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Author Topic: Jacq's Logging Project Discussion  (Read 307455 times)
marc_reusser
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« on: February 27, 2008, 07:07:34 PM »

Jacq,

Figured I would start the thread for future logging discussion and info.

Re. your question in the other thread about the Pino Grande mill drawings, unfortunately I do not have a set, and in regards to the issues with Simpson, I can't help much. I have never had an issue....but I have heard many others have. He is also getting older, and from what I understand has had some family/health issues...so those may be affecting his lack of responsiveness.

In regards to the Pino Mill...Below is a pic of the log dump that I thought you might enjoy.


Somewhere in my stuff, I have copies of some of the original single line drawings/schematic plans of the Hume-Bennett mill (photos in Hank Johnston's books if you have them)....If I recall they include a roof plan, an axonometric of the boiler house, and a floor plan of the mill floorindicating general equipment locations....coupled with the images you could probably assemble a pretty good/ccurate/plausible model of the mill. ....just mentionong it because it might be of interest as a viable alternative to the Pino Grande mill. Hume-Bennett was also a 3' gauge operation.

This is a pic of the Hume Mill and other structures.




This is a pic of a log butt being hauled into the mill....it was too big, and they actually cut the opening larger in order to get it in:




Marc







* pinogrande.jpg (116.26 KB, 600x393 - viewed 1439 times.)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 10:27:43 PM by marc_reusser » Logged

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jacq01
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 02:11:14 AM »

  Marc,

  Russ Simpson replied. New blueprints of the Pino Grande mill have turned up and a review of the plans is ongoing. No plans are available at present.
 
 To be able to give this tread a framework, here some of my basic considerations:
 
 -  The On30 models received from the children.
 -  The long standing wish to built a logging layout.
 -  The positive results of a test with a working model of an unloading ginpole.
 -  The satisfaction from building in scale as accurate as possible structural details in
     a self designed structure and understand the developement process of the past.
 -  The room to built two smaller modular layouts in my 6.00m x 4.00m hobby room
     and still have a large enough working area.
 -   Plenty of time from December onward due to early retirement.

  To make sure that all idea's and choices will be as I have in mind, I normally benchmark my idea's. not against other layouts, but against factual historic information to be able to create a historic and geographical frame in which the layout will fit. This benchmarking process gives also a lot satisfaction. I learn so much from the information out of unexpected corners.

 Untill now I have been influenced by the following:
 - The warmhearted interest and advise from unexpected directions, an aspect rarely encountered in the European modelrailwayscene
 - Finescale Railroader issues
 - Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette ( articles about the Red Stag layout)
 - Terrapin Narrow gauge site
 - Chuck Doan's work and particullary his repairshop.
 - Chuck's mentioning of the CHB kits
 - Western Scale kits and Sierra RR workshop book.
  - Marc's website Steam in the woods
 - Hull Oakes photo's from Gary Katz

 
  I am attracted by the Pino Grande mill by the following : 

 -  The geographical isolated position and "footprint"of the mill.
 -  the drive and visit to Lake Tahoe when on a business trip to San Fransisco, Portland and Vancouver in 1976.
 -  Finescale RR logging, mining and industry 2006 -2207  photo's of the mill prior to planking.
 -  The book by R.S. Polkinghorn
 -  A catalogue from Russ Simpson with the plans of the mill
 -  The Sierra West Twin Mill model based on the Pino Grande mill.
 -  An idea how to incorporate the Pino Grande mill building with jackslip, logpond and
 workshop into a layout of 4 modules of 1,20m long with staging.

 Reading through the Pino Grande book and processing information received from many corners, I will try to put together an acceptable "business plan" of my scene of operation.
 I will post this shortly for feedback and comments.

 There are a couple of tempting photo's in Marc's logging site though, like the one of the Hume mill  or the photo of the logpond and the mill of the North Bend Lumber Company
 Marc, thanks for the hint on available details of the Hume Bennet mill.
 Your site contains so much information about a possible complete scene, that further research for information definitely is necessary before deciding the final plan for the layout.

 Rich,

 thank for the waterpowered mill info.  Very usefull addition to my library of waterpowered industries I have already from the european continent.

 Jacq
 
 PS thanks for the logdump photo. This must be before the Mich-Cal operation as the cable to pull the logs of the cars is still across the water. In the Finescale RR are 2 photo's of the same set up showing the dump and the steam winch.







 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 08:28:41 AM by jacq01 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 11:25:08 AM »

An interesting topic. The Hume mill has always been one of the more interesting ones due to that multiple arch dam (still there).

I have heard a rumor of a new Mich-cal book, (not another reprint of Pino Grande), but no firm details or estimated arrival. If true, it would be great!

CD
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2008, 01:55:00 PM »

Mal Ferrell told me Paul Beckstrom and Dave Braun are working on the new Mich-Cal book. So far they have no publisher. Considering the tendency of the authors to work slowly, the lack of a publishing contract, and the dismal state of the hobby market, we may have to wait a LONG time before the book appears in print.

Russ
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 04:33:30 PM »

Hmmm...guess I?ll stand down the anticipation.  Sad
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 07:31:54 PM »

.......... and Dave Braun are working on the new Mich-Cal book.........So far they have no publisher.

