Swimming against the tide, maybe, but my current project is a warehouse/aerial tram terminal in H0.
Here is a picture of the prototype:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexport_w.jpg&hash=97bd274ab945e9ac1947640e97867802f863977d)
The lasercut plywood substructure:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fprovebygg.jpg&hash=353c4447acff217f128d8b89dae8d84c257164ad)
The plywood was painted black before the panelling began.
Panelled wall:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fvegg_under_arbeid_w_01.jpg&hash=7ea859f131feb4fab17713b76ac11362d1fc379e)
A little more information on the windows.
I am a great fan of etching because of the relative strength of the parts, high precision and the way it is possible to make a lot of identical parts in a short time.
So I chose to etch the mullions in 0,2 mm nickel silver.
The framing was lasercut.
A great feature of the photoetched mullions was the possiblility of adding fold-up tabs for guiding the window frames and for positioning the finished windows in the wall openings.
As I was quite disappointed wth lasercut framing (grain in the wrong direction), I chose to subtitute it with 1X4 stripwood. Without the tabs the gluing of the stripwood framing would have been a nightmare. With the tabs, it was merely a timeconsuming task.
Here is a lineup of etched mullions, lasercut framing and windows in different phases of construction:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fvinduer_w.jpg&hash=31a8a734296705cd54e7ba79f5f583ea8bb1ec9b)
Closeup of some finished windows. I think you can see why I wanted to substitute the lasercut framing for stripwood!
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fvinduer2_w.jpg&hash=126fe947abc01df79c4963a10547710e0c5630fa)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fvinduer5.jpg&hash=9b33123430902dbe5db61ff6c826a9f1e2769fe8)
With stripwood framing. An improvement worth the extra effort, at least in my book!
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fvindu_08.jpg&hash=0e85f3a870eb4553199350d6fe50eadb81b35897)
Fat thumb included to indicate scale:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fvindu_06.jpg&hash=bfbc872949e60e1077ebe4ff3e2bec1299732d3b)
The walls are colored with Conte crayons ground to powder. Sprinkled on, and brushed into the wood with a stiff paint brush. Sign was sprayed on using a CNC-cutter.
The result is by no means Chuck n` Anders , but it took less than 15 minutes to finish this wall (not counting the letteering).
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexpo_05w.jpg&hash=ac982d46b933c5e9fd01edef76d661fb4ff66ffa)
The building is for a large layout, so I am trying to find a balance between time and quality that makes sense in this context.
Regards, Hauk
That looks great.
Am I seeing it correctly..the mullions are 2 layer etched so that it looks like the profile and not just flat? Great detail.
Really like the window construction. I may steal that!
Paul
Your improvements take it from a "kit" to a model!
Hard to tell it is HO!
-Marty
Quote from: SandiaPaul on August 24, 2012, 03:40:40 AM
That looks great.
Am I seeing it correctly..the mullions are 2 layer etched so that it looks like the profile and not just flat? Great detail.
Really like the window construction. I may steal that!
Paul
Yes, they are two layer etched. Normally you would try to sand/file the cusp down, But in this case I agree that it looks better with the cusp. And sanding down all the mullions would have been just plain nuts!
The "tent effect" as it also is called seems to be a bit more prominent on the etchings by PPD in Scotland compared to the work I have seen by Chempix.
Happy to hear that you might find the design useful for your own pojects. Thats the whole pointof putting ideas into the public domain!
Saw this on the Swedish Narrow Gauge forum awhile ago - awesome work by Mr.Hauk as usual!
Anders
Quote from: Junior on August 24, 2012, 06:57:46 AM
Saw this on the Swedish Narrow Gauge forum awhile ago - awesome work by Mr.Hauk as usual!
Anders
Thanks!
If anybody is interested in taking a closer look on how the windows are constructed, here is the artwork for the etchings:
http://www.folk-rovere.org/mj/bilder/window_front.pdf (http://www.folk-rovere.org/mj/bilder/window_front.pdf)
http://www.folk-rovere.org/mj/bilder/window_back.pdf (http://www.folk-rovere.org/mj/bilder/window_back.pdf)
Regards, Hauk
Hauk,
Thanks for putting up the art...I have a few projects I'd like to do with etching...but after reading all the guidelines on a couple different sites I'm left a bit confused!
To go back to the mullions, so the molding effect I mentioned, can you point out the "tent effect? I know what it is but I'm not sure exactly what I am looking for or at!
Thanks,
Paul
Nothing to criticize. Satisfactory. -- Russ
Quote from: SandiaPaul on August 24, 2012, 08:19:36 AM
Hauk,
Thanks for putting up the art...I have a few projects I'd like to do with etching...but after reading all the guidelines on a couple different sites I'm left a bit confused!
To go back to the mullions, so the molding effect I mentioned, can you point out the "tent effect? I know what it is but I'm not sure exactly what I am looking for or at!
Thanks,
Paul
In this picture you can see the effect:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmjwiki.no%2Fw%2Fimages%2FTelteffekt.jpg&hash=be547601ad15c883af30b514d10d29b4690a4f21)
This effect is mainly a problem, I can see very few situations were it is an asset.
I think one of the things that separate good modellers from average ones is the willingness to spend the time and effort to remove these cusps. A good designer of etchings does also take this effect into account when preparing the artwork.
Regard, Hauk
I don't really see a problem with the "tenting" in HO. In the photos where you are comparing the laser cut window frames to the built up ones, it appears to me that he windows appeared to have been recently re-glazed.
Quote from: Lawton Maner on August 24, 2012, 07:49:38 PM
I don't really see a problem with the "tenting" in HO. In the photos where you are comparing the laser cut window frames to the built up ones, it appears to me that he windows appeared to have been recently re-glazed.
I agree that in this particular case, the tenting is not a problem.
But were the etched part represents a metal plate with the edge exposed, the tenting is a problem even in H0.
Regards, Hauk
Good stuff Hauk
Its nice to see someone consider the thickness of an etch. Theres a lot of people on other forums that think etched = better but not always so. Some window frames are quite chunky bits of timber.
