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Author Topic: 3D Printing  (Read 10409 times)
eTraxx
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« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2011, 07:30:56 PM »

UPrint .. $14,900. Specs tell it's still realatively crude .. but it's a start.
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Ed Traxler

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« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2011, 01:43:47 AM »

Thanks for the link, Ed!

A great possibility .... on your desk ... just quickly put the idea of yesterday ...

But we are modellers ... I think both have their charm.

Quote
Layer thickness: 0.254 mm (0.010 in) of precisely deposited model and support material

That is about 4 slices per millimeter (10 times coarser resolution than the buffer above).
For most of our own standards, this machine is not really useful (apart from price).

It is as before: the first inkjet printers cost a fortune and the quality was not comparable to today's standards.

So will we have to wait a little longer, until such a small machine is with us on the desk. Let's see what the future brings to us... until then, the service provider will earn a little by us.

Frithjof
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eTraxx
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« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2011, 08:54:39 AM »

Well now. First they close PAP .. now just got this email
---------------

Dear FineLine Customer,

As you may know, FineLine has experienced rapid growth of our core stereolithography service offering over the years, due to our focus on quality and customer service.  In order to accommodate that growth and demand, we have decided to terminate a service that is not central to our core business.  I am writing to inform you that, as of June 28, 2011 FineLine will no longer be accepting orders for processing on our InVision HR 3D printers.   We have concluded that we can better serve our customers by directing our resources toward increasing our capacity for high-resolution stereolithography.

I realize that this will be an inconvenience to some of you, and for that I sincerely apologize.  Our quoting staff will do everything we can to help you transition to a different technology wherever possible, or guide you to alternative sources for your needs.  In the end, we are here to serve you to the best of our abilities.

Thank you for your understanding during this period of transition.  Please feel free to contact us by phone or email with any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Rob Connelly
President
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Ed Traxler

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Chuck Doan
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« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2011, 09:06:33 AM »

I just got this one too. Sounds like affordable hobbyist part making may be gone, at least from them. I have a hunch they want to get rid of that type of customer and focus on industrial/commercial work. I like the idea of higher resolution, but the increase to something like the green material is too high for a non-commercial use.

Oh well glad I got my gas pump in. Might kill my next project though. i'll have to send something in for a quote and see.









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« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2011, 09:29:55 AM »

I got one too and I believe your analysis of their motives is correct Chuck. I have a load of projects coming up for rapid prototyping so will have to test something on the higher-res material - see if the output quality is worth the extra cost.

Paul
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sd80mac
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« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2011, 09:55:11 AM »

This was probably the plan all along...

Maybe it's time to reconsider the CNC conversion on my Sherline...

Donnell
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Hauk
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« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2011, 10:49:42 AM »

This was probably the plan all along...

I dont think this was planned.

3D printing as a service is a rather new business, and that companies adjust their goals and strategies should come as no surprise.

I have no problem understanding that the demanding hobbyist is not a market all service providers are interestet in.

We buy in low volumes, demand high quality  and beeing amateurs ask a lot of questions. People should not take this a critisism, I fit this profile perfectly myself.

But at the same time I really feel there is a market for 3D printing aimed at hobbyists. There will be other service providers that will have as their business model to serve this market. Shapeways springs to mind. Shapeways seems to adjust their business model as well, their move towards higher resolutions and new material is very promising.

So don´t despair, there will be alternatives.

And who knows,  in time the coveted green stuff might be affordable!

-Hauk
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Chuck Doan
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« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2011, 11:01:15 AM »

I don't think it was planned either. I imagine they got swamped with onesy-twosey requests from as you say demanding customers (like me!). If they were making money on it it is doubtful they would give it up.

I hope there are others with their level of service.

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« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2011, 11:38:17 AM »

Have anybody checked if there have been any price changes at FineLine?

