Westlake Publishing Forums

Great info!
I read every Timber Times and never came across a "fire train"
Thanks for posting.

Marty J we should talk!
Since we share initials and hobbies.

MJinTN

Quote from: Chuck Doan on June 21, 2025, 04:18:40 PMThanks very much! No new projects yet, just waiting for inspiration.

Did you get inspired yet??? 

Jerry

Interesting project. Do you plan on making it operational for outside?
Small instrumentation pumps would fit in large scale cars.
Regards
Marty J (the other Marty)

Well I guess we can call this chapter 3.

Very soon what we now think of as a fire train was born, tank cars feeding water to car top mounted water cannons with greater range and almost unlimited water supply.
Perhaps the most famous "fire train," and most photographed, was put into operation by the Red River Lumber Company of Westwood, California in the mid 1920's.
The Red River Company was a leading innovator in the logging and lumbering industry; being among the first to introduce Cat tractor logging and making major improvements to the machines, The use and development of the tracked logging arch was another of their firsts. Electric powered donkeys, chain saws and locomotives in the woods was researched and developed, refrigerator cars for transport and storage of foods at the outlaying camps were just a few of their ideas put into practice.

With this kind of innovative spirit it is no wonder that they developed such an effective system to fight wild fires. I will quote the development of this train from Robert Hanft's book, "Red River, Paul Bunyan's Own Lumber Company and It's Railroads."

"A May 1924 fire hastened creation of a Red River fire fighting innovation. Around noon on the 26th a fire started in slashing between the location of Camp 34 and 36. The Camp 34 men stopped regular work immediately and hastened to the fire front. Theodore Walker (member of the owning family) and Walter Luff loaded a steam powered fire truck onto a railroad flat car, hooked on four tank cars full of water, and hurried to the fire front with their special train, extra men and tools. By midnight the fire was under control, having been confined to about 40 acres of cut over land. After the weary men had returned to their beds, Theodore Walker turned his attention to devising a more efficient fire control system, and came up with Red River's justly famed fire train.
Heart of the fire train was a box car converted to a pump unit. It was equipped with two high pressure monitor nozzles on the roof, mounted close to the edge to enable nearly vertical flooding. A metallic hose was carried coiled on the roof and could be coupled to the steam dome on any Red River locomotive, which furnished the power supply. Inside the asbestos covered car a 150 horsepower steam engine drove a centrifugal pump. Water supply was assured by a tank car of 10,000 gallons capacity adjacent to each end of the pump car, kept filled and coupled on. Suction to the pump was via a line from the bottom of the tankers, but hose connections were provided to take water from the dome of any other tank car. Axes, shovels, saws and other tools were carried, together with more than a thousand feet of hose to reach well beyond the train itself or the range of it's monitors."

[attach
This next picture is tagged on at the end, for some reason it didn't want to play by the rules.
Photos from Robert Hanft's book Red River

"The fire train could serve anywhere Red River rails reached and in addition was loaned to the call of other fire crews along the tracks of the Southern Pacific, or that of other nearby logging concerns. It served so well that another similar unit was constructed at a later date. The steam pump Was eventually replaced by one powered with a gasoline engine, eliminating the need for cumbersome hook up or requiring the locomotive to remain with the fire car at all times."


Picture and caption from the book "The Modoc, Southern Pacific's back door to Oregon" By Tom Dill and Jack Bowden


The second generation fire fighting car.

Photo from Robert Hanft's book Red River

Thanks for taking a look.
More to come.

Nice to see you checking in, too, Chuck. -- Russ

Welcome back Marty!

Well this is going over really well But I committed to it so will continue.

Let's call this chapter 2

Tim Purdy in his book Fruit Growers Supply Company talks about the danger and destruction of fire in the woods and ways that were used to fight and prevent fires.

"On Monday July 28, 1924, the worst forest fire in the history of the Lassen Operation erupted, this one caused by sparks from a steam donkey operating between Camps D and F. With the extremely dry conditions and winds fanning the flames, it quickly burned out of control. In less than an hour the blaze turned into a firestorm, spreading over four miles and destroying three steam donkey engines, eight railroad flat cars, one water tank car and about three miles of railroad track.
Initially 575 men fought the blaze. Red River Lumber sent 110 men to assist. A crew from the Lassen Lumber and Box arrived later, delayed by another fire south of Susanville,
Camp D narrowly escaped destruction, saved only by men on each cabin rooftop extinguishing the burning embers as they landed. Luckily, despite the intensity of the fire, there were no major injuries. But before it was over, 7000 acres of Antelope Mountain had burned. Fruit Growers pocket book was hard hit. Suppressing the fire cost $34,378.20."

