1/24 Gn15 Crane

[jacq01]

   Gordon,

   it is coming along very nicely. There is one thing bothering me, the weathering/rust on the counterweight is not fitting in with the weathered finish of the rest. 

   Jacq

[Gordon Ferguson]

   There is one thing bothering me, the weathering/rust on the counterweight is not fitting in with the weathered finish of the rest. 

   Jacq

Jacq, you are correct .... and I will probably have to sort.

The plan was to have the counterweight, which is a water ballast tank slightly rustier than the rest due to the different construction (light steel plate as opposed to girders) and the presence of the water. However the difference is too great currently, a combination of lightening the weather on the tank and adding a bit more to the rest should close the gap to a more realistic level ..... I hope?


When I post next updates please let me know if you think I am getting any closer

[Gordon Ferguson]

One photo to show where I have got after further filters and some general washes in an attempt to bring together the ballast tank and the rest of the crane as per Jacq's comments



Any comments are welcome as since my previous modelling experiences the paint materials and techniques have certainly expanded and the more thoughts and direction I can get will be a great help.

thanks

[jacq01]

  Gordon,

  the top of the battery should have no rust..... Same for the parts of the electric motor.  This looks imo a lot better, but still too shiny. Do you plan to add dirt and dust?

  Jacq
 

[Gordon Ferguson]

Thanks for the feedback Jacq.

Again your right, will sort out rust on battery tomorrow ..... probably will tone down rust stains on electric motor, it is made of steel so happy to justify some rust!

Haven't done any pin washes yet so next stage will be a satin coat, pin washes and then a flat coat to kill any gloss.

Like the idea of adding some dirt just not to sure how to do it yet?

Keep up the critique ... its like being back university again 

[Ray Dunakin]

It looks beautiful, although I agree with the points made by Jacq. Take care of those issues and you've nailed it, imho.

[lab-dad]

For me, FWIW, right now (last image)
I think it is to monochromatic.
There should be some subtle color and texture variations.
At the least with the cables (should be somewhat silver if in use) and other materials.
More so the color bothers me, sorry it is just too much of the blue.
I would usually offer some more recommendations when giving negative feedback
Right now I dont have any more or the time to offer some visual clues.
Not having an exact prototype here does not help, but some of the images might be of an assist.
I know you can improve this up to the level of the build!
Hope this helps

-Marty

[Gordon Ferguson]

Marty,

valid comments  and I will try answer factually rather than defensively.......

Monochromatic, yes I was hoping the weathering would alter this fact but I was wrong .... may be able to adjust slightly with additional items to add some colour ( rags, tools, etc) I was concerned that on a model that is only about 3 inches by 2 inches too much colour would look wrong as well.

Cables, the plan was to end displaying model as semi abandoned in a siding, hence the cable would be at best rusty rather showing burnished steel ..... think the real issue here is that I did not add some texture to the plastic rod before putting in place, this would have made a significant difference at this stage I think. (re MR's ealier comments)

The fact of the matter is that in simple terms I may be at the end of the second year of a 5 year course in scratch building but I am only at the end of the first term of 5 years when it comes to painting and finishing!

Already learnt a few things for when I try to paint the roller ;-

1. lighten the tonal ranges considerably at the early stages as subsequent filters and weathering tends to darken the final finish. (thought I had learned this lesson, but appears not to have sunk in)

2. The old adage less is more is really true when applying different paint effects, less chipping less rust .... its always easier to add more its almost impossible to take it away.

The thought has crossed my mind to just bin this or at least take all the paint off and start again. However decided that I will try to correct some bits where I can and then accept that for this one its the best i can do , then keep it on the shelf to remind me of what I should do better, when painting the next model.

Thanks for the feedback folks, and feel free to keep it coming,  its made me ask myself some searching questions and helped me focus & understand where I need to put some more practice in 


EDIT:

Marty, been sorting out my lighting set up ,this is slighty more accurate and not as "blue"

 

[lab-dad]

that shot is better!
Glad my nonsense was of help.
-Marty

[marc_reusser]

Gordon,

Sorry for no input on this before, but I couldn't really see where you were going with it....so now that I see, here are hopefully some constructive comments (at least for the next time).

A dark shade of blue, Green, or Red ...are tough colors to rust and weather...because the effect is hard to see against/in contrast to the color, which makes it is easy to overdo........so one really needs to start in the tonal variations of the paint. 

If something has been sitting out and rusted/weathered as much as you are representing, then the paint would be far from as dark as you have it. So right of the bat the paint would be lighter in hue....if not from sun bleaching, then from rain and other elements causing the paint to fade and even develop a lighter hazy surface.
I also suggest taking "scale effect" into account when using dark colors.....meaning that the color is lightened by at least 10% to begin with.

Another thing to consider is that some surfaces...primarily upper, side and unprotected surfaces will wear and fade more readily/rapidly than undersides and protected areas.  So paint will likely be darker or at least closer to the original hue in the latter.