Whats an arial tram? Is that the same thing as a cable car?
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: jim s-w on August 25, 2012, 10:22:41 AM
Good stuff Hauk
Its nice to se someone consider th thickness of an etch. Theres a lot of people on other forums that think etched = better but not always so. Some windpw frames are quite chunky bits of timber.
Whats an arial tram? Is that the same thing as a cable car?
Cheers
Jim
That should of course read "Aerial tram". And yes, it is the same as a cable car.
The one that terminated at my building is very similiar to the one in the enclosed picture.
Regards, Hauk
Hauk,
a very exciting project! I will be watching this closely and I can't wait until you get to the actual aerial tram. Having seen your excellent work, can I assume that you will build this from brass?
In particular the wheels at end station would be make for an amazing model.
Christian
Quote from: BKLN on August 27, 2012, 11:17:00 AM
Hauk,
a very exciting project! I will be watching this closely and I can't wait until you get to the actual aerial tram. Having seen your excellent work, can I assume that you will build this from brass?
In particular the wheels at end station would be make for an amazing model.
Christian
Sorry to disappoint you, but the tram machinery will be hidden deep inside the building. And the other end of the line is on the other side of the mountain...
Just a very short stretch of the tram will be modelled, maybe 3-4 buckets. A return wheel will be hidden behind some trees just a couple of feet from the building. J
And the point is also to make a relatively simple model, so no interior will be modelled. I save the "all stops" modelling for 0-scale!
Nice work so far, and a cool prototype!
Quote from: Ray Dunakin on August 29, 2012, 10:57:22 PM
Nice work so far, and a cool prototype!
Thanks!
By the way, the prototype building was demolished right after we took our pictures. We did not take more than a few measurements, but fortunately it was possible to obtain drawings from a local museum.
Point is: If you know of a prototype building that is worth documenting, do it today!
Just a quick post so you know I havent given up.
On the southern wall of the prototype battens have bben added to the panelling. So on this wall I use Kappler scribed siding (1/32" thick, 3/32" spacing) with 1X4 battens. Tedious work, nice results. This is the sort of job I have to divide into rather short sessionsto avoid going totally bonkers.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fboard_batten_01_w.jpg&hash=7f8c9a17f24df8f4af8c162c613be18f2d4d2016)
Thats all for now, Hauk
The Dark Side of Ødsledal Stenexport:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ftilbygg_02.jpg&hash=8fd28e2997a7487c57185f3061f60acebabb260e)
This is the subassembly for the "Annex" of the building. This side of the building will never bee seen again after the building is placed permanently on the layout. Might be tempting to leav it unpanelled...
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ftilbygg_01.jpg&hash=6a53bd7673d66f3faeb2c665057e7b656421476d)
Nah, too late. Started already. I am really lining the coffers of Kappler, the amounts of stripwood this building absorbes is downright scary.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ftilbygg_03.jpg&hash=0656ad5d5586c64bc9dfe260308e6df8fe5b733c)
Above is a test assembly to see how everything adds up. The plan was to have the building ready this christmas, but that might be a bit optimistic.
Nice clean work as always. Glad to see you back on this.
No worries...you have 11 days left. ;D
Buy yourself a Byrnes Table Saw.
Kappler company profits dropped 5% in the quarter following my getting mine. Scale timber on demand and no waiting for the Pony Express if I run out of an odd size late on a Saturday night. I now only stock 3/4" X 6" X 24" Basswood, Sugar Pine, and Red Spruce blanks from a local lumber yard and use Just In Time Delivery when I start a project. The shame is that I won't be able to take it with me into the hospital after Christmas when I under go the transplant.
Quote from: Hauk on August 27, 2012, 02:03:10 PM
And the point is also to make a relatively simple model, so no interior will be modelled. I save the "all stops" modelling for 0-scale!
Hauk Hello,
why are you building this great model because scale is not 0?
Quote from: Design-HSB on December 19, 2012, 11:50:21 AM
why are you building this great model because scale is not 0?
I´m a member of a model railroad club here in Trondheim, Norway, and this building is for our club layout.
Here is an image of the facades pemporarily placed on the layout:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexport_anlegget.jpg&hash=49eec84a55ca6937e7532473fc2170701a3d2b95)
By the way, Norway is a rocky place, and the layout will reflect that:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Frock_01.jpg&hash=6a4f2d257c5dcda8fe28f9c1f119ea74c6c48a7a)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Frock_02.jpg&hash=5cebba12194fc7950c3746fb7034eaf69b3981e6)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Frock_03.jpg&hash=5b3d01d2c4ed81a8d76545068bbb3014f9c825c0)
Hello Hauk
clear if this is the club I understand the different scale.
The structure of the rocks looks already very nice.
That is going to be a very impressive structure when it's finished!
Quote from: Ray Dunakin on December 20, 2012, 04:29:50 PM
That is going to be a very impressive structure when it's finished!
Thanks to all for the encoragement!
Some work have been done during the christmas holiday:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ftilbygg_treferdig_w.jpg&hash=394026d621fc2387af54e5ef8d2bff859096fd25)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ftilbygget_hele_w.jpg&hash=c3d6f40fa7cdd0e84ea3a423128f1d2da58daef0)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fvindu_macro.jpg&hash=b1fa900a2f0c3c9660a27a8ca32c806aaa1da12c)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fhele_treferdig_w.jpg&hash=d4017b9ff3f7cf80141c5d3ed5f92c389f0b2792)
And the best christmas gift (besides that trip to Berlin my wife gave me) was that I found three of the etched windows I thought was lost forever. The joy of christmas!
Those windows really look good. I like the red siding too.
Satisfactory, especially for HO. -- Russ
Indeed, nice work Hauk.
Coloring is great. Those windows are real winners and HO. Nice job.
Jerry
Thanks to everyone for the encouragement!
