Westlake Publishing Forums
November 16, 2019, 10:30:37 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:     REGARDING MEMBERSHIP ON THIS FORUM: Due to spam, our server has disabled the forum software to gain membership. The only way to become a new member is for you to send me a private e-mail with your preferred screen name (we prefer you use your real name, or some variant there-of), and email adress you would like to have associated with the account.  -- Send the information to:  Russ at finescalerr@msn.com
 
   Home   Help Search Login  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: I've Been Misled  (Read 8171 times)
NORCALLOGGER
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 437


« on: August 27, 2010, 06:25:47 PM »

Or more than likley I have just misunderstood.

Hi all,
I tried to etch some Pepsi can corrigated roofing today and had no success. As I understood the process you just submerged the aluminum in the etchent and watched it for 15-20 minutes then rinsed it off and buffed it with a brush.

Welllllll,  it didn't seem to work out for me.
Here is the results after nearly 2-1/2 hours in the solution. Not exactly the results I was hoping for.

 Any suggestions?Huh?



* roofing1.JPG (36.59 KB, 448x336 - viewed 696 times.)

* roofing2.JPG (36.31 KB, 448x336 - viewed 626 times.)
Logged
JohnP
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 439



WWW
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2010, 07:31:22 PM »

I've never etched for weathering but have done brass.  Wild guess- does the can have any kind of coating? Maybe it need to be cleaned of first.

John
Logged

John Palecki
Philip Smith
Guest
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2010, 07:46:57 PM »

Two things..Maybe to thick of material and most likely coated with a barrier as John suggested.

Try this available at Michaels or direct from amaco/ amer art clay supply.

philip


* P1010117.JPG (63.14 KB, 640x478 - viewed 689 times.)
Logged
finescalerr
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5483


« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2010, 02:00:00 AM »

My suggestion: Use paper. No hassle and, when you put some pastel chalk on it, you can't tell the difference between it and metal. Fiskars makes a corrugator for your scale. You can find it at Michael's craft stores. -- Russ
Logged
Franck Tavernier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 301


WWW
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2010, 03:38:10 AM »

What type of etchent did you use?

Ferric Chloride works better with aluminium than Ammonium Persulphate...

Franck
Logged

NORCALLOGGER
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 437


« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2010, 11:22:26 AM »

Hi guys,
Thanks for the suggestions.

I was using ferric chloride on the aluminum.
I think the problem was, as some suggested, a coating on the can inside.
I scrubbed a couple of pieces with a wire brush and then tried again.
A lot better results but the material is so thin that most of the sheet is eaten completely up before all of it is etched.  Not a good deal.

Philip,
I had some of that material on hand for making barrels so just dipped one of them.  The heavier material held up much better and etched quickly but I still managed to let it through in a couple of spots. 

I will pick up a couple of roasting pans today and try that material as it will be heavier yet.  If that doesn't work I may just try Russ's paper idea.  That is some nasty chemical solution and I would just as soon not use it very much.

Anyway here is a couple of shots of the barrel I dipped, the first one is just out of the dip and scrubbed off.  The second shot shows a little of the Bragdon Powders smeared on.

Thanks.
Rick


* roofing3.JPG (27.09 KB, 448x336 - viewed 642 times.)

* roofing4.JPG (26.14 KB, 448x336 - viewed 679 times.)
Logged
chester
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 761


« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2010, 10:33:01 PM »

Lovely look to the barrel and so quick and easy.
I've always found aluminum dipped in Ferric Chloride worked very fast in a violent reaction. Much too quick for controlled results. I switched to a much less powerful mixture of muriatic acid (70%) and hydrogen peroxide (30%).
   My guess is the same as everyone else on the can material coating. Try using the aluminum seal that comes on food product containers like peanuts and coffee (two major food groups).
Logged

NORCALLOGGER
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 437


« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2010, 05:41:26 PM »

Well, a little success today.
I picked up a couple of disposable aluminum cookie sheets at the grocery store yesterday and gave that material a try this morning. 

I only need 9 pieces for the shovel roof but the pans gave me about 40 pieces total so I cut them all up just to be sure and have enough.

The first thing I learned, just as Chester pointed out, there is a violent chemical reaction with the clean aluminum and it is difficult to control the amount of etching.  I didn't have any trouble with the sheets being eaten up but the color went to a more rusted look then I would really of liked. 

The second thing I learned is that after dipping 10-12 sheets the liquid started turning more to sludge, I assume from the aluminum residue, and I needed to add more etch fluid.

