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Author Topic: 1:48n3 Lima Shay #122  (Read 26834 times)
marc_reusser
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« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2009, 11:52:52 PM »

Speechless....simply beautiful.

I am also really enjoying and appreciating all the how-to and know how you are sharing.

Thanks.

Marc
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I am an unreliable witness to my own existence.

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« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2009, 02:58:46 AM »

Paul, you are a master craftsman and an artist -- a rare combination. -- Russ
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michael mott
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« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2009, 03:27:39 PM »

Quote
In addition I have a limited supply of Swiss Pear and another project coming up for which I'm going to need almost my entire supply

I know what you mean about being careful with special woods. I still have a billet of English Boxwood(illegal to cut) that I purchased at an exotic wood shop in the east end of London in 1972 I use it very frugally.

I am looking forward to seeing how you work over the beams.

Regards michael 
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RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2009, 01:25:58 PM »

Thanks Marc and Russ. Such comments from the two of you are compliments indeed.

Michael, yes boxwood is hard to find. I bought several squares back in the 1970s and still have about half of it left. I too use it frugally and save all my off-cuts and scraps, no matter how small. I had the good fortune to scrounge some scraps from a friend who was pruning a local variety of boxwood a couple of years ago. They're not nearly as high in quality, but still good none the less.

Paul
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RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2009, 04:14:41 PM »

At the risk of a wrist-slapping or at the very least a prolonged session in the comfy chair from Uncle Russ  Shocked, I'm bumping this thread with an update and shameless plug. I had started a series of posts on the shay project on the Roughboy http://roughboy.net site. In a simultaneous server and hard drive crash last spring, I lost the entire textural content of the blog  Cry but fortunately had backups on all or at least most of the photos. After requests from several individuals, I've started republishing some of the model-related articles and today posted the first restored shay article. I have the second article nearly ready to go and expect to post it tomorrow. The plan is to continue with the project as originally conceived and future posts on the shay's construction will follow. Thus ends the shameless plug...  Wink

Paul
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LaserM
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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2009, 07:00:40 PM »

I greatly enjoy following your project and appreciate the tips and techniques you describe in detail.  I am learning a lot from these and your roughboy.net site.  Thanks.

I just wanted to add a few comments. 

As you said, sharp tools are important but many people don't understand how.  As you pointed out, it is nearly impossible to sharpen anything properly without good jigs, stones, and techniques.  Ben Dale at Edge Pro taught me a lot about the theory and practice of creating and maintaining a good edge.  He has written several articles on the subject that can probably be found on line as well as videos.  He probably doesn't remember a couple of long phone calls from me where I pumped him for extra details and explanations.  I have been using his products and making jigs to adapt to his tools for many years now.  It makes a world of difference to be able to put razor-sharp edges that last on your tools. 

On another topic, I like your rendered 3D drawings.  I've noticed that not many modelers have made the jump into 3D CAD.  It is time consuming to learn and has historically been very expensive.  Today, however, there are ways to get into 3D cheaply with applications such as Alibre.  It is still time consuming to learn but there are new technologies that you can get into by making the 3D jump.  Specifically, rapid prototyping prices are coming down as are CNC machining prices for small quantities.  Some of us are working on techniques to replace molded parts with CNC parts economically for smaller quantities.

Those scale bolts are impressive.  I have been researching scale hardware lately for general use as well as for a 1:24 scale locomotive project a friend is working on.  I know lots of modelers have looked into this many times before.  The problem of scale hardware is tough.  Standard thread sizes didn't come into practice until the late 1800's and head sizes weren't standardized until the mid 1900's.  Since modeling historic items is the norm, supplying fine scale hardware is near impossible.  If you want a scale thread pitch as well, custom machining your hardware is all you can do.  I have a British friend that models Traction Engines and he tries to use the proper metal alloy as well.  However, it looks like for most of us that are content with brass with standard threads, a simple jig can be made for modifying the heads of brass fillister head screws to get the head shape and size you want. I have been using screws and tools from J. I. Morris Company for probably 20 years.  http://www.jimorrisco.com/  Of course, square nuts can be easily made by taping sheet metal stock if you have a jig for holding them.

