I'm at the start of building a shed for the ongoing Railroad Line Forum contest. No prize .. just bragging rights. Having fun doing it in 1:24. The constraints for the contest are just that the building/shed is 12'x18'. My 'plans' are for a brick portion that is what is left after the rest was 'chopped' .. and a wooden addition. The Sketchup pic below shows how the 'imagineering' has the brick structure chopped and bricked up. In the photo of the build you can see the 'cap' (the brickwork at the top of the wall) primered white. I had got as far as starting to tint the brick when I realized that I needed to add that cap piece so I could get the colors the same. I really hate waiting for paint to dry! The roof will be a flat tar and papered roof. Thinking .. that tissue brought up over the inside 'brick' will prob work .. showing the texture. .. ummm .. no wooden roof for the brick then.
Having great fun doing this. I wanted to thank Don Railton and Marc Reusser for the SBS on using foam to make brick and Chuck Doan for his Gas Station and setting such a high standard to aspire to.
Should be satisfying to see this thing come together. -- Russ
Yes, Ed, I like it.
Nice start Ed. Quoin corners would really set it off?
Philip
Thanks guys. Having fun here! :)
Quote from: Philip Smith on October 28, 2010, 05:21:05 PM
Nice start Ed. Quoin corners would really set it off?
Philip
Philip. That's the plan .. partly because it would look good and mostly because it will hide the corners. Were they just cemented on? Was thinking some cracked and missing to show the brick would work too (these would be decorative and not structural). Got some work done tonight coloring and put the roof in. That's just cigarette paper and black acrylic. Figure an old roof would be a gray with different shades showing tar applied at diff times? Repairs using wood, old bottles someone tossed up there .. perhaps a air ventilator ..
One thing I am still thinking about is the mortar. I believe that both Don and Marc used a thinned Spackle for mortar. I've seen where people use some kinda white/gray powder brushed across the brick, then the face wiped off and sealed with matt. Right now I'm leaning toward the thinned Spackle. Suggestions are welcome of course.
Oh .. there will be stone lintels above the doors and windows (to match the Quoins) except for the end of the building with the yellow bricked up door opening which will have an I-beam over the door (rusty of course)
Looking Good. I like the coloring and carving in this last photo.
IMO, I think the idea for using Quoins has sailed. Even if they were not structural, and only as decoration, Quoins are stepped/offset, and thus interwoven/interlocked with several rows of brick at each one (as the structural intent of the original Quoins was to physically interlock the joining walls)......I dont see how you are going to get a proper Quoin appearance witout a lot of work. Though probably later than your intended timeframe.....You might almost be better off using them as simple cast concrete pillars that have brick infill betwen them (a lot of stuff like that in the South American favelas/barrios).....then you can also use a piece of concrete or steel 'T' or 'L' for the headers.
Don't forget to also do the sloped sill...either in a cut/cast stone to match the quoins, or in a sloped header course (is that a also known as a "Sailor" course)?
Marc
Thanks Marc. Quoin then ... not. What I had thought about was similar to your description of the concrete pillar .. just a stone veneer on the corners .. but .. the cast concrete pillars would make a lot more sense. I hadn't even thought about the sill .. but .. yeah .. even with the windows bricked up they would have left the sill in place. Thinking .. if I make the corners and lintels cast concrete then it would make sense to follow with the sills.
Very nice so far. Concrete sills would look good with the concrete corners, IMHO.
Ed,
Just FWIW...here is an example of what I was talking about (the attached image is from a 1922 Architectural Graphic Standards book I had at hand)...now this is not the end all, and only way....these are just a few approaches for specific conditions/designs, other designs would call for changes (IE the quions sitting proud of the brick face, the Size being different, the thickness different, etc.)....but what it does show is how they were interlaced with the adjoining brick walls.
Marc
Ed --
Really impressed with both the carving and coloring ... looks great!
Cheers,
Dallas
Thanks for posting that diagram, Marc. I'm saving that for future reference.
