Not wanting to hijack Marc's thread, here are a couple of photos of the
"Peeled Paint Salt Technique" as applied to a car model done by Virgil Suarez:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages49.fotki.com%2Fv1504%2Fphotos%2F4%2F684514%2F7538701%2FIMG_6-vi.jpg&hash=3afa66d83c97ad2469318f7d975fca126e018fb7)
I know....it's not train-related, but the technique works on just about any metal surface...
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages49.fotki.com%2Fv1460%2Fphotos%2F4%2F684514%2F7538701%2FIMG_0002-vi.jpg&hash=cc2d09ece3f10638724102f3c1351d89be2e0179)
The secret is to not overdo it. Marc pulled it off perfectly in his post.
Are you parting the 57 out?? if so ill take the front clip. ;D looks like the real thing. i need to learn how to do this ;D Craig Mich
What Hijack????...this is great Ken.....Virgil is like the Godfather of the salt technique (I think it comes from his childhood ;D ;D)...and the one you posted is a beautiful example. There are a couple of threads over on the MIG forum where virgil goes through all the steps for applying/using the salt technique:
http://www.migproductionsforums.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2802 (http://www.migproductionsforums.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2802)
http://www.migproductionsforums.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3115 (http://www.migproductionsforums.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3115)
...there are another couple....but these two are probably the most thorough.
The great thing is that this technique need not be used as a stand-alone, but it can be combined with the hairspray technique as well as others, to give you a wide range of options and detail level for chipping and weathering.
M
HA!
Thanks for the links, Marc.
Looks like Ol' Virgil gets around. He's one of the most enthusiastic
builders I've ever met, and he really does have the salt thing nailed.
Virgil's great fun....I always enjoy seeing what he cooks up.
Though this on is not salt technique I thought it might be of interest anyhow (this Chevy is a project in progress by Charlie Dameron, one of our modeling group members).
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.earthlink.net%2F%7Erbadesign%2FChD_Hood.jpg&hash=b8caf0810052f82be3befdde8974c126208dbf4c)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.earthlink.net%2F%7Erbadesign%2FChD_FrontFender.jpg&hash=01bee4602eef99b2e0c235a017017516e6f730f3)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.earthlink.net%2F%7Erbadesign%2FChD_Roof3.jpg&hash=aa5ae7840104390fd5b28bc4f76367c27e73ed11)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.earthlink.net%2F%7Erbadesign%2FChD_Roof1.jpg&hash=012ad32de6d33ac4012cce88b906db3444949bfe)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.earthlink.net%2F%7Erbadesign%2FChD_Roof2.jpg&hash=3510306ceff6b4ad4cb366f5ad8468f415d86426)
M
That is SHARP! 8)
Mike
Charlie's car, and how he weathered it, will take up a lot of pages in the upcoming December Modelers' Annual. Ask your mom to bring one home today! -- Russ
Russ,
That's great to hear. I was wondering if he had finished this beauty. Did you ever shoot pics of his Camaro (If so...can I get a set for the website?)
M
Quote from: finescalerr on October 21, 2009, 01:46:37 AM
Charlie's car, and how he weathered it, will take up a lot of pages in the upcoming December Modelers' Annual. Ask your mom to bring one home today! -- Russ
Mom already ordered a copy. I paid for it with my lawnmower money! Saved for the entire summer!
Seriously, do you plan to widen the scope for the Modellers Annual and remaking it into a magazine devoted to fine scale modelling in general?
If so, I applaude it . Fine modelling is fine modelling, regardless of the subject. But it would be a bold move!
Regards, Håvard
That's great news, Uncle Russ. Although here are plenty of wonderful automotive
builders out there in Hobby Land, they usually get the short end of the stick.
Can't wait to see the Dec. issue (I DID remember to re-up my subscription, didn't I??)
Håvard, that was a great line about saving your lawnmower money. And, to answer your question, yes, the Modelers' Annual scope was always supposed to include techniques from any "genre". So this year it includes Charlie's rusting techniques, Don Railton's Styrofoam brick technique, Chuck Doan's tractor rebuild (with all that marvellous weathering), Gordon Birrell's fantastic scratchbuilt truck models, and a bunch of other goodies you will love. I think only one project is strictly "railroad" in nature but it represents a non-working caboose (perfect for Marc's non-working locos).
Modeling is modeling. And those idiots who can't make the logical jump from rust on a 1:12 scale auto to that on a 1:87 scale caboose really have no business inhabiting our planet. I continue to welcome articles about structures, tractors, tanks, trains, and anything else that demonstrates outstanding construction or finishing techniques.
Ken, your subscription is good through the end of this year. To guarantee that it continues through the end of 2010, please remit $10,000,000 and send it over in the warm, velvety hands of a beautiful girl in a thong bikini.
Russ
Quote from: finescalerr on October 21, 2009, 12:17:16 PM
To guarantee that it continues through the end of 2010, please remit $10,000,000 and send it over in the warm, velvety hands of a beautiful girl in a thong bikini.
