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Author Topic: Radio Control .... RC in 1/35  (Read 6316 times)
Gordon Ferguson
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« on: April 16, 2013, 04:16:52 PM »

Just to sort of prime the pump as they say , here is some basic information 

Nick and Bernard will be able to add all the technical & expertise stuff .... look on my contribution as miniature RC for Dummies , and I'm the dummy!

Les mentioned on the Marc's 1/35 thread the Freerails thread on this subject and that is one I used as a reference as well a thread on RC  on a 7mm lorry which I am still trying to find again ?

Equipment , I got mine from  http://www.deltang.co.uk/ and the owner/boss chief scientist , etc, etc is David ( who is the major contributor on the Freerails thread) he very helpful and patient .... well he has been with all my stupid questions

Receiver (Rx) .... includes reversible speed control 



Connectors



Pretty small, huh!

Transmitter(Tx)



This gives you  speed, direction control as well as an ability to dial how much inertia you want your loco to have before it stops  ...... who needs those brass flywheels?

Now I only ordered this stuff on Sunday night and it arrived this morning , so i am a very satisfied customer.

Motor various sites suggested gear headed motors in the 3 to 6 volt range , think these were first developed for video camera  lenses adjustment but are now used a lot in robotics and in comparison to high end electric motors used by the railroad fraternity are dirt cheap ..... the plus side of a larger market. So I have ordered a couple of these one with 100/1 gear ratio and one with 150/1  .... I believe these may be similar to what Bernard uses, although his are of a higher ratio and probably of a higher quality

 

Finally and I think the key to to all this has been the development of LiPo batteries , again these are on order and I have picked a few of different mAh and sizes, but here is one example

 

This is a 250mAh one which if my calculations are right should give me at least a couple of hours of running time between charges and its size ... its a massive 24 x 19 x 5 mm.

So that is all the basic equipment , well it will need some more wire added ,etc but you know what I mean.

Please don't ask me any technical questions because I will not know the answer ..... Nick and Bernard can cover those areas and will probably point out that I have missed or miss-understood something very basic

I can just about handle red to red , black to black.

So will let you know when progress is made, but the thought of not having to wire up track and deal with polarity issues, pick-up, etc is a bit exciting.     

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Gordon
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 04:27:54 PM »

Red to red , black to black what ? You obviously know more on the subject than me . I just play with the trains . Bernard is the clever one around here .

   Looking forward to seeing what you do with yours .

   Nick
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NORCALLOGGER
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 05:36:11 PM »

Gordon,

That is cool that the downsizing of electronics has reached a point that they can be used in the smaller scales.
At 3-6 volts how much train do you expect to be able to pull?  I mean are we talking a few ore tippers or the Orient Express? 

What are you using for a sound system?

Rick
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Hi, I'm Kim.


« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 06:52:21 PM »

hi all
over the years i have been watching woodie green use radio control on his outside narrow gauge empire-mogollon railway 1-32,1-35 scale.
personally while it is great on a large empire i would like instead to have a really good digital sound system.digital sound is great for minium space large scale which more and more are considering.most modellers like building and effects and the running of one loco at once is enough for most.
kind regards kim
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narrowgauger
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2013, 07:34:46 PM »

Hi Guys

couple of thoughts on on-board RC and related issues.

without wishing to infringe the "trading" rules of the forum I have to say that the TMWA is the first fully integrated on-board RC / Battery operated system on the market.  This was developed in essence in very close cooperation with David who is an exceptional RC specialist.  We now have a proven system that not only caters for 1:35 but all smaller scales as well at an affordable price and a system that will challenge the dominance of DCC once the benefits of a completely "wiring free" system is understood.

one constant view that we hear relates to "how long is the battery operating life"  In short this totally depends on the size of battery that can be installed in the model.  However even with the smallest battery, using a efficient gearhead motor, in excess of 60 minutes constant operation is the norm.  Using the 300mah batteries we have regularly achieved 7 hours of use.

The second issue that I get asked all the time relates to sound.  In this regard I have to say from the onset that sound had and will continue to have a very low priority in the development of a succesful RC on-board system.  this was done for several reasons, including:

- keeping the system as simple & foolproof as possible at an affordale price, e.g. under $A150 for a complete strart-up kit;
- ensuring that reasonable battery usage could be achieved;
- to ensure that the miniaturised system would fit in the smallest possible space.
- most importantly however the primary reason relates to the impressive lack of quality in on-board sound.  in this context I would suggest that the following factors be considered:

a) there are certain factors in model building that cannot be miniaturised including water & sound.  the basis problem in "miniaturising" sound is that there is a serious disconnect between what the ear hears and what the eye sees.  a model 2 meters away still sounds like the model immediately in front of the viewer contrary to our perceived notion that there should be a difference.

b) the doppler effect, which is essential in our hearing of sound in all vehicles in motion is completely missing. Even the excellent (for the time) PFM system could not fix this with their Echo speakers.  Osynth Sound from Europe managed to at least replicate correct sounds for individual engines (albeit at great cost exceeding 1000 Euro's) but still relied on remote speakers to get a reasonable quality.  reliance on on-board miniature speakers simply did not work.

c) a survey of model railroaders who use sound and discussions with 2 US based suppliers of sound systems confirmed our understanding that the majority of users only used the sound system when guests were on the scene and then only for a very short periods.  the main reason for switching off the system was due to the fact that sound is very tiring and becomes a real pain in the backside after a short while.  This is entirely in line with the factors set out above.

hope this helps to further the debate on radio control etc

BernardS
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narrowgauger
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2013, 07:44:16 PM »

Rick,

"how much can it pull" is a question that needs to relate to the contact between the wheels & rails and the weight of the locomotive, not the use of RC. Also critical is the quality of the track, curve radii etc.  One interesting point of RC control on-board power is that since we do not need clean track as is the case in 12v track power including all DCC systems is that the "dirty track" significantly increases traction.

our 3v motored 180:1 with a solid brass chassis will pull comfortably 10 standard HO boxcars on level track.  that is with a locomotive with 2 axles and under 70mm in length.  On our test track at the ANGC we demonstrated that the yellow loco was able to climb a 45 degree slope (yes, that is corret 45 degrees)

ultimately pulling power is not a factor of voltage, but rather a factor of motor efficiency, gearing and a quality chassis.

BernardS
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Krusty
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 04:48:23 AM »

Quote
that is one I used as a reference as well a thread on RC  on a 7mm lorry which I am still trying to find again ?

This one?

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/18108-radio-controlled-road-vehicle/
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Kevin Crosado

"Caroline Wheeler's birthday present was made from the skins of dead Jim Morrisons
That's why it smelt so bad"
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 05:51:39 PM »

Bernard,

I have been using on board battery, AirWire RC, and Phoenix Sound in my locomotives for the last 5-6 years and am well aware of the items/issues that you bring up in your post.  I must disagree with you on your blanket statements of the use of sound.  In a closed environment such as a 10 foot by 10 foot train room I will agree with your view but in an outdoor setting when the trains are approaching from or receding to  points 100 to 200 feet away a quality sound system preforms very well.

As for "how much can it pull"  I was just mildly curious as to what kind of performance you were expecting from such small batteries and low voltages. 

Rick
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