Westlake Publishing Forums

General Category => Cars, Trucks, and Other Vehicles => Topic started by: Scratchman on April 14, 2010, 04:56:20 PM



Title: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 14, 2010, 04:56:20 PM
Here's two photos of an old wagon that I came across in Salt Lake City, Utah. The wagon is from some place in  Europe.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2751/4521941826_b6c1a7b1af_b.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2741/4521307315_9ab571a4d0_b.jpg)

Let's see your wagon photos.

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on April 15, 2010, 07:29:21 AM
Good reference photos, thanks.

Here's a series of photos of really nice wagon models photographed in 1945 for Life Magazine

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=eafb4168239b8fff&q=wagon%20source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwagon%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26ie%3DUTF-8%26tbs%3Disch:1#

Notice the photo of the builder, shows what a master craftsman can do with low tech on his kitchen table!

Dave


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 15, 2010, 08:17:05 PM
Thanks, Dave. That guy is a master craftsman scratch builder if there ever was one. Museum quality stuff.  They look like they are at least 1:12 scale maybe even a bit bigger. I wonder where they are now and what they are made out of. I count around 31 models. Just wonderful model building.

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: RoughboyModelworks on April 15, 2010, 09:01:20 PM
Those are fantastic. I seem to remember seeing a book about his models many years ago, maybe 45 or so, at the public library. The pictures sure did ring a bell. His wagon plans are available online at Wild Horse Books & Art (http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/collins.htm). The site also has many colour photos of his wagons.

Paul

Edit: From what I've been able to find out, the Oregon Historical Society (http://www.ohs.org/index.cfm) holds his collection.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: David King on April 15, 2010, 09:58:24 PM
How about a wagon sled.

(http://images17.fotki.com/v529/photos/3/361316/5958385/IMG_1737-vi.jpg)

David



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: NORCALLOGGER on April 15, 2010, 10:54:29 PM
Hi all,
Here is a stage I found in the museum at Pioneer Park in Fairbanks, Alaska last month.

Also a set of Big Wheels that were built right here in town in the 1920's used in the woods in the local area then put on  display for years.  About 5 years ago they were completely and professionally restored and are now used for display at events like the Logging Conference.

 


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 15, 2010, 11:00:37 PM
David that sled is just what I had in mind for this thread.

Paul What a great link. To see the collection in color just totally blows me away. I've got to order a plan or two just to see what there like.They are twice the size of my models, lots of room for detail.  

Gordon Birrell

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 15, 2010, 11:16:41 PM
Thanks Rick for the photos.

Here's two wagons from Pipe Springs AZ



(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2646/4140372054_d9f3c44b57_b.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2710/4139610791_b26298b4dd_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 15, 2010, 11:36:54 PM
Pipe Springs this links has a lot of old pioneer stuff. The masonry on the fort is very nice.

http://www.delange.org/PipeSprings2/PipeSprings2.htm

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on April 16, 2010, 02:08:11 AM
If anybody builds a wagon close to the caliber of the ones in Paul's link I'll publish an article in the Modelers' Annual. (Are you reading this, Gordon?) All these wagons and models are wonderful. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on April 16, 2010, 06:09:19 AM
Thanks for the links Paul!   I'd wondered what became of these models, really good to know they are still around and kept safe in a museum.    Looks like you found me another book I need to buy.    :D
Dave


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 18, 2010, 01:10:14 AM
Here's an old horse-drawn ore wagon on display at the mining museum in Tonopah, NV:

(http://www.raydunakin.com/Site/Ore_Wagon_files/Media/IMG_3533c/IMG_3533c.jpg)


And here's a link to more pics of this wagon:

http://www.raydunakin.com/Site/Ore_Wagon.html (http://www.raydunakin.com/Site/Ore_Wagon.html)



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Frederic Testard on April 18, 2010, 05:32:51 AM
Thanks for the shot and the link to more info, Ray.
That's a very instructive thread. The wagon sled would make a great unusual model.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: chester on April 18, 2010, 07:51:48 AM
Interesting article on Watson Wagon that built drop bottom wagons like the one Ray shows. Some measured drawings and more photos.

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/r/rex_watson/rex_watson.htm

I've always been impressed with the level of detail Jordan Miniatures manages with their 1/87 rendition of a buck board.