One thing I have not mentioned is that SketchUp was a very useful tool for sorting out the roof on the irregular shaped part of the complex. I had no prototype drawings that showed this, so I had to sort everything out based on sketch of the footprint and pictures.
Here is a rendering:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ftakillu2.jpg&hash=d64d871d45d95fcdbb320a430da5f16870e84bbf)
Still at it. All panelling done, the whole building is colored. All but two windows have been glazed with microscope coverslips and mounted.
This is how it looks tonight.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fside_01_w.jpg&hash=4c2fa87f6485bfe72652aef08b493edc266de521)
(That black "scenery" is just a fill of pixels, courtesey of Photoshop. All of the building is for real, though.)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ffront_utsnitt.jpg&hash=61fa26219a0f9221a44dda0e60533317fad5ab2b)
Subroof, gutters, drainpapes and tarpaper are next.
Hauk, I like it ;)
I like the lettering. I am wondering how it was done. :)
Quote from: Chuck Doan on January 10, 2013, 01:03:51 PM
I like the lettering. I am wondering how it was done. :)
Thanks to both of you for taking an interest in my work!
The lettering was made with an vinyl self adhesive stencil that was cut on a CNC-cutter. I could not find a suitable fontface for the letters, so I traced a photo of the sign in Adobe Illustrator to make the cutting paths. The letters were airbrushed with Vallejo acrylic paint. The color was plain white cut with a tiny drop of black.
Finally, the sign was abused a bit with an fibreglass eraser.
The stencil was cut by a friend of mine, and I am really grateful for not having to cut it by hand!
It looks very good at this point. I am enjoying your progress. -- Russ
Very nice Hauk. Really love that coloring.
Jerry
Quote from: TRAINS1941 on January 11, 2013, 06:16:11 PM
Very nice Hauk. Really love that coloring.
Jerry
Thanks!
What I personally love about he coloring is that it took very little time and effort!
Before gluing them to the subwalls I stained all the boards with Silverwood dilluted 1 to 1 with white spirits. Then I ground Conte Crayons on grade 40 sandpaper and sprinkeled it on the walls. I did this after panelling, but before assembly of the building and prior to installing the windows. With a medium stiff paintbrush I worked the powder into the walls. If any area got too red, I used the fibreglass eraser along the grain to remove some. When I was happy with the results, I sprayed the walls with artist fixative.
Honestly, all of the painting took at most a couple of hours.
But the the panelling took forever. I was totally bored by boards in the end...
Well, I tought I had chosen a rather obscure prototype for my warehouse, but guess what:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.nmj.no%2Fimages%2Fnmjh15103_3_slide.jpg&hash=204ed3af11070f1bb350cfea0ece982f2072606e)
A resin model! For around 140 USD you can get a fully asembled and painted model of the main facade of my building.
Fortunately, in my not so humble opinion it looks like crap. Reminds me of those 70-ies Verlinden military dioramas.
But a *little* bit annoying nevertheless...
As the building is placed in a rather steep hillside, there are quite a few retaining walls and foundations to be built. These were buillt from cut stone.
I have started to experient with carving those in plaster.
This is how far I have gotten:
I cast a big piece with a sloping front. I lined the mould with the black foam you can see under the casting.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstottemur_raa_w.jpg&hash=4afe575a84712449419381d0d544da32a8cfb02d)
The stones were carved into the block.
After chipping the stones with various sharp instruments the wall looked like this:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstottemur_w_01.jpg&hash=25056562c10bd9bbb5ceaa5913993a602f93213a)
As you can see, this is a rather long wall:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstottemur_w_02.jpg&hash=cbebf0fe9d18f7b1cce10b765cfa6b38000b4e1d)
This image is a bit misleading, it will be cut shorter and rounded off at one end. Most of it will be placed behind the long lovwer part of the building. For regular viewing maybe 20% of it will be visible.
The size of the darn thing and the fact that this is H0 scale are the reasons I accept this rather crude result.
With some decent coloring this should work for the purpose.
Regarding the coloring, I am open for suggestions on how to approch.
Build up the colors with stains or seal the whole thing and use covering layers followed by washes?
That looks pretty darn good! But in HO; excellent.
I think you are over examining it too.
Once in place it will likely be looked over.
I never seal castings.
I like the way the colors are absorbed differently, however if you go too far or mess up it is almost impossible to remove. I recently played with gouaches on some castings and was quite pleased with the results/effects.
The best advise i have seen is to study real walls. Often repeated here for good reason.
With all the other guys here playing with walls and mold and such you should get some more proficient replies than mine.
-Marty
Nice work!
When I worked with plaster, my preference was to stain it, rather than paint. Stained plaster has a less glossy, more natural appearance, IMHO, than paint.
Nice work, Havard. -- Russ
A little progress. All roofing is in place, and first stages of weathering is applied. A bit unsure about how to proceeds. I guess I have to experiment a bit on a dummy roof
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexporten_taktest.jpg&hash=f9edce3eb3766474f8d22c1b7e31e38c93063a7e)
Beautiful job, Some how though I expected to see sway backed ridge lines, these are mighty near perfect for an old building.
Bill
Looks beautiful. Glad to see you back on this.
i like it as it is.with this scale i feel that a lot of weathering does not work
kind regards kim
That is a lovely piece of work, especially in that scale.
Inclined to agree with Kim, any weathering I think needs to be done with the lightest of touches ( that's good coming from me :D )
Although I wonder if the white on the windows and the name maybe could be toned down slightly, looks a bit stark to me ........ But that is probably what you are going to do
I was wondering when we would see the next installment. It was worth the wait. -- Russ
Quote from: 5thwheel on August 22, 2013, 02:21:25 PM
Beautiful job, Some how though I expected to see sway backed ridge lines, these are mighty near perfect for an old building.
