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Author Topic: 1/87 barn interior shadow box  (Read 11153 times)
chester
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« on: June 08, 2009, 07:43:05 PM »

I will say from the start, if I haven't already expressed this, I truly value the critique on this forum and welcome any and all. What I've attempted here is a diagonal view of an old barn interior by building two adjoining walls and placing them in the viewing window of a box. Everything is strip white pine on a triangular 1/4" plywood base. The boards on the back wall extend down and are glued to the base. All of the joinery is half lapped.



The frame is cherry and fastens to the front of the box of course.



I did something rather daring with the base coloring in thoroughly wetting everything and then spraying PolyScale acrylic RR tie brown and grimy black 50/50 thinned slightly with Windex. In cleaning the brush out with water, I shot the whole thing again with the dirty brush wash and drained it off. I dried it with a hair dryer without moving it further. The waterproof titebond yellow held perfectly and everything is extremely solid still. The vehicles are there to view composition and I doubt will be in the finished diorama. The second shot reveals some more colors gone on the wall and more details placed around (just having fun mostly here)





The box itself is primed and a first coat of a satin black enamel has been put on but is still wet at this writing. So I finished the hay loft and final planted many of the details. This truck is a prime candidate but I'm not completely sold.







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finescalerr
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 08:05:18 PM »

How nit-picky do you want us to get? I see what appear to be some contrary-to-prototype structural errors but the overall effect, with the detailing installed, is excellent. -- Russ
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jacq01
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 02:20:08 AM »


   Chester,

    well done,  I shouldn't put more than hay on the loft, the way you put up the floorbeams  Wink Wink Grin 

    A pity you were in such a hurry to get the colours on, even in H0 it is possible to create a subtle difference in the individual boards of the building.  Very often the idea is " you don't see it " so I don't have to detail it (as it will mostly be covered)
  This approach prevents a good model from becoming an excelent model, besides it takes away a lot of fun and a change to understand what weathering realy is.
   
   A marvelous idea, well excecuted, with possible improvements.

   Jacq
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shropshire lad
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 03:58:16 PM »

So what's wrong with the structure , then , Uncle Russ ?
  Just curious,


    Nick
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chester
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 04:23:25 PM »

Thanks for the input all. Russ is right of course. Having worked on timber framed structures for most of my career, I should know better but have a tendency to be lazy in my hobby. Most notable of the faux pas is the lack of any jack posts at the windows. Perhaps my purlins are somewhat mis-sized and too few as well. I built the whole thing in an evening which explains much. I did try to follow the colors of my own barn built in 1830 and as Jacq kindly pointed out, the board color is more varied in the prototype. I will post more photos when all is complete. At present, the lighting has me in a quandary.
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jacq01
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 01:26:26 AM »


   Chester,

   try warm-white or yellow 603 or 803 smd leds.  In H0 they can represent individual bulbs or they are so small in size that
   you can put them in places not seen from the view box.

   Jacq
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finescalerr
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 02:00:33 AM »

Nick, you may know better than I about such things but it seems the upright posts should support the horizontal ones, at least some of the time. If you look at the walls and the loft, you'll see most horizontals nail into the verticals rather than rest on them as logic and gravity would suggest they should. Especially such heavy timbers. I think Jacq alluded to it.

On the other hand, I'm neither an architect nor an engineer nor a contractor. I'm just a jazz clarinetist. I could be wrong.

Russ
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chester
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 04:52:24 AM »

A point well taken Russ but in the case of most post and beam structures I am familiar with, those horizontal members are mortised into the vertical posts (not nailed). In the model they are merely half lapped but are viewed as they would appear on the prototype. Suffice it to say however that you are correct in that it is not a perfect rendition.
Thank you for the color suggestion Jacq. And thanks all for the responses.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 04:55:03 AM by chester » Logged

marc_reusser
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 02:21:03 PM »

Chester,

What!...no pegging!?...shame!... Wink Grin

Really great project. I like the shadowbox presentation. I also like the proportion of the frame size to the viewing opeing...and the angle of the barn inside. Really the only "gripes' I would have about it are as you already mentioned...the wood coloring (could easily be solved by staining the individual pieces prior to assembly)...and the other being the coarseness/fuzz on some of the wood (I know in HO at such close-up photos, that is often hard to not have show).  Oh...and you might want to hang that block & chain on more than a nail.....I think that thing would weigh around 20-30 lbs Wink Grin ;

Was your own original Barn sawn timbers or adzed? Sigh....must be wonderful to have structures like that on ones property.


