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Author Topic: And now for something completely different... 15" gauge in 1/2" scale  (Read 21994 times)
RoughboyModelworks
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« on: September 09, 2009, 02:54:05 PM »

For the past 30+ years I've been working in 1:48 mostly North American narrow gauge prototypes and the time has come for something completely different. For several years I've been collecting information on British industrial and light railway narrow gauge with the long-term view of building a small operating diorama in a larger scale. My eyesight isn't what it used to be, this getting old business is for the birds, and doing the level of work I do in 1:48 is requiring ever stronger vision appliances, which I find to be less and less enjoyable. I will continue with the 1:48n3 projects that are currently in the works but have begun the drawing process for this new project in 1:24.

The old photo below, taken ca. 1899, is the scene to be modeled.



It is the Belgrave shed on the Eaton Hall Railway, an estate railway built to serve the Duke of Westminster's country residence at Eaton Hall. The loco in the foreground is Katie pulling a couple of loaded goods wagons. The railway was built in 1895-96 to connect the Hall to a transhipment point with the Great Western Railway's Chester-Wrexham main line at Balderton approx. 3 miles distant. Total track length of the railway was 4 1/2 miles including sidings. Traffic on the railway consisted chiefly of coal, road metal and building materials although there were passenger excursions for shooting parties and other social occasions. My primary reference source is the excellent book Sir Arthur Heywood and the Fifteen Inch Gauge Railway by Mark Smithers, published by Plateway Press in 1995. The photos here were all scanned from the book, hence their somewhat less than crisp appearance.

The photos below give somewhat clearer shots of Katie at Belgrave, built in 1896 by Abbot & Co. to specifications set forth by Sir Arthur Heywood, a strong proponent of light narrow gauge railways. In 1:24 the boiler diameter is just large enough to hold a Faulhaber micro-motor which I'll use to power the loco. The photos above give a good sense of the size of the tiny loco: overall length 8', wheelbase 3', width over bufferbeams 3'10", height to stop of stack 5'11" - it's tiny even in 1/2" scale. The loco was scrapped in 1926 except for the frame which most recently was stored at Ravenglass on the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway.







The Belgrave shed is still in existence. The photo below shows it in 1947 approximately 6 months before the remaining railway was scrapped. It's a substantial brick structure, 20' W. x 39' L., at least substantial for the diminutive equipment it was designed to hold. I'm definitely going to need to talk to some of you experienced brick layers before beginning construction on the shed. Fortunately I have preliminary drawings of the exterior which I'm using as a primary reference source to produce my construction drawings. Unfortunately I have only one fairly dark shot of the interior which doesn't yield much information. I expect I'll have to resort to creative license on interior details.



Of course, if anyone out there has photos or more information on Katie, Belgrave and the Eaton Hall Railway, I'd be most interested in hearing from you.

Paul






« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 03:13:06 PM by Roughboy » Logged
jacq01
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2009, 03:12:41 PM »


  Paul,

  very nice.  if the boiler diameter is approx 2'6" you have enough room to fit a good size faulhaber. The smallest with 12V has a diameter of 8mm with a length of 20mm. You can easily fit one of the 2230 series. The length will fit within the boiler. Another good alternative is the 2619 flat gearmotor.  You can also get good results with a Maxon motor.

 Jacq
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RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 03:21:07 PM »

Thanks Jacq:

I have a spare Faulhaber 2020C0121S (same motor used in the Mich Cal Shays) which is the motor I intend to use. With the internal gearing, it's one of my favourites for small locos. It should fit vertically above the rear axle which will allow me to add sufficient weight to the boiler. At this point I'm thinking of making the boiler core from a solid brass turning, milling out a cavity for the motor. I have some Maxon and Canon motors as well, but they're too large and I don't think nearly as efficient as the Faulhaber.

Paul
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Ray Dunakin
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 05:37:31 PM »

Nice prototype, very attractive. I especially like the brick engine house.


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MrBrownstone
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 10:33:49 PM »

Katie looks hot...  Cheesy Grin Cheesy


This I will be watching for... Nice choice...

being the brick kinda guy.... I really like the engine house as well

Mike
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Gordon Ferguson
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 12:40:16 AM »

Paul,

You may find some additional info on these 2 sites, usually 1/24 scale on on 16.5mm track to represent 15" gauge railways.

There have been a lot of models made on this site over the years to represent Sir Arthur 's vision, try a search through "prototypes" as well

http://forum.gn15.info/index.php

http://forum.gn15.info/index.php

Gordon
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Gordon Ferguson
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 01:16:24 AM »

Paul,

these recent photos may be of some interest

http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/gomphus_photos/Real%20Railway%20Stuff/Eaton%20Hall%20Railway%2025th%20July%202009/

Gordon
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Gordon
RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009, 08:10:24 PM »

Gordon:

Thanks for the links. I wasn't aware of the Gn15 forum... I'm going to have to spend some time browsing through there, looks like there may be some valuable info. I know of several sites with photos and videos of the "reconstructed" railway and equipment. I remember discussion of this back in the early 90s when work was going forward on the reconstructed Katie (photo below). What I'd like to find are photos of Katie's reconstruction in process, but so far I haven't had any luck. I think they would be very informative. I must say though, I've never thought much of the reconstruction/remodeling of the Belgrave Shed (photo below). It certainly looks like a committee job struggling with issues of economy and architectural indecision. However, at least they didn't replace it with a quonset hut or some similar atrocity.