"It was then that Fruit growers abandoned the standard method of fire prevention, piling and burning brush and slash after the logs were removed. They adopted a new method, building a series of fire lanes. The fire lanes were 100 feet wide and completely void of vegetation, each encircling 100 acre sections of timber. They were formed by a special V-drag hooked to a 60 Caterpillar tractor which could clear up to six miles of fire lanes a day. The lanes not only served as firebreaks, they also provided quick access. Now, 70 years later, the early firebreaks are still visible although the practice was abandoned in the 1940's.
After each 100 acre area was logged, all the dead trees, or snags were felled, because if left standing, they posed a fire hazard. Once the snags were felled, however, they again became potential fuel, this time on the forest floor. After the first substantial snowfall, the fire crew burned the snags.
During the fire season two crews of eight to ten men worked as fire prevention teams. It was their job to build fire lines, oversee brush and slash piling, remove dead snags and maintain telephone lines. After this 1924 fire Fruit Growers established and maintained a fire lookout on Antelope Mountain."


Photo from Tim Purdy's book Fruit Growers Supply Co.

By the end of 1932, the 178 miles of fire lanes constructed over 26,000 acres had proved very effective. Even though three of the six years it took to build them were critical fire years, only 53 acres burned. From 1925 to 1940 prevention cost $40,373.54, fire fighting costs only $7,546.65."

Another result of this 1924 fire was a law suit brought against Fruit Growers for damages to the National Forest. As a result Fruit Growers established a tree nursery next to the mill in Susanville and agreed to plant 20,000 acres of seedlings on National Forest land. This fire also accelerated the conversion to tractor logging getting the steam donkeys out of the woods further reducing future fire hazards.

End of chapter two, more to come.

Quote from: TRAINS1941 on November 18, 2025, 07:21:43 PMGlad you got the dust off some of the models you were working on!!

Jerry

  Well said , That Man. Now maybe it is your turn to do some dusting !


   Nick

Glad you got the dust off some of the models you were working on!!

Jerry

Well the above posting was so successful I think I will ho-hum you a little more

A modeling project that has been on the back burner for several years is the development of a Fire Train for the South Fork Timber Co.

What is a fire train? Glad you asked.
What follows is a brief history of fire in the logging woods and what the logging companies did about it.

FIRE TRAINS

Fire was always a huge problem for the logging and lumbering companies in the arid Pine forests of California and Oregon. A forest fire was almost inevitable during the Summer months in any logging operation from the 1880's to the 1950's in these dry mountains. Forest fire in the West is still a major problem and concern, the difference between then and now is, that back then, logging crews were in the woods with man power and equipment ready and willing to attack any fire outbreak. Granted a great majority of the fires were started by the logging and railroad equipment no matter how careful the crews tried to be. The fact is they were already on the ground and could usually control any fire outbreak before it could become what we know now days as a conflagration, consuming hundreds of thousands of acres.



Photo from Tim Purdy's book Fruit Growers Supply Company


I suppose I must, at this time, insert a disclaimer.
This is not about politics or governmental policies, just history, so please don't take it there, thank you.

By the early 1920's many large logging/lumbering companies in Northern California and Southern Oregon had huge financial investments in timber land as well as mills, railroads, and crews to harvest, process and sell these trees converted to lumber to build this nation. Fire was the last thing in the world they wanted to see happen, the loss of timber, the cost of man power to fight any fires and the cost of equipment to do so was a huge drain on their profits and after all that's what they were there for, profit.

But fire happened and better ways to fight and control the outbreaks were needed. Many of the larger companies set up special crews and equipment and conducted training of their logging crews so they could be better prepared to handle the fires. Some starting with just ground crews using shovels and saws to get a jump on the flames. Some started transporting fire trucks on flat cars to be brought into the fire areas and help control the flames. Of course equipment and techniques advanced, loggers being the innovative men they were, came up with bigger and better ideas.

There is no way of knowing where and when the first official "fire train" was put into operation and we must also consider what was a "fire train". Some say it was fire fighting pumper trucks loaded on flat cars and pushed into the woods by a locomotive to the location of the fire, a good thought but realize they had very limited ability. Their biggest problem was the small amount of water they were able to carry and the range of their effectiveness. Others say it was the steam pump mounted on the pilot of a locomotive pumping water from the tender out a high pressure hose to douse fires, we can see how this would be self defeating.




Both photos from the book Pino Grande by R.S. Polkinghorn


End of chapter one, more to come.