Before I got into building and finishing the FCALV 1/32 laser car/coach kits, I thought I better familiarixze myself with the laser cut MDF material. I have never worked in this stuff, and there are several ideas I have about how I want to approah it....so I built these two samall bench kits from the company.
The idea was to build one as weathred and old...sort of the kind you find in an old abandoned european railway station, or sitting somewhere in the quiet, little known corner of a park....and the other was to be built as "new"
I had Planned to do these as a quick "One night build" project...but didn't quite make it.
The kit is nice and cleanly cut, the parts require minimal to no clean-up, and are easy to fit and assemble.
The MDF has a very slight surface texture...sort of like Strathmore art board...this can be left as is (which works great for a somewhat cast-iron texture on the leg parts)....or it can easily be sanded smooth, as I decided to do for the wood surfaces.
The image below shows an original kit piece at the top, the middle piece is after sanding with 800 grit sandpaper, and the bottom piece is after some "graining", staining and weathering, to give the appearance of old wood.
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These two images show the basic appearance of the kit (all parts are just held in place by fit). I decided to add some additional detail by adding a piece of .033 brass rod through the predrilled holes on the seat braces, and adding .023 dia. x .010 fastener heads to the seat slats.
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For the "new" version of the bench I decided to experiment by sealing/priming the sub assemblies with Mr. Surfacer 1200, in preparation for painting.
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Hopefully I can get it painted this weekend.
....in the meantime, here are some photos of the weathered version.
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Cheers,
Marc
Marc, the weathered bench looks like it been sitting out side for 30 years. the finish look's GREAT. Craig Mt, Clemens. Mich
That looks great, Marc.
Nice job on the weathering. How'd you do it?
Thanks guys, nice new learning experience. Was also nice to do something at the bench again.
Quote from: Ken Hamilton on August 15, 2009, 09:42:34 PM
Nice job on the weathering. How'd you do it?
Ha!....hmmm....well....let's see.....
Not having dealt with this material, but being familiar with issues in 1:1 construction MDF, my biggest concern was moisture absorption, and chipping-out.
After the sanding, I took an Xacto with a brand new blade (important for scribing this material), and scored a few "grain lines lengthwise into the boards. This takes some care because the balde seems to want to find the previous score line, so getting multiple ones took some care. This was then followed by running a Micro-Mark wire pencil along the boards in the same direction to deepen/accentuate the scores, ....this also will cause some of the edges and areas along the score to lightly chip out, which is fine for the effect I was after, but if one is not careful, this can quickly go wrong. I then deburred the surface and edges with a fiberglass pencil, and some 800 sand-paper.
Staining and finishing was a variant of the "Doan Method":
Initial staining was done with BIS Silverwood (since it is primarily a solvent/alcohol base it doesn't cause the wood to swell). This was followed by a wash/staining of Floquil "CN Grey" (I used oil based floquils, to again try and controll any potential swelling). This was followed by a light wash/stain of Floquil "Driftwood" (thinned "Grime" will work just as well). Once dry I randomly applied some Brown, Black & Grey Bragdon's powders, these were then washed along the boards using some Tamiya "Lacquer thinner" (not the acrylic thinner). The lacquer thinner had some of the same slow drying properties as white spirits, so while still moist, I brush applied some Model Color acrylic over it ( I am not a big fan of the Model Color acrylics, but they have some neat colors, and a green that fit the bill). this was the chipped/peeled using some Tamiya masking tape, till I got it to some semblance of where I wanted it. I then used a blow-dryer to accelerate the drying process, at which time a neat thing happened in some areas...the paint began ever so slightly to blister/crinkle/and kind of spider.....just like thick coats of enamels will do in real life...once dry, I came back in and did some touch-up with Silverwood in some of the exposed wood areas, and then added in some "positive chipping" by adding flakes/areas of paint and thickening some of the existing areas of paint by adding the acrylic color. This positive chipping also gave a slight bit of color variation to the paint areas because it was applied after the SW touch-up (which caused some of the original paint to darken/discolor).
....whew....that's pretty much it.
Marc
Very nice Marc!! I know Daniel and talk to him a couple of days ago, we started some drawings for cut in MDF around 1 1/2 year ago for his own layout... never thought he will be in a new project with lots of models. Now, he is with other guys working hard with FCALV Models, and I´m very happy to see how it works.