Mike
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 07:10:31 PM by LaserM » Logged
MrBrownstone
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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2009, 10:04:05 PM »

Hello Paul,

This thread is just as amazing as the corliss project.. My cup runnith over with the wealth of knowlledge presented here...

(my wife was reading this thread and she seems to think everyone here Is or Was a machinist.)

She just can't believe the level of detail you gentlemen work in..

(thanks guys (all of you) "I think she is beginng to understand how/why I am so passionate about this")  Wink

amazing work Paul...

Mike
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RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2009, 07:52:35 PM »

Thanks Mike and Mike for your comments and compliments.

Yes, sharp tools are essential in any cutting operation. Many years ago I apprenticed as a traditional cabinet maker and the first full month of training was devoted to understanding cutting edges and how to tune and sharpen cutting tools, primarily wood cutting tools but the principles by and large are the same. We learned to sharpen by hand which is definitely an acquired skill requiring a great deal of practice.

I am familiar with the J. I. Morris Company. I've been using their products for twenty years myself. There's another post on this forum I believe which has a picture of some pedestal blocks that I machined to fit a Kodama K27. The blocks are held in place with 000-120 flat-head machine screws. The one drawback to Morris products is the cost. The taps alone cost a king's ransom and I find I have to be in absolutely the right frame-of-mind to use them because they're so fragile. I can tell you from experience there's nothing worse than breaking off a $50 miniature tap  Cry. None-the-less, they supply an excellent product and I heartily recommend them to anyone in need of ultra-miniature fasteners. I'll be reposting an article on the blog within the next few days on how I made the square head bolts for mounting the pilot beams on the shay. I'm still uncertain as to whether it was an exercise in economy or eccentricity...  Grin

I must admit I'm a bit of a junky for 3D CAD software. Yes, it can be exceptionally expensive, not the sort of thing you'd invest in for occasional work. The application I use (Cobalt by Ashlar-Vellum) is far and away the best I've ever used (MAC platform so my options are limited) but it is VERY pricey. There are as you say, other less expensive apps available but most are limited to PC platforms. I started using Cobalt to design motorcycle parts (which is a much more lucrative field than scale model-making) so it was easier to amortize the cost. It was just a natural step to start using it to study assemblies for scale models. The learning curve is fairly lengthy but if you are familiar with computer design software, have an understanding of technical drawing and an aptitude for thinking in three-dimensions it can quickly yield results. The main plus for Cobalt (at least for me) is the application is engineered for visual designers, not engineers. It does all the engineering calculations for you in the background, so you don't need a Phd in mechanical engineering, hydraulics or rocket science in order to get it to work for you. A real boon for those of us who are mathematically challenged.  Wink

Paul
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LaserM
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« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2009, 01:15:12 AM »

Paul,

I'm a Mac user myself but I find I need a few applications that just aren't available for the Mac such as different types of engineering software.  I've only recently started using 3D CAD.  I've been using PowerCad on the Mac for about 20 years which is an excellent 2D CAD application.  I've only just started using Alibre by booting my Mac as a PC.  Alibre has a end of version special going on where you can buy the standard version for $99 (normally about $1,000) if you don't mind using a version that will be out dated soon.  This 3D CAD is on a similar level to SolidWorks and includes CAM as well.  The modeling project I am working on is an experiment in CNC machining small parts.  The idea is that if I can eliminate tooling and programming charges plus reduce setup time to about 5 minutes, small quantities of parts become more affordable.  I chose Alibre because it is cheap and because I can generate G-Code directly.  It is a lot to learn but we are making progress and we have a machine shop willing to work with us on this.

