I have a problem with oil paints clumping up and not really working as well as they should in washes. Instead of a nice shading effect, they sometimes create speckles. Does anyone have any recommendations for brands/types of thinner/oil paints? Any favorite methods for oil washes?
Part of the problem is the pigments sink to the bottom and clump together. So I ran a quick test of my soot colored oil paints to see how well they stayed in suspension in the odorless mineral spirits. Windsor & Newton Payne's Grey had the finest pigment, and did not clump. Its a little blue-ish (photo exaggerates) but tones down nicely with a speck of burnt umber.
I prefer Testor's Flat Enamels for all my washes.
Darryl Huffman
darrylhuffman@yahoo.com
Quote from: DaKra on October 16, 2010, 03:11:54 PM
I have a problem with oil paints clumping up and not really working as well as they should in washes. Instead of a nice shading effect, they sometimes create speckles. Does anyone have any recommendations for brands/types of thinner/oil paints? Any favorite methods for oil washes?
Have you tried turpentine?
A bit smelly, but it is the correct thinner for oil paints.
Regards, Haavard
Winton is Winsor & Newton's budget (relatively) range of oil colours. They're more variable in quality than the "artists" range and tend to have coarser pigments, contain more filler, etc. FWIW I was quite impressed by the quality of the Mig oils and on a dollar per millilitre basis they work out surprisingly price competitive with the better quality ranges of artists oils.
Le Franc & Bourgeois www.lefranc-bourgeois.com gives excellent results with the burnt umber ::)and can be used with paint thinner. Other colors should give similar results.
Anders.........first post! ;D
Welcome aboard, Anders!
Welcome to the forum Anders. Have seen some of your work on other forums and am glad you joined this motley crew.
Paul
Welcome aboard, Anders. Your modelling is wonderful and is on a par with all the beautiful models on this forum.
Dave, my friend Daniel Houël, who is not only a fine train modeller but also an accomplished figure painter uses Winsor & Newton for this work, and says this is his favorite brand.
Thanks everyone for welcoming me aboard. Forgot one detail in my first post.......select colors from their FINE range the regular range would most likely create the problems we are trying to avoid.
Anders
Hi All,
just thought I'd put in my two pennies worth...
anyone wanting to learn more about pigments and carriers would be well advised to pick up a copy of 'The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques' by Ralph Mayer which contains a mass of information about how paint is made and why some pigment combinations work and others don't. Also has Lightfastness ratings, Chemical formulae, Pigment density, Oil absorbtion rates, Oil film characteristics (drying times) Vehicle compatibility compatibility issues and preparation notes for all of the pigments. Admittedly I am an (almost) full time artist but this tome rarely makes it back to my bookshelf.
If I get chance I'll take some photo's of all the oil paint brands I have here (around 10) in washes of the main modelling colours- blacks, umbers and siennas but all of my paintings are done using Winsor and Newton Artists Oils. Not going to get too 'tech-y' but the balance of oil to pigment and pigment purity and grain size is pretty critical and alters depending upon the properties of the pigment. Much more effort goes into the balance and consistency of product with artists grade paints which will never have anything but pigment and oil- roughly 50/50. Cheaper paints will more likely be something like 30% pigment, 10% alumina hydrate, 60% oil or the horrid 'student grade' paints which are often 10% pigment, 20% aluminium stearate and 70% oil.
It is the reaction of fillers with the solvent and excess oil that causes the 'gloopiness' experienced here- the fillers and oil are coating the pigment and stopping it from spreading evenly through the wash. White Spirit (US- mineral spirits) should work ok but there are differences in quality there too.You really do get what you pay for and washes are stretching the paint to their limit so get your hands on some artist's quality paint.
Another tip even with artists quality paint is to remove some of the oil by sueezeing the paint onto some cardboard prior to using it for washes or figure painting- it is the pigment you want and in such thin coats less oil is needed to dry the paint than in traditional oil painting layers.
James
ps. Hey! Anders... welcome!
Your input is certainly worth more than two pennies James... thanks for the informative post and the book reference. Fortunately my local library has a copy in its collection. I haven't used oils in years, primarily because of past experience with inferior products. One day I'm going to have to give them another go...
As a matter of curiosity, have you ever done any work with egg tempera?
Paul
Paul,
I have had one go with egg tempera following one of my trips to Italy back in 1987! It is a very, very tricky process requiring multiple translucent layers in order to build the body of colour over underpainting- obviously this is after separating and cleaning your egg yolks to mix with your pigments- an art in itself. That first experience, while not a complete disaster, was enough to make me realize that my efforts were best concentrated on oil painting- a surprisingly good decision considering I was only 14 at the time!
Actually last year I was given 4 gesso prepared panels by an artist friend which did make me think it might be worth another experiment with egg tempera but I will need to schedule quite a lengthy time for the experiment and it is unlikely to be possible in the next 6 months mainly due to family responsibilities.
You've got me thinking that a small scale experiment, maybe over a white primer on a figure may be interesting...
I wonder if anyone else here has tried egg tempera painting?
