35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)

[Malachi Constant]

Alrighty, so here we go ... my buddy Alan Carroll is quite prolific at bashing On30 locos, and he got going on bashing the Forneys several years ago ... which inspired me to start bashing one for use as a 1/35 scale, 2-foot gauge loco.  Got a little further than this a few years ago ... and got a bit side-tracked after that.    Meanwhile, Alan has done a bunch of new bashes, including 0-4-0T, 0-4-2T, 2-4-2T, etc. ... all of those look like good candidates for 1/35 conversion too, so I thought maybe I should try finishing one before getting any more "bright ideas."  

Now, this little beasty has been getting bounced around, mangled and dusty for a few years now ... ANY/ALL thoughts and ideas about the overall arrangements, details, etc. are welcome ... as they might help me get past some of the indecision that's hovering over this dusty mess.      



First photo shows a scratchbuilt 1/35 scale cab and the "stock" On30 Forney details ... this one is the same image clumsily "photo-chopped" into an 0-4-0 ...



This one shows the boiler with some Xeodon On30 domes for the Mogul that have been sectioned and made taller ... and loosely-placed 9mm scale (roughly 1/34) headlight and steam generator.  I have a spare Forney boiler that's unmolested, plus unmodified versions of the Xeodon domes ... and a variety of other domes in various sizes and styles ... so we're very open to making changes at this point to get a good look.  The tender is a Grandt Line On3 Porter tender, which seems rather huge in O scale but roughly the right size in 1/35.



I filed down the smokebox rivets and installed some larger ones ... but think I went a bit too big there ... again, have a spare "stock" boiler so I can backtrack on that as needed ...  

Also, think those 9mm headlight and generator castings are a touch on the large size ... thinking about scratchbuilding and casting some substitutes ... maybe 80% the size of these?  



This compares the stock boiler and the one with larger domes and details ...



And, from this angle, the size of headlight and generator don't bother me as much ... so, in case it isn't painfully obvious here, I've been boggled by elements of indecision but liking the overall ideas ... it's "early" enough in this dusty old project to change just about anything ... (which furthers the indecision of course!) ... so I'll ask what you guys like / don't like, think and/or suggest about moving forward with this.

PS -- Also thinking about adding doors to access running boards (not shown) on the front of the cab; changing to On3 size coupler a bit higher, etc ...

Thanks!
Dallas the boggled wannabe loco builder

[lab-dad]

Interesting....
To me simply attaching a larger cab is not enough.
Also thinking out loud wouldn't the boiler be about 75% of the "right" size? Hence too small?
The 1/35 headlight makes the boiler look even smaller.
I think you need to enlarge the boiler.
-Marty

[Malachi Constant]

Thanks Marty --

That's all still open for discussion ... although I have to admit that I was thinking of actually making a SMALLER boiler ... along the lines of the attached photo.

Been looking at the funky little Glover locomotives ... some of which have really peculiar boiler configurations and placements (some sit very high over the drives) ... and some of those have "ridiculously tiny drivers" ... along the lines of what you'd get if you converted an HO loco to 1/35 (but the spokes would be too small)

Also looking at the little 60cm (roughly 2') gauge locos built for WW1 trench service ... and some of the little "teakettle" Maine 2-footers ... again, like the attached.

And, along those lines, part of the idea here is to use the On30 chassis as the basis for making a LARGER scale model of a SMALLER locomotive.  The driver size, wheel-base, boiler and other components become "smaller" when measured in the larger scale ... but there is a tremendous variety.  Second photo shows a tiny 0-4-0 ... notice that the little stack isn't even tall enough to clear the open cab (and the bum sleeping on the base of the display).

I can't recall where to find it, but there's a famous builder photo showing a really tiny steamer inside or alongside the boiler of a giant standard gauge loco ... anyone have a copy of that?

I sincerely DON'T know the ins-and-outs of boiler and cylinder sizing ... but there's a huge variety from tiny little "cigar tube" boilers to the really fat boilers on some of the D&RGW 3-footers ...

Again, all input and ideas wanted and appreciated.  Marty, thanks for getting things started.  -- Dallas

[Malachi Constant]

Another example ... tiny boiler, big domes, tall stack ...

[Malachi Constant]

First:  Kauai sugar plantation ... small boiler, relatively large domes and stack ...

Second:  How low can your boiler go?  Photo is obviously a "real" loco ... but that would have to be shown alongside the model to make the model "believable" 

[finescalerr]

Why would you prefer to bash a semi-accurate product into a total kluge? Bashing occasionally has its place, but not nearly as often as some modelers think. Why not scratchbuild exactly what you want? It will be little or no additional work. -- Russ

[marc_reusser]

Dallas,

I think the big difference between the photos, and what is likely causing part of the issue with your bash, is the length if the boiler, and the loco frame. I think if you got rid of the lead truck (you can always use it as a trailing truck under the cab), shortened the frame and the boiler, your bash would look much closer to the proportions that most your photos show.

This being from an earlier era of work from you, IMO, (and no offense) the cab construction lacks some of the finesse of your more current work...maybe it's just the styrene thickness, or the rivet size/appearance...cant put my finger on it...but it seems chunky...especially around the windows and top, and looks like it can't decide if it wants to be a steel cab or a wood cab.

Marc

[Malachi Constant]

Marc -- Thanks for the candor and input!  Attached is a photo of an Alan Carroll On30 bash done that I've crudely photo-chopped to 1/35 scale.  Might need to shorten the smokebox ... but the overall proportions are quite similar to a Glover 0-4-2T (shown in the book, but haven't found any of that on the web).  I'd like to find a happy compromise between Russ' suggestion and the argument from my idiot selves presented below ... so on-going discussion is appreciated!    (For anyone who has the Glover book, see pp. 33 & 49)


Russ -- Because I have MPMD (Multiple Personalities Modelers Disorder) ...