The brick carving looks great. I would give the spackle mortar a try, because your mortar lines are very deep. It will probably mess up your brick paint job, but it might be worth it.
And thanks for introducing me to "Quoins". Never stop learning.
Nice job. Really a great job on the bricks and coloring.
Jerry
I like how that is coming out. I wouldn't get 2 quoins for what I know about bricks and mortar so I will just look and learn.
Marc ,
When you say " sailor" course , do you mean "soldier" course ? ! To me a soldier course is a row of bricks standing on their ends , like soldiers on parade , I guess , and typically used above openings . Either horizontally bedded on a steel lintel or in a shallow arch supporting the weight above . I personnally see them as a modern day detail as they are cheap and easy to do . In times gone by more time and imagination were used to get a nicer looking finish . I don't like them, and whenever I do a brick arch I lay a double row of headers . I'll try and take some pictures of a couple I have done at home .
Ed ,
This would be a pretty posh shed if it had cut stone lintels, cills and quoins . To me the corners would have much more likely to have been built with brick , along with the lintels/archs over the openings and the only thing I would possibly have in stone would be the cills . But even then I would more expect them to be of brick as well .
But don't let me put you off using stone if you want to , as I'm sure there would be plenty of examples in real life .
Nick
Here is a photo of part of the building I'm modelling at the moment
Nick, the 'history' of this building is that it's what is left from a larger structure. Everything else had been torn down long since and someone just used it. The lintels and corners etc. will prob be cast cement. That's the plan .. anyway .. that the brick structure was 'Orphaned' and then just re-used. :)
Nick,
No,......what you describe is also what I know as a "Soldier" course.....what I believe I have heard referred to as a "Sailor" course is like the direction/orientation the bricks are shown in your photo, on the window sill, and in the arch over the infill openining window. Basically a brick end, with the brick laid on it's side, to show a vertically aspected brick end.
Marc
Being basically .. clueless .. I found this on the web ..
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fb%2Fbc%2FBrickpositions.PNG&hash=32563fd5ed17becc960e7631fa143497e8bb0b51)
AH!...and there we have it! I was wrong....err.....confused. :D
Marc
Dang. Glad it isn't just me .. I stay confused .. reminds me .. Sun is over the yardarm .. somewhere .. I need a beer
I had always thought a line of what appear to be "rowlocks" extending the length of a wall to be a soldier course. Apparently they appeared about every eight to twelve courses. -- Russ
Managed to get a couple of pics outside. I really need to work on the correct lighting etc. I need to take photos inside but darn it .. hard to beat that natural light. Anyhoo. I threw together a base and 'concrete' foundation last night. Nothing is anyway near finished .. at some point I'll get to weathering more. Still having fun. :)
Thinking .. a roll of tar paper .. with the paper wrapper thingie .. bucket of tar and a brush .. gotta Google tar paper roll or somesuch ..
Looks better with every step. Very nice work on roof. So far it looks like what might remain after a fire. -- Russ
Wow, that's nice, Ed! If those walls could talk...they would probably say they're tired of holding up that lousy roof!
Quoins, so that's what they are called...would stone quoins ever be used with adobe/stucco? It seems every masonry station built in Mexico seems to have them, but what about a stucco building? I am laying out plans for an adobe/stucco station, and was thinking plain corners look, well, a little boring. The rationale behind this structure is simple construction, but one building the railroad invested a bit more money and time in.
And how about fountains...could you have two quoins in a fountain? :P
Ha. Thanks. Yep .. I wanted it to really look old without completely falling down.
I did a search on Quoins when Philip mentioned them. Wikipedia talks about Quions and they say ..
Quote"Quoins may be either structural or decorative"
... it continues ..
Quote"Quoining can be carried out in stone on a stone building, with stone on a predominantly brick building, or by laying brick masonry to give the appearance of blocks at the corner. If structural, quoins are usually part of load-bearing walls; if decorative, they may be made of a variety of materials including brick, stone and wood."