How 'bout fifty bucks hand-delivered by me in a Speedo?
(Wow...that even made
MY eyes hurt)
OK Ken, you pay me 50 bucks and I might be willing to see you in a thong.
Virgil is an enthusiastic builder to say the least. Most prolific and more than quite adept. Great stuff Ken and Marc thanks for bringing it to us.
Looks to me that the Magazine excuse me the Books will be getting better than they already are. Thanks to Unc we have a beautiful Book to look at three times a year.
Jerry
Gee Russ,
Sounds like there poses an opportunity for a new publication..."finescale illustrated - the swimsuit edition, with bonus calender". Ken can have January, but I'd prefer if your subscription delivery girl took care of the rest of the year!
Back on the rust though...I am impressed with the roof finish on the car pictured above. I have seen a good number of "old Holden's" with exactly the same rust patterns getting around here in the harsh Aussie sun, many with the original owner still driving them (and some of them look as weather beaten as their pride and joy car).
Dan
A long (10 pg.) thread.....and the subject matter and stylized (but appropriate for this genre of model) finishes may not be everyones cup of tea.....but I would rate it as a "must read" (at least the builders posts) for the variety of finish techniques and approaches discussed/shown.
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=31535&page=1 (http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=31535&page=1)
It covers everything from salt technique to metal and fabric surfaces, figure painting and ground-work/display.
There are defniitely ideas and approaches to come away with, that can be used or modified and added to your toolbox/bag of tricks.
Marc
Thanks, Marc. You're right - those techniques can be used anywhere.
I just finished all ten pages of that link. Amazing work and very interesting.
Thanks Marc. Awesome! I am now much more convinced! ;)
Thanks Marc,
Very much informative... :)
Mike
Thanks Marc, Great info....wish i could paint like that..........Craig
Quote from: marc_reusser on October 22, 2009, 11:14:14 PM
A long (10 pg.) thread.....and the subject matter and stylized (but appropriate for this genre of model) finishes may not be everyones cup of tea.....but I would rate it as a "must read" (at least the builders posts) for the variety of finish techniques and approaches discussed/shown.
An excellent tutorial!
The subject of modelling is not my cup of coffee, but with painting skills like that he could model soviet-era refrigerators and washing machines and I still would read his posts with great interest.
Thanks for the link!
The salting technique can be adapted and perfect to any type of model building . . . also, I continue to experiment with the effects of using the salt wet and then spraying Floquil and Tamiya acrylics over the moist salt to create organic speckling, fading, and chipping . . . ultimately, there's no way to control the effect other than using the Iwata Micron C or a better, finer airbrush . . .
The fun continues. Marc has been a great inspiration to continue with the experimentation.
The salt technique is ingeniously simple. Here is my first attempt, the entire HO scale model took me about 1 hr start to finish. Nothing fancy, just brown paint, salt, black paint. The headlight is a stick-on craft store "jewel" (I removed it and sanded it down after the photo.)
Dave
Indeed, it is very exciting when you do it the first couple of times and realize how utterly simple and fun it is . . . and sure, it works on any scale. Keep having a blast with the results. ;D
So, that's the salt technique sorted!
I forced myself through all the pages of that sorry subject matter, but I must say, the guy has nsome serious patiece and techniques up his iron sleeve.
Thanks for the link, Russ. And may I apologise on behalf of all Brits and say that we're not all sci-fi loving stay at home nerds who think "space marines" are real!
Martin
Quote from: Hector Bell on October 20, 2010, 05:01:37 AMwe're not all sci-fi loving stay at home nerds who think "space marines" are real!
The better ones are. ;)
Unfortunately, I can believe that.
Martin
The rest are down at the local pub yelling at the football match on the telly. ;) ;D :P
Marc
I know as much about the salt technique as I do space marines. I think I'll sign up...to try the salt technique on a few scrap bridge parts.
I'd get claustrophobic in the space suit thingy so skip that.
Thanks, John
Seems a damned shame that the skills exhibited on that sci-fi forum, which I take it is English, aren't
displayed in the British model railway world or even just the non military (fantasy or otherwise) world.
I'm sure some keen sociology PhD student could make an interesting study of that fact!
Martin
Oh and I did read that long thread. My gosh- the porcelain style finish and that tapestry!!!! What a wonderful combination of imagination and talent. The work seems to flow off his fingers like he has some gene most mortals didn't get.
John
I'm not sure how I feel about the use of alternating layers of hairspray and acrylic, I find myself wondering about the longevity of a paint job with multiple layers of incompatible varnish-- I don't want my paintwork to slowly dissolve like an Albert Pinkham Ryder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pinkham_Ryder). I also recall all the cracking issues with first-generation hobby acrylics and the incompatibilities between brands and different thinners.
The first time I ever saw salt used as a resist was in a Finescale Modeler some years back, as I recall, the author used a simple mist of water, which held the salt grains well enough between the solubility of the salt and the surface tension of the water. The water evaporates away after a short time, then you can shoot the next color coat. No weird chemicals beyong NaCl and DHMO.