I cut in MDF too, because is to difficoult to find thinner ply sheets, I have many of them, but have to buy in USA, so, when I need something, I draw what I need in CAD and then go to a friend´s home (he´s got the laser machine) for cut them.
Daniel told me you help him a lot too. Cool!!!
You should tackle these one nighters more often Marc. Great looking, finished bench.
I like this technique Chuck has introduced us to, putting acrylic paints over solvent bases not quite cured. I've found varying the waiting time between the application of the enamel and/or thinner to when the acrylic is put on produces so many varied results from peeling to cracking and flaking. Thanks for the hairdryer tip that you found gives even more variety in effects.
Marc,
I have two of the 1/32n20 coach kits waiting for assembly. One problem I have not figured out how to approach is the dark burned edges left by the laser. If I want to build a weathered finish with thin coats of stain they will be visible in some places, and if I try to sand them off I will give up some of the precision aheived by laser cutting. Have you looked at this issue?
/Lennart Elg, Sweden
gents,
it looks like Daniel got more people involved in gathering building experience and impressions.
With plywood you have the same problem of the discoloured edges.
As Daniel had not received more material from Argentina, I couldn't take some home after my visit 2 weeks ago.
The samples and different items I have seen look very nice, the only item of concern during discussions was the behaviour of the material
under several humidity conditions.
I took home with me a number of left parts from a lasered sheet to check the effect of several thinning agents.
several bits were put in the shed, where humidity is fluctualting a lot ( some stored sheets 6mm MDF deformed ) to see what the longterm
effect will be. A number of parts were partly painted on the surface and edges with Humbrol / Revell enemals in various thicknesses, with
a number of other pieces treated with acrylics in several thinned stages. This is a sort durability test to see how the material acts.
I will repeat some of it with a assembled model to check the effect of tension on the material's surface and edges.
As soon as the kits are in, I'll prepare a product assesment.
Jacq
Marc
The banch looks just amazing. I always draw my hat for modelers that are able to do such a fine weatherings in small scale.
I weather my large scale trains by real steam, oil, dirt, soot, rain, dirt, ... That's easy zu handle and looks great too :P
Bye, Gerd
Thanks for the kind words guys.
Chester: I do enjoy the "one night kind of projects, though they are more stressful than a regular build.....and I can't always get the detail and finish quality to where I might like them (of course this could also simply be a lack of skill)......the one nice thing though is that Marty can't give me grief for not finishing it. ;D ;D
Jacq: The moisture stability issue is an interesting question; so far on these two small projects there does not seem to be any deformation/change (and my model room really runs a quite a range of temp. and humidity during the day and night). I do think that if one is going to use water based/acrylic paints (especially if thinned with water, as I do for airbrushing) that it is wise to apply a primer/sealer coat of some sort. I was actually wondering (and want to test) using a very thinned oil based matte varnish (the kind artists use on oil paintings) and applying it over the parts prior to assembly and painting.....sort of to "impregnate"/seal the material. A simple "sanding sealer" like that used by some fine woodworkers might also do the trick.
For staining, I definitely would use an oil or alcohol based stain, just to be on the safe side.
Lennart: For staining, I find that these kits are not much different than any other laser kits......though they do seem to have much better (less texture/depth/uneven burn) to the cut surfaces than any of the other laser cut wood stuff I have dealt with/seen. On the benches I was able to very easy just sand the long outside edges to remove any discoloring and texture. On the inside edges of the slats I was able to do some (but not all) of the same with a small improvised sanding stick, without any loss of form/dimension....however most of the dark edge remained....on the ends (for the weathered version) I left the burn surface, because the slight unevenness of it did a decent job of suggesting weathered end-grain. (For the "new" version of the bench I sanded this smooth". )
All that said, I think that if one wants to do a stained/weathered raw wood finish on these, the best approach will be to do it with semi-thinned washes of oils or acrylics (so that the paint/coloring builds is on the surface rather than impregnated).....similar to the way that Marcel Ackel and Per Olav Lund do their wood finishes. I think the burned edged issue is the same with most any laser kit.
