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Author Topic: Logging Arches  (Read 25060 times)
NORCALLOGGER
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« on: October 27, 2013, 08:34:50 PM »

Hi all,
Have been meaning to get these built every since I finished the Cat 60's a couple years ago.  It has taken quit a while to run down enough prototype information to satisfy my mind about the build.
Anyway finally getting a start and thought somebody (besides me) might be interested in the process.


This arch is located at Collier State Park in Chiloquin, OR and is a modern (1930's) all welded Fairlead Arch with Athey Truss wheels.  I have no idea what the extra framing on top of the boom is all about, some kind of a later years adaptation for a use other than logging arch I assume.



This particular arch caught my eye because of its wide stance, look at the width of the cat tracks in the background, it could carry a 5 foot diameter log with no problem.  That width probably took some getting use to by the "Cat Skinner" before he quit hanging a track up, probably a good thing those Athey tracks were flippers.


Anyway I will get some build pictures up soon.
Later
Rick


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Ray Dunakin
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 10:25:34 PM »

I'm looking forward to watching this build!

Did you get pics of any of the other equipment there? Looks like they have some cool old crawlers.

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Chuck Doan
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 08:45:21 PM »

Should be a good build Rick! I'll be watching too.
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NORCALLOGGER
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 09:53:03 PM »

Ray,
I have taken lots of pictures at Collier through the years and took a bunch more on this last trip.  I posted a few over on LSC but they didn't stir much interest so I didn't post any more.

Anyway on with the build.

For some reason it seems like I always start with the wheels on most any build project, I think it is because I like playing with the lathe.  Anyway for this build I used ¾ inch PVC pipe and turned it down to the required inside and outside diameter and cut a shoulder in that the spokes would mount into.  Duplicating the first one 15 more times was a bit tedious but they all came out usable, well, 16 out of 21 ain’t too bad.



The “Athey Truss Wheel” for the actual wheel part has a 9 spoke layout between hub and rim.  This took some head scratching trying to remember how to lay out a regular polygon in a circle that wasn’t an oct or hex.  This layout works for any un-even number of points with all sides of the polygon being equal.  I can give an explanation of the diagram if anyone is actually interested. 



With the 9 point polygon laid out on a jig piece I cut .020 styrene to use as a base to weld the spokes to.  I decided to use a stock ½ round styrene shape as the spoke as nothing in a triangle shape matching the prototype was available.  By using the backer piece it allowed me to tie the hub and spokes together in a solid unit.



Well that's it for now, thanks for taking a look.
Rick
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Gordon Ferguson
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2013, 06:49:28 AM »

Rick, great to see you back building and posting.

Already reminds me of your crane build, learnt a lot from that and sure will do so again from this build.

Looking forward to the next instalment
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Gordon
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2013, 02:11:11 PM »

Rick,

I'm looking forward to your build of the arch. Collier Park is a great place. We go back to the late 1960s.  I used to communicate with Cap who started the collection. After he died is started going down hill with a minimum of upkeep.  I have photographed many of the pieces and have built three major pieces based on those measurements.  It was sad to see it going down hill however almost at the last moment it is getting attention and several pieces are in restoration. It has been many years since I was there but they now have a couple of rangers on duty there. A good place for research.

Bill
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Bill Hudson
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2013, 06:23:30 PM »

Hi Gordon,
Thanks for the nice words.  I have been busy building all along just not much that would interest folks on this site.  Mostly just "durable" builds that will hold up to some handling and the outdoor use.  Did just outshop my 3 truck Shay that came out pretty good but is only semi-weathered so of no interest here.

I have been following along with all of your adventures posted here, most excellent work young man!!!



Hi Bill,
I was never fortunate enough to meet Cap but have sure heard a lot about him through the years. 
Yes the park went pretty far downhill before rescue, which is surprising for an Oregon State Park as they are so well known for their excellent facilities.  But, the last 2-3 years has sure seen an upswing in care and growth for the park.  As you say they have rangers on duty as well as docents, and a fully staffed gift shop.  Equipment being cared for and restored as well as new buildings being built.  You should go down and see their new "dining hall" museum building its really great.

We like to go up and stay at the RV park across the road, great place to spend a few days visiting the museum, fishing and hiking, and running down old rail lines and logging sites.

Speaking of old days I went up there 2-3 times years ago and met Bill Roy and we would measure and photo equipment, and BS the day away.  Now there is a guy I miss talking to, oh well.

Later
Rick

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5thwheel
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2013, 08:40:08 PM »

Rick,

The last time we were there we stayed at the RV park. But it was soon after the snow melt and I got eaten up by mosquitos.  I'm now nearly 82 and had to give up my motorhome because of bad heart and knees.   It is a long drive from Eugene to there. I would like to go back up there again but the wife doesn't want me to attempt the drive alone.  I am hoping I can talk my son into taking me up there next summer.

Yes I really miss Bill Roy. We did a whole lot of work together putting out kits. I did most of his early castings.  We were up to the park a couple of times  and up to sisters and Redmond for horse drawn equipment auctions and sales. Every once in a while I find myself starting to reach for the phone to see if he can have coffee.  Was a big loss.

I started the metal spoked wheel arch. Made the patterns and built the wheels but never got any farther.  Maybe I can finish it in plastic.  I'm happy to see some one doing logging equipment.  Keep it up.
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Bill Hudson
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 09:27:35 PM »

A little more work to show.

After the hub and all the spokes are glued to the .020 disc they are trued up in the “poor man’s mill” to fit into the recess cut into the wheel rings.  The .020 backer is then cut out from between the spokes leaving a solidly constructed wheel center.