-Hauk
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« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2011, 01:00:36 PM »

Are they really the only game in town? It would seem someone, somewhere, should be able to serve modelers on a budget. Their e-mail suggests they will refer you to alternate sources, presumably including other companies. N'est-ce pas? -- Russ
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« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2011, 01:39:30 PM »

Refer back to page 1 of this thread. I published some photos of prints I had from Shapeways. Their new FUD matches that produced by PAP. The prices are reasonable too .. I got 1 ea Small Coke Oven Arch printed in WSF and FUD, 1 x large arch in FUD, 1 ea left and right columns in FUD, and 4 ea of the 6" gate valves in FUD all printed and shipped for $25. That includes a $3.34 credit for 2ea gate vaves that I had asked to be printed in WSF (for test) and they said that material wouldn't print the detail I needed.
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Ed Traxler

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« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2011, 04:25:59 PM »

Ed, you expect us to remember back FOUR pages? Geez.

You are right, Shapeways new process looks pretty good. I will send a test part over there soon. I am counting on getting some parts made for my new project. Their name has always bounced off me due the crudeness of their first process.
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« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2011, 09:33:20 PM »

Ugh. And I've (finally) got some stuff I need to have printed.
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Bexley Andrajack
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« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2011, 10:23:31 AM »

Ugh. And I've (finally) got some stuff I need to have printed.

A few notes on the PAP/Fineline announcement and shapeways FUD.  First, the FUD material from shapeways is printed with a Projet HD 3000 which is the current model of the Invision HR machine that Fineline was offering.  The Invision HR machine is pretty much outdated by now as they were "newish" around 2004.  You can find used Invision HR machines for around $15,000 to $25,000 today.  In other words, what Fineline was offering, shapeways is(was) offering with a newer technology and at a reduced price.  Second, the FUD material was a trial at shapeways and it's done this week.  For those who are really interested in this, today (June 24th 2011) Shapeways will make the final announcement on whether FD and FUD will be available in the future.

Regardless of the outcome of the FD/FUD trial, Shapeways appears to be searching for higher resolution options all the time.  I've seen a lot of rumblings about them offering a high res wax based option which would be very useful to a lot of us who might investment cast TINY parts for brass or pewter centrifuge casting.  This industry, of course, is constantly evolving and at an amazingly rapid pace.  One thing that is certain is that newer higher resolution printers will come and they will become economical for our community.  I strongly believe that what is available in SLA right now will be available at shapeways FD/FUD prices in the very near future.  I believe there will be a major breakthrough in this technology which could have a dramatic impact on production cost.

These are some exciting times for those with some 3d modeling skills who are involved in scratchbuilding.  Consider the rapid pace in which we've gone from very crude resolution at astronomical prices to the dirt cheap high resolution options we have now.  Ten years ago, a 400 mm3 print with obvious stepping at .1mm would cost in the neighborhood of $250.  Today, a 400 mm3 print with virtually no stepping costs around $15.  As with Moore's law, the the resolution in 3d printing seems to be progressing at an exponential rate.

If you're interested in similar resolution, take a look at http://www.proto3000.com/ in Canada.  I've personally used them for printing with one of their objet printers.  Contact them for a quote and a recommendation on which printer to use.  They've got some ridiculous resolution options but will cost a bit more.  They returned my quotes within a few hours and parts usually arrived in a few days.  There are a few considerations with the Objet material though.  It is a good bit more susceptible to heat distortion than the Invision/Projet parts so it would probably be more suited as a mold master than as a direct use part.  The material also doesn't seem to hold sharp details as good as the Projet material does.

Finally, as another example of how the technology is getting more affordable, take a look at the Solido printer at Solidvision: http://www.solidvision.com/3d-printing/solido/  This printer is $2,950 and a material kit (8kg roll of pvc, glue cartridge, anti glue pens) is $500.  The mileage you get out of a material kit is entirely dependent on how and what you print.  For an idea of how it compares to the Visijet material from Fineline, take a look at this: http://mysd300.blogspot.com/2010/03/process-comparison-invision-hr.html  This illustrates how the resolution range of the Invision HR material is becoming cheap enough to own at home.  The SD300 is a very interesting product because it has applications beyond simply building a 3d part.  You can use it to lay down layers with various thickness printed on a flat sheet for assembly.  Use your imagination.  Watch this video to see how easy it is to use this printer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=02Vcvi1wrqk
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 10:29:40 AM by NGPhil » Logged

Phil Light
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« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2011, 12:19:23 PM »

Looks like FUD is staying.  Details here: http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/894-And-the-Fate-of-the-Frosted-DetailUltra-Detail-is....html
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