The third thing I learned is that no matter where I stood in relation to the dip bowl the smoke/fumes wanted to come directly towards my face.  Must be some relation to camp fire smoke  Smiley.

The fourth thing I learned is that even though I dipped and rinsed the sheets in clear water after etching I wasn't careful about how I placed some of them to dry before scrubbing.  Where the sheets lapped or overlaid each other it created darkened patterens.  These sheets should work just fine for old building roofing with enough weathering powders on them to hide the distinct lines of the overlaps. 

Well anyway here is a picture of what I ended up with for the Marion Shovel roof.

Thanks for looking
Rick



* roofing5.JPG (39.82 KB, 448x336 - viewed 704 times.)
Logged
marc_reusser
Curmudgeon
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4504



WWW
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2010, 05:17:03 PM »

What you have there looks OK. ..and sorry to jump in a bit late, but a few pointers on the etching.

1. Wear long sleeves, rubber gloves, and a respirator.

2. Do only 1 sheet at a time (as you progress through the sheets the fluid will heat up and the reaction will happen quicker and more violently)

3. Upon pulling the sheet out, immeditely drop it into a jar or bowl filled with water and some dish detergent (this will stop and neutralize any further reaction.)

4. Once you have etched all the sheets and they are floating in the bottom of your soap/water mix bowl, empy the bowl, of liquid and start doing several long repeat rinses of the bowl with the pieces in it with cold water. (leave the pieces floating in a final bowl of clean water)

5. Take a flat bottom tray-like item (I use a white enamel coated artists tray)...take one piece at a time and using a soft slighltly cut-down-bristle toothbrush scrub each side of the metal to remove most of the orangand black oxidation/residue. To do this, hold the metal down flat in the tray with your thumb and fore-finger, dip the brush in some water, and then scrub in the direction of the corrugation...not to hard to flatten the corrucation, but enough to remove the residue and leave you with a nice dull grey, slightly mottled, surface color. When you have done both sides, drop the piece into a a fresh/different bowl/jar of clean water. (removal of this residue will also help in preventing any potential future progressive etching)

6. When all the pieces have been scrubbed and are floating in the clean water bowl...do another thorough water rinse of the bowl/pieces.

7.  Lastly....place each piece seperately on a piece of paper towel to dry (once one side is dry, you will have to flip the piece to get the other to dry).


This is the technique I have been using for years, and I get continuous consistant results.

HTH,

Marc

« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 08:34:42 PM by marc_reusser » Logged

I am an unreliable witness to my own existence.

In the corners of my mind there is a circus....

M-Works
NORCALLOGGER
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 437


« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2010, 02:45:53 PM »

Marc,
Thank you for the SBS on this, just what I needed.  I think I fell down on the rinsing process so ended up with a darker finish than I really wanted.

Will try some more pieces next week.

Rick
Logged
NORCALLOGGER
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 437


« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2010, 04:42:14 PM »

Hi guys,
Well I made up another batch today and came out with better results.  Basically I followed Marc's SBS above (thanks Marc) and ended up with the grey color that I was looking for with out the rusted look.

A couple of pictures below.
Rick


* roofing6.JPG (39.16 KB, 448x336 - viewed 649 times.)

* roofing7.JPG (28.78 KB, 448x336 - viewed 673 times.)
Logged
Malachi Constant
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1544



« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2010, 04:57:17 PM »

Rick -- New panels look great!

Marc -- Thanks for taking the time to post your notes ... saved for future reference.

Cheers,
Dallas
Logged

-- Dallas Mallerich  (Just a freakin' newbie who stumbled into the place)
Email me on the "Contact Us" page at www.BoulderValleyModels.com
MinerFortyNiner
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62



WWW
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2010, 11:53:33 PM »

Very interesting, I wish I knew this before vaporizing my share of siding in ferric chloride before figuring out essentially what Marc shared.  I use a slight variation on Marc's technique, I use a baking soda solution to stop the etching action, very effective in shutting down the acid reaction in seconds.

I was a little disappointed that the etchant didn't really give the final finish of rusty roofing I expected...but what it does do is give the material great 'tooth' and a neutral gray which then allows easy weathering with chalks, washes, etc.  Nothing more frustrating than accidentally brushing roofing material with a finger and exposing bright silver.

Here's some etched Sodders roofing material that I then weathered with acrylics and weathering powders:



Logged

- Verne Niner
  "Better to light a candle than curse the darkness..."
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!