Seems to me that since they can be used purely for decorative purposes .. then they could appear on any building. Up to the architect ... and that's you!
Sorry to interrupt but ...
Verne, go stand in the quoiner!
Russ
:-[
The big issue is what most people tend to think of or visualize when someone says "adobe".......they all think that implies the sort of free formy type buildings with parapets, flat roofs, protruding log beams, and roundy plaster corners......an well, that is so very ignorant. Adobe buildings range from the simplistic style noted above, to wonderfully detailed and formal looking slope roofed structures. If I can find the time I will pull some examples of the latter from my reference books.
Adobe is just a building material....it's nothing more than a brick of clay made in a specific manner.....and thes bricks came in sorts of. sizes.
I had the opportunity to renovate a beautiful and architecturally significant 1920's adobe ranch house in Tucson.....it was built in a semi formal Spanish ranch house style..replete with deep verandas, gently sloping hand formed red tile roofs, and all the windows were the old steel ones/type.....but unless you actually chipped of the smooth surface plaster or tried to cut into the walls you would have no idea whether the house was built of adobe, stone, brick, concrete, or even wood frame.
Marc
Drifting a bit off topic, but here is another example of mud bricks in use:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/imrickndakota/sets/72157594461781611/
once again ed WOW. did you get over the flux fumes
Figured as bad as that roof is .. either the building has been abandoned or needs fixing .. so went for the latter. Not happy with the bucket but will do for now as a 'stand in' until I can create something better. ... still having fun. :)
Edit: That bucket of Asphalt Roof Coating has been bothering me. I am pretty sure I can make the bucket better .. but got to thinking .. WHEN .. did they come out with Cold Process roof coatings? In the "olden days" they would have used hot-tar and mopped it on. Even today the cold-coating process is I imagine mostly restricted to being used for DIY projects.
Finally found a pretty good photo of a metal 5-gal can. With everything made of plastic now these are pretty scarce
Ed,
Excellent work on both the walls and the roof - will follow along with great interest. Neat idea with the labels. Any chance of letting me know where you found the labels? I´m working on a tool shed in 1/87 scale (not for the contest). Have the rolled up tarpaper done but no labels.
Anders ???
Quote from: Junior on November 04, 2010, 02:54:58 AM
Ed,
Excellent work on both the walls and the roof - will follow along with great interest. Neat idea with the labels. Any chance of letting me know where you found the labels? I´m working on a tool shed in 1/87 scale (not for the contest). Have the rolled up tarpaper done but no labels.
Anders ???
Anders. I created the labels in Paint Shop Pro. I made them large .. then reduced them to print. Here they are ...
Fantastic! Thanks very much Ed........will post a pic. elsewhere on this forum when I´m done. If it turns out the way I want! ???
Anders ;D
Nice progress!
Good question about tarring history. I'm sure some sort of bucket pre-dates your example. Or a huge vat on the ground...........
Philip
Been busy working on my On30 modules .. got back to working on my shed yesterday. Working on the wood section. Have the roof to finish and some bracing .. then some weathering. Figure as crappy as the floor is the bottom of the studs has to be in bad shape. After that can start sheathing etc. Still having fun.
I like it! Especially the corroded floor boards.
One thing you might want to change is to add some rot to the beam underneath those rotted boards. As it is now, the beam is in such better condition, it looks out of place. It probably doesn't need a lot done to it, even just darkening it to match the color of the rotted floor boards would help.
Following with interest, this was one of the threads I was watching before I joined the forum
Ed, Just a thought about the tar roofing, whilst the original might have been done with hot tar, it depends when the "now" of the model is.
Timewise, if the repair is being done on the cheap since the cold process started to be utilised, roll & bucket dont look out of place.
I suppose it also depends on the ownership of the building, if its still in corporate ownership in a neglected corner of an industrial complex, corporate thinking will influence type of repair.
