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In the 1/35 Auto Repair thread, I mentioned that I had ordered some of these fine needles in hopes that they'd be useful for making tiny holes in which I could insert wire "nails" ... set of those containing 36, 38 and 40 gauge needles arrived today ...
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Used the 40 gauge needle to poke a hole in this piece of 1/32" thick basswood, then simply press-fit a piece of .007" wire ... so, it's working out as hoped! Kinda hard to measure the triangular shape of a tiny flared needle ... but you have to go back about 1/16" from the tip before the size equals the diameter of a #80 bit, so it's pretty dang small. Plan now is to pre-blacken lengths of wire, insert in the holes and cut with enough sticking out to allow easy blackening of the ends, then press in place ... and maybe add a drop of water (or spit! ;)) if needed to snug the nail in place.
They also make these in 42 and 43 gauge sizes ... will order some of those in case I need to do the same with smaller wire (have some .004" steel wire on order).
They're called felting needles and used in a craft called "needle felting" ... apparently best to use a piece of soft material (like some sheet styrofoam) behind the work piece to avoid breaking the needle. They're also called rooting needles by doll-makers who use them to plant realistic hair on doll scalps. "Rooting needle" seems to work better as a search term ... or you can add a number (36, 38, 40, 42, 43) or "set" to "felting needle" to find them that way. (If you just search "felting needle" you get a zillions hits for other supplies used in that craft)
Cheers,
Dallas
These are handy looking. I like them because 1) they come in specific diameters 2) they look really pointy for ease of poking or marking 3) they are probably harder metal so they can stick through many materials.
I'll have to look for some at the local Mikey's. Thanks.
John
Total insanity. I like it. -- Russ
Pretty cool. But I'm holding out for a true, miniature pneumatic nail gun! Gary
Very interesting. I am wondering how they would hold up to carve plaster. I have tried a lot of different steel needles to carve brick patterns into plaster, but most of them have to be reshaped constantly. Still looking for the perfect steel needle, so I think I will give these a try.
Brief update ... I've used the little 40 ga. needle to install over 100 tiny little nails in the battens now. Under "normal" use, they remain nice and rigid ... when heavier pressure is applied, they flex slightly ... and that's actually a good thing (much, much better than what happens when a tiny drill bit "flexes" and snaps). And also working well in that the nails are just press-fit into the snug little holes and then running a touch of wet water over them to swell the wood grain a touch where needed. Very pleased with the results & have some of the smaller 42 ga. ones on order now for use with tinier wire.
Cheers,
Dallas
Quote from: Malachi Constant on August 13, 2010, 05:14:15 PM
Brief update ... I've used the little 40 ga. needle to install over 100 tiny little nails in the battens ........ have some of the smaller 42 ga. ones on order now for use with tinier wire.
Cheers,
Dallas
Errr..."Nut-Job" comes to mind. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Interesting info . Thanks. Will have to see if the local Coleens, Ileeen, Joleens, or whatever that fabric and sewing store is, carries them.
M
Quote from: marc_reusser on August 14, 2010, 03:52:03 AM
Errr..."Nut-Job" comes to mind. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Takes one to know one! ;D Ah-hem .... [clearing throat and hacking up a good one] ... I seem to recall "somebody" making individual nail-heads for some sort of 5x5x7 caboose by cutting individual SLICES of .008" styrene rod:
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=640.msg10011#msg10011
Now, I was happy to let that go as an insane pursuit better left to 'somebody' else ... but when it evolved into inserting the length of styrene rod and cutting it off, well then it seemed like a good time to jump into the pool! Then, of-course, came the need to do even smaller nails and hundreds and hundreds of them ... and ... well, being a Nut-Job can be amusing for a few hours now and then. :P
Speaking of which .... Ngineering sells straightened .004" steel wire for anyone who needs really incredibly fine wire (photo below, I got some in today's mail): http://www.ngineering.com/other_detail_stuff.htm
Bbbbb, that's all folks!
Looney Tunes Dallas
I'll add a photo of the recent insanity ... nearest row shows a bunch of "nails" stuck in a batten using the felting needle to make holes. Fine wire was cut off just above the surface to allow coloring the ends without coloring the siding ... behind that are battens with nails sunk in place.
Cheers,
Dallas
Heavens! We have a Doan emulator in our midst only he's working in a smaller scale!
Despite your need for psychiatric care you have done a rather adequate job and, in a manner of speaking, are to be commended. And then, of course, institutionalized.
You have added a neat trick for the rest of us to copy. Thanks.
Russ
Damn that makes me reach for a hammer to pound those nails in!
But I best keep it away from the possessed Malachi Constant for he may hit his ol' noggin again and reverse the delightful insanity which makes the man do his stuff.
Very impressive Dallas.
John
Dallas:
Been following this thread with some interest as I'm always intrigued about utilizing tools and materials for other disciplines in modelling. Most regulars here know my position of nail heads in models - ok in the larger scales and generally overdone and irritating in the smaller scales - 1:48 and down. However, a few in 1:48 are a nice subtle touch and I'm always looking for a better method of simulating nail heads. I picked up a set of felting needles based on this thread to try out and what I didn't realize was that the needles are barbed. The barbs are actually what make them work for the felting process, pulling fibres up through the material. In testing on wood I found the holes they made to be too coarse and jagged, but I suspect they may be useful for texturing and graining harder, denser woods such as Swiss Pear and Boxwood or even planting weeds and so forth in ground cover - going to experiment with those ideas next.