(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z79/chesterf/187%20models/wagon3.jpg)



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on April 18, 2010, 09:13:14 AM
Nice work on the wagon, Chester.  Very convincing wood and metal.   It would be hard to guess how small that model really is from your photo. 

I'm impressed with Jordan kits, in general.   Under the magnifying glass you can find mind boggling details like the Ford logo stamped on the running boards of their Model T, and wheel spokes that are every bit as good as a photo etched part.  No other plastic kit maker has matched the crisp finesse of Jordan parts.  And the dies must have been cut eons ago, with low tech.   I've spotted Jordan vehicles in photos of John Allen's layout.   Plus they are cheap!
Dave


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 18, 2010, 10:14:24 AM
Ray, thanks for the info on the Dump Bottom Wagon. It's close to the Dump Bottom Wagon in the Kemtron plan book #15 

Chester, nice job on the Jordan kit and thanks for adding the article on the Watson wagon.

Here's a scan of the cover Wagons Kemtron plan book #15. The book also has plans for a 1925 Ice Wagon and a 1870 Wells-Fargo Mud Wagon.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/4531546966_2cf255f5b1_b.jpg)

Here's a scan of the cover Heavy Motor Trucks Kemtron plan book #14.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2753/4531547386_8b36f17e6a_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 18, 2010, 10:22:27 AM
The last time I checked these Kemtron plan books were still available though Precision Scale Co.

Gordon Birrell

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on April 18, 2010, 12:22:18 PM
Those plans look very interesting.  Is there much commercial interest in 1/48 horse drawn wagon kits?  They look like something I could get excited about. 


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on April 18, 2010, 12:35:27 PM
I happen to model the pre-automobile era but I'm in a tiny minority. Most narrow gaugers model 1935 and later. And the standard gauge market couldn't have more than a dozen modelers of the pre-auto era in all scales combined.

But you might sell kits to people who just like wagons regardless of their interest in trains. Somebody at a recent NG Convention sold some laser cut wagon kits and a few of my friends bought them.

Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 18, 2010, 01:28:38 PM
Grandt Line has some great 1:48 scale wagon wheels.

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: LeOn3 on April 18, 2010, 02:14:01 PM


But you might sell kits to people who just like wagons regardless of their interest in trains. Somebody at a recent NG Convention sold some laser cut wagon kits and a few of my friends bought them.

Russ

I don't know if you mean this guy Russ, but I recently found this on the internet and I think that these wagons are some nice kits to build although I've never seen one for real. http://www.g-m-e.com/images/HO_S_O_WATER_WAGONS.jpg

Leon


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on April 18, 2010, 02:23:24 PM
Hm, yeah... once again... I am well outside the mainstream.

But these wagons are so cool, maybe I will do a one-off in 1/48.   Or maybe just a set of technical drawings.  Simply out of personal interest.   

Russ is this something you'd be interested in for an article? 

Dave   


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on April 18, 2010, 07:07:33 PM
Absolutely.

Dave, if you were going to the trouble of an article, then I would approach it this way: How a laser kit manufacturer designs a wagon from the ground up. If you build it with a really nice finish, then I would want the steps you go through to achieve that as well. Your company name would be included in the article to encourage people to check out your product line.

Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on April 18, 2010, 07:53:33 PM
Hi Russ

That sounds like a really good plan.   Maybe I'll do that beer wagon.   :)

Dve


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 18, 2010, 10:11:55 PM
That ore wagon is one of the many things on my long list of "someday" projects -- things that aren't a high priority but would be fun to build. I'm modeling a later era but I could have it as a "historical display" in one of my mining towns.



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 29, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Here's more wagon photos. These are sitting in Fairview, Utah.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2073/1956988698_586f398858_b.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2007/1956986994_e289f934cc_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell


http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on May 04, 2010, 08:49:02 AM
Got the Ivan Collins book yesterday, quick & courteous service from Wildhorse Books, and well worth the money.   Beautiful models, well photographed.  A few plans in the back, too.   Collins built some cartwright's tools in the same scale of his models, like a tire bending machine, then actually used them to build the models.   

Thanks for finding that link Paul. 