One of me enjoys the challenge of scratchbuilding things and attempting to get somewhere close to "fine scale" and he's perfectly content to plod along slowly and do it right ...

Another one is a simple-minded idiot who gets a cheap thrill from watching choo-choos go roundy-round, and he'd like to see that happen sooner rather than later ... and he keeps reminding me how infernally long the scratchbuilt projects end up taking the first idiot!  

So, likely that I'll go ahead and call her Kluge and finish her up just to make you barf and keep one of my idiot selves happy till I get far enough along on the "real" projects to dig into a "real mess" and start scratchbuilding some of the super-cool locos that I'd really like ...

Oops, gotta go, another one of me is running with scissors ... stop, stop!  -- Dallas

PS -- It certainly might turn out that Russ is completely right ... but I'd like to at least push the idea of doing a "good enough" bash for entertainment purposes to see if that would work in the interim ... any help along those lines appreciated!

[Malachi Constant]

Took Alan's 0-4-2T bash, printed it to match the size of the Glover (roughly) ... then did some additional photo-chopping ... and sonuvagun if it ain't pretty close.  Granted, this is really crude computer work and I skipped a bunch of mods ... end beams would have to be raised (which would be a good thing), cab details properly arranged, etc ...

Oh yeah, the particular Glover shown has angled cylinders and no visible ashpan ... but another small Glover has horizontal cylinders and visible ashpan very similar to the modified On30 bash ... and there are still quite a few Glover locos for which builder/service photos have never been found!    

(Yeah, I'm still at it ... cast some resin parts ... play on the computer some more ... repeat ...Dallas)

(And, the boiler would actually have to be a little smaller to accurately do the Glover)

[Krusty]

Also, think those 9mm headlight and generator castings are a touch on the large size

Dallas

In the real world that type of headlight (a Pyle-National 20-C-300-N since you ask) was used on fairly large (by medium-gauge standards) main line locomotives -- 4-8-4s and other such boring tat -- so, yes, it is rather out of place on a civilised-size tank locomotive. The Pyle K2 generator, though, was a standard item that didn't change, whatever size headlight it was used to power.

[Malachi Constant]

Thanks again for the input & ideas ... I guess we have a good news / bad news situation here ...

-- The GOOD news is that I decided that Russ is more or less right ... and it would be a relatively straightforward deal to build a very plausible (at least to me) little Glover loco on the smooth-running Forney mechanism.  Very slight compromises required there, but I'm definitely not going to scratchbuild all the running gear!

-- Now, the BAD news is I couldn't bring myself to buy another Forney (need the inside-frame version) for THAT without doing "something" with THIS ... so, I'm going to go ahead and finish her as a little caricature locomotive ... and, yes, I definitely do enjoy that sort of thing from time to time.  

So, now's the time to look away or jump to another thread ...

Go ahead ...

LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!  LOOK AWAY!
There's still time ...

The little red X on the top right of your screen in extreme emergencies ...

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Okay, fair warning is over ...



Made a little more progress, found a PSC stack in the stash that I like and a rather large O scale headlight that should do the trick ...



Look who climbed aboard!  Oh yeah, going with the caricature theme, this will be a little loco made for an excursion line to serve some hot springs ... taking passengers from a meeting point with ye olde standard gauge to a cozy spot up in the mountains ... kinda like the Mt. Gretna RR theme (also 2 foot gauge) ...

Won't bother y'all too much more with this until the hideous final pix are ready!  (Not that anyone has actually read this far.)  

Cheers,
Dallas

[Gordon Ferguson]

OK Dallas ,I kept reading ........... and survived probable because I know little about trains, especially American Narrow Gauge.

Me, I like it, especially now that you have changed the stack(chimney?) and got rid of  those rivets  and I think with some paint on it it will look, interesting   .... think you are going to have to go with a pretty pristine paint job ,maybe Brunswick green ,gold/yellow lining and some satin black on various bits

I suppose I would be tempted to loose the front truck(?) maybe as suggested earlier put it under the cab and bring the buffer/coupling(?) beam back to just ahead of the boiler ........... but as I say that suggestion is based on no knowledge what so ever, purely on what I like.

So you keep on having fun

[78ths]

Looking great. wow some very inspiring ideas. Yes it is hard to stay away from - REAL hard.
If it weren't for lack of time I would be tempted...  looking forward to seeing the loco's progress.

cheers Ferd

[marc_reusser]

I like her...I think she is a fun, interesting and charming lokie. A great freelance build. Look forward to more progress.

...BUT...you have got to get rid of that hideous Kadee coupler...at least go with the San Juan/Sergeant ones.....though L&P would be even better on a small industrial shortline loco.

Please fix that pipe coming out of the cab....it's not horizontal...and really grates on my anal retentive nerves.

Marc

[Malachi Constant]

Thanks!  Yes, the hideous truth is that I've continued on with this little "kluge" without saying too much about that here ... and progress has been slow due to limited time.

#1)  The knuckle is gone!  I cut off the wide Forney-style deck and scratchbuilt a new pilot deck, beam and pilot patterned pretty closely after the one on Puffing Billy 2-4-2T #861 (thanks to Mario for that photo) ...

#2)  Don't get too worried about the plastic pipe!  That will go away ... I'll be scratchbuilding a new wood cab after your spot-on observations about the one currently shown ... the plastic pipes will disappear somewhere along the way, but I find them helpful in the "visualization" for now.

#3) Also leaning toward going to a 2-4-2 wheel arrangement, along the lines of Hawaii Ry. #5

Cheers,
Dallas