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Author Topic: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)  (Read 49256 times)
shropshire lad
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2009, 11:44:49 AM »

Marc,
Its looking like another successful trial.  I have looked over Don's method a few times myself, but havent found any local suppliers of the blue/pink foam yet (probably would get it up in Melbourne ok, but haven't been bothered to make the 1hr drive for a while!).  Nice subtle hints of the moss creeping in...a bit "Marcel-ish".

I think this is the article by Emmanuel Nouaillier you are refering too, of another diorama I have a bit of a soft spot for.  Amazingly its in HO.
 
http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4083

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4084


Dan


   Dan ,

   The articles I sent to Marc ( as far as I remember) were a set of three from the British magazine Continental Modeller dating from early 2007 . I am collecting as many of his articles as I can find ( I'm up to 10 so far) as I love his work as well .

   In Britain the pink and blue styrofoams aren't that common any more , it tends to be yellow urethane foam that dominates . It's a pity you live on the "wrong" side of the world as I have a mountain of the stuff waiting to be put into my house and you could have enough to last the rest of your life and then some .

  Marc ,

   The wall is looking better all the time and I like the blockwork infil .You have got a good texture for the blocks. I am thinking of doing some myself so your experiment is going to be very useful .
   There are two things that would improve it for me when the time comes to do it for real, firstly some more lighter reds incorporated in the brick colours and secondly less mortar on the bricks themselves as to me that suggests either sloppy workmanship on the bricky's part or the remains of a previous coat of render(stucco).

   Over here you can still see brick buildings that were once limewashed but the majority of which has washed away over the years , just leaving protected areas , such as under the eaves ,with any left . I think this would be quite a neat effect to have a go at, using very diluted washes of colour (maybe gauche)to represent the limewash . There would also be small pockets of limewash left on the bricks themselves , making them appear a bit blotchy .

   Nick
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marc_reusser
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 10:52:13 PM »

Thanks Nick,

I agree, am still working out the kinks on the grout...part of it is due to the spackle collecting in some of the open pores. I also really want to play with the random coloring...however it is interesting, that there really is no one set type or coloring for brick walls.....I spent hours on sites collecting brick wall pics, and there is absolutely no consistency....at times not even within the same structure. Even here in town....every structure even when right next to eachother is different.  Roll Eyes

For some reason the spackle does not take "post application" coloring/staining well.....works best when pre-tinted. I might give the lightweight spackle a try to see if it works/reacts differently.

I am also interested in seeing how this technique will work with the "Precision Board" that was recommended to me. Apparently it's a much denser closed cell material...and it is meant for hand carving or machining....so the grouting may come out cleaner/crisper for newer, more intact walls. Waiting for samplpes. Will post an experiment when it arrives.

Marc
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lucas gargoloff
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2009, 05:17:05 AM »

Nice tip Marc, letīs try mine today!! Wink
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Lucas Gargoloff - Argentina
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2009, 07:34:39 AM »

Well, before go to work, try a quick test carving a piece of foam, stained with black ink, painted with acrylics, and finnally drybrushed with white. Only takes about 20 minutes to did. will do more patienly next time, but have to say... Marc, it really works!!!!! Wink

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Lucas Gargoloff - Argentina
MrBrownstone
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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2009, 06:34:27 PM »

Marc

very very nice!

I like the infill as well.

hmmm..  that reminds me... Shocked

Mike
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Don Railton
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 08:04:35 PM »

Marc - Coming along nicely.  I'm interested in seeing the results using the Precision Board. 

What scale are you working with?

Don

http://public.fotki.com/DonRailton/
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marc_reusser
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2009, 12:11:06 AM »

Thanks Don.....and a big thanks for sharing the method, and your results.

Hopefully I will get a chance to play with and do a side-by-side comparison of the Prescision Board and the blue foam this weekend. ..though as you may have read on TNGS, I have some trepidations re. the PB.

The wall above is in 1/35 Thats why I had to draw it out in CAD....couldn't find a correct scale 4x8 graph paper Grin.

One thing re. the PB that I didn't mention in the other post was, that it may answer your question in your thread/post re. using your approach in  HO (1:87)....I think the PB might just be dense enough to do that with.....I could definitely see it working in 1/72 and 1/64.
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2009, 07:01:07 PM »

Quote
I want to see how well it will work in a milling machine

Marc -

Seeing how nice your wall experiment is looking, your question prompted me to get 3 ball-end end mills from MSC - 0.010", 0.015, and, 0.030", the approximate sizes for a dressed 1/2" mortar line at 1:48, 1:32, and 1:16 scales.  I had some scraps of pink board laying around in the shop, so gave that a try.  400 rpm left pretty smooth grooves, better than running faster at 3,600 or 2,000 rpm.  Found that no matter what the cutter speed, the feed rate had to be pretty slow, which was contrary to my expectations.  Pushing the feed rate caused small tear-outs.