But, if its on a lot thats been sold off to a more smaller local hard up enterprise, economy & ingenuity rules the day ;D
Edit. dont know when the cold process started but I remember using it for a garden shed in the 1960s, it may have been a cold process, but it was certainly much easier to do in the heat of summer
Ed --
The new wood-framed addition looks great ... kinda hope that isn't fixed in place yet, as it looks like you still need to finish out the opening for that big doorway in the brick part. (Maybe I'm wrong there, but looks like it needs some trim or finishing inside that doorway as I'm seeing it here.)
Real neat project ... look forward to more of the crumbling disaster! ;D
Cheers,
Dallas
Quote from: Ray Dunakin on November 13, 2010, 07:50:35 PM
I like it! Especially the corroded floor boards.
One thing you might want to change is to add some rot to the beam underneath those rotted boards. As it is now, the beam is in such better condition, it looks out of place. It probably doesn't need a lot done to it, even just darkening it to match the color of the rotted floor boards would help.
Ray .. good point. I have intentions to rot some of the lower portions of some of the studs but that makes even more sense.
Quote from: granitechops on November 14, 2010, 01:49:52 AM
Following with interest, this was one of the threads I was watching before I joined the forum
Ed, Just a thought about the tar roofing, whilst the original might have been done with hot tar, it depends when the "now" of the model is.
Timewise, if the repair is being done on the cheap since the cold process started to be utilised, roll & bucket dont look out of place.
I suppose it also depends on the ownership of the building, if its still in corporate ownership in a neglected corner of an industrial complex, corporate thinking will influence type of repair.
But, if its on a lot thats been sold off to a more smaller local hard up enterprise, economy & ingenuity rules the day ;D
Edit. dont know when the cold process started but I remember using it for a garden shed in the 1960s, it may have been a cold process, but it was certainly much easier to do in the heat of summer
Don. Yep. My theory(?) is that the brick portion was once part of a larger building .. aka .. corporate. When that was built, it would have been hot tar. Seems pretty simple .. I've even ran across a video showing the process. There was a heater/oven on the ground and the melted asphalt was taken to the roof in a bucket to be spread. What is scary is that the older refrences I have found shows them using Asbestos. Check out this video I found - Application of Built Up Asbetos Roofing 1930 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaUuPfVmYhg)
I agree though that as bad shape this is in .. if ANY work was done it would have been using the cold process but again .. have no idea when it stated. I can remember plugging leaks in a tin roof with roofing compound about 1966.
Quote from: Malachi Constant on November 14, 2010, 02:27:25 AM
Ed --
The new wood-framed addition looks great ... kinda hope that isn't fixed in place yet, as it looks like you still need to finish out the opening for that big doorway in the brick part. (Maybe I'm wrong there, but looks like it needs some trim or finishing inside that doorway as I'm seeing it here.)
Real neat project ... look forward to more of the crumbling disaster! ;D
Cheers,
Dallas
You are 100% correct Dallas. Nope, not fixed at all. The wooden part is being glued but that, the base and brick portion are all separate. They were just put together for the photo. Yeah .. still have the double door, window and trim for the brick section. My idea is that this portion of the brick structure is acting as the fourth wall of the wooden part. Not really sure how in "real life" the two would have been joined - if at all .. perhaps lag bolts into the brick?
It's been a very long time since I've seen them but the tar used in the hot tar process came in cardboard tubes. The cardboard was cut off and the solid piece of tar was placed in the kettle. Found this:
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.demuroroofing.com%2Fpage2%2Ffiles%2Fhot_tar.jpg&hash=e74502f1cdb8de0750199ea283850c39f5ac88a4)
Nicely thought out and modeled , Ed . I'm sure you'll do well in the RRL contest .
Terry
Chester. Woah! I would be surprised if they still do it that way using an axe .. our nanny state would freak out if they saw that.
Terry .. I was supposed to think about it first? !!!! :)
Making progress .. trim, lintels and corrugated sheet on roof. Marc .. followed your SBS on etching the aluminum. Thanks!
Nice decrepitude!
The corrugated looks nice! Where'd you find it?