Bill
Sagging roofs ain´t all that common, even on old neglected building. Here are a couple of recent pictures showing the ridgeline on the prototype:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.selhistorie.no%2Fbilder%2Ftolstad_sel.jpg&hash=c69255f66021f60e1630aeaf77fe85171caf02e8)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.nmj.no%2Fimages%2F_dsc0020_slide&hash=ace8ae83c5ff7b984c0f64c04f664037822a6f88)
Quite straight ridge. (Another issue is the windows not lining up straight...)
My building is to be set in the seventies, so it is to be in slightly better condition. Here is the only image I have found of the building in that decade:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexport_70.jpg&hash=4480b64e3875029265a1d506be4833428b386a43)
I think it is possible to see that the windows lined up quite straight back then, while the paint was quite faded and worn. The roofing seems to be an quite light shade of weathered grey.
I have been in fact searching for prototypes of buildings with sagging roofs. Here is the "best" example I have found so far:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ftak_telteffekt_w.jpg&hash=4c62a729afdf4926eb2c7a75cd6fffdb5a4a8fdd)
Its a good reference for weathering roofs as well.
Quote from: Gordon Ferguson on August 23, 2013, 12:25:22 AM
Although I wonder if the white on the windows and the name maybe could be toned down slightly, looks a bit stark to me ........ But that is probably what you are going to do
I think that maybe the whole building needs a "filter" to tone down things and help all the elements blend together. This must wait until the building is completed, and the scenery colors decided. But I really dread that sort of final "make or break" weathering.
I have to make a dummy wall with a little roofing (maybe a little shed) and experiment with a matt varnish with some earth color added.
Or I might leave things as they are, it might be that the latest image is bit light. In this close-up posted a while back it looks a bit better:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ffront_utsnitt.jpg&hash=61fa26219a0f9221a44dda0e60533317fad5ab2b)
You are right that old building has nice ridge-lines. I for sure not aiming for a negative comment, your work is very nice. Here in the Pacific Northwest I am more used to sagging lines, that is unless they fall down first.
Quote from: 5thwheel on August 23, 2013, 06:17:34 AM
You are right that old building has nice ridge-lines. I for sure not aiming for a negative comment, your work is very nice. Here in the Pacific Northwest I am more used to sagging lines, that is unless they fall down first.
I did not feel that your comment was negative at all. I agree that you would expect the ridgeline of that building to have sagged somewhat.
I appreciate constructive criticism, and this forum is one of the very few places people will give you that.
And thanks to all for the interest in my project!
About the weathering: You really made me think. When I compare the model to the side and 3/4 views it looks very close. But, on closer inspection, the full size building's coloration looks less intense or less saturated. The front view, especially, seems almost to have a film over it along with the streaks and the doors show a different kind of weathering than your initial stain.
While you could get away with leaving the finish as it is (and have an excellent "layout quality" model), I'd like to see you take the next step and add more weathering. You have the eye and the talent to pull it off.
Russ
Quote from: finescalerr on August 23, 2013, 11:06:20 AM
About the weathering: You really made me think. When I compare the model to the side and 3/4 views it looks very close. But, on closer inspection, the full size building's coloration looks less intense or less saturated. The front view, especially, seems almost to have a film over it along with the streaks and the doors show a different kind of weathering than your initial stain.
While you could get away with leaving the finish as it is (and have an excellent "layout quality" model), I'd like to see you take the next step and add more weathering. You have the eye and the talent to pull it off.
Russ
Food for thought... I think you are right, even if I am not entirely sure about the last paragraph.
What makes it so difficult is how different the building looks in the prototype pictures. Compare the two images on the top, the winter image gives the impression of a much more saturated, intense color.
So I think I should only trust prototype images so far, and in the end trust the impression that has stuck in my mind after studying the subject over the years.
What I have to do is to place the model on the layout, make some decisions and complete the weathering under the same lighting as on the layout.
Regards, Hauk
We got sag.
I agree that looking at the last image of the model, it could use some slight bit of de-saturation....or overall weathering/unification.... sort of a "scale effect", .....BUT.....like you note the building is out of context. I think your idea of building at least some of the scene around it and then setting the building in to judge, will give you a far better and more accurate feel of where you need to go with it...if anywhere at all...will likely turn out to be perfect as it is.
Also, he said that the building was "to be set in the seventies, so it is to be in slightly better condition." The present day prototype photos show the building with 40 more years of weathering.
Either way, the full size building's paint is more opaque and the model's is more of a stain. Some kind of color unification might improve the effect. -- Russ
Hi. Trying this first time.
From my experience, roof sag goes along with dis-repair. Old houses, garages, sheds and barns that are abandoned, sag. So do the windows, doors and the walls, usually. So more a matter of time and neglect. I would think common sense would help you determine if there should be a bit of sag or not. Once the roof is leaking, the cross members will get wet and bow.
I think part of the fun of realistic model building is figuring out just how much "sag" or weathering to give it. Old and abandoned, sure, give it some sag. Swaybacked railroad rolling stock/cars/buggys were and are fairly common but difficult to model.
Oh, I like your model of this tramway building (I assume to unload the tram buckets into railroad cars) sag or no sag.
Heck my back sways these days.
Max in MI
Looking at the colors, it is for sure the weather conditions outside have a large influence on the perception of the fading and intensity.
It is important, if you want to catch the real colors, to check the situation on the layout with the planned lighting and intended viewing spot.
Jacq
Ok, its time for the ugly thumb again...
I have been working on the gutters and drainpipes lately. Boring work, but it has to be done.
The gutters are etched brass, and the downpipes are 1 mm brass rods. The fasteners for the downpipes was a real drag. They are made from flattened copper wire formed around a piece of brass rod.
Here are some pictures:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep.jpg&hash=081ced35b5fec230eb6a95a2c6f5744a06dce5eb)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep-2.jpg&hash=2664064d13593bd35ca368fdedfae3db3cfc6653)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep-3.jpg&hash=366c150ab1c391518fee8f925cf071f9f5003151)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep-4.jpg&hash=5397ce06e1a230ce648111391983d9b0d5b04186)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep-5.jpg&hash=4f3fac5f3b33e88fb7fbce0abf2c92a29544d9dd)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep-6.jpg&hash=5896d213e72eabe4c676186ad2d945177934f2f4)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep-7.jpg&hash=78abf0406108f4c8c8b220ab8ef4b4e01879c92c)
QuoteThe fasteners for the downpipes was a real drag.
