Diorama orientation/layout

Belg · November 26, 2009, 06:05:38 AM

Guys, I posted to the CSS post a request to have this diorama I'm working on be analyzed for layout and for build content. I plan on adding a boat under repair in the slipway and detail the docks and shoreline. This is being build to add to a layout so the orientation will be skewed with the smaller building up front. This is just the beginning and would love to hear real constructive critiques. Since it was not really part of CSS I've started a new thread to better allow me to monitor "my" work. Thanks for any input, Pat.

jacq01 · November 26, 2009, 06:44:57 AM

Pat,

do you have an overall plan of the layout, you like to incorporate this in ?
Based on your question in Jacq's logging project I put an answer there.

If you have a sketch of the TOTAL visible area around this diorama, please post it so I can give you some advise.

Jacq

Belg · November 26, 2009, 07:16:27 AM

Jacq, here is the plan of the layout that my friend Peter drew and we hashed out for quite a few months. Shelbys will go where it says dock with fishing industry on the right hand side. Pat

jacq01 · November 26, 2009, 08:12:25 AM

Pat,

what is the scale of the plan and what are the dimensions of the room. Or what is the size of the squares in the plan ?
I like to get an idea of how close together your different "scenes" are. What scale are models and trains H0 or O scale ?

Jacq

Belg · November 26, 2009, 09:51:55 AM

Jacq, here is a floorplan of the room and I model in HO. Pat

jacq01 · November 28, 2009, 07:29:13 AM

Pat,

I make a sketch with some alternative positions of the area where you plan to put the wharf.
When ready sometime next week I'll post them. Need time to prepare for a dutch tradition "Sinterklaas".
All kids and partners still participate so it will be a lot of fun. One of the traditions is to draw a name and make a surprise present with rhyme
poking fun of the person. It has to be done within a fixed budget. It is also the traditional presents evening instead of Christmas.

Jacq

Belg · November 28, 2009, 09:06:57 AM

Jacq, look forward to the sketch.

It is true that we used to open our present on Christmas eve, and as long as you were good Zwarte Pete did not put you in his sack. As long as you did not get coal for a present you were lucky. Thanks for the flashback, Pat

marc_reusser · November 28, 2009, 02:05:56 PM

Pat,

Looks like it will be a nice layout...I like that you have a good amount of "open space" (no structures) gives the sense of greater distance. I will take a closer look at the part that you requested...but I do have one comment right off the bat....this is something that I see on many logging oriented layouts, and it really annoys me.......an those are tunnels.....VERY few if only and handful of logging operations ever had tunnels...so they really do not make any sense to me on a logging layout. I understand the ones you have in the corners, as they are for practical purposes, ....but the one by th e trestle bothers me.....if you are using it as a scene seperator, I would say maybe consider just doing much denser forest on that mountainside, with tree canopy/limbs overhanging the right-of-way...this will give the "sense" of a seperation (tunnel) yet have that look of heavy old growth forest......much more realistic than a tunnel.

I am also not quite sure how that whole tunnel and log pond issue will look/resolve itself...they seem to be two contradictory items. I would maybe consider some way of bringing the log pond and mill forward...so the pond hits the edge (like in Jacqs scene)...and figure out another way with the track loop.

Marc

finescalerr · November 29, 2009, 01:33:57 AM

Marc makes an excellent point and it deals with one of my pet peeves: I HATE the mindless use of tunnels as scene dividers, to hide return loops, as an ubiquitous scenic element that has no apparent reason for existing, and for any reason other than to get through a rock or mountain that must be there. Every idiotic layout I see in Model Railroader or MRC has an unnecessary tunnel or two. Every idiot uses a tunnel to hide his "staging yard". (Let's use the real, unpretentious, term: storage tracks.) Is it never possible to hide those tracks behind a hill or a dense stand of trees or even some structures?

Tunnels can be interesting, even dramatic, scenic elements. I wish more hobbyists would use them with intelligence and good taste.

Russ

jacq01 · December 01, 2009, 03:43:10 AM

The points Marc and Russ brought up, are points that are bothering me too. Even to such an extend that I am working on alternatives, including a good place for the wharf, keeping the character of the layout intact.

