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General Category => Painting & Weathering Techniques => Topic started by: finescalerr on May 25, 2016, 05:59:18 PM

Title: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on May 25, 2016, 05:59:18 PM
I'm trying to come up with a much better formula for emulating weathered wood than anything I've previously done. The first attempt is in the trash and this is the second. Too much variation in color and contrast? Everything is starting to look the same to me at this point. I could use some input, please. -- Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Ray Dunakin on May 25, 2016, 07:17:48 PM
What material is this?
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on May 25, 2016, 09:00:27 PM
Paper, but it shouldn't matter. Either it looks like wood or it doesn't. If it doesn't, I need to come up with a different approach -- and NOT use an inkjet printer.

I have so many kinds of paper, and such large quantities, it seemed I should figure out a way to use it. This attempt began with a brown water color wash, then an application of Silverwood, then washes of lacquer thinner, turpentine, and denatured alcohol, then a few swipes of dilute brown, yellow, and black watercolors, and finally more denatured alcohol. The scale is 1:32 (eight inch wide boards).

The process was unnecessarily complicated. I read your article about painting styrene to look like wood, Ray, and also Chuck's method of staining and distressing the wood in his 1:16 scale barn diorama. Since neither technique directly applies, I tried to incorporate the "spirit" of what you guys did to work out a starting point.

Under magnification these boards look very close to some stained stripwood I have. But, to me, they still look too much like "model wood" rather than miniaturized real weathered wood.

I tried to make the photo an accurate representation of what I actually see in the workshop.

Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Guy Milh(imeter) on May 26, 2016, 12:09:41 AM
You are being very hard on yourself Russ! Looks like real wood to me!!
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Hydrostat on May 26, 2016, 12:59:46 AM
Rather texture than coloring bothers me, looking to coarse and at the same time to consistent for raw cut wood. I think the water based washings push the paper fibres up. So one way may be avoiding that. Just some deliberations instaed: Try a flatiron to bring fibres down again. Or drench rear with superglue and then sand the surface a bit - I don't know. Additionally some sharper color edges may add to the appearance alongside some of the 'wood' fibres.

Cheers,
Volker
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: lab-dad on May 26, 2016, 04:58:57 AM
I think they look pretty good.
Wood is different colors in real life.
As you know my other hobby is woodworking.
Hell even one board has several color variations.

They may be a reason no one uses paper for wood?

Mj
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Bill Gill on May 26, 2016, 05:02:54 AM
Russ, I think Volker has hit the nail on the proverbial plank: texture. It produces shadows that change when the lighting and/or the viewer shift position. Both Ray's and Chuck's weathered boards have 3D grain and checks and splits that create real shadows. The very fine natural grain of the wood also catches the light differently at different angles, giving a bright silvery look under some conditions, even at distances where you can't possibly see the grain. The moving eyes see those changes in brightness and perhaps long, fine, roughly parallel shadows getting more or less prominent, and the brain says I've seen that, that's old wood. With a nearly smooth paper surface the almost depthless embossed grain creates "shadows" that don't change when you/the light move around, so the brain says not-wood no matter how convincing the color is.

And speaking of knot-wood, most of the neglected old wood I've seen has a fair number of knots. Your small blemish free sample compared to Ray's & Chuck's is a bit apple wood to orange sticks. And those details further add more shadows.

Here is your test and two samples of relatively clear wood out in the weather, similar to your sample. Side by side, on a computer monitor, with a fixed viewing angle and lighting direction they look pretty similar.  But you are looking at your actual model from multiple angles. The upper one looks similar to a sample you made with a printer some time ago.
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Bill Gill on May 26, 2016, 05:08:00 AM
Here is your test and two samples of more heavily weathered wood. You can see the illusive "silvery" look on a couple boards – alas, not yet replicable by any known modeling technique short of letting actual model wood sit out in the weather.
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on May 26, 2016, 12:28:01 PM
Volker, I did notice the texture and hate those tiny paper fibers. I'll try using an iron and report back. I've already applied flat varnish to the boards but it was of no help but I have other papers with much more subtle textures (and maybe less fiber).

Bill, ain't no way I could produce realistic knots with paper unless I devise some kind of press (like using metal tubes to create the outline of a knot). We can't even make stripwood come close enough to your examples so that's why I used photos to create inkjet printed paper wood. Adding "proper" grain is another near impossibility. Wire brushes raise little fibers and the grain channels are too subtle. A razor saw blade is too coarse and will tear up the paper. And how on earth could anybody create the intricate coloration of some of your examples in a scale as small as 1:32? I've spent a long time studying photos of weathered boards and all of those issues have plagued me for years.

On the other hand, I wonder how my paper wood sample might look under a layer of crackle paint ... or whether any use of paper is suitable only for an impressionistic approach. It's fun to experiment but a waste of time unless the results are satisfactory.

Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Bill Gill on May 26, 2016, 04:49:27 PM
Russ, If you ignore the two knots in the top photo I posted, those boards have about the same amount of grain as your example, but the grain lines in the photo are lighter than the rest of the board and there's also less color than your test. It almost looks like a silvered B&W print of wood, but it ain't. It reminds me of the look of one of your inkjet wood tests from (?) a couple years ago.