The concept is to machine multiple parts out of a block of material.  The block is just clamped in a vice.  You machine as much as you can from the one side, then flip the block over and machine in from the other side.  Lastly, you finish the edges of the parts and they drop out leaving just a frame.  It is true that you waste more material this way but the setup time is very small, especially if the shop is given the complex CNC program. 

Mike

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RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2009, 07:52:10 PM »

Mike:

Sounds like you're doing a lot more sophisticated work with the 3D CAD than I've attempted to date. I mainly use it to do initial design studies, though with the motorcycle parts I did have some initial discussions with machinists on exporting the required files for their use. I've always been a traditional analog machinist myself but then I've never been particularly concerned with repetitive high-output of parts and certainly can't afford the investment required to move up to digital. I'd be interested in seeing what sort of work you're producing with the process. $99 certainly is an excellent price. I believe Cobalt is going for around $3G now, though I believe they do have several discount programs. I believe a couple of other like-minded crazies on here are using SolidWorks. One thing for certain, with the increasingly powerful software and the 5 plus axis machines to put it to use, there are products being designed and manufactured that weren't conceivable just a few years ago.

I'm familiar with PowerCad but I've been using VectorWorks for several years now as my 2D CAD software. It's been a good workhorse for me. I originally started out with a drafting/tech illustration program called Canvas many, many years ago. I still have most of those original drawing files and VectorWorks will open and convert them. They usually require some cleaning up, but it's still less work than doing a complete redraw.

Paul
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MrBrownstone
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« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2009, 01:21:29 AM »

heh she was right....

You guys are machinists...if you are not you even fooled me.

anyway I have a question for you CAD guys..
Q: is there a recomended or perfered small milling machine (i.e. micro-mark milling machine) that also has the stepping motors capability and maybe even cnc programable.

BTW I use most autodesk software, autoCAD 2008, autodesk Inventor and for 3d modeling design, I still have punchpro architectual designer purchased that one back in 98 and it still is the best running app of its kind, a well writen app...must be it even still works on the Windows 7 platform.

Mike
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RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2009, 04:08:02 PM »

Mike:

I'm an old-fashioned stick-in-the-mud and strictly an analogue machinist, turning the dials by hand. I find the tactile input essential, but then as I say, I'm old fashioned when it comes to some of this stuff. I do use dial gauge read-outs but don't do enough machine work to warrant the expense of a CNC controlled machine. I believe Sherline makes a benchtop CNC mill, basically a slightly larger and fancier machine than the mill I use. I have no experience with them though and don't know anyone who has one, so can't make any recommendation one way or the other. I'm sure there are others on the forum who have direct experience with CNC mills and would be able to make a recommendation for you.

Paul
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RoughboyModelworks
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« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2009, 04:14:48 PM »

For anyone who has been following the shay construction series, I just posted a restored article on the Roughboy blog http://roughboy.net detailing the production of the scale square-head bolts (pictured below) that mount the pilot beams to the frame brackets. Next it's time to turn attention again to the boxwood pilot beams and footboards.

Paul

« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 04:16:26 PM by Roughboy » Logged
MrBrownstone
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« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2009, 06:53:38 PM »

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the info... I will check into the sherline product/s as well as a few others.
I don't want to make a choice just yet, I need to do more research on the bench top types.

I like your CAD renderings too...

Mike
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« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2009, 03:39:58 PM »

For anyone who has been following the shay construction series, I just posted a restored article on the Roughboy blog http://roughboy.net detailing the production of the scale square-head bolts (pictured below) that mount the pilot beams to the frame brackets. Next it's time to turn attention again to the boxwood pilot beams and footboards.

Paul

Thanks a lot for the tutorial!
The technique should work equally well for bolts with hexnut heads.

What kind of die did you use for tapping the bolts  have had a hard time finding dies that ives nice, sharp threads in the smaller sizes (below M1, I´m strictly metric...)
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Regards, Hauk
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