Marc
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 02:24:34 PM by marc_reusser » Logged

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M-Works
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 04:24:27 PM »

Nick, you may know better than I about such things but it seems the upright posts should support the horizontal ones, at least some of the time. If you look at the walls and the loft, you'll see most horizontals nail into the verticals rather than rest on them as logic and gravity would suggest they should. Especially such heavy timbers. I think Jacq alluded to it.

On the other hand, I'm neither an architect nor an engineer nor a contractor. I'm just a jazz clarinetist. I could be wrong.

Russ

  Russ ,

    You are right that by and large the vertical posts should support the horizontal ones , but it is not always possible to do that . However, various ways and means have been devised over the centuries to overcome these problems . Usually by trial and error . One way , in addition to morticing and tenoning as Marc says , is to have a tapering notch on the posts ( vertical timbers) of about an inch at the bottom onto which the rails ( horizontal timbers ) sit . I have done this on my frame and if the joint is still visible I'll take a photo tomorrow , as it would explain it much more easily .
   However , the joints aroung the posts on the hay loft definitely are wrong , as there is no reason why the horizontal beams shouldn't sit on the vertical posts . If the horizontal beams need to be joined at all , this should be done over the posts so that no strength is lost .
   The windows could do with some sort of structural frame around them  to make them appear more solid , but that shouldn't be a problem to do .


    Petty nitpicking aside , this is a nicely executed shadowbox which , with a bit more work and maybe some subtle lighting , should look good on the living room wall .
    I have liked the idea of these boxes for a number of years , but have never gotten around to doing one . Maybe it is time to have a go ,

   Nick
   
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shropshire lad
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 02:23:59 PM »

Russ ,

   Here are a couple of shots to try and illustrate what I was saying . In the first shot the two side beams are just morticed and tenoned into the post and the floor carrier (the one with the moulding) , in addition to being morticed and tenoned , sits into the post by an inch or so .
   The second shot gives a better idea what it looks like .

   Hope I'm not boring you ,

   Nick


* Walls 019.JPG (89.47 KB, 859x645 - viewed 577 times.)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 02:25:44 PM by shropshire lad » Logged
shropshire lad
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2009, 02:27:13 PM »

The second shot


* Walls 021.JPG (74.51 KB, 800x600 - viewed 595 times.)
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marc_reusser
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2009, 03:33:20 PM »

OMG!...such wonderful Post and beam work....and then such horrific strand board..the horror...the shame!

M
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chester
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2009, 06:04:59 PM »

Lovely framing! I doubt that an old barn of my vintage would have had such care taken to make such beautiful joinery. Your diagonal notching of the beams into the posts (which is referred to as a fire cut here in New England) is only done on the finest of frames.
You are all quite correct in the support wall under the loft. Had I not tried to hurry through this project, I would have turned the wall around that would have revealed the proper placement of the horizontal pieces on top of the posts.
Marc, my barn here is all hand hewn material. I'm always impressed with what must have been very time consuming efforts to square up a timber with an adz.
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shropshire lad
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2009, 01:01:14 AM »

OMG!...such wonderful Post and beam work....and then such horrific strand board..the horror...the shame!

M

  Oh be quiet . The boarding is all going to be covered up with insulation and then lime plastered over it . Unfortunately economics does play a part in my life and these boards were nearly half the price of ply and as they won't be seen and aren't really needed , structurally , I can live with it .
  I hope you can ?

  But please , if it proves that you can't live with it , let me know and I'll change them . I'm, sure The Wife will un derstand when I tell her she can't have a new handbag because I have to re-do them at vast expense .

  Chester ,

   I've posted this elsewhere , but this might give you an idea what the rest of the structure looks like . There won't be any old rusty motors put into this building ,

  Nick


   Nick


* Oak framing 012.JPG (120.45 KB, 825x620 - viewed 561 times.)
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