Worth it, though. Those downpipes are very neat.
Hauk,
this looks good to me. How thick is the flattened wire? Maybe you could give a try to self adhesive copper foil (which would not be much thinner, I'm afraid). And this makes me nervous: How do you make your macro photography :o?
Volker
Hello Hauk
Once I like your work well .
Maybe a tip for more real coloring of the downspouts .
The tubes are indeed mostly made of zinc sheet .
Therefore also have a seam that you solder through a thin copper wire , which you can easily replicate something grinded flat.
Also, you should complete the entire tube covered with a thin layer of solder.
Light rays through you erhässt then a perfect look of a zinc tube.
For us , the holders of downpipes see but also very different.
If you now anbohrst from behind the pipe through the clamp, you can solder a thin wire and you have certainly a much nicer downpipe bracket .
Examples in scale 1:22,5
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buntbahn.de%2Ffotos%2Fdata%2F7179%2F13P1030151a.jpg&hash=e005c1db77eee06d4eff0abcd332a28598463e01)
Signal mast with the mast clamps case corresponds to a control tube in diameter.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buntbahn.de%2Ffotos%2Fdata%2F7179%2F13Schild.jpg&hash=cbd7d267296ec2793821fb8f6ce733759e21a556)
Here are the clips on a road sign.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buntbahn.de%2Ffotos%2Fdata%2F6264%2F13P1050963.JPG&hash=71a502b313ba8fd3076417e349bf4ef5ec1d6ef2)
This gate is made of brass and stained with solder.
But how would you make me very interested in your perfect macro shots.
Quote from: Design-HSB on October 06, 2013, 03:55:29 AM
Hello Hauk
Once I like your work well .
Maybe a tip for more real coloring of the downspouts .
The tubes are indeed mostly made of zinc sheet .
Therefore also have a seam that you solder through a thin copper wire , which you can easily replicate something grinded flat.
Also, you should complete the entire tube covered with a thin layer of solder.
Light rays through you erhässt then a perfect look of a zinc tube.
For us , the holders of downpipes see but also very different.
If you now anbohrst from behind the pipe through the clamp, you can solder a thin wire and you have certainly a much nicer downpipe bracket .
Sorry, I should have mentioned that the downpipes are just test fitted to the building. They will be removed for painting and weathering.
The flattended copper wire is a bit thick, it should be a few thou thinner. But the upside is that it is possible to pin the finished downpipes into predrilled holes in the walls.
If this was a model in a larger scale than H0 i would probably make a more advanced bracket. But I have a certain need for speed on my H0-scale buildings, so some compromises have to be made.
But I really appreciate all input and comments!
Quote from: Hydrostat on October 06, 2013, 03:11:56 AM
How do you make your macro photography :o?
Nothing fancy regarding the photography.
I use a Canon G12, and a standard desktop lamp with an old-fashioned 60W bulb.
I hold the part in one hand, the camera in the other. I sort of fold my hands while doing this, so that a movement in the camera also moves the part. I also rest my elbows at the table. I place the lamp as close to the part as physically possible. This gives a lightsource that is a really large one, relatively speaking. The strong light also gives a short shutter speed, even at the smalles aperture. (wich is unfortunately no smaller than f8.0 on the G12.)
This setup gives me exposures of around 1/125 at f.8.0 (200ISO). The room lighting is far below this, so I automatically get background that are almost totally blacked out.
I really prefer handheld camera/part for extreme closeups, as it is much more flexible than with a tripod. The main challenge is avoiding shadows from the lens falling on the part.
Thanks for the explanation, Hauk!
Volker
Wow, very neat pipes Hauk, the best I´ve seen in HO scale :o!
Anders
An interest exchange of information. Thanks, guys. -- Russ
My experience with downspout leader is to use a system called rack & key which is screwed, pop riveted or soldered to the back (house) side of the leader. No support is actually visible on the leader itself. Although I must say you tiny brackets are quite nice. Downspout material is typically galvanized or copper.
http://www.guttersupply.com/m-copper-drives-rackandkey.gstml
Quote from: chester on October 06, 2013, 03:49:25 PM
My experience with downspout leader is to use a system called rack & key which is screwed, pop riveted or soldered to the back (house) side of the leader. No support is actually visible on the leader itself. Although I must say you tiny brackets are quite nice. Downspout material is typically galvanized or copper.
http://www.guttersupply.com/m-copper-drives-rackandkey.gstml
Now that is interesting! I have been a tinbender for over 40 years and have hung about a million miles of downspout/leaders/conductor pipes/etc and I have never even heard of the rack and key system. That said I have to admit we don't live in an area dominated by architecturally significant buildings ;) :D
Rick
Some small progress.
The downpipes are all done and have also been primed since this picture:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep_2.jpg&hash=215c5c6981796a15fe6d5d21550a777965e63452)
Some door for the building:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fdorer_stenexport.jpg&hash=729ecc36c12cf102268276edb17f61db170b01c3)
Small steps, but we are getting there!
Got a bit tired of the red walls, so i got rid of the color:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Freferanser%2Fstenexpo_SH.jpg&hash=dc57260be909472f7ad9f537eed55b87ab8a5a56)
Here is a flight of stairs for that door opening up on the wall:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fbranntrapp_tommel.jpg&hash=02b7c07732241831ef92ecbb0a596d27a39d6ba8)
It is hard to get things as crisp as I want to in H0, but It will have to do.
The stairs look excellent. The hand is out of scale. -- Russ
How did you build it? Did you use a jig for the stairs? For H0 scale it looks very good to me.
Volker
Quote from: Hydrostat on November 03, 2013, 12:52:12 PM
How did you build it? Did you use a jig for the stairs? For H0 scale it looks very good to me.
