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Author Topic: 1:32 Diorama  (Read 23597 times)
finescalerr
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2016, 08:34:45 PM »

Water turned out to be a real problem, Bill. It tends to bring up fibers in the paper and the result is the fuzz Volker commented on in my thread about using paper for wood. Colored pencils tend to produce a grainy appearance; I've tried them.

Also, as I pointed out in that other thread, softer papers absorb color well but are delicate and get fuzzy very easily. Hard papers, such as Strathmore Bristol Plate, are more like wood but they produce a speckled appearance when stained. On this experiment, I ended up using alcohol, turpentine, and lacquer thinner rather than water. Even though they are noxious they were less damaging to the paper.

Here is the shack as it looks now but I'm not sure I want to use it on the diorama. I may complete it just to see how it looks but my current approach to paper is proving more trouble than it's worth. After I fix my photo printer I may see how printed weathered wood looks but I'll probably just go back to using real wood.

Even if the last couple of months result in nothing worth keeping I found all the experimentation pretty interesting. Sometimes it's worth trying the impossible just to see how close you can come to success.

Russ


* Outdoors.jpg (172.77 KB, 864x543 - viewed 1072 times.)
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Ray Dunakin
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2016, 09:09:12 PM »

That last photo looks a lot better to my eyes, though I still think it could use a bit of variation, and more color overall. Without seeing your reference, I think you're probably getting pretty close to the look you want, just not quite there yet.

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Bill Gill
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2016, 05:35:02 AM »

Russ, I feel your pain. One of the first areas sceniced on my small layout was a small pile of driftwood washed up against a stone bridge abutment. The driftwood was a collection of tiny sticks gathered over several months in anticipation of making the scene. The sticks had interesting shapes, but most importantly they had that special silvery sheen that you seek to reproduce. The pile looked better than hoped for against the contrasting flat grays of the "stonework"...for several years anyway. But overtime the driftwood seemed to lose its silvery appearance. At first accumulated dust was suspected, but a careful brushing and vacuuming revealed even less silver. The wood had mostly turned to the light tan look of newly cut, raw wood. Further investigation discovered tiny little critters scurrying over the pile and the conclusion was they'd slowly gnawed away the top surface of all the twigs.

I experimented with a number of colors and techniques to recreate the original silvery sheen with no success. I could get a dull, flat pale gray tone that was close to the overall tone of the wood, but not that sheen.

The temptation was to surgically remove the pile from the scene and set it outside for several months to restore the "real" color, though I suspected it wouldn't work on top of the stains and paints that had been applied.

However, there are also a few fragments of silvery old real railroad ties on the layout that have stood the test of time (so far). They are scattered along part of the right of way, representing remnants of old, torn up ties. Perhaps the little critters haven't found them yet, or perhaps residual creosote keeps them at bay. A few pieces were carefully glued down making sure not to get any glue on the visible arts of the wood because that changed the look. A few pieces were laid loosely on the layout, subject to accidental vacuuming up, but definitely keeping the sheen in pristine condition.

You've experimented with color printers before and not ultimately liked the results. If you revert to wood, what if you plan way ahead and set out the strip wood to actually weather and acquire a real silvery finish? That won't fade over time like most weathering solutions (except some India inks which don't create the look you want). Years ago a modeler did just that and the results looked great. You'll have to deal with warping and other contingencies, so make extra pieces, but it is probably the only way you will get the look you desire.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 05:37:25 AM by Bill Gill » Logged
finescalerr
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2016, 12:22:18 PM »

I suspect SilverWood will get me close enough to the appearance I want. I'll just practice on some scrap wood until the results look okay. Wood is far more robust than paper, requires a lot less work, and lends itself to more realistic effects so it should be a vacation in comparison to what I've been trying to do! -- Russ
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Hydrostat
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2016, 01:08:18 PM »

Russ,

I wouldn't judge this as a failure. But when I read about Bill's experience with natural wood I asked what was going to happen to the paper's appearance in a longer timespan. Paper tends to yellow and it doesn't matter (as far as I know) if there's daylight exposure to it or not. How would this change the stained boards' appearance? The approach to use real wood, bleeched in the sun is as interesting as difficult, because every cut will bring back the former tone. Isn't there a biologist or chemist amongst us who can explain what happens to the wood when it is fading to grey? Seems to be rather a process of losing some feature than adding one (which staining is). Maybe there's a way for an artificial aging process?

Cheers,
Volker
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finescalerr
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 05:39:13 PM »

I have seen no apparent deterioration or color change in paint stained paper and, so far, inkjet printed paper. The reason seems to be a deliberate absence of acid and other chemicals that cause problems. But I also have neither fluorescent nor much sunlight in my model room.

