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Author Topic: Stains and Flourescent lights  (Read 19617 times)
Chuck Doan
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« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2011, 09:27:32 AM »

This information was sent to me by Bill Gill:

Chuck, Saw your post on the Westlake forum about concerns over Silverwood fading. I don't know what its made from, but if it includes iron filings like the homemade vinegar and steel wood formulas it probably will fade/change when exposed to light like medieval writing inks made with iron gall.   

see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink (scroll down to "writing and  preservation" to see comparison of carbon inks and iron inks)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_gall_ink this link has a less pessimistic view of iron gall inks.

This is a topic that constantly floats in the back of my mind whenever I'm making a model. (Must have rubbed off from working a while in a museum, even though I wasn't directly connected with preservation of stuff),

I'm always dismayed by model RR articles recommending using a fine tip Sharpie to color the gaskets around windows on a locomotive or to touch up small paint chips. Those markers fade pretty quickly in bright lights and fade overtime in less light.

"Permanent" markers or inks are misleading because most only mean that they are water resistant, and have nothing whatsoever to do with their light fastness or not (mostly they are "or not").

I have experimented with some Pigma Micron markers (from art stores, A.C. Moore and Michaels among other places, though suddenly harder to find). They say right on the barrel that they are archival, waterproof and non fading. They come in several size tips and in a red, blue, green and burnt sienna brown as well as black. So far, so good.

I have some really nice  Pelikan Drawing inks in a couple shades of brown that can create some great looks on wood, but alas, they too are pretty fugitive. Even some "India" inks have iron in them and can fade. I have (had?) an older article from some old museum publication that studied the fade resistance of a number of brands of India ink because that was/is what many curators use/used to write I.D. numbers (on top of a small white shellac coated area) on the artifacts. The researchers found some black "India" inks faded and others were corrosive as well.

I think (but am not sure) that Pelikan (Koh-i-noor) India ink and Koh-i-noor Fount India #9150-D (a non waterproof India ink for fountain pens) are strictly carbon black inks and will not fade or corrode materials. There are also one or two Higgins India inks that are just carbon black, but I don't know which specifically.

I also experienced first hand a surprisingly different kind of "fading" on the tiny HO layout my son and I are building. A stone bridge abutment has driftwood piled against the upstream side of one end. The driftwood was carefully selected small twigs that had a beautiful silvery sheen that nothing else I've tried closely duplicates. It looked great for several years, but I suddenly noticed that the wood seemed "new", all the gray had vanished and the wood looked raw like it had just tumbled downstream that day (still acceptable but not what was intended). I knew it couldn't have faded even though that side of the layout did see strong sunlight in the winter. A close examination with a magnifying glass turned up some tiny little critters on the wood. They had eaten the silvery oxidized surface right off the wood! I have no idea what they were. I'd heated the wood in an oven before gluing it to the layout, so they must be in the house. A bit of rubbing alcohol did them in and so far all has remained Ok, thought the beautiful natural silver color has not returned.
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narrowgauger
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« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2011, 09:02:33 PM »

Hi Guys

is anyone still using the old Rotring India ink with ammonia formula for ageing / silvering wood.  I would suggest that this is still a good formula that stands the test of time under fluro's and other intense lighting.

have fun

Bernard
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marc_reusser
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2011, 10:15:18 PM »

Regarding fluorescent layout lighting: It's okay if you want the diffuse light typical of a hazy or overcast day. If you want clean shadows and the contrast typical of sunlight, though, you'll need incandescent bulbs (including halogen) unless there's something else out there I'm unaware of. -- Russ

You can probably get nice sharp crisp shadows with the Flour...but to mimmick the hardness of the halogen, you will likely need the type used by photographers with the 4 bulbs in a reflector.

....or maybe the 110/120v  1200w  5500K  93-95CRI  bulb that I saw the other day.  I think it was around $190.- per bulb...whatever it was, I nearly fell over.


M
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« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2011, 02:51:15 AM »

You don't have to spend that much money. A $25 halogen shop light can do the job for photography. If money were a problem, modified shop lights on a layout would do just fine.

Marc, please don't terrify the readers. They are gentle folk and mean no harm.

Russ
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Carlo
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« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2011, 09:27:57 AM »

Russ -
Do you have an online source for that $25 halogen shop light,
for great photography? Wanna share?
Carlo
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finescalerr
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« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2011, 01:17:58 PM »

A few years ago I found a dual lamp halogen shop light at Home Depot and remember it was very inexpensive. I guess the price went up a couple of bucks because I just looked it up:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202066789/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

This light is not ideal for photography but is adequate if you're on a budget. I shot several photos with it when I was too lazy to whip out the Arri Fresnel lamps. Many variations are available with both single and double lamps at reasonable prices. I mentioned that alternative to get youse guys thinkin'.

Russ
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« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2011, 02:45:59 PM »

Lights, camera, Action!
O.K C.B, I am ready for my close up  Roll Eyes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOLypkY8LMc
MPH
Loving those bright lights!
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Gil Flores
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« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2012, 08:33:36 AM »

Lately I have been experimenting with creating acrylic stains. The formula is very simple. Dilute the acrylic color of choice with an equal portion of water followed by the addition of alcohol at 20% of volume. My students have used this on a wide range of wooden projects with excellent results.

Searoom
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CN6401
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« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2012, 08:10:46 PM »

Guys, I think this might help resolve Daylight Light temperature issue.
The best way to purchase fluorescent lights for your layouts, workshops etc, is to buy them from an electrical supply company or lighting supplier, not Home depot or Lowes etc.
The best working temperature range is from 4600 to 6000K (kelvin) any brighter you will get headaches and/or sunburn, seriously.
Here is a chart to give you an idea of the temperature equivalents are. The normal tubes are 3000K-warm white and 4000K-cool white
http://www.mediacollege.com/lighting/colour/colour-temperature.html
Plus if you buy these high range tube be sure to ask for the clear plastic UV sleeves to put on the tubes to stop/slow the bleaching effect.
  
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 08:14:11 PM by CN6401 » Logged

Ralph Renzetti
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