Volker
I used a very simple jig for the stairs. Here is a an image taken during construction:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Ftrapp_under_bygging.jpg&hash=99357ae90a88bce84c8e9773d0b0feef9401b0e3)
On a smooth surface I drew some parallel lines, and one line with the angle of the stair (a little less than 45 deg.) across. Using double sided tape I attached one stringer along this line. Close to the stringer I taped a piece of steel with the Sam thickness as the stringer. On top of this piece of metal I taped down a length go double sided tape. Then I started to glue down the steps. I used pieces of styrene channel as spacers. These were held I place by the two sided tape. The steps were aligned by eye using the parallel lines as guides.
A bit crude, but it worked Ok.
A thing that really helps when using white glue for joing wood is pre-glueing. I always prepare the surfaces to be joined with diluted white glue. After this dries, I use full-strength glue for the joints.
Really nice work, especially for such a small scale.
Those stairs sure are on the up and up. Nice job.
The stairs look great, but I question the use of wood vs. styrene. I think the wood grain is just too dominant at this scale.
Don't get me wrong, I just think that the material doesn't match your level of craftsmanship.
Christian
Quote from: BKLN on November 04, 2013, 06:13:49 AM
The stairs look great, but I question the use of wood vs. styrene. I think the wood grain is just too dominant at this scale.
Don't get me wrong, I just think that the material doesn't match your level of craftsmanship.
Christian
Interesting point! The wood does indeed look rather fuzzy in cruel closeups
But I still think wood is the best choice, as the rest of the building is wood. And I think a little exaggeration for the weathering, grain, etc is OK for a building that is going to be placed on a large layout. It is a slight element of cariacature that is not entirely out of character for the context.
And I like working with wood because of the speed and ease when it comes to coloring and weathering. I also went to the "same material for model as prototype"-school back in the days...
Really neat work Hauk!
Okay, I can see some fuzz on the wood which is possible to get rid off (no need to go into details here) but not at this stage and as you said for a layout....who will notice. Fantastic work and design for HO scale or any other scale.
Anders
Hauk,
I see that you are very comfortable working with wood, so it's seems to be the right choice. ( I have no doubt that you could have built the whole building out of brass, after seeing your excellent locos )
Building models has a lot to do with the medium and the tools. We use what we are comfortable with. Personally, I never really got into working with wood, only because I didn't have the right resources for what I wanted to do. I am a plastic guy.
Regardless, this is a very nice project. I am still waiting for the aerial trolley / haengebahn. ;)
Hauk,
You write that the gutter is eched brass.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fnedloep-6.jpg&hash=5896d213e72eabe4c676186ad2d945177934f2f4)
Where did you get the etches for the gutter? How were these etches bent and painted?
Have you thought about using thin fuze wire wrapped around the down pipe? Mount these to the building wall. This is used to hold handrails to locomotives. The fuze wire would be nearly invisible.
I read back through the thread concerning the roof. I live in the North East USA. I have been inside many old building and barns. Most roofs start to sag when the foundation decays and the base sills of first floor beams start to rot and structure sags. Barns and old homes did not have good foundations The only other reason is the roof starts to leak and the subfloors and joists start to decay at the upper floors. Keep a roof and foundation tight and the structure will last a long time.
Paul
Quote from: glaskasten on February 07, 2014, 02:13:10 PM
Where did you get the etches for the gutter? How were these etches bent and painted?
Have you thought about using thin fuze wire wrapped around the down pipe? Mount these to the building wall. This is used to hold handrails to locomotives. The fuze wire would be nearly invisible.
I got them from a swedish company called Teknobygg:
http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb616757/ (http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb616757/)
They make a lot of nice detail castings and kits in different scales.
The etches are already bent when you buy them, but they need to be straightened a bit. I insert a 1mm diameter pianowire into the gutter, and use a pair of pliers with broad, smooth jaws to press the gutter snugly against the wire. The gutters are painted with Tamiya grey fine surface primer. Then a dark brown wash from Mig products. I finish with some pigment powder. Nothing fancy, in other words!
Nice little detail!
I love it when HO modeling looks that good. -- Russ
Nice stuff there.
Jerry
that is reall a great warehous
In lack of any real progress, here is a snaphot of the model warehouse next to the real deal:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexpo_w.jpg&hash=4a60ffd0ae31a3744627c7cf0e8580ff29d5c035)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexport_w.jpg&hash=97bd274ab945e9ac1947640e97867802f863977d)
Conclusion? Colors are tricky.
C'mon, build that aerial tramway already!!! ;D
I like it. -- Russ
Very nice.
The prototype seems to have a "cooler" shade of red, whereas yours looks very "warm" (orangish?) But that might be due to the lighting.
Looks great.
I agree with Ray, the lighting differs from building to model... especially the angle of the light. The track side face of the real building is in the shade. Your model has several light sources lighting up the track side face.
Try a photo outside with the sun at the same angle or shoot outside with the whole model in the shade.
Perhaps Hauk was not trying to achieve the same color as the prototype.
Bill Martinsen
Quote from: billmart on April 02, 2014, 07:55:59 AM
Perhaps Hauk was not trying to achieve the same color as the prototype.
Bill Martinsen
O, yes, I was trying!
But as others has pointed out, it is hard to match colors of protytype stuff when the models are to be viewed on an indoor layout. I will try to take some outdoor images this weekend so we can see how much more closer the colors are in the same lighting.
But then again, It does not really matter as the lighting in the layout room is what really counts!
I am a bit uncertain about our choice of lightbulbs, I feel we should have tried to find some bulbs that are a bit closer to daylight.
Could just be a saturation adjustment.
Nevertheless, your model is excellent!
It would seem more logical to color the model to match its prototype and adjust the layout lighting to display it properly. Yes? No? -- russ
Quote from: finescalerr on April 03, 2014, 11:56:18 AM
It would seem more logical to color the model to match its prototype and adjust the layout lighting to display it properly. Yes? No? -- russ
I agree. In theory all that it takes is to find lightbulbs with the same color temperature as daylight.