Didn't have time to enter a program for a large area of wall, so just made a small area.  The results were nice, but in 1:48 scale, it's probably not worth the effort to use the mill - an X-Acto blade yields about the same look as that very small end mill.  But at 1:16, the 0.030" mill produced a wonderful concave mortar line that would to hard to make any other way.  I definitely want to set up a program for a larger section.

Securing the pink board to the milling machine table proved a bit tricky.  Normal t-slot clamps need to have large pads of wood or metal to spread the clamping force.  Even so, the foam compresses.  I supplemented the clamps with some steel bricks to keep things in place.  Probably best to cut the foam oversize and plan to cut off the edges that were subjected to clamping.

I have guests coming this week, so probably won't get back up to the shop (22 miles away) where the big milling machines live.

Mark
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« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2009, 02:57:42 PM »

Mark,

Thanks for trying it and the great info. Very interesting.

I was actually not going to mill the grout lines, but rather the overall builidng wall profiles/shape (IE buttress areas, parapet stepping, water-table ledge, window recesses and sill, etc.)...then come in with the Xacto and cut in all the bricks. .....now,....if my mill was CNC, it might be another matter Wink

I was figuring rather than using the clamps to primarily hold the foam, of just usung the 3M double sided mounting film. I made an acrylic bed/suface for the mill so that I can mount things in this manner, and since the feed rate needs to be pretty slow, there should not be enough lateral force on the foam to shift/misalign it. Another option that I was thinking might work on small parts...especially those that needed angle and/or detail cuts is to use an asjutable milling vise. Place double sided tape on each of the Jaw surfaces....then tighten just enough to make the tape "grip"...but not enough to compress or deform the piece.

I was also thinking that a 4-flute bit might eliminate the chipping and allow a higher feed rate (unfortunately I don't have one to try it with).


Marc
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« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2009, 07:40:10 PM »

Marc -

the only consideration I can see with milling the architectural details is that the skin will be removed, leaving a more fragile surface.  Wonder if there are any denser foams available?

Mark
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« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2009, 11:05:00 PM »

Mark,

The Precison Board that I want to experiment with is much denser and more ridgid...it is meant for carving nad machining. Comes in numerous densities and types, with the 10# being the lightest and softest...but still denser and stiffer than the blue/pink foam......but I will need to see what kind of surface finish and textures can be achieved in the end....it might be too ridgid, and not give some of the "randomness" that occurs with the blue/pink foam.


Marc
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2009, 04:27:28 PM »

While I had some of my reference material out (for a real world project), I ran across these two pages and thought they might be useful in understanding basic brickwork, and some of the terms.

The first image below shows the most common and typical brick wall patterns, and joint methods. There are other variations on/types of wall patterns, as can be seen in the second image (and these are just a couple). The arches shown in the first image are also just one type/method...if one looks around there are several more ways in which this was handled.

A couple of other additional wall variations/methods to the ones in the first image are:

'Heading Bond"; this can be seen in the second from bottom example on the right, in image 2.

'English Cross Bond'; this is similar to the 'English' bond in the image 1, except that ith has 3 stretcher courses between each bond course, instead of just 1. (I have also seen the English Cross Bond referred to as the "English Garden Wall Bond")

'Herring Bone'; can be seen in the bottom right in image 2.

'Basket Weave"; on the bottom left, in image 2.

There are also additional types of joints, that are not shown in the first image,. These are:

Beaded, Grapevine, and Squeezed (also called "Weeping")

The joints generally considered the most weather resitant are the; 'concave', and the 'v-joint'.

Note also that bricks came in many different sizes, the three below were the most commonly used sizes in the US (noted below in inches in 'nominal' [meaning it includes the joint] sizes for coursing)....these are the "typical' commercial sizes that they came in.....but as with everything, individual manufacturers would often have variations in the size..even though it was sold/marketed as the same name/type as below.

Standard Modular: 4 x 2-2/3 x 8
Roman: 4 x 2 x 12
Norman: 4 x 2-2/3 x 12

NOTE: Typically, mortar joint thicknesses are determined by the type and quality of  the unit.  Glazed brick are laid with a 1/4" joint; face brick with a 3/8" or 1/2" joint, and building brick with a 1/2" joint.

Also of note, is that bricks that were used for paving, where they were to be laid tight (such as "sand set") withouth a grout joint, did not use the same types/size of bricks that were used for walls.  There were also bricks made/sized specific for certain types of paving patterns (layout).


Marc


* Bricks_1.jpg (103.59 KB, 502x698 - viewed 1042 times.)

* Brick_2.jpg (147.28 KB, 477x679 - viewed 1122 times.)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 04:45:47 PM by marc_reusser » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2009, 05:03:36 PM »

And just when you thought you might be getting a handle on it...here is some more info...some of it with some variation to the previous.


Marc


* Brick_3.jpg (169.51 KB, 571x711 - viewed 1332 times.)
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shropshire lad
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2009, 05:05:42 PM »

Marc ,

   I didn't see an image of Rat Trap Bond , or did I miss it ?

   Nick
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shropshire lad
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 05:08:39 PM »

Actually you just posted some images of it while I was typing so I didn't see them until just now .

   Nick
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