tree or two (hardwood, no evergreen) from natural materials, tree branches and so forth. I did this for some 1:48 hardwood trees many years ago to good effect. To that end I've started collecting various material samples from the woods around us looking to come up with just the right combination of form and texture. I "harvested" a trunk full of Manzanita wood and branches a few weeks ago up in the high country and it appears to hold some promise. It has a very fine, thin bark that weathers naturally to a lovely grey, textured appearance that appears satisfactory for 1:12. Its dimensions seem about right, but as I say, I haven't really investigated this in detail yet. As far as leaves, I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, but since that part of the project is some time off, I've got plenty of time to come up with a solution. I may just do a fall scene with few leaves on the tree and most scattered on the ground. The drawback with that approach though is the tree structure has to be both fine and complex... not an easy task. The one thing I'm more concerned about is how I'm going to do the hedge that ran along one side of the right-of-way boundary... that's going to take some more thought and research. The one drawback to this scale is you can't get away with any inaccuracies or impressionistic renderings.
The original plan is to replicate the Belgrave Shed. But, in 1:12, if I do this, the shed itself will be sizable: 39" long, 20" wide and a little over 16" high. I may just decide to do a portion of the shed in a display case type of arrangement... not sure yet. Though as I say, there's still plenty of time to work out those issues.... assuming I live that long... ;-)
Paul
When you get to the top of the embankment - try this site http://www.skullcrafts.com/base_supplies.htm
Interesting site Ian... thanks for the link. Have you used their products or seen them in use? What's your impression?
For a 1:48 diorama I did years ago back east, I chopped up actual fall leaves and scattered them around the base of the tree to good effect. Because they were so small in 1:48, you just assumed they were leaves, an impressionistic approach. However, in 1:12 this won't work. The leaves will have to have a leaf shape and heaven help you if you put maple leaves underneath an oak tree or vice versa. The nitpickers would have a field day... ;D
Paul
Hmmm, nice leaves, but what the hell is skullcrafts on about???? What a weird website. I've never been so far into a site and still not know what the hell the geezer's rabbiting about!!
Basing???? What the hell is Basing!!??
Are all Oregonians that mad?
Martin
Hi Paul. I only sell laser cut leaf materials down to 1:32 scale so don't know if the Skullbase stuff is suitable for your scale. I will be using some of the leaves I source on my 1:24 scale diorama because it still works fine visually. I have access to lasers and can have leaves cut to scale but it gets expensive. I would think a more natural product would work better in 1:12.
Ian:
It's definitely going to take some more research... fortunately I'm nowhere near addressing the issue seriously at this point. I just hope I don't have to be cutting individual leaves by hand. I spent one summer when I was in college working in the properties department of the Shakespearean Festival Theatre in Stratford, my home town. That year, one of the plays being performed was Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard and the properties department was assigned the task of building a full-scale cherry tree. We cut literally thousands of leaves by hand and glued them individually to the branches of the tree that had been assembled from carved foam, covered with glue-soaked tissue paper and painted. It took weeks to make this tree and when finished, the art director for the production decided he didn't want to use it and scrapped the tree. That was the last time I worked in the theatre.
Paul
Small update to the Heywood wheel project. Made a further correction to the raised lettering. The face of the lettering now parallels the contour of the wheel face like the prototype. In previous versions, the face of the lettering was 90° to the axle hole. This is a small change that would only be visible upon close examination in 1:12, but I'm also preparing centers for a client in 1:6, so the correction becomes necessary in the larger scale.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelRevised.jpg&hash=8b679f413873fb71c09574777f3bdf202910e17c)
Further Update: 2/06/11
Each of letters was angled back so that the side faces of the letters are now 90 degrees to the surface of the wheel. Prior to the change, the letter sides were parallel to the axle axis and the resulting angles were a little odd. Setup of lettering shows clearly in closeup below.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froughboy.net%2Fimgs%2FHeywoodBrakeVan%2FHeywoodWheelRevised2.jpg&hash=b44a7163bc6c68c47232b19f585abe719736e80c)
Paul
Paul,
...nice work.
James
You can design all my projects; excellent work. -- Russ
Thanks guys, appreciate it. Whenever you're ready Russ... ;)
Paul
Sweet!
Marc (never heard of WP RAYNER 2011 film ;))
Quote from: marc_reusser on February 11, 2011, 01:18:53 AM
Marc (never heard of WP RAYNER 2011 film ;))
I have it made up special... I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy if you know what I mean... ;D
Paul