The second photo has basically no grain at all showing, there's just those traces of old paint. The few knots are tiny and tight and would be invisible from a few feet away so can be omitted, though if someone were really pushing it, perhaps colored pencils lightly applied with dull points might be able to suggest their presence. Perhaps, better, forget the knots and the photo could be part of a guide for trying your crackle paint idea.

The last two photos are more typical of what many modelers aim for when weathering wood. Ignore the grain, but the top one of those has some coloration that resembles your test if you remove the red from yours.

Ironing might help, but if the paper is ever subjected to high humidity that might not be a permanent solution unless you seal the paper. Maybe a test of different sealers like clear flat lacquers or acrylics might help get rid of the fuzzy grain of the paper?
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: peterh on May 27, 2016, 11:18:01 PM
Russ, nice work. I've been following your work on using paper as a modelling material for several years.

I suggest that generally toning it down might help: make it all a bit lighter and reduce the variations of color and darkness a bit. You could try representing the grain by light knife cuts, mostly at the ends where wood cracks first.

To reduce the fibres, I'd suggest a coat of gesso first. I usually rub it on with a cloth to give a smooth finish to represent wood. But if you apply it with a bristle brush or sand it when it's dry then you can get a 'grain' effect that persists through later coats.

This gentleman uses stencil card / oiled manila, which you can sand to represent 'wood grain': https://davidneat.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/making-a-panelled-door-in-stencil-card/.

Personally, at these scales I use veneer and strip wood to represent wood, and I enjoy how the veneer is strong enough to let me build it plank-by-plank, just like the prototype. Paper just doesn't feel as nice to me.
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on May 28, 2016, 12:03:51 AM
Thank you for that information, Peter. I've spent the past couple of days working on more realistic coloration. I actually sanded my paper today with decent results but gesso sounds like a better approach. I've had many thoughts about where to use paper and, frankly, unpainted weathered wood has been one I've avoided. This is all just an experiment to see what I can accomplish before I actually cobble together a diorama. It's fun discovering what I can do ... and what I can't. -- Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Allan G on May 28, 2016, 05:53:06 PM
Russ; I could use all of them. Really like the last few!!! Allan
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on June 01, 2016, 04:43:24 PM
I have spent the past several days messing with different papers and coloring methods. Let's start with the "failures". Some boards may look okay in a photo but the papers were too soft and developed a little bit of fuzz from repeated applications of watercolors, SilverWood, denatured alcohol, lacquer thinner, art preservation varnish, or whatever else I used.

Maybe I'm being too picky, because under magnification you can see fuzz on stripwood, too. My paper experiments often looked about as real as stained wood ... only different. Each has positive and negative characteristics and, if nothing else, reminded me of the shortcomings of using real wood. Even so I wanted to do better.

Here are the first few boards.

Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on June 01, 2016, 04:56:04 PM
At that point I hadn't yet realized the papers were too soft, especially after I cobbled together this board and bat wall. The finish consisted of a wash of brown watercolor, a wash of SilverWood, and an application of varnish. The paper is Strathmore Bristol plate, the highest quality they make, and comes only in large sheets. Other Strathmore Bristol papers are softer but I didn't realize that until I found myself unable to replicate this result.

The top two horizontal boards in the second photo are Strathmore Bristol from a pad and Lanaquarrelle cold press art paper (terrific for use with inkjet printers, by the way). The narrower boards are the same papers but I bought some gray weathered wood stain at the hardware store and tried it out. It was too thick, like paint, and I couldn't thin it enough after it had soaked into the paper. What the heck. I wanted to see what results I could achieve. Not bad, and probably would be better were I to thin the "stain" before applying it to the paper, but the various applications of paint, pastel chalks, and whatever else raised too much fuzz.

I was getting frustrated but knew I was making progress.

Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on June 01, 2016, 05:16:13 PM
That's when I realized the board and bat siding was from the high quality, hard Strathmore Bristol I mentioned above. I knew I could replicate the board and bat result so I tried something a little different with that paper: First I applied a couple of washes of Apple Barrel acrylic tan to my hastily scribed boards. The result was a color close to raw, freshly cut pine. Before the acrylic cured I applied streaks of dilute brown watercolor and dabbed the crudely scribed knots with dilute brown. Then I brushed on three coats of Silverwood.

I let that sit for about three hours and brushed on three coats of a dilute wash of India ink and alcohol. In retrospect, I'd use SilverWood again; it's less coarse and more elegant. I let the result sit overnight.

This morning I lightly rubbed in brown and gray Bragdon weathering powders, brushed off the excess, and washed everything down with two brush swipes of acetone. Under close scrutiny, the result comes closest to the appearance of the weathered wood in Chuck Doan's barn/Fordson tractor diorama and surpasses any result I've previously achieved with stripwood.

So, by combining Ray Dunakin's method of carving styrene boards with the essence of Chuck's wood staining technique ... after finding the right paper ... I've obtained the best results of my life. It takes no more time than it would had I chosen stripwood and the results seem about equal.