James
James ,
Years ago I bought a Daler-Rowney 6 colour egg tempera starter set ( it cost about £30), had a bit of a go with it and promptly put it into a drawer , where it has remained until a few minutes ago . I guess I ought to have another go with it . Some time . I originally bought it because of Lane Stewart's Gazette article of many years ago , but I'm sure there are other materials that do the job just as well .
Nick
Years ago there was a article in the Narrow Gauge Gazette on useing Egg Tempera paint .....for weathering? cant remember what year Gazette?...... Craig H .....aka......Mobilgas
Probably the early '90s. The Gazette really hasn't had much good information or inspirational work since then. (That is not to dismiss the good stuff that has appeared; it's just that such articles are few and far between. And getting fewer.) -- Russ
James:
I've always been really fascinated with the egg tempera process though have never tried it. If I remember correctly, the American painter Andrew Wyeth was a master with the medium.
Paul
I have tried egg tempra, and though it can yield some nice effects, the fact that it continues to "re-activate" when worked over (even with oils)...has proven to be a greater annoyance than any possible results are worth.
Insofar as the original post issue, it really could be the paint you are using (could be inferior quality, or old) or it could be the thinner you are using...i have found that some thinners (turps)...especially the "odorless" variety are less agressive and seem to not dilute the oil paints as well as regular turps or white spirits.
A bit OT, but since it relates to oils and washes, one trick that comes in handy is when doing washes and filters, is to place a dab of the color(s) to be used on a piece of chip-board (the board on the back of writing pads) or strathmore, and allow some of the Linseed oil to wick out of the paint and into the board...then use the dab of paint to create your washes/filters. The removal of some of the Linseed oil will help eliminate some to most of the sheen that often occurs with oils.
I also have to agree with Kevin, that the MIG oils seem to be superior to any of the artists oils brands I have (and I have quite a number)....their pigment seems to be very fine, they mix/thin very well, and they dry quite matte....at least that's my experience.
Marc
Marc, I was told buy the guys a Michigan Toy Soldier to buy the Mig 502 oils said there good quality for the price... so i got some haven't used them yet.... just bought the basic colors browns- black-white- flesh-rust colors. want to get more colors as money permits. Craig H
Craig,
I think you will be quite happy with them. Mo offense to Mich.Toy Soldier (I like their stuff and often unique selection)....but you can by MIG stuff directly from MIG USA (located in Portland, OR.).. just saying it because prices mught be a bit less, and the stock/selection might be better.
http://migproductions-usa.com/ (http://migproductions-usa.com/)
Marc
Big thumbs up to Mig oils and pre mixed oil washes! Got a box of goodies a few days ago, been experimenting with it, works as advertised. All sorts of interesting effects possible. I'm very happy with these, as they are priced about the same as art store oils & thinners, but work better as washes and the colors are pre mixed for weathering.
This 1/160 scale leaning barn is base coated in craft store acrylic, then washed in various Mig oils to highlight the stones and individual planks. All the weathering and rusting effects on the roof is Mig oil. Seriously, the weathering effects here took a total of no more than 10 mins of work, not counting drying time. Stuff works great!!
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2Froof.jpg&hash=11d77ef88b304662aa49a790eda13f6d2e9d0faa)
Thanks for the recommendations!
Dave
Here is a scale wood grain effect I got by brushing streaks of thinned out Mig shadow brown over craft store acrylic brown. The material is scribed cardstock.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi655.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu276%2FDaveKrakow%2Fwoodgrain.jpg&hash=f1f2c28c10472a09562c5cef39b8ff6ab3d08176)
These Mig paints flow like watercolors when thinned with the Mig thinner. My other oils do not behave this way, they clump.
You probably could pass that off as wood and nobody would bat an eye. -- Russ
Quote from: DaKra on August 23, 2011, 12:06:19 PM
These Mig paints flow like watercolors when thinned with the Mig thinner. My other oils do not behave this way, they clump.
Have stayed away from "pre-mixed" washes and such ... but will have to give these a try now ... thanks for the reports WITH photos! (Neat stuff)
-- Dallas
Yeah Dallas, I resisted buying them too, pre-mixed anything seems like admitting failure. ;D But there really is no good reason not to capitalize on the R&D behind these products, they are first rate and the price is fair. Heck, the price is cheap.
Russ, yeah it really does look like wood, especially in person, because I've gone over it with a scratch brush so it has a very fine texture which didnt show in the photo. The nice thing about painting card to look like wood, instead of using real wood, is the grain is not 87x too big. Also better control of color. A&I stained wood looks pretty good but it gets monotonous in miniature, real weathered wood in real world is a range of colors.
Dave
If I remember to do it, I'll shoot a macro photo of cardstock I ran through my photo printer. It may be instructive for all of us, especially me, to compare the results of that kind of "painted" wood card with real stains and pigments on card. (I already know what will look better; it's just how much better ....) -- Russ
Craig, the article you're looking for in the Gazette was published in May 1993, page 83.
Hi Dave,
I finally got a chance to stop by. Your "experiments" look great - glad that you're enjoying the products. I'm always around to give a hand or answer questions if you need.
Hey Marc...thanks for the mention.
Take care,
Rick