Returning however to the punching small holes in wood, I'm experimenting with some more sinister implements of destruction. A couple of years ago I purchased a job lot of old dental tools and equipment at a yard sale. The primary items of interest were a large box full of new dental burrs and a small cabinet with built-in compressor, perfect for operating a marker-sized air-powered die grinder. Among the items included in the job lot was a box of root canal reamers :P which are extremely fine stainless steel spiral reamers and very sharp. Based on a few basic tests, they will, with care, pierce a thin-section soft wood such as bass (1" thick in 1:48). I'm working on adding a few nail heads to a 1:48 assembled and finished pilot model and will post some pictures as I refine that process using the reamers.
Paul
Hey Paul --
Those reamers sound painful ... I mean potentially useful!
Wonder if there's a bit of variation in the felting needles. On the various ones that I have, the barbs begin about 1/8" from the tip ... so I'd have to punch thru 4 layers of 1/32" stripwood before I got to one of those ... I'm finding them very useful for STARTING a hole into which I can press a bit of wire.
Second photo at the top of this thread shows a bit of .007" wire into a piece of stripwood that's 1/4" actual or 12" wide in O scale. If you do the math, that makes a nail head that scales to .34" which is a bit on the large size ... mathematically ... but by eye it looks about right (to me) ... not to mention smaller and more appropriately detailed than the holes that folks make with pounce wheels, thumbtacks, etc. If you step down to .005" wire, that scales to a 1/4" nail head in O scale ... which isn't bad for a common nail ... I received some .004" wire which will be handy in some areas, but if that were inserted as a nail I think it might be imperceptible.
Also, NONE of my comments are meant to be "argumentative" ... more along the lines of discussion. Definitely interested in whatever you may find that works for you ... and welcome you to post alternative approaches here.
Meanwhile, I'm sure as heck glad to be done nailing that big dang wall! Lots of other pleasant diversions planned before I do the next one like that. ;D
PS #1: After re-reading your post, there might be an apples/oranges thing here. Sounds like maybe you're punching "nail holes" but not feeding wire into them to make actual nail heads? If that's the case, then the flair of the needle pressed all the way thru may be unappealing.
PS #2: I think there's another interesting potential here ... taking advantage of the jagged barbs on larger sizes felting needles to make rough knot holes in stripwood. This idea was mentioned on another forum ... I did a quickie test and it looks promising that way.
Cheers,
Dallas
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Here's an earlier photo before the smaller nails in the battens were inserted and before the signs were "tinned" (flattened/stiffened) and weathered ... the LADDER was scratchbuilt using "pegged" construction. The rungs are pieces of square stripwood that were whittled to a near-round shape so they could be press-fit into the uprights ("rails" I think). Then the entire thing was stained as an assembly ... the END GRAIN on the rungs naturally soaked up more stain and became darker, which highlighted that detail without any extra effort ... which prompted the thought:
Potential for extremely realistic knots in siding ...
The larger felting needles can be used for making jagged holes in stripwood as Paul noted ... I think there's tremendous potential here as follows:
-- Make a jagged hole ...
-- Whittle a piece of stripwood so it plugs into the hole perpendicular to the surface of the siding ...
-- Insert that for a snug fit, then cut it off flush with the surface of the siding ...
-- Then keep the snug fit or knock it out slightly and stain ...
-- The end grain of the "knot" that's pegged in place will naturally take on more of the stain ...
-- AND it "seems" at this point that it would be extremely realistic, because a knot really is a bit of tight end grain that's perpendicular (or at a sharp angle) to the dominant wood grain ...
Might be damn tricky in O scale and smaller, but think it's do-able in 1:35 and up. (The rungs for the ladder were made by whittling HO scale 4x4, which work out to roughly 1-1/2" diameter in 1:35)
When the time comes, I'll try a few to practice and then put maybe one or two on a whole wall ... one of those things where people's preferences vary widely ... just like the dang nail-head / nail-hole issue ... and I'll have to go back and look at what Chuck and others have done with knots before I get into that ... meanwhile, thought I'd toss out the idea. All ideas / discussion welcome.
Cheers,
Dallas
Most cool Dallas!
FWIW, insofar as whittling round rungs out of square stock...you could probably use a draw plate to shape and size it to the desired dim. (the kind that Micro Mark sels for reducing dowel sizes).
M
As threatened (and with apologies to Dallas for jumping in on his thread), I did some testing this weekend with the felting needle (bottom) and dental reamer (top) making nail holes in wood. The photo below shows both implements of destruction. The barbs are readily apparent on the felting needle and you can see the fine spiral cutting surface of the dental reamer. The dental reamer is much smaller in dia. than the needle which is also polygonal in cross section.
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Both tools will readily punch a hole in thin scale lumber. The felting needle cuts a diamond shaped hole while the reamer hole is round. The photo below shows a piece of basswood on top, a piece of Swiss Pear below. Both are sharp enough to cut through the Pear which is much harder and more dense than the bass. The reamer produces a much neater hole, while the felting needle could be useful for making knot holes and other texturing operations, at least in 1:48.
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Below are the same pieces of wood after some quick weathering. Here you can see how effective the felting needle is a replicating a Knot hole, especially in the Swiss Pear. The reamer makes quite an effective looking nail hole.
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This last was a test on another piece of Pear adding a nail to one of the nail holes. The hole on the right has a tiny wire nail in place, the head colored with some Neo Lube. Very tedious bit of work this and not something you'd want to do throughout a model, but could be effective in moderate use.
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Paul
Paul --
Notes & photos much appreciated and definitely welcome here. That dental reamer looks superb for tiny stuff.
Cheers,
Dallas
That was a very worthwhile post. Thanks, Paul. -- Russ
Very useful post!
I work in iron and rivets, you guys have mastered wood and knots and nails. I love to read these forums threads just to see how far y'all take things. Nice work.
There is so much win in this forum it makes me giddy. More bourbon!
John
Now I know how I am going to install the nail to hold your coat on the back side of the outhouse door in 1:48.
Thanks.