Paul
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 08:13:02 PM by Roughboy » Logged
shropshire lad
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2009, 01:13:43 AM »

Paul ,

   You're going to love me . About a month ago I was within a couple of miles of Eaton Hall when we made a family trip to Chester . I had no idea it was there . Not that I would have gone there if I had . But if you had made your request sooner I'm sure I might have persuaded the rest of the family to make a detour .
   I have been looking through my back issues of the British narrow gauge magazine called "Narrow Gauge & Industrial Railway Modelling Review " , bit of a mouthful, and so far have come up with one or two references . I'll let you know more when I've finished looking .

  Nick Ogden
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Gordon Ferguson
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009, 03:24:54 AM »

Paul,

glad the links were of some use , here are some more which are a bit more obscure and not so obviously linked to any searches you may have made 

 http://www.perrygrove.co.uk/History1.html

http://stevebennett.fotopic.net/c672671.html

I live not that far away - and in american distance terms right next door so happy to get any info I can for you - the gardens and railway are only open to public about 2 or 3 times a year and I don't think the next open day will be to next spring but will check.

Gordon
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2009, 03:32:25 AM »

Sorry forgot to add this one

http://www.greatnorthernsteam.co.uk/

These are the people who built the replica, believe they are still building a 7.5" gauge version so it might be worth contacting them for a chance of getting some build shots .

Mr Brownstone - you may want to have a look at this site as well - you can buy yourself a fully working Traction Engine Wink

Gordon
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Gordon
RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 12:19:39 PM »

Thanks Nick - looks like it might be worth making a detour too at some point, though I understand they're only open to the public on a few occasions per year. Makes you wonder what they're up to the rest of the time...  Smiley

I am familiar with the Review. I have a complete run through issue 31 but admit to not seeing it since. I used to write a column for it when Michael Brown was editor. When Michael retired, Roy took it over again and he evidently decided that my contributions were no longer require... Sad  Such is life.

Thanks for the additional links Gordon and I will likely take you up on your offer to get more info at one of their future open days. I was aware of the Perrygrove Railway site and their collection of Heywood equipment. I didn't know of the Great Northern Steam site, what a terrific place. I'd sure love to spend some time hanging about that shop being a general nuisance... Wink It's hard to imagine how they maintain such a business in today's economy but then there has always been greater support for historical preservation and reconstruction in the UK than there ever has been in this country. It's wonderful to see this kind of work continuing.

Paul

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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2009, 03:20:33 PM »

A very interesting choice of prototype, Paul!
I applaude when people choose unusual prototypes.
Its also nice to see an interest in “foreign” prototypes on the forum.  Makes the forum feel even more comfy for a follower of "foreign" prototypes like myself.

Speaking of British estate railroads, there was a really nice article in issue 168 of the Model Railway Journal on a layout based on the Sand Hutton Railway, an  18”  gauge  estate railway.  Ok,this paragraph might be slightly off topic, but I was just looking for a chance to do a little plug for the MRJ! MRJ is my favorite modeling magazine (I consider the Modelers Annual a book, Russ!). Slightly eccentric, slightly archaic, but a fun and educational read. And it never fails to inspire!

Back to the , the Katie seems like an excellent subject to be modelled in etched brass and maybe lasercut steel. A 1/24 model would be qite similiar in size and complexity to this engine in On3:
http://ljungz.com/trains/trains.html

This is a model of photoetched brass and lasercut steel parts for the  siderods and stuff. This project was a big inspiration for my own boxcab-project.


I am really looking forward to more postings on your project!

Best regards,
Håvard H
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Regards, Hauk
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RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2009, 08:06:38 PM »

Thanks Hauk...

MRJ is a great mag, I've always found it a wonderful source of inspiration, superb modeling and outstanding model photography. It's unfortunate that it's so difficult and expensive to get in this country.

The Sand Hutton Light Railway is another favourite. There is some good information on it in Mark Smithers book An Illustrated History of 18 Inch Gauge Steam Railways (well worth investing in if you can locate a copy). Also the Narrow Gauge Railway Society published a small book by K. E. Harley titled The Sand Hutton Light Railway that has a great deal of information along with locomotive and rolling stock drawings.

I had intended to spend this weekend working on construction drawings for Katie. However, as is so often the case (especially when you get older) life has a way of interfering with art so I made no appreciable progress. Hope to get back to the CAD program later this week.

Paul

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Ken Hamilton
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2009, 04:32:49 AM »

What a neat subject!  One of the most fun parts of building an unusual subject is the research.
I'll be wataching this on very closely.
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