Dave



Those are fantastic. I seem to remember seeing a book about his models many years ago, maybe 45 or so, at the public library. The pictures sure did ring a bell. His wagon plans are available online at Wild Horse Books & Art (http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/collins.htm). The site also has many colour photos of his wagons.

Paul

Edit: From what I've been able to find out, the Oregon Historical Society (http://www.ohs.org/index.cfm) holds his collection.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: searoom on May 07, 2010, 06:20:05 PM
For several years Don Kralik at Xeodon had three excellent 1/48 wagon kits.        http://xeodonrail.com/
These were very accurate and delicately cast in resin. They are now out of production but perhaps Don could be coaxed......


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 26, 2010, 11:27:33 PM
Dave I'm ordering the book and a few sets of plans. Would you list the plans in the book for me so I don't end up with two sets of plans for the same wagon?

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on May 27, 2010, 04:59:38 PM
Hi Gordon

You'll really like this book!  I'm cautious about buying more books these days, as I have too many, but this one is excellent if you're interested in model wagons. 

The plans in back are Concord Coach, Road Coach, Albany Sleigh, Hearse, Dump Wagon and Sheepherder's Wagon.  They're reproduced pretty small though, about 7.5" x 5".

Dave 

 


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 27, 2010, 11:47:26 PM
Dave, thanks for the help.   

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 28, 2010, 12:03:58 AM
Here's a link to the Lindsey 8 Wheel Logging Wagon.

http://www.samlindsey.com/Logging/8Wheel/Lindsey_Wagon_Pics1.asp

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 28, 2010, 05:58:40 PM
Here's a great historical film on the San Francisco cable cars in 1906 with a lot of wagons moving around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=NINOxRxze9k

Gordon Birrell


http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: LeOn3 on May 29, 2010, 02:07:34 PM
Nice film Gordon.

Can you imagine this nowadays? Cars, wagons, bikers (didn't see Marc  ;) ) crossing the street from left to right and back without noticing each other as I didn't see any vehicle with a rearview mirror.

Leon


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: eTraxx on May 29, 2010, 02:23:05 PM
Gordon. Thanks bunches. That was great.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 29, 2010, 03:58:14 PM
FWIW....some wagon catalog pages from my stuff.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 29, 2010, 03:59:00 PM
Pg.2


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 29, 2010, 03:59:32 PM
Pg. 3


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 29, 2010, 04:00:20 PM
...and Pg. 4


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: chester on May 29, 2010, 05:21:12 PM
Thank you Marc, great reference stuff.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 30, 2010, 01:43:03 AM
Thanks guys for your input.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/len_elg/1810243534/sizes/o/

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 30, 2010, 02:04:36 AM
Here's a paddy wagon.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/len_elg/1812316991/sizes/o/

Gordon Birrell


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 30, 2010, 02:21:19 AM
Here's a paddy wagon.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/len_elg/1812316991/sizes/o/

Gordon Birrell


Hmmm...maybe someone can refresh my memory......I can't seem to recall when exactly they started using plywood panesl on a welded square-tube steel frame, and cheap welded tube steel bars/door, to build prisoner enclosures with in the wild west. ??? ::)  I must have been absent that day. ;)


MR


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 30, 2010, 03:19:58 AM
The top looks like a mock up. The bottom is probably just an old farm wagon.

Here's an old tinkers wagon.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38319201@N00/4631604260/sizes/l/in/pool-14581414@N00/

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: chester on May 30, 2010, 04:56:06 AM
And here's the old tinker.

(http://www.uwo.ca/modlang/Comp%20Lit%20Undergrad/The%20thinker.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 30, 2010, 07:29:05 AM
Here's two photos of an old hay wagon.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3208/3047736784_4d33c250d4_b.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/3047736716_05c0895cb0_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 30, 2010, 07:45:03 AM
One more old farm wagon.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3242/3071951564_eae3c7f8b0_b.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/3071951232_dc7d2298a6_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on May 30, 2010, 11:03:19 PM
Nice film Gordon.

Can you imagine this nowadays? Cars, wagons, bikers (didn't see Marc  ;) ) crossing the street from left to right and back without noticing each other as I didn't see any vehicle with a rearview mirror.


Those street scenes looked like pure chaos! Lots of near-misses, including two female pedestrians forced to jump out of the path of an automobile that veered in their direction.




Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Richard Schmitt on June 05, 2010, 06:44:55 PM
I built some of the 1:20 laser kits from Grizzle Mountain Engineering. I did add some detail so they could be used in the background on the moduar layout. Here are some photos of the farmers wagon.
Richard


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on June 05, 2010, 09:29:48 PM
Very nice! Do the horses come with the kit?



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Richard Schmitt on June 06, 2010, 06:50:17 AM
Hi Ray,
No, the horses did not come with the kit. These laser cut wagon kits are very basic models and not a lot of detail. Some of the things I added are the metal wheel rims, brake assembly, hubs for the wheels and I also changed the wheel axles so they would turn. The wood barrel and hand tools were also added. The horses are from Schleich and the harness is from an old Budweiser wagon kit that was 1:20 scale.
Richard


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: eTraxx on June 06, 2010, 07:25:29 AM
Here's a buggy in 1:32 created from paper and wire. Pretty sweet ..

Thread (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/civilian-wheels/7600-coach-buggy-series.html)

(http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab130/LCRRinHO/General%20Photos/buggy.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on June 06, 2010, 12:27:19 PM
I'm sure it must be a wonderful model. The site blocks access to images unless you are a member. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: eTraxx on June 06, 2010, 01:07:12 PM
I'm sure it must be a wonderful model. The site blocks access to images unless you are a member. -- Russ
My bad. I uploaded it to my PhotoBucket account and changed the link.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on June 06, 2010, 06:08:27 PM
Incredible! Great works, looks like the real thing.



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: toenailridge on July 15, 2010, 09:30:39 PM
Here's one of mine....
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs439.ash1/24263_1347654124679_1031079018_31000649_7474607_n.jpg)
Made from GR plans...
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs379.snc3/24263_1347654164680_1031079018_31000650_129523_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: toenailridge on July 15, 2010, 09:47:25 PM
More pix of my horse drawn wagons...
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs188.snc4/37758_1441006698435_1031079018_31245828_2436238_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs088.ash2/37758_1441006618433_1031079018_31245826_7279670_n.jpg)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs188.snc4/37758_1441006658434_1031079018_31245827_5067724_n.jpg (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs188.snc4/37758_1441006658434_1031079018_31245827_5067724_n.jpg)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs192.snc4/37920_1441005338401_1031079018_31245822_1166251_n.jpg (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs192.snc4/37920_1441005338401_1031079018_31245822_1166251_n.jpg)
LOTS more pix here if you're on Facebook....
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=1031079018&aid=2030951#!/album.php?aid=2030951&id=1031079018&page=6 (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=1031079018&aid=2030951#!/album.php?aid=2030951&id=1031079018&page=6)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on July 25, 2010, 09:00:51 AM
Here's two more wagons I found on vacation.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4822478366_f56a1d3942_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4821861211_c317aff343_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 25, 2010, 06:45:10 PM
Where did you see those wagons? Is that first one a buckboard?



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on August 01, 2010, 02:24:52 PM
Ray, I saw these wagons  in southern Utah. The first one I think is a farm wagon, I think a buckboard is shorter.
here is one more wagon using a Studebaker frame of some type.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4822478802_6c6072a3cb_b.jpg) 

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: chester on August 03, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
These are part of the static display at the Owl's Head Transportation Museum in Thomaston, Maine.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on October 06, 2010, 11:51:42 PM
Here's a wagon I found in Tonopah, Nevada.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/5059205392_b37c2eedac_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: chester on October 07, 2010, 06:42:35 PM
Isn't that what they used to bring the bikini clad beauties to Uncle Russ's?


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: eTraxx on October 07, 2010, 07:35:26 PM
Isn't that what they used to bring the bikini clad beauties to Uncle Russ's?
.. apparently. It .. WOULD .. keep them from escaping en route. Similar to taking someone to a hanging I imagine.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on October 08, 2010, 03:03:49 AM
They used those open air wagons in the old days. Now they arrive in plush, air conditioned buses. Oh, the sacrifices I make to keep those beautiful bikini girls satisfied ....  -- ssuR


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: TRAINS1941 on October 14, 2010, 06:44:36 PM
Chester & Gordon

Great pictures!!