Some surfaces will also simply fade more or less than others, or take on a different hue, for what may appear to be no reason whatsoever....but this can for instance be attributed to things like poor subsurface prep, different metal/construction material, different heating & cooling (or moisture on one side like in the water weight)....or maybe the thing was always parked with the same side to the sun, or near some bushes /trees....the list can go on.
Lastly we want to consider lighting.....of the "model"....in order to get a bit more "pop/punch" and depth out of the model we need to consider playing mother nature just a bit and sing some tricks like pre-shading (darkening  of seams, panel lines, undercuts, etc. using a dark color or black)...panel shading (lightening up the color a cit towards the center of panels)...and even Color Modulation (which incorporates aspects of everything in the last couple of paragraphs).
[Filters.....NOT washes.... can also be used to get more depth and variation out of the surfaces/parts, but that is a whole other topic, and should not be used in lieu of the above, but in addition to.]

I may be wrong...but I am going to take a guess and say you basically applied your color coat in one layer/coat.  I would recommend spraying your color coat in a minimum of two, preferably 3 light coats. The light coats will allow you better control, and the ability to adjust opacity (this is helpful when pre-shading is used).....it will also allow you to lighten or change the hue of your color on subsequent coats....this will help you with 'panel/surface shading' and getting some variation/fading out of surfaces.

Because the coats are thin, you do not need a lot of dry time between them......at least in my experience using Tamiya or Vallejo, by the time I have quickly rinsed the AB, lightened up and re-thinned the paint color, the and reloaded the AB...the layer is dry enough and ready to go.

Another obvious advantage of thin coats is that all your hard work building & detailing the model will show nicely and crisply........this also helps to then obtain crisper, more defined, and more plausible weathering effects.

Then once the paint is on:

If you did hairspray you can begin the chipping (BTW. Thin coats will also give you "finer" more controllable HS-chipping.) Don't wait too long, as the longer you wait the harder it is to chip.

Or you can move on to (in a slightly interchangeable order depending on effect desired and comfort with techniques):

Mapping (if desired)
Filters
Fading
Chipping (painting on positive and/or negative chips) , scratches, wear, etc.
Pin Washes
Rust
Dust & dirt
Oil/grease



HTH,

Cheers,

Marc

[Gordon Ferguson]

Thanks Marc for taking the time to put together such a detailed comment.

"but I couldn't really see where you were going with it" ......... succinctly sums up what the problem probably was, I did not really understand or know where I was going with it!


I did go down the route of light coats and lightening colors to highlight but as the very first one was too dark everything after that was going to be wrong!

I'll go away and re-read your comments and think about how to approach the roller.

[marc_reusser]

It's a tough call to try and choose a painting approach. Each has its benefits and issues:

For intance, when chipping with hairspray I find subsequent fading, filters and washes much harder to do, because I don't want them getting on the nice matte chipped surface/areas (because the oil paint can make them seem satin...whick is okay for some rust and wear...but not on others).

For the Color Modulation method does one do the entire model in a black/dark shade....or doesa one think ahead and try to use more of a pre-shading approach? ( personally only use concepts and aspects of CM...but not necessarily the whole technique...or if I do, I prefer it on a more subtle level....but then I have only done a couple of projects along it's line)

Panel fading with the color coat, or fading with artist oils afterward?

...and there are others....and none of these is necessarily a clear cut "one way or the other" option.....

One trick you should consider trying with your filters and washes (and even rust streaking), is that of placing the small dab of whatever artist oil color (or ABT-502 color) you are using on some cardboard or chipboard (the stuff backs of pads are made of), and letting some of the linseed oil carrier wick out onto/into it....then use some of this dab to mix your filters/washes........the removal of some of the linseed oil will make the wash/filter have less of a sheen (be more flat)...so when it does get onto the matt rust reas it will not show nearly as much.

Another thing you can do, is instead of using artists oils for those small dabs of rust that you "pull down" with a turp moistened brush, to create rust streaks, you can try using Humbrol flat enamels (don't know if Model-Master oils will work the same...have not tried). These dry pretty much dead flat...which is what rust streaks should be. [Though I have a good number of Humbrol paints and do on occasion use them, I find that their containers make them unwieldy and really a PIA to get them thoroughly mixed before use].




MR

[Mr Potato Head]

Maybe you can expand on "mapping" some more I am a little foggy on this step???
Thanks
Gil

[marc_reusser]

You're trying to make me suffer aren't you Gil?...okay..let me write up something.

MR

[Gordon Ferguson]

"Mapping" look forward to the SBS Marc ..... it will help with my limited understanding of the subject which is based almost entirely on this

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=370.msg4451#msg4451


Oh, the crane in having a repaint - although I admit, like most of us when in trouble we revert to what we know & understand, this time I've gone back to Gouache paint and graphite for most of the weathering ... pictures will follow.