-Marty
I found this Friskars Paper Crimper at Michaels. Used some aluminum from cake pans. Just wish I had access to the right equipment as it would be fairly simple to make a set of 'gears' for different scales.
Ed a few years back I picked up a bag of assorted plastic gears as well as a bag of various pulleys . I know the pulleys were Tamiya "educational construction series " ...can't remember if the gears were Tamiya or not . The various sizes would be ideal for biggers scales .
Terry
The Fiskars thing has been around for a long time and works well for 1:24 - 1:20.3. Too bad nobody makes something similar for HO, 1:48, or 1:32 - 1:35. Some of the guys have made their own presses, of course, but that begs the question. -- Russ
Ed, You need to call the city and complain about this EYE SORE..... its dragging the neighborhood down ::) Craig
Re: Friskars Paper Crimper...
Can't one of you bright modeler/machinists come up with a way to make and market replacement rollers for this gadget, in different scales? I know a bunch of guys who would buy them for 7/8ths and 1" scales.
Carlo
Caro. It's just a long gear. That's it. I've cut 'em before on a horizontal mill. Thinking someone with one of those combo lathe/mills and an index wheel could make a killing!
One end of the brick structure is supposed to be 'whacked off' from a larger building. The reason that I have this little 'bit' left. I added that brick while ago .. slapped on some white paint then ripped and tore the foam (why you can see the blue). Anyhoo .. thought this photo came out nice
Edit: Dang it. Just noticed that I need to add broken bricks to the parts above the tarred roof. *meh*
Little more progress. The shed contest is up on the 21st soooo ... gotta get cranking (but .. I'm almost outta beer)
Hi Guys,
It is not necessarily fine scale modeling but Yogi has a lot of information on making corrigated metal and roofing, in larger scales, on his web site.
Here http://users.stratuswave.net/~wd8jik/
Later
Rick
Rick. Thanks for that link. Most of my modeling will be in 1:48 and I think it sucks that I can't purchase an 'off the shelf' item like the Fiskars Paper Crimper with 'gears' for that scale. Links like that always help with the "why didn't I think of that" ..
Finished the shed. Contest was over today. Wish I hadn't been pushed for time. Good practice though. View through door
Sweet! Lots of character in that old shed. The old ventilator fan is a nice touch.
Thanks Ray. I actually have a fan blade behind that grille. I didn't go any further .. like adding a shape of a motor since I realized that you can't see the darn thing. Darn it. Ha. I may play with LEDs later .. illuminating the back side of the ventilator might be interesting.
Please post more photos of the completed model including a couple of overall shots. It looks good. -- Russ
Russ. You wish .. and all that ..
Left side: The contest ended last night and I couldn't find the stripwood I had already stained, painted, weathered etc. .. so I said the heck with it. OBVIOUSLY (heh) the window had been replaced at one time and the trim never was put back. I followed Chuck Doan's SBS on making a window. Geeze! Well .. it DOES operate!
Swinging around to the rear of the building(s)
This is supposed to simulate where the brick structure was "whacked off" from a larger structure. The contest restricted us to a 12' x 18' .. so I had to "whack" ...
Ok. Around to the front
and a look through the door ..
I think you hit a home run , Ed .
Terry
Terry. I'm .. ok with it. I was stumbling along and realized that I was running out of time .. had to throw the ruck on and HUMP to finish it in time. Ha. I wanted to spend a day just making hinges for the door .. :)
Satisfactory. -- Russ
Great looking shed and "We Have A Winner"! Congratulations!
Anders ;D ;D ;D
Congrats, Ed!
Nice job, Ed!!
Jerry
I especially like the view through the door.
Add some "stuff" and an appropriate background and it would be very convincing!
Good job!
-Marty
Really nice Ed! 8) :o
I did think the corner pieces covering the brick perhaps need some sort of bolt head or stars holding/ inbedding them in place. Is it suppose to be angle iron or masonry? ..forgive me for not paying attention...
Philip