Your comments, criticisms, or ridicule are most welcome.

Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Chuck Doan on June 01, 2016, 09:01:21 PM
Starting at reply #13, you really got my attention Russ! This is really looking good. I think you should be happy.

If the center of the knots had a bit more definition...color/detail...not sure what approach to take, but I think that would be the last hurdle.



Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Ray Dunakin on June 01, 2016, 11:02:08 PM
Color and texture look great! Only minus is the knots which, as you say, are somewhat crude. They could also use a bit more color.
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: peterh on June 01, 2016, 11:33:53 PM
That looks really good Russ. Realistic graining and nice subtle variation in color.

What do you scribe the grain with?
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on June 02, 2016, 12:00:40 AM
I wanted to use a wire brush or even a razor saw but they tend to cut through the skin of the paper and produce fuzz. So I resorted to my standard and always excellent scribing tool, the metal point from a student's compass in a pin vise. It's the same as using a pencil. There is no trick to scribing grain; almost anything you do will look decent. As everyone seems to have noticed, though, creating knots is a little more tricky. (Maybe the toothpick trick will work with Strathmore.)

The good news is, these boards are for 1:32 scale (or smaller) so in actual viewing you can't see how lousy the knots look. To put that into perspective, the actual size of each board in the final photo is about three inches long by about half an inch wide.

Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: lab-dad on June 02, 2016, 05:29:17 AM
Your definitely (finally ;) ) on to something.
The knots and surrounding grain are the only giveaways.
I'd say look at some real wood and you will have complete perfection.

Glad you didnt give up!
Cant wait to see what you build!  :o

-Mj
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Bill Gill on June 02, 2016, 02:59:37 PM
Russ, Those new boards are very good looking! I like the color, grain & knots a lot. I think you found the right touch and combination of paper and colorings.

Two possible ideas that you might look at if you experiment further (though these samples look really good as is):
There are various size blunt needles for sewing different materials, tapestry, raffia, etc. Some are thick and fat, but I think some are very thin and maybe they could add a little variety in grain thickness, or could help detail any future large knots without tearing the surface.

This might be way overkill, but if you did fiddle with more grain/knot detail for close up photos, what if you took a B&W photo of weathered wood, scale it and turn it into a high contrast B&W only image so just the grain shows, lay it on a light table as a 'tracing' guide and put your untreated Strathmore plate Bristol over that.

Like I said that's probably a lot more than necessary for any models you'll build, but it might be interesting to see how far you can extend your success.

Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: nk on June 09, 2016, 07:04:53 AM
Russ I am with Chuck on this. From response 13 onwards you are getting it right, and the colour is spot on. . I agree that texture and the knots are the two things to work on. Have you tried making tools to burnish/compress the wood a little to give a slightly layered effect to the wood grain? Its just a thought.
Narayan
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on June 28, 2016, 12:48:48 AM
I have spent at least an hour or two every day this month trying to devise a consistent, simple, reliable technique (beyond what I've already shown) to replicate unpainted wood with paper. Please keep in mind that the photos I have posted show strips measuring about 3/16-inch wide so the flaws and over-scale detail appear grossly exaggerated in the highly magnified images. Suggestions for making special tools or using microscopic embossing needles simply won't work, not only because of the small size of the examples but also because the surface of even fairly robust paper is very delicate. A smaller needle causes tears.

Some techniques produced very good results but are inconsistent; one piece looks very good, another looks mediocre. The papers themselves, and I've tried half a dozen, are too delicate to permit the use of a wire brush for subtle grain. Paints and stains go on unevenly or dry to a speckled finish. Any brush harder than camel hair tends to raise fibers (as some earlier photos reveal) and the only reliable way to add grain is to draw it in, very delicately, with a scribing tool. If the point is too fine it will tear the surface. Bottom line: What a frustrating pursuit!

Still, under the magnifying glass, I was able to create 1:48 scale paper boards very close in appearance to distressed and stained wood. The macro lens is powerful enough to reveal the differences (as the photo shows) and the paper boards are slightly closer to the camera than the wood so everything looks a little bigger. In person, the difference between them is negligible.

The technique is simple: Scribe the paper, stain with a dilute mix of India ink and denatured alcohol, use a small brush to apply pastel powders, and wash the result with more denatured alcohol. Of all the papers, Strathmore bristol, readily available in pads at art and craft stores, is the only one reliable and robust enough to yield consistent results and no fuzz.

I'm not finished with my experiments but I am getting pretty tired of imperfection.

Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: finescalerr on June 28, 2016, 12:53:56 AM
Here's another photo showing real wood and a variety of papers and coloring techniques. What surprised me is how the 1:48 scale wood planks (stained with India ink and alcohol about ten years ago) certainly look like wood ... but don't look at all the way full size weathered wool planks would look. A couple of paper samples come closer!

As I said above, what an exercise in frustration.

Russ
Title: Re: Wood?
Post by: Bill Gill on June 28, 2016, 04:08:50 AM
Russ, I looked at your most recent photos a lot but couldn't find the "imperfection" parts, please mark them so they can be critiqued :)