Anyhow, here's an interesting comparison. This photo is the final version of the paper structure.

Russ


* _00 Outdoors 7-20-16.jpg (156.98 KB, 1152x705 - viewed 971 times.)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 05:54:09 PM by finescalerr » Logged
finescalerr
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« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 05:53:51 PM »

And here is the same model I just finished building from wood and photographing in the same light as the image above. I colored each board with SilverWood and applied powdered pastel chalk to kill the translucent "furniture finish" quality stains create. (I ripped out the door after I saw the photo!)

To my eyes (and my wife's), neither model's siding really looks "better". Neither accurately approximates weathered wood on a full size structure although each has strengths and weaknesses. Also, while I've long thought 1:32 scale was large enough to look good in macro photography, I've changed my mind. Every imperfection in texture, color, construction, and anything else is just as apparent on the wood building as the paper (including fuzz and other flaws you guys have mentioned). Maybe some of you have wisdom you might share.

Russ


* _00 Outdoors Wood.jpg (152.65 KB, 1080x664 - viewed 1064 times.)
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Ray Dunakin
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« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2016, 11:32:10 PM »

For what it's worth, I think the paper one looks better than the wood with Silverwood stain.
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« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2016, 08:29:51 AM »

It's so hard to say, which one is 'better'. Both are good. Maybe the tone of the wooden one looks a bit more like sun bleeched wood than the rather yellowish tone of the paper version, but that may be a difference in white balance, too. The paper one for sure has better/more interesting tonal variation than the wooden one. The texture of the real wood is a bit more interesting like boards cut from a trunk's outer area (which for sure is difficult to replicate on paper), but close to being out of scale, isn't it? Could you maybe take a side by side picture of both items?
About macro photography: Close ups of dusty/stony modeled ground mostly looks strange because most types of rock/sands are somewhat translucent. That doeesn't help, but yes, I think each scale needs its own distance for photography.

Volker
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« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2016, 06:00:55 PM »

Okay, here's a shot (in the shade) of both flats. The only modification was to remove the distracting background. Maybe the color and contrast are a little more accurate than the previous photos although, indoors, they seem more similar than the image might suggest.

I still think neither comes close enough to the appearance of full size real weathered wood and their deficiencies make them about equal. The real wood has far too much contrast (because its dense and porous areas absorb stain unequally) and the only way to adjust that might be to apply washes of paint. That might also have negative side effects. SilverWood pretty well emulates the color of bleached old wood but lacks its opacity.

Honestly, neither result seems of contest quality and I don't know what to change. For example, maybe I used the wrong kind of wood (it's not bass).

As I've mentioned, my experiments over the past couple of months have been extremely interesting. Even so, I'm disappointed and welcome your input.

Russ


* Both.jpg (140.91 KB, 648x793 - viewed 877 times.)
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« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2016, 12:57:01 AM »

Russ,
you mentioned a fence with an appearance you'd try to approach. Take apicture of it in same lighting and the same perspective/scale distance as the models and again compare the three pictures. Concerning silverwood and opacity: does any clear matte varnish help? Or rubbing white/greyish pigments into the surface? I didn't try both ...
By the way:your last picture shows that your results in paper and wood are much more similarly colored.
Volker
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« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2016, 12:11:00 PM »

I rubbed gray and white pastel powder into the wood, Volker. It helps a little but does not tone down the color contrast enough. I plan to spray a matte clear coat on the front wall after I rebuild the door.

Wood is a little quicker and easier to stain and assemble, and much less fragile to work with than paper but, in this case, paper comes a little closer to the appearance of my back fence.

Russ
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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2016, 08:44:01 PM »

Far be it for me to critique but if you're going to rebuild the door the stiles (vertical pieces on the outside edges of the door) should be continuous.

And I think you have achieved a beautiful representation of aged (sun bleached (oxidized)) wood in your last incarnation.  What is appealing to me, or my eye, is variation.  ANY variation.  Your (my) eye flows from variation to variation in a pleasing way on your last incarnation.  Very well done ! 

NB  I would think that obtaining this variation would be very difficult with paper - which is by nature homogeneous.  vs wood - which has natural variability which would work to your advantage.

royce
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« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2016, 08:40:01 AM »

I like the silver color of the wood model buy the grain variation takes away from the overall effect.
The paper model if much more to my liking for the shading and lack of grain if only the color were more akin to the wood model.
Perhaps try some basswood to see if that makes a difference.  Even balsa would be worth a try.
At least we can learn from your trials.
 Cool
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Bill Gill
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« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2016, 10:36:40 AM »

Russ, You've built with wood, you've built with paper, now try clay! Look through these examples for inspiration Smiley http://christopherdavidwhite.com/index.php/portfolio/sculpture
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