And Russ stop the day dreaming will you ;D

Jerry


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on November 15, 2010, 10:14:09 AM
Buckboards, as I remember them, always had sides.   I suppose there's exceptions as always.   It seems the Wikki site and others use a very loose interpretation of the word and images range all over the place.
Generally a buckboard is a short farm vehicle with one or two seats.   It is NOT a farm wagon so to speak.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on November 15, 2010, 10:28:36 AM
A buckboard is a four-wheel open carriage with the seat or seats attached to a flexible board running between the front and rear axles.

Gordon Birrell  

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/

Your right Dave, these three wagons are box or spring wagons.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Frederic Testard on November 24, 2010, 02:58:28 PM
Seen on Flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/almcorona/2058125600/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: gin sot on November 28, 2010, 12:36:20 PM
(http://scrc.lib.ncsu.edu/pairtree_root/00/50/30/6/0050306/0050306-show.jpg)

Loading watermelons from a wagon into a ventilated boxcar, somewhere in North Carolina, 1928.  Looks like the print is reversed.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: okiecrip on November 28, 2010, 02:08:00 PM
great photos. like old wagons and mules and such


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on November 28, 2010, 02:16:45 PM
Looks like that wagon must have had a fairly fancy paint job when it was new.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on November 28, 2010, 02:42:32 PM
I'd figure something like this Ivan Collins model.   Not really my area of expertise, but I guess a nice paint job would have been typical for a new wagon, as many commonplace things of that era were ornamented with paint and trim.     

Dave


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: johnbain on February 26, 2011, 07:18:30 PM
Here's a couple of sites devoted to this form of modelling

http://www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/


Then go to the forum and check out the "Progression of a Model" section, there's a few eye openers in there.

http://forum.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on February 26, 2011, 11:15:47 PM
Thanks, John for the links.

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: johnbain on February 26, 2011, 11:58:36 PM
(http://scrc.lib.ncsu.edu/pairtree_root/00/50/30/6/0050306/0050306-show.jpg)

Loading watermelons from a wagon into a ventilated boxcar, somewhere in North Carolina, 1928.  Looks like the print is reversed.

No, the print is not reversed, have a look at the centre bottom panel, you can just make out the word "studebaker", this company was making waggons long before they got into cars.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Malachi Constant on February 27, 2011, 09:15:52 PM
No, that doesn't (appear to) say Studebaker forwards or backwards -- save the photo, blow it up and have a look.  ???

Photo does NOT appear to be reversed -- you can clearly make out "A.C.L." (Atlantic Coast Line) on the boxcar door (if you zoom in on the photo).  ;)
-- Dallas


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gus on April 03, 2011, 06:36:34 PM
Hi Folks - I'd like to voice my appreciation to Scratchman for coming over to the SMHDV http://forum.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/index.php forum and providing the link back here (thanks Gordon :) ).

I had no idea that your type of modeling was out there ???....now I do and after many hours of exploring I can only marvel at the skill and artistic level presented.  And.........you do it so SMALL :o  I thought I did tinky little fussy stuff - my goodness....I'm out about 4 orders of magnitude :o

Cheers - Gus


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 03, 2011, 07:23:44 PM
Welcome aboard, Gus!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: eTraxx on April 04, 2011, 06:26:02 AM
I blew up the areas mentioned and tweaked them a bit in PSP .. like Dallas said, the A.C.L. shows the photo is not reversed. Anyone want to guess what it says on the wagon?


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on April 04, 2011, 07:57:56 AM
THORNHILL it was a wagon company


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: eTraxx on April 04, 2011, 10:14:24 AM
Dave. Hmmm .. had a thought. How about a sheet of Lasered signs .. like the 'THORNHILL' .. you could have all the manufacturers .. for example .. found this website .. Tractor and Farm Equipment Manufactures Development History Timelines (http://www.centralhawkeye.org/tractor_history.php)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on April 04, 2011, 10:33:00 AM
It really should be a decal, those markings were painted on, same as the pinstriping.   


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Malachi Constant on April 04, 2011, 04:03:35 PM
Welcome Gus!  And, that horse-drawn forum looks like a great place to go get lost for a while ... bookmarked!

