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Author Topic: 35n2 Loco Bash -- "thinking out loud" (1/35 scale)  (Read 31565 times)
Chuck Doan
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« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2011, 08:41:12 AM »

I like it.
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Malachi Constant
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2011, 08:55:54 AM »



Thanks Marc & Chuck!  Following Marc's earlier criticism on the cab (much appreciated), I've been pondering that issue and surfing for ideas.  Found the little LK&P RR (aka Maui Sugar Cane Train) "Anaka" 2-4-0 with very similar overall proportions and a nice wood cab ... (oh, and the pilot area is very similar to the one I copied from an Australian loco)



Made some quick drawings and put together a mock-up of that ... may need to increase the cab height a bit.  Sides of earlier steel cab are 6" higher ... overall difference is more drastic because of very different roof design/pitch.  May need to increase the height of the new cab by 3" to 6" ... additional notes below.



The loco takes on a rather different look with the new cab style -- any and all thoughts, ideas, etc. are welcome!  Note -- cab doors:  If these look "too small" ... you're absolutely right!  It appears that they are used for visibility & ventilation.  They ARE very narrow as shown here:
http://www.silverstatespecialties.com/Reference/Trains/LK&P-RR/LK&P-RR_Anaka_02.shtml
http://www.silverstatespecialties.com/Reference/Trains/LK&P-RR/LK&P-RR_Anaka_02a.shtml

And, even if they have some really skinny crew members who can squeeze thru those, it would be quite a challenge to climb over the backhead controls, piping, etc:
http://www.silverstatespecialties.com/Reference/Trains/LK&P-RR/LK&P-RR_Anaka_02d.shtml

Interestingly, the doors open INWARD against the cab sides ... and they're SOLID panels (no windows) ... the lines I've drawn represent raised molding.  Look for the door in the front left of cab here:
http://www.silverstatespecialties.com/Reference/Trains/LK&P-RR/LK&P-RR_Anaka_02e.shtml



Increase height of cab sides?  This IS a "small" loco, but looks like the sides should be 3" to 6" taller.  (6" increase would match the height of the original steel cab sides)



Once the cab design is worked out, I'll extend the subfloor, extend the frame under the cab, add end beam and appropriate details in that area, etc.  Meanwhile, this cab is just a mock-up ... so any/all thoughts and ideas welcome!

Thanks!
Dallas




« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 09:04:26 AM by Malachi Constant » Logged

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Ray Dunakin
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2011, 01:03:04 PM »

Looks good to me. I like the new cab design.
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2011, 02:48:44 PM »

Hmmm...me feels tht the cab is too long, with that much trunk space /overhang I would like to see a trailing truck.

I think I have some erection drawings for some sugar cane locos showing the wood cabs, that might be of interest....if you send me your email I will send you scans of them.....that ius if you want them.


Marc
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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2011, 03:37:51 PM »

Yep, seems like too much cab overhang. It might tip the front of the loco into the air. -- Russ
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Chuck Doan
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2011, 05:15:47 PM »

He can always have some mini-Mudgeons ride on the pilot.
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Malachi Constant
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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2011, 07:12:38 PM »



First of all ... thanks!  Still have to mull it over ... and y'all might be right on the cab overhang ... though it matches that LK&P loco shown.  They have two about this size ... one of those was a 2-4-2 for a while, but they had trouble with the trailing truck derailing ... considered a trailing truck with one of shorter paper cabs as shown above ... might work better with the new long cab style.  



The overhang matches photo ... suspect that the (current) absence of under-the-cab frame detail and the few inches of missing cab height exaggerate the effect a bit ... but I'll probably mock-up a bit of rear frame with trailing truck to see how that look.  Sent Marc a PM for his references ... will continue to ponder this before actually building the parts.  Thanks again for the input.  That all helps as the ideas "stew" a bit.



Of course, if the overhang proves to be too much, I can get my buddy Jim Favre to build me some wheelie bars!  That's another way of making it a 2-4-2, I suppose.  Grin

(Can only imagine what will happen if Mr. Hamilton happens to see that last photo!)

Cheers,
Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2011, 01:48:21 AM »

Geez, I hope that mech has been geared accordingly!  I'm thinking slot car days when 1:1 ratio was slow.  Come to think of it, a loco like that could come in handy.  I get countless complaints from kids at exhibitions that our little geared loco's travel too slow...that thing ought to put them in line.

Dan
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Philip Smith
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« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2011, 05:42:24 AM »

amen to a shorter cab!




I get countless complaints from kids at exhibitions that our little geared loco's travel too slow...that thing ought to put them in line.

Dan

tell the children your loco's are on dial up......

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« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2011, 04:03:01 PM »

Dallas,

Got your PM...will scan them this week and get them out.


M


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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2011, 12:04:55 AM »

Thanks Marc -- Will be interesting to see what new ideas or improvements those drawings might suggest.  Dallas
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2011, 09:44:12 PM »



I'm still plugging away on kluge ... haven't reached a point where anything is "pretty" yet, but gonna throw out some updates before I lose track of those ... above:  sliced and spliced the boiler saddle to raise the boiler just a bit less than 3 scale inches, which provides a little "see-thru" space between boiler and frame.