Jacq

marc_reusser · December 01, 2009, 03:53:26 AM

Pat,

Are you set on using these two structures?....The green one works fine for me...but the white one is incongruous with it...I know that buildings come in all sizes and shapes but....

It looks somewhat cartoonish/invented...no real sense of purpose or proportion.
It seems too small, and out of scale visually with the other.
It seems just a bit too far away, and disconnected from the scene.

I definitely think that the white structure should be bigger...in size and I sort of wish (at least would be curious to see) that one of the buildings had a roof line/gable that extended sideways as well.....a wing so to speak(or maybe the main body) maybe towards the adjacent building...maybe closed in above and open-air workspace below..., to help lead the eye/tie the structures together, and create a visual stop of sorts...so the eye lingers in the scene rather than looking/funneling through it.

Just some random thoughts......not sure if they are the solution...but something about that white structure in the scene bugs me...sorry $:-\$

MR

DaKra · December 01, 2009, 07:21:23 AM

I agree with Marc about the white building. Something about it just isn't working. It might look more appropriate in a densely built up harbor with little room to spread out, but a second story on top of a shack, with its own exterior staircase, doesn't look right in this environment. I think its guilty of trying too hard to be something other than a shed, when a simple shed might be more appropriate.

Dave

Belg · December 01, 2009, 04:19:15 PM

Men, thanks alot for the input. As for the tunnels I have not started this layout yet so maybe some fine tuning is still to come. Perhaps when Jacq sends me his drawing he might have a work around for the mill section. Hint hint??

Now for the structures I'm going to make some diagrams with dimensions, as I believe it may be my pics that is giving the impression of the size discrepancy. Here is my thinking of the two different structures, the green is large because it needs to be able to fit a ship inside to work on them. The white/gray structure is a small fish, bait and tackle shop with the second floor being the residence of the proprietor. This area will get build out with details and a sign facing the "ocean" and a free standing one on the road. Lobster traps on the dock, a ship tied up at the dock.... Don't you think all these things will increase the feel/size of the overall appearance?

I would like to hear more about the thinking as in regard to the build out to the side. I was wondering about perhaps make a corrugated roof over the hoist section of the green structure, but I thought it would block the scene not lead as you guys seem to feel??? With the roof scenario in place, the boat I have planned will then be on its way up the slipway and not in it yet?? Look forward to the replies, Pat

marc_reusser · December 01, 2009, 06:17:07 PM

Pat,

Don't roof the hoist...it adds caharacter and diversity and visual interet the way it is.

IMO None of the things you suggested help the white building......raze it and use a new one. The whole cutsie baitshop thing just scares me more. The scene lacks a defined focus. I think you should select a real theme for this scene......"Boat works/Industrial fishing".....not boatworks/cutesie weekend-fisherman-FSM-inspired. Look at the more masculine/brutish/functional appearance of the green structure.....the other one should have the same feel/character. (maybe even a third that is related to canning, ice, net repair, or ither undefined adjunct to the industry). Tell one story with this area of the dio..."commercial fishing and it's associated industry"......leave the cute shit to those modeling New England tourist trap wharves. Looking at this scene, and the time period you are doing I see very little reason that this bait shop would exist at this location.....a small shack with a fold up opening at the front possibly, for the weekend dork that got lost or thought the boatyard was a good place to fish from...but beyond that, it just doesn't work for me.

MR

marc_reusser · December 01, 2009, 07:19:21 PM

Pat,

Another thing got me thinking....

I do think you should have some additional small structures in the scene...to sort of crowd the the larger ones....then I realized something else that I think is not helping your scen...the piers/docks, their shape and the height of them, and the building locations above the "water" why are both docks these snubbed flat ones...why cant one be the snub one, and the other be a long narrow one that extends way out into the water? maybe even with a structure on it or near the end? And why are both buildings and docks at exactly the same height?...a building could be right down at the water line, or be nothing more than an open shed, or it could sit sideways to the water, or askew.......

Look at the images below.....not perfect examples, some are better than others, and a few far to decrepit or modern, for what I am getting at...but by looking at all of them and taking it as a whole, maybe you will better see what I am geting at in terms of these above items, and the general feel/mood of stuff.

MR

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Diorama orientation/layout

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