Russ

HA, HA, HA, Ha, Ah, HA, HA,......oh my poor stomach.....talk about laugh cramps.  Dave Braun can't even ship a part....what makes you think he can actually produce a book.......If I were a publisher I wouldn't want to get involved in this either...talk about throwing money/support into a black hole.  Heck, I lent Dave my early 1900's folio of 50+ fold out, full color grade survey maps (most 3'-6' long and almost as tall), with sections, contours etc,  for the entire proposed central american RR. These are hugely detailed surveys of the countries, with individual maps showing each section of the route, through all the towns and countryside from Mexico to South America...........Was that ever a big mistake!!!! Undecided SOB has never returned it, and when I left messages, he ignored them. He apparently wanted to borrow the info for a book he was working on.......this was years ago...and still no book....nor my folio in my mailbox. Braun is just a worthless P.O.S. and I wouldn't believe any endeavor he is involved in will come to fruition....



Sore Subject.........anyhow.....stepping off my soapbox, and back to the subject at hand.


Marc
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 07:40:49 PM by marc_reusser » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 07:54:23 PM »

That wasn't a "SOAPBOX" it sounds just like you see it as what it really is.
And your right let's get back to modeling, it was kind of weird not having you around for the last week or so.  For some reason you seem to keep the ball rolling here.

Jerry
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« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2008, 09:48:05 AM »

I thought Marc kept the heads rolling... Roll Eyes

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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2008, 06:01:09 AM »


 Marc,
 after your expressive "speach" here some more ( I hope) pleasant considerations.
 
Quote
Somewhere in my stuff, I have copies of some of the original single line drawings/schematic plans of the Hume-Bennett mill (photos in Hank Johnston's books if you have them)....If I recall they include a roof plan, an axonometric of the boiler house, and a floor plan of the mill floorindicating general equipment locations....coupled with the images you could probably assemble a pretty good/ccurate/plausible model of the mill. ....just mentionong it because it might be of interest as a viable alternative to the Pino Grande mill. Hume-Bennett was also a 3' gauge operation.

 I found some info regarding the dam:   650' span, 13 arches and 61' high.
 Looking on the photo's it is interesting to see that the track and the jackslip rails intersect right in front of the mill. Some more photo's of the surrounds of Lake Hume show a very attractive area to model . Can you send me some footprint and building size dimensions, maybe with some clever compression something attractive, alspite unusual can be developed. As soon as I have a plan made up , I'll scan it,  shouldn't take too long. The plans for the Pino Grande diorama are ready, have to make them presentable for scanning. I'll intend to show both at the same time for discussions on the pro's and con's of both set ups.

 Jacq
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2008, 10:32:25 AM »

A quick note: The Hume operation standard guaged shortly before they shut down altogether. Just in case you come across some Hume info where the track guage doesn't compute to 3'.

CD
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2008, 01:39:54 PM »

Jacq,

I am swamped with work today, but will try to dig through my files this evening.

The hume operation was just a spectacular historical failiure and hugely destructive and wasteful...even in comparison to other logging operations of the time. It has a fascinating and troubled history.

Logging in the Converse Basin was particularly destructive the size and weight of the redwood tree's often caused them to shatter when felled, and the equipment was not able to properly handle those that didn't. The method of using black-powder to split the trees once felled also proved problematic, as many of them would splinter, thus rendering them useless. It is estimated that the redwood cut during this period totaled 191 million board feet, but only 1/5 of the total trees felled ever made it into the mill.

I have only ever seen one modeler model the Hume operation, that was matthew Graff over on RRL Forums., and I don't really know why (I wont give my true opinion on why) but IMO H-B was a far more spectacular operation, and had much more interesting equipment and infrastructure........granted it didn't have the cableway, but it had a dam, flumes, inclines, skid roads, shays, McGiffert loader, etc.....If I were building a logging RR I would probably choose H-B, or Madera Sugar pine, or if I wanted to be real funky, I would choose Brookings Lumber Co. (another 3' operation, which I don't think anyone has modeled)...of which I have a number of images not yet on the site.


Marc

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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 01:51:19 PM »

Jacq,

FWIW, here are some photos of the Brookings Lumber Co operation (I don't think anyone has modeled this either...yet it is a perfect fit for the Bman Shay, the SW/CHB Dolbeer, and a shelf format layout).

...sorry for the quality, I just did a quick "batch reduce/reformat, so I could get them up. If you are interested i can e-mail you the larger versions.

Marc


* Copy of Brookings_MillAndPond_TS.jpg (64.65 KB, 494x337 - viewed 1104 times.)

* Copy of Brookings_LogDump_TS.jpg (62.34 KB, 507x302 - viewed 1035 times.)

* Copy of Brookings_MillPondwLogTrain2_TS.jpg (47.99 KB, 375x256 - viewed 1135 times.)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 02:07:41 PM by marc_reusser » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008, 01:53:47 PM »

Some more Brookings


* Copy of Brookings_Donkey#3_TS.jpg (85.7 KB, 488x342 - viewed 1089 times.)

* Copy of Brookings_ShaySideView_TS.jpg (69.46 KB, 507x367 - viewed 1030 times.)
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2008, 01:57:25 PM »

...more BLCo


* Copy of Brookings_ShayAtMillPond_TS.jpg (113.3 KB, 553x382 - viewed 1076 times.)
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2008, 01:58:13 PM »

....BLCo


* Copy of Brookings_ShayatLogDump_TS.jpg (83.08 KB, 507x341 - viewed 1035 times.)
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