And when I chose colors for the model, I checked them against pictures of the prototype.
The best would be to get samples of the paint. Thinking about it, on this building I could easily find a loose board to bring home!
But you would still have to compensate for the wieving distance, as there will be fare more atmospheric haze between the viewer/camera in real life than on the model railroad.
Beautiful model.
Glad I'm not the only one who has problems with getting the model to show up in pictures.
Hauk I have the same problem with lighting sometimes I think it's the color red that makes the problem.
Jerry
Agreed, color red a problem here too. Tried every @#$% setting on the camera and deep reds come out pinkish.
Structure is beautiful whatever the color though Hauk
Hauk, did you ever tried to make to the camera white balance?
Quote from: Design-HSB on April 04, 2014, 10:23:39 AM
Hauk, did you ever tried to make to the camera white balance?
O yes.
I use a white card as a reference, but it is still a lot more yellow in the red compared to shooting in daylight.
Stay tuned for some daylight images tomorrow!
Hello Hauk, please try a piece of Styrofoam = polystyrene foam for the white balance.
Your wonderful model must still be to put in a better light.
As promised, here is a daylight shot of the model for comparasion:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexpo_050214.jpg&hash=d0e7dcd9c6dc6571ab57d8dd187d653f2e6f6184)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fstenexport_w.jpg&hash=97bd274ab945e9ac1947640e97867802f863977d)
Still feel that I should have chosen a red with a bit less yellow.
The deeper red in the real photo could be coming partly from the blue sky (your model is shot under a cloudy day). Also the real photo appears to be shot in early spring? With back lighting.
I wouldn't fuss about it too much unless it bothers you - the colours do move around during the life of the building and under different weather conditions.
I wouldn't fool with the color under any circumstances.
After playing with the image in Photoshop I think a few factors are at work:
The photo of the original building has some exaggerated or inaccurate coloration. Just look at the sky and at other areas of the photo so see the inconsistencies.
The front of the building is in deep shade suggesting the entire building may be a different color than actually is. When I adjusted for that, the model's color very closely matched the actual building.
Finally, on the left wall you can see a small patch of the wall through the branches. It is in sunlight and looks closer to the overall color of the model.
Yes, all of this is making a mountain out of a molehill but is is an interesting lesson in what you are up against when trying to match colors from photos.
Russ
I'm sure by now the original is Sweden-red or even better Falun red is.
A main component of color is copper rock, which provides the light for this particular red color.
Try it out if you get this Sweden-red as a powder.
With the powder you could then re-dyeing the surfaces.
Hauk,
what's all the fuss about it? Why didn't you tell us you already built that thingie?
Look what I found at the Intermodellbau:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buntbahn.de%2Ffotos%2Fdata%2F8859%2F5715IMG_7522b.jpg&hash=230b3a7614492c195e9e4b34f50d6c74277bc5b3)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buntbahn.de%2Ffotos%2Fdata%2F8859%2F5715IMG_7523b.jpg&hash=1e6b27eba02cfb4540f7aa2a154aa6b423339da3)
Well, there were some minor differences between your interpretation and this one. Especially concerning everything. But in the very first moment I was really surprised to see that. You surely knew about that kit and have written of that in your thread but I didn't manage to find out so far.
Volker
You are treading on dangerous ground, Volker. For a moment I thought about sending you to the corner .... -- ssuR
Well, thats life. When you choose to scratchbuild something, a kit, or as in this case, a finished commercial model will arrive.
I was a bit p****d off when the model shown above was announced, but after seeing that the finished article was just the main facade and not much else, I shrugged it off. The commercial model is also a pre-painted one piece resin casting that portrays the building in a dilapidated state, so it would have taken a lot of time to kitbash it into an operational building.
But there is no denying that one of the attractions of scratchbuilding is to have a model that nobody else has. I tought about making a kit myself for the entire building, but one of the reasons I dropped the idea is that it would be no fun to see the building on a lot of layouts.
Regarding the coloring. I feel that the topic of choosing colors for our models is a very interesting subject for discussion as this takes a lot of rather subjective choices. You just cant take a scale ruler and settle the question once and for all.
So even if i rant a lot about the color of the model, I will stick to it. But as I feel that my choice is not a 100% success, I try to learn how to do better next time. Thats why I love this forum, it is one of of the very few forums where you can get some constructive criticism.
So keep the comments coming!
As mentioned before, this building is a combined warehouse/aerial tram terminal. I still think that there will be no operational tram, but I think I can squeeze in a tower for the tramway.
I have no drawings for these, but one of them are preserved, and I have found a picture of it on the web:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fmast_taubane.jpg&hash=b5c1d57d63e5325ef37e84ae4d7944f03eac7c75)
One thing that puzzles me is that there is no sign of any wheels or rollers to guide the cable. Can anyone suggest an explanation for this? If it is just a slot for the cable to pass over, the friction would be far to high one would think? Could it be that the wheels are on the buckets/wagons and that the carrying cable is static, and there is a lighter cable doing the pulling?
I might have to do a hike and take a closer look...
But rollers or no roller, that is one damn fine tower, I really like the rivet detail and subtle rust tones!
Best regards, Hauk
Hauk, I have some photos of a similar tram in Pioche, NV on my website:
http://www.raydunakin.com/Site/Aerial_Trams.html (http://www.raydunakin.com/Site/Aerial_Trams.html)
In this photo below, you can see that the upper cables are stationary. The buckets are mounted on wheels which roll over this cable. The lower cable is the one that pulls the buckets. This cable rests on rollers that are mounted on the tram tower. As the bucket passes the tram tower, it lifts the motion cable up.
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.raydunakin.com%2FSite%2FAerial_Trams_files%2FIMG_2614c.jpg&hash=060d74f24dbb4107c043dcf3b2c2ffa3971b74ed)
Hope this helps!