The outside-frame members on the original Forney ended at the firebox/ashpan ... so did some rearranging and additions there to make it look more like the outside-frame chassis for a 2-4-0.



Triangular openings shown in frame here got some putty as shown below to round out the openings ... it'll all be a lot easier to see when there's some primer on it, but have a few more things to do before we get that far.  Cool



Chopped up, rearranged & rebuilt the original ashpan to fit between the frame members and provide space for a little decoder ...



Added a little ash grate ... puttied the corners of those triangular frame openings ... built new cab floor ... raised back of boiler to match front.  Still a lot of little things like brake cylinders, hoses, pipes, fittings and such to "fill out" the rear end details ...



Ash grate was made using some mesh ribbon from the craft store and bits of styrene ... will add some drop-wires to that later.  As mentioned, there's still nothing "pretty" here ... but starting to feel like kluge might shape up into a neat little loco!  Well, we'll see ...  Huh  Roll Eyes  Tongue  Undecided   Grin
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« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2011, 02:10:12 AM »

What holds the extensions to the mainframe? I was looking for pins, screws, or attachment to an intermediate section (maybe the ashpan?) but nothing is obvious. That probably means you did a very good job. -- Russ
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« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2011, 03:16:25 AM »



What holds the extensions to the mainframe? I was looking for pins, screws, or attachment to an intermediate section (maybe the ashpan?) but nothing is obvious. That probably means you did a very good job. -- Russ

Well, I didn't shoot pix at every little step of the way ... cuz it was kinda tricky and I didn't want to loose my train of thought!  Grin  But ... these photos might help a little.  

You can see a bit of metal under the styrene strip between B & C (above) -- that's a tab for mounting screw that holds the original metal frame piece.  The extensions were built up of various styrene strip and laminations.  The first piece has a simple butt joint against the metal frame at A -- plastic and metal surfaces roughed up, glued with ACC.  The lower strip (B/C) is made of two laminated pieces.  The thicker piece in back butts against the metal screw-mount tab at B.  A thinner piece over that overlaps the face of the screw tab along C.  Styrene pieces have solvent-welded joints along the lines D & E.

So, at right:  there are butt joints shown in pink, a surface joint shown in orange and solvent joints between plastic parts shown in blue ...



The combination of butt joints and surface joint makes a sort of T-shaped joint as shown in pink here.  That and the diagonal brace go a long way to reinforcing the inherent weakness of simple butt joints.  Then I joined the two separate sides with a sub-floor between the cab and ashpan.  Again, the styrene parts are all solvent welded ... and this assembly creates an L-shaped joint between styrene and metal parts as shown in orange.  So, the combination of the T-shape and L-shaped gluing reinforcements makes it all rather sturdy ... despite the absence of pins and such.



Repeating one of the previous photos, you can see where the two separate metal pieces were unified with the extensions and the subfloor that goes between the cab and ashpan.  It took a LOT of concentration to make sure that this was all removable, as I'll probably have to disassemble/reassemble the whole lot a few times at various stages of painting/detailing.  (Yeah, I mean I really had to concentrate ... caught myself several times starting add little bits that would have "trapped" the assembly that has to be removable against the actual mechanical frame of the lokie!)



Speaking of assembly/disassembly ... the ashpan fits over the screws that hold the outside-frame assembly in place, so that had to be removable too.  There are divets in the front (upper right of photo) that are shaped around the screw tabs and screw heads ... the little ears sticking up in front are bits of the pan that will show thru the opening in the frame behind the rear driver ... so those are there to insure that they'll be painted the same as the actual ashpan and it will appear to have the appropriate continuity.



And once the chassis is pretty much together and painted, the decoder and wires have to be tucked into the ashpan, so the bottom of that slides in place from the rear.  The little ash grate is very delicate, so I drilled two little holes in the bottom which allow it to be placed with tweezers instead of big fat fingers that will smash the little grate!  Grin  (This is probably pretty obvious, but just so you know that I know ... those little holes were added after this photo was taken)  Wink

Have to do a few more little details on the frame and rig up some brake shoes and such, then hope to get some primer on the various components to see where additional putty/fill and other corrections might be needed ... oh, also forgot to mention that I re-worked the cab drawings and have that nearly sorted out.  More on that after the frame stuff gets straightened up.

Cheers,
Dallas

« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 03:22:14 AM by Malachi Constant » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2011, 03:38:49 AM »

With the various thicknesses of styrene fitted around the various metal bits, I didn't think I could work out a fancy rounded opening in the frame extension ... which would have needed the same shape cut in a couple thicknesses of plastic ... so I "cheated" by framing a simple triangle, then doing the rest with putty (Magic Sculp) ... pressed that into the corners of the opening, and used various diameter drill bits to create the rounded corners.  Likewise, where the brace meets the bottom of the frame extension ... but there I was able to use my big fat finger to shape a curved fillet ... of course, this has all been sanded since these shots were taken.  -- Dallas


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* 240-bash-36.jpg (36.7 KB, 600x271 - viewed 1173 times.)
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