This picture is just showing an assortment of pieces that went into the wheel construction.



A set of completed wheel “rims” set in the track assembly and held in place with the wood block.  The track is an extra set I ordered when I built the Cat 60’s, they are not really correct for the Athey Truss Wheels but more on that later. 



Question; what glue, preferably a welder will work to attach Styrene to PVC?  The welders I am using, Bondene and ProWeld, will attach the pieces but they are easily broken apart so there is no true bond there.

Thanks for taking a look.
Rick
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Ray Dunakin
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 01:12:19 AM »

Looking good! Nice work on those spokes.

I use Weld-On 16 for gluing styrene to PVC. It's not a straight solvent type, kind of syrupy, but it works well.

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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 03:12:56 AM »

Rick,

Really neat project. Looks like it's off to a running start. Really looking forward to following along on this build. Like Gordon said...there is so much to see and learn from your builds.


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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2013, 10:09:43 PM »

Thank you gentlemen for the kind words.

So I'm Back with a little more progress. It has been a fun build so far, trying to engineer from pictures is always a little problematic.  I always find a few spots where I scratch my head and think "why didn't I take a couple more pictures or measurements in that spot while I was there?"


The “Athey Truss Wheels” did not have cleats on the track pads so obviously the “cat” tracks had to be altered to make them at all usable. I found that I could mount the track section in the drill press vise and hold them reasonably well while I ran them through the mill and cut the cleats and bolt heads off.  There was quite a lot of variance in the cuts because each individual pad would be held tight or not so tight depending on the part of the casting clamped in the vise.  I only ruined 3-4 pads but they are easily replaced and when all done everything had to be hand dressed with a file for uniformity anyway.



The completed “Athey Truss Wheel” assembly with the axle beam in place.  The tracks look alright on there but they are definitely not a reproduction of the original.  I just don’t feel that this project warrants fabricating a master, casting 96+ pieces, then assembling them to get a finished product that will look so similar once painted that not one in a hundred will know the difference anyway. 





Thanks to all for the tips on glue for the Styrene/PVC connection.  I was able to get a can of the Weldon #16 that seems to have really done the job.  I remember using this stuff several years ago and found that once you open the can the shelf life is very limited due to rapid evaporation.   As for using PVC pipe joint glue, well, it might work fine but I have enough trouble trying not to make a mess without using that stuff.

Thanks for taking a look, more to come.
Rick
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Hydrostat
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 02:16:38 AM »

Rick,

this looks good to me. I especially like the worn touch resulting from filing all parts individually. Are you going to burnish the tracks?

Quote
I just don’t feel that this project warrants fabricating a master, casting 96+ pieces, then assembling them to get a finished product that will look so similar once painted that not one in a hundred will know the difference anyway.

A lot of people are counting rivets, but maybe never have seen any used machinery in reality (or even worked with it). There are so many possible changes in the life of an object. So if you don't want to model one very special prototype or do the modeling for preserving, museal or educational pourposes you can make a lot of compromises. It has to be alright for you.

Volker
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 04:34:07 AM »


Thanks to all for the tips on glue for the Styrene/PVC connection.  I was able to get a can of the Weldon #16 that seems to have really done the job.  I remember using this stuff several years ago and found that once you open the can the shelf life is very limited due to rapid evaporation. 

Rick


Rick, do yourself and the can of Weldon # 16 a favour, go stick it in the door of the fridge.

Chilling it down just about stops the evaporation, the can will last for years if you do this.

Leaving it out on the bench, you might be able to find some in 12 months time.


regards  greenie 
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NORCALLOGGER
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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2013, 10:32:28 PM »

Volker,
You are correct about the transformation of equipment throughout it's lifetime.  Hard used equipment, and it doesn't get much harder used than logging equipment, can become almost Unrecognizable as being from a certain builder after a few years in use.  Years ago we had an old New Holland wire baler that had been rebuilt and repaired so many times it was difficult to recognize it's origin. 

Greenie,
If you think I would be doing myself a favor by putting a can of glue in my wife's refrigerator I think you may be very much mistaken Wink Cheesy

Anyway, another update, this project is taking much longer than expected due to the fact that real life keeps interfering with model building time.  I need to come up with some way to correct that, any ideas?

The angle arch was laid out and cut from ¼ inch Sintra and laminated between sections of .030 Styrene sheet.  In this picture I am drilling the holes for the “Athey Truss Wheel” axles before laminating on the edge pieces of .040 Styrene strips. 



This picture shows the Truss Wheels mounted to check the axle bores and the truss wheel clearances before beginning the edge strips.



OK, for a way to anchor the vertical arch to the angled arch I had to stop and rethink the possibilities.  My original idea was to just use some Styrene plates glued to the angled arch and drilled to hold the vertical arch pin bolts, but I realized (in time which is unusual) that this could be a very weak point in the model construction.   So, after a lot of foot dragging I decided that there was only really one way to do it.  Route out both sides on the top of each arch leg and insert a brass plate that would tie the truss wheel axle to the vertical arch pins.  This procedure though time consuming (Sintra doesn’t grind worth a darn) is proving to be a very good solution. 



This view shows the edge pieces in place but needing the uneven gaps along the edges filled with putty.  You can also see the brass anchor plates that will hold the vertical arch in place once everything is assembled.  After routing out the areas for the brass connector plates I had to cover the mess with Styrene “patch” plates.  I don’t think this will be much of an issue, if you go back and look at the prototype pictures you will see similar plates in different places.



Just a glamour shot showing the tracks draped over the wheels and Ole Hansen, the shop foreman, getting another photo op.


That's all for now, thanks for taking a look.
Rick
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