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Author Topic: Steel cable transmission  (Read 102383 times)
finescalerr
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« Reply #120 on: April 15, 2014, 12:22:51 PM »

Don't worry about the mechanical "imperfections". The rest of the model is so perfect none of us will notice them. -- Russ
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Ray Dunakin
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« Reply #121 on: April 15, 2014, 02:40:30 PM »

How big is that gear? How did you cut the slots for the teeth?

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« Reply #122 on: April 15, 2014, 04:17:09 PM »

Excellent modelling and a truly original subject!
I am really enjoying this thread.
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Regards, Hauk
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« Reply #123 on: April 18, 2014, 06:07:53 AM »

Very interesting approach. Are you going to make white metal or resine castings?




Seems they changed from inserted wooden teeth to complete steel wheels in this picture.

Volker
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Peter_T1958
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« Reply #124 on: April 18, 2014, 10:34:57 AM »

Hi Volker

You have a very good eye for details and you are right: There were two different types of bevel gears.


early stage

In this picture of the installation in the early days, the two large gear wheels have broad wooden teeth, while in the picture below they have become narrower.




later stage

The smaller gears on the left side are most likely steel wheels although at least one seems to have inserted wooden teeth in the late stage (only slightly recognizable by the tooth necks on the inner side of the rim ->) But this does not make any sense to me ... Normally one bevel gear had metal teeth, the other wooden ones. If a problem happened that suddenly stopped the installation, the wooden teeth would sheer off.  The wooden teeth were easy to replace and were thus sacrificial.

Here a recent photo of my casting attempts. The master proved too complicated with its undercuts for casting in a standard way. So I had to fill up both mold halves with resin first and put them togheter shortly afterwards. Surprisingly this method wasn't too bad. Ok, there are some air bubbles (red circles) and a thin skin of resin. But I think/hope this can be fixed easily. Undecided




Thanks all for viewing,
Peter
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« Reply #125 on: April 19, 2014, 12:47:12 AM »

... or does all that even lead to the conclusion that gearwheels with rim-wide teeth are all-steel constructions and those with shorter ones have wooden teeth? Huh Huh Huh

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« Reply #126 on: April 19, 2014, 01:28:42 AM »

At least that is what I did try to say Lips sealed. Imho stability of wooden teeth would decrease seriously if only a part of them was sticking in the bracket. The combination of wooden and steel bevel gears would make sense to me. And so does the exclusive use of steel wheels in an later era when they reached higher wear resistance.

Volker
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« Reply #127 on: April 19, 2014, 01:45:33 AM »

I can agree in principle. What complicates matters is the fact, that the picture with the all-steel wheels is from the earlyer stage of this installation.  Undecided
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« Reply #128 on: April 19, 2014, 03:11:21 AM »

I see. It's going to be complicated. Maybe they went back to old fashioned technology from bad experience? This is why I tend to build what I see, not what theory tells me to do Smiley.

Volker
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« Reply #129 on: April 19, 2014, 07:04:53 AM »

This is an intersting thread.  This old technology is an intersting method of tranmiting power prior to electricity.  I did a short search and form some more information.

In the following picture,  the cable wheels appear to be connected by a differential.  This is interesting.  Only one cable would be required to transmit power.  Perhaps the second cable is  for redundancy or transmitting  more force than capable with one.    But why the differential.  The differential is not shown in all your pictures.  Was the differential on all of the towers? 




The information on the wooden tooth gears is interesting.  Do  you know if these were profiled?


More information was found here. 
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/03/the-mechanical-transmission-of-power-3-wire-ropes.html

Best Regards

Paul
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« Reply #130 on: April 19, 2014, 07:43:57 AM »

Thanks Volker for your thoughts. I can only agree here and I had to learn this several times. On the other hand we must try to analyze the construction principles at that time. As soon as this is the case, we see things in a different way or suddenly discover details we would never have seen previously. So I had to learn first, how early airplains were constructed before I was able to start a reasonably accurate scale model. Far too often one important part is missing on a picture or is hidden by some people in the foreground.  Then you have to interpret the missing item based on your knowledge.
I do not wish to offend anybody, but I am convinced that e.g. an aircraft modeler is going to be an really good modelshipbuilder after at least five to ten years.  Roll Eyes

Ok! Back to the workbench and restart once again...

@Paul

Here the original article:
Die gleichmässige Übertragung der abzugebenden Kraft an die Drahtseile des Doppelseiltriebes gewährleisten Differential-Kegelrad-Kupplungen.
(The uniform transfer of power to be delivered to the wires of the double rope drive ensure differential-bevel-tip lungs.)

The differential was there to ensure equal power transmission of the double wire drive. May be later it was no longer considered necessary and had been removed.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 12:01:45 PM by Peter_T1958 » Logged

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« Reply #131 on: April 19, 2014, 09:10:03 AM »

[...] On the other hand we must try to analyze the construction principles at that time. As soon as this is the case, we see things in a different way or suddenly discover details we would never have seen previously. So I had to learn first, how early airplains were constructed before I was able to start a reasonably accurate scale model. Far too often one important part is missing on a picture or is hidden by some people in the foreground.  Then you have to interpret the missing item based on your knowledge. [...]

I didn't mean negotiation of technical knowledge and historical context, of course. At Buntbahn we had some, err, interesting discussions about bended metal strips of a locomotive radiator grill, which have to have an inner radius of material thickness. Have to. But don't have, when you look closely at the chosen prototype. That's what I meant.

Cheers,
Volker
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« Reply #132 on: April 19, 2014, 01:38:51 PM »

Thanks gents for your interest in my thread.

Volker,
I understood your message, but I did not express myself well. Sometimes just the right words and phrases are missing, to make clear what one wants to say.

This is why I tend to build what I see, not what theory tells me to do Smiley.
Volker

..or in other words: Always mistrust captions! Wink

The other statement refered to a problem which I have encountered throughout all my previous projects. I do not know why, but I've always been attracted by modelling subjects that little is known up to now and it takes a lot of time and a lot of trial and error to gain useful insights at the end.

The differential is not shown in all your pictures.  Was the differential on all of the towers? 
Paul

There were a total of two differentials on the entire system; one for each cabel section: one in the turbine house on the left river bank and one on "my" tower No IV.
Research is very difficult because of the scarcity of information and the different construction stages over the years.


Here a small overview:


around 1870


1898


1899

Cheers, Peter
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« Reply #133 on: April 22, 2014, 02:01:18 PM »

Bingo! The world looks totally different again...


So to speak as a consolation for all my modelling madness in the last few days I was given a really good scan of "my" tower no. IV today. It's the only detail picture known so far taken from the opposite side of the river!



Although the tower is partly derelict (late 1898)  many details are clearly visible even under poor light conditions and great distance, e.g. the gears with wooden teeth (a), the all steel gear (b) and - of particular interest for me - the nuts, bolts on cast iron washers, which hold the cast iron "balconies" on the opposite side (c and d).



I only wonder why they aren't at the same level (c/d)? But this is almost a philosophical question.

Cheers, Peter


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« Reply #134 on: July 18, 2014, 05:57:20 AM »

Ok, it's hot outside and I am not in the mood for modelling at the moment. Furthermore from the modelling point of view everything failed in the past weeks. (Huh)


In order to get through the so called summer hole I went back to my painting trials as change of scenery.

Here some washes later. These are some dark ones, rusty washes will follow later, as I am intended to take only a few small steps at a time. In the few original pics, the whole installation looks quite dirty!





And here some trials to imitate moss and humidity.




Cheers, Peter
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 09:21:30 AM by Peter_T1958 » Logged

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