I think the biggest issue that modelers will have with these is the lack of wood grain (as they are used to in strip-wood and other laser kits) , and how they are going to go about ageing/distressing/graining the material to get that over-weathered look so many crave. (not so much on the coaches...as these were built differently in the real world...but on cars like the fruit and boxcars where they are plank type of construction)......this likely will be the discussion of how the trade-off of not having incorrect wood grain direction vs. how to get the desired grained appearance balances out. I don't see this as pertinent to the smaller scales like HO and possibly even O...as wood grain in those is negligible from a true scale aspect...but in the larger 1/32 scale, this could cause issues for some.
Marc
I got around to painting the "clean" version of the bench last night. I decided to try and have some fun, and experiment with using CM (Color Modulation) on it to try to accentuate it's shape, dramatize the lighting and bring out some of the detail.
This image shows the sub assemblies and some of the paints used for the CM. After the paint was applied, the assembles were also given a "filter" of Windsor Newton "Prussian Blue" artists oil paint.
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A closer view of the seat and back surfaces showing the CM.
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A view showing the comparison of the top side surface modulation and the underside of the seat coloring/modulation.
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...next, and last, step will be to assemble the parts.
Marc
The finished bench:
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M
Marc,nice finish on the benches both the old and new.
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Ditto.
They're very nice pieces.
Marc
Very nice job, thanks for telling us how you did the weathering and painting.
Jerry
TWO FINISHED PROJECTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Next you'll be telling me you ran the gas mech!
FWIW: I like the second bench, the finish on the first one seems too thick in my opinion.
Your right about the lack of grain, found that to be a concern when working with the strathmore.
Mj
The lack of grain in Strathmore has also been a spectre I can't seem to shake. But I don't know whether it's because I'm used to exaggerated model textures or because I haven't been able to come up with a credible way to model peeling paint and wood texture with Strathmore.
On the one hand, were we to shrink an actual board with peeling paint to 1/48 actual size, the depth of the raw wood below the paint (and the grain of the wood itself) probably would be unmeasurable. At the same time, we still might perceive a difference in the texture of the paint in comparison to that of wood, mostly in the way each refracts light.
On Marc's 1:32 bench, even though it's a larger scale, the paint appears slightly heavy and, to some extent, the wood grain itself too coarse. That is because we can do nothing to reduce the scale of real world materials.
So what's worse, overstated or understated texture?
While there is really no answer, Chuck Doan provided the only practical solution: Build to an even larger scale.
Russ
You've brought up an interesting question Russ. I think that to what degree we overstate or understate a texture depends largely on which scale we are modeling in. Personally, I don't think Marc's first bench is overdone mainly because what has been done would be less perceptible if underdone. I know that sentence sounds rather redundant but in looking at the bench, it just wouldn't be as appealing to me with less. I picture this bench with heavy paint because in fact, it had been painted many times. Hey besides, he actually finished something.
I agree Chester, I liked the multi-coat look.
Is a good meal best while eating or when your done?
Quote from: Chuck Doan on August 20, 2009, 04:30:15 PM
Is a good meal best while eating or when your done?
I guess that depends on how many teeth you have left.
Cool almost-one-evening project Marc. I agree, I find the weathered version visually more evocative even though the texturing appears a little heavy, at least in the photos. It certainly has more character.
Paul
Thanks guys.....Chester is correct in the look I was after of an old bench that had previously been repainted/overpainted many times, with that thick glossy paint they use for those things. The close-up photo does exagerate the feeling.....when just looking at it normal, I do feel it works. There are though things I would add and do differently if I were to do it again.
I agree though it is always a tough line (except for Chuck) of where/when to or, not to, add some charicature and/or more texture to give a subject more interest, read, detail and character.
Here are some quick pics that I used for inspiration...the one I really wanted I cant find on my HD.
Marc
Nother...though this is lichen and not paint......the paint long ago dissapeared.
Dos mas.....
M
Hello Marc,
Very cool looking bench...
cutting the material...hmmm
I do have a question about the laser cutting of the material as well...
Would it make more sense to cut your demensions/cut-outs just a little smaller/undersize (i.e. the width of the burned edges)
then proceed to trim/file/sand the remaing required demensions to eliminate the burned edges ?
okay sorry for the lack of knowing. :-[
ps: is the burning issue only with wood materials?
I ask these things why...( I am considering on purchasing a laser cutter and if anyone would know the pros and cons of working with them... is quite a few if not most of you guys here.)
(sorry not sure if this is off the topic... let me know if I should have asked this in another thread)
Mike