Yeah, I'll buy "THORNHILL" ... now that we've got that name, it can be "seen" quite readily in the original photo.  Now that Dave mentions that all this was painted on, it becomes obvious too that this wagon was once quite nicely decorated.  Some additional lettering is still evident in the lower left panel ... they did a very realistic job of fading out the trim in most of the other panels.   ;)  -- Dallas


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 04, 2011, 11:59:07 PM
Here' a site I found over on the S.M.H.D.V. forum.

http://www.tucsonrodeoparade.com/pages001/Equip_vehicle_Album.htm

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on April 05, 2011, 02:03:42 AM
Ferraris, Porches, Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, and Maseratis of their day. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Mr Potato Head on April 07, 2011, 10:18:58 AM
In Sun valley Idaho they have the annual “Big Hitch” parade! I went last year, it’s during Labor Day and it’s the largest non-motorized Parade in the west! The wagons, coaches and the 20 mule team are a thing of wonder! And if you ever get a chance to go to the Calgary Stampede, those restored rigs and teams of Clydesdales are worth over a million apiece and they have dozens of them on display! You gotta go at least once!
MPH
http://www.visitsunvalley.com/static/index.cfm?action=group&contentID=535


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 09, 2011, 10:10:31 PM
I found this photo at a yard sale.


(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2791/5706067608_b89852e5a6_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: eTraxx on May 10, 2011, 04:35:27 AM
You can tell the guy was proud of the wagon. There's very good work there.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 27, 2011, 02:12:45 AM
Dont know how much of this is original and how much is just mocked-up, but I ran across this being used as a street sign/address.  Sorry pics aren't that great..was on my bike and only had my phone camera.

Marc


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 27, 2011, 02:13:30 AM
pic2


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 27, 2011, 02:14:12 AM
pic3


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 27, 2011, 02:15:18 AM
pic4


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 27, 2011, 02:16:12 AM
pic5


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mad gerald on May 27, 2011, 02:30:26 PM
... umm, well ... I got another one - not THAT old, but pretty ugly, once built by HATLAPA, a former manufacturer of Feldbahn diesel locomotives, rebuilt probably half a dozen times, now serving in a wildlife park:

(http://www.feldbahnmodellbau.de/gallery/image.php?album_id=11&image_id=125)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on May 27, 2011, 02:40:38 PM
Very neat Gerald,

Good reference for paint and weathering as well.


Marc


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on June 28, 2011, 01:36:08 PM
Thanks Marc and Gerald for the great wagon photos.

Here are three wagons that are in the antique power museum in Wallsburg Utah.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6037/5879400553_ae23a88faa_b.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5263/5879398913_7f6091878e_b.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5270/5879398387_266556c258_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gus on July 11, 2011, 08:38:11 AM
An old Spring Wagon in pretty bad shape.  Located in a back yard in town.  All the parts and pieces were still there and and allowed for detailed measurements.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/th_P1010002-10.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/P1010002-10.jpg)

...and the measurements allowed this 1:8 scale version to be built.  Had to guess on the colours but they were pretty standard for the times.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/th_Langewagondone004.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/Langewagondone004.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/th_Langewagondone009.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/Langewagondone009.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Chuck Doan on July 11, 2011, 10:42:26 AM
That is a great looking wagon! Well done.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on July 11, 2011, 03:25:31 PM
I wholley agree with Chuck. Nothing gives this away as a model.


Marc


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on July 11, 2011, 04:38:15 PM
Ditto, good stuff, Gus.

Dave


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on July 11, 2011, 04:54:43 PM
Nice job Gus, thanks for posting the photos.

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 11, 2011, 09:40:35 PM
Beautiful! Looks just like the real thing.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Frederic Testard on July 12, 2011, 03:28:14 AM
Nice model, Gus.
I really like this topic. What a great variety of inspiring wagons.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gus on July 12, 2011, 03:32:04 PM
Just to give an idea of what can be done with the plans available at... http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/    (previously mentioned in this thread)   Here's a jouney into the 'artsy-craftsy' end of things.  A 1/8 fancy buckboard.  Original plans were from John Thompson that he managed to draw before the original left a museum and got into private hands.  It's 'artsy-crafsty' because it would usually built out of the original/equivallent materials.....but this one is oiled American black walnut and brass.  Most of the plans available aren't too bad but I've heard that some are quite difficult to understand and others lack detail.  So far I've been lucky.....but one hears stories.......