Does hairspray simply speed up the process, since there's no wait for the mist of water to dry?
No, The hairspray has nothing to do with the salt.
Somehow through repetative postings on the net by less skilled modelers or people that don't grasp the concepts (think of the kids game of "telephone" or the propensity of some modelers to copy others like sheep without thought or understanding), the "Hairspray Method" and the "Salt Method" have, primarily on RR forums, been grouped into one "Hairspray & Salt Method" .
These were and are two distinctly different methods, and they provide distinctively different results and weathering opportunities. They can be used individually, or can be used subsequently.....and yes, if done correctly they can be used combined......but that is not the way the methods originated or were developed. IMO 80% of the people that I have seen that try these methods individualy fail at them...because of lack of understanding and skill.......and of those that combine the methods into one 99.9% fail. Primarily because they are just plain ignorant, unskilled, don't know what they are doing, and don't understand the principles, intent and purpose of the INDIVIDUAL methods.
You are correct about the "salt Method"....a slightly damp surface, is what is/should be, used to make the salt adhere, any more and the salt begins to disolve and potentially adversely affect the paint and surface finish in that area/around each grain. Equally it should be noted that most peole that try to use this method (at least in RR forums) also apply the subsequent paint far too heavy (again lack of knowledge/skill), which will cause the grains to disolve and the surface finish, effect, and appearance to be very poor or mediocre at best.
These are not tricky methods.....it really just takes a moment to understand them, some patience to think and visualize the end result, and then see which one (or both), is best suited, applied and executed, to achieve and create the necessary finish.
Marc
The salt and H20 makes sense while the addition of the hairspray did not. Marc your clarification was helpful.
Could you point us to the definitive (or most understandable) thread on the hairspray method?
Is it similar to the rubber cement technique?
Thanks, John
Thanks for the clarification, Marc. Glad I was sort of on the right track. I'm still not grokking the hairspray thing fully, but I've made it this far okay, so I suppose I'll live. :)
Off to do more reading . . . .
I use a small very fine spray bottle that I purloined from my wife's hair-care collection, to spray a very fine mist of water on the object to receive the salt. Distilled water seems to work best, especially if, like here in the mountains, your water is rich in iron and other minerals which can leave their own unwanted deposits.
I also grind up the salt crystals in a basic mortar & pestle to vary the size and shape. For the Heywood wheel http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1086.15 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1086.15) I used two salt treatments: the first after spraying the base rust coat. Then I sprayed a thin, lighter rust tone glaze over the base coat and the salt. Once dry, I removed the salt. Then I applied another layer of salt and sprayed a third thin glaze, a slightly different rust tone. After removing the second salt treatment, I finished up the weathering with assorted powders and rust particles.
Marc is right... a major factor is keeping the over-salt coats very thin. I spray mine like translucent glazes, keeping the end result subtle. Otherwise, it ends up looking like a dog's breakfast...
Paul
Thanks for the hints-- I'd like to avoid the dreaded California Roundover as much as possible.
This is a California Roundover Free Zone... no namby-pamby design or construction allowed... ;)
Paul
Quote from: Hector Bell on November 04, 2010, 04:57:01 AM
Seems a damned shame that the skills exhibited on that sci-fi forum, which I take it is English, aren't
displayed in the British model railway world or even just the non military (fantasy or otherwise) world.
Nope. CMON is based in Georgia. (I even have a few things (http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/Bexley) there!) (Space Marines, however. are the product of an English company.)
John the hairspray method is very much like the rubber cement method. Just a different resist material and removal technique.
Here is what I have done hairspray wise:
Testor's flat black primer (spraycan) dry overnite min.
Coat of Treseme Tres 2 extra hold aerosol hairspray dry 5 min.
Coat of Dullcoat sealer dry 5 min *
Polly Scale acrylic white mix airbrushed on
Quick dry with hair dryer-can create crackle effect.*
Chip about 15 min after airbrushing with damp toothpick, short stiff brush dipped in water... paint softens and can be removed at will.
I added some times to this. All approx. and not super critical. You do need to start chipping fairly soon after the paint is applied.
I use the flat black as a base since it is one paint that sprays nice from the can and sets up fast. The only downside is the need to color the chips afterwards (powders N gwosh), but the black is a good starting point. Really most any undercoat will work if you let it dry thoroughly. If you airbrush the undercoat, you can choose a more brown color if you like.
I would do a test piece to get a feel for the hairspray technique. It takes some patience to do the chipping-it takes a bit of time for the water to soften the paint enough so it chips. But if it gets too wet, a lot of paint will come off, so keep the water local to the chipping area.
*optional steps
In brief:
Undercoat (color that will be exposed)
Hairspray coat
Overcoat (color that will be chipped)
Chips Ahoy
There are of course, many alternate methods to try.
Thanks Chuck. It seems like the salt method is kind of automatic in that you get the basic effect immediately upon the water rinse. With hairspray one has to work at it but the results are very controllable.
I will try all this soon.
John
Good info Chuck!
As a rookie i may give it a try!
thanks for sharing..........
philip