Hauk,
I'm glad you got me as intended. Compared to your outstanding approach to modeling this kit is simply coarse. At the very first moment I was really surprised to see that building at our neighbouring stand from a distance, but having a closer look I realized that it wasn't (a part of) yours. They had some very nice HO scale train models there and it should have been possibly your model on display.
Concerning colouring: Some years ago people started to paint their trains in brighter colors, negotiating distance between real and modeled objects. I tend to use the prototype color and brightness, which seems too dark on first sight, but matches the item in macro photography. My grooved rails look somewhat dark brownish / blackish from a usual distanc - but this is exactly the impression you get when looking in diffuse light at real rails from a distance.
Ray is right with the cable. Some of those systems provided a detachable pulling rope to have the time needed for emptying the bins. At the unloading points the bins often ran on iron tracks rather than ropes, which sometimes had switches to store bins.
Cheers,
Volker
Quote from: Hydrostat on April 16, 2014, 12:24:52 AM
Hauk,
I'm glad you got me as intended. Compared to your outstanding approach to modeling this kit is simply coarse. At the very first moment I was really surprised to see that building at our neighbouring stand from a distance, but having a closer look I realized that it wasn't (a part of) yours. They had some very nice HO scale train models there and it should have been possibly your model on display.
Concerning colouring: Some years ago people started to paint their trains in brighter colors, negotiating distance between real and modeled objects. I tend to use the prototype color and brightness, which seems too dark on first sight, but matches the item in macro photography. My grooved rails look somewhat dark brownish / blackish from a usual distanc - but this is exactly the impression you get when looking in diffuse light at real rails from a distance.
Ray is right with the cable. Some of those systems provided a detachable pulling rope to have the time needed for emptying the bins. At the unloading points the bins often ran on iron tracks rather than ropes, which sometimes had switches to store bins.
Cheers,
Volker
Scale color is a very interesting subject, and we have a quite interesting exercise coming up with the terminal at the other end from my warehouse.
On the layout this will be a 1/500 background building. The goal is to make it obvious to the onlooker that the background building is connected to the foreground warehouse. So the color scheme for both buildings will be the same, but the background building will have a more toned down version of the color to simulate the larger amount of atmospheric haze between the observer and model.
In the background we might have room for two towers, wich will probably be built to different scales to simulate greater depth. Scale color tones will be used for the three towers as well. Guess we will end up doing quite a lot of experimenting!
I have some doubt that a different color will make a model seem to be farther in the background. My guess is that it will simply look like it is a different color.
For decades people have debated how to color models for indoor display or under different kinds of light. Personally, unless somebody can show me a fabulous example of success, I think adapting paint to a given light source is a waste of effort. (I also think it is ineffective to use an N scale background building on an HO scale layout to suggest distance.)
I don't offer these comments because I want to start an angry debate or to seem opinionated so, if anyone disagrees, this thread might be a good place to discuss the pros and cons -- before Havard commits to a course of action.
Russ
I agree on both points, that altering color and mixing scales to achieve depth are not terribly effective, Russ. I do believe that eliminating shine on most finishes is. Glossy reflections have a tendency to make modeling look toy like as well.
An example (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E0UeZOPKVLg) of the representation of perspective by decrease of the scale.
To me that use of three scales just doesn't work. I guess I have too little imagination. -- Russ
The whole concept for the warehouse, tramway and the background terminal might very well stretch the imagination of the viewer too far.
But there is only one way to find out, and that is to build it and evaluate the results. We don't risk much, the background buildings will be very simple buildings with little detail.
If it does not work, we will just remove the background building and plant some trees.
Regarding scale color, I feel that the concept have something going for it. How would you paint a background without using paler colours for the hills and objects most far away? I would argue that the same goes for a background 3D building.
And it is important to remember that scale colour will be less relevant in the larger scales. In the smaller scales, the scale distances we view the models at are far greater.
And regarding forced perspective, my guess is that a smaller scale background building will work if there is sufficient space between the smaller building in the background and the "normal" buildings in the foreground. On our layout there will be around 20" of forested hills between the 1/500 building and the nearest H0 scale item.
But for now, all this is pure speculation. Hard evidence will hopefully follow!
Quote from: Design-HSB on April 17, 2014, 12:09:41 AM
An example (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E0UeZOPKVLg) of the representation of perspective by decrease of the scale.
I like the animated features on that model.
Hauk,
if you give the different scales a try please consider that not only colouring of the whole landscape but texturing also has to change (I'm sure you already did). Things get blueish, brighter and blurred in the distance. The uniform texture is one of the bigger problems I have with Helmut's example. It may help to have a visual barrier between fore- and background, too, like a mountain crest or something.
Cheers,
Volker
Quote from: Hauk on April 15, 2014, 03:22:04 PM
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2Fmast_taubane.jpg&hash=b5c1d57d63e5325ef37e84ae4d7944f03eac7c75)
One thing that puzzles me is that there is no sign of any wheels or rollers to guide the cable. Can anyone suggest an explanation for this? If it is just a slot for the cable to pass over, the friction would be far to high one would think? Could it be that the wheels are on the buckets/wagons and that the carrying cable is static, and there is a lighter cable doing the pulling?
I might have to do a hike and take a closer look...
I got in touch with a historian that have done a lot on research on the tramway and also written a very fine book on the tram and the mining complex it served.
I asked him about the possibility of making a hike to the location of the tower. He had been there several times, and sent me another image of the place. I must admit that my idea of measuring the thing suddenly did not seem so tempting!
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.folk-rovere.org%2Fmj%2Fbilder%2FTaubane.jpg&hash=e7f523fc3e84dd54153735b9127fc02489777e4c)
It might be one of those very few field trips where you would consider bringing a parachute!
He also told me that when he did the research for the book he walked/climbed the entire length of the tramway. There are still wooden ladders in place that was built for the maintenance crews. Climbing a 60+ year old wooden ladder up that cliff? I dont think so...
Yikes! Watch out for that first step!