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/th_Buckboarddone014.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/Buckboarddone014.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/th_Buckboarddone016.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/Buckboarddone016.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on July 13, 2011, 01:38:08 AM
Wagons are great things to model. Unfortunately the horses that go with them are another matter entirely. You do nice work, Gus. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gus on July 13, 2011, 06:22:32 AM
Thanks for the kind comments folks - and those coming from craftsmen whose work is astounding!!!!!

.........and that's why I stay a looooooooong ways away from horses Russ.

Cheers - Gus


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: chester on July 13, 2011, 07:18:43 AM
A beautiful buggy Gus. My favorite wood to work with.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 03, 2011, 10:45:51 PM
Thought I better be polite and say hello to everybody, so HI to ALL.

Gordon Birrell - aka - Scratchman, (thanks Gordon)  posted this site, over at the Horse Drawn Forum and I've been lurking around here for quite a while, I'm just amazed at what some of you lot have been getting up too.

I'm into horse drawn stuff mainly, so this thread/posting is right  up my ally. I've done other stuff as well, if anybody is interested, they can have a quick look thru here.

http://community.webshots.com/user/radish1us


To show you what I've been up to, here's one I made a few years ago. It's in 1/12th scale and is a Farmers Spring Waggon. I like doing Australian  horse drawn stuff, I get my plans from some books published here in Aust, which are full of drawings of these type of vehicles.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/170dcada.jpg)


regards  Graham


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on September 04, 2011, 02:32:09 AM
Satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on September 04, 2011, 02:48:56 AM
Very , Very nice ..............

Could you share a little detail on how you did all paintings , especially the lining on the wheels, etc.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 04, 2011, 04:31:15 AM
Satisfactory. -- Russ

Very , Very nice ..............

Could you share a little detail on how you did all paintings , especially the lining on the wheels, etc.


Only satisfactory ? ?  Hmm, wonder what you need to do for something better than that ? ?


The painting was just air brushed enamel house paint, the cheapest I could find. Used Testors SAND for the undercoat which works brilliantly, then hit it with blue, or, the cream for the undercarriage.

The striping is usually done with Corel Draw to create whatever design I'm after, and then onto a clear decal sheet, using an ALPS MD 5500 printer.

With the Farmers Spring Waggon, the red and cream striping on the blue body, is from some railway decals I got from a friend, then the centre scrolls/swirls are from some 1/25th model truck decal sheets, as are all the other fancy scrolls/swirls on the undercarriage.
If you look real close at the red & cream lining, you can just make out that each panel is made up of 8 different decal bits, to create that one panel, four corner bits and four straight bits were required, very tedious cutting and pasting them, now the ALPS does them as one bit.
All the striping on the wheels, was done with the ALPS printer.

regards  Graham



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/89ba3bfc.jpg)





Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on September 04, 2011, 07:51:46 AM
Thanks for the info Graham, wish I had access to an ALPS printer.

The close-ups are even better ........... have great admiration for the work you have done on this, the repetitive bits look identical a feat I can never achieve.

By the way a "satisfactory" from the man is high praise!!!!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on September 04, 2011, 08:40:03 AM
That is a LOT of decal work, and well done!   Now in 1:48 scale it would be another matter ;D ;D


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on September 04, 2011, 10:10:15 AM
Beautiful work on the wagon, Graham.   The pinstriping is just superb! 

Do you have your own Arps, and would you consider some printing some custom work?   Or swapping custom decals for custom laser cutting?

Dave


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on September 04, 2011, 05:34:37 PM
Wow! Excellent work! That wagon's a real beauty.

"Satisfactory" is indeed high praise from Russ. If he gets really worked up, he might even throw in a modifier, for instance, "Quite satisfactory".



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 04, 2011, 11:13:16 PM

"Satisfactory" is indeed high praise from Russ. If he gets really worked up, he might even throw in a modifier, for instance, "Quite satisfactory".



Woops, better back up a bit then and say, ---  Russ, thank you for the compliment.

regards  Graham


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 04, 2011, 11:19:02 PM


Do you have your own Arps, and would you consider some printing some custom work?   Or swapping custom decals for custom laser cutting?

Dave

Hi Dave, the possibilities here sound endless, please check your private messages.

regards  Graham


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 04, 2011, 11:55:58 PM
Here's one I've just finished.

It's a Sydney Brass Sulky in 1/8th scale, I had to go a bit bigger in scale to get in all the detail that's required.

Here's a picture of the original vehicle, that I got all the details to make the model from.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/dedc6bdb.jpg)



I used hundreds of decals on this model, all decals were done on the ALPS. Each wheel alone, has 75 decals added to it.
All nuts and bolts that can be seen are hand made, only used 2  store bought  3mm  nuts which are hidden away in the brass axle caps.


Here's the model.


regards  Graham






(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/b174031e.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/076d8e11.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/34e6ccef.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/dae4cc6e.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/4335b02b.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/7442a9d8.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/79cad4f6.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on September 05, 2011, 01:09:47 AM
Holy moly!!! That's one terrific model!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on September 05, 2011, 02:14:50 AM
Graham, please stop trying to pass off 1:1 scale horse drawn vehicles as models. How childish. Most satisfactory nonetheless. -- ssuR


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 05, 2011, 03:25:09 AM
Graham, please stop trying to pass off 1:1 scale horse drawn vehicles as models. -- ssuR

Hmm, I'll have to ignore that remark, eh. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


I didn't take too many progress photos as I didn't think they would be needed, anyway here's what I've got.


This one of the shaft tips.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/3501e2bf.jpg)



Photo etched the brass shaft steps at home using the "SteamPunk" method, it actually works.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/05b71f19.jpg)


Then rolled them to fit the shaft and used a jewellers saw to trim them from the bent sheet.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/efe1d354.jpg)


Tried making the seat out of timber, but it was way too heavy, a trawl thru many different forums and bingo, used the timber bits for 'bucks' for vacuum forming the bits out of 1mm styrene.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/f075d45b.jpg)


Then a few shots of it in a very bare state. I used whatever I could lay my hands on, that would do the job I required it to do. The main medium is timber, MYRTLE, then there's acrylic, aluminium, brass, bronzing rods, even silicone 'O' rings for tyres.
Ever tried to paint silicone, well, it can be done, but only if you use this product to seal it first.

http://www.zinsser.com.au/downloads/tech_data/BIN_Info.pdf



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/37a81b38.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/2c4675e1.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/f08786f9.jpg)


regards  Graham


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: EZnKY on September 05, 2011, 06:41:25 AM
Inspirational work Graham.
I love seeing people work with such skill and craft.  It gives me hope for our future...


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Carlo on September 05, 2011, 07:54:46 AM
Graham -
Do you have a link to the "Steam Punk" etching process?
Carlo


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: W.P. Rayner on September 05, 2011, 11:55:13 AM
Stunning work Graham... these are absolutely beautiful. The wheels alone are works of art in themselves...

Paul


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: DaKra on September 05, 2011, 12:06:29 PM
What Paul said!   The background is the only hint these are models.   

Dave
     


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 05, 2011, 11:07:15 PM
Graham -
Do you have a link to the "Steam Punk" etching process?
Carlo

Here you go Carlo, the thing you have to be very particular about, is keeping the brass CLEAN, I polished the brass sheet before applying the negative. To remove all traces of the polishing compound,  I wiped the brass with a clean rag dipped in thinners, if any residue from the polishing is left on the brass, then the negative will lift off, ruining the etching process.

Spotless is what is recommended, better believe it.

This has been posted before, I think I read it in the Tips, Tricks, Techniques & Tools section.

regards  Graham

http://steampunkworkshop.com/electroetch.shtml


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Mr Potato Head on September 06, 2011, 08:49:14 AM
Really nice work! how about some SBS (step by step) on how you make your wheels?
thanks
MPH


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 07, 2011, 12:30:32 AM
Really nice work! how about some SBS (step by step) on how you make your wheels?
thanks
MPH


Hi Gil, if you are interested in making a horse drawn vehicle, then have a look at this site.
I have allready added two sections on wheels, with-in this lot. -- ( look for the 'bits' by radish )

http://www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(Tips%20&%20Ideas).htm

There are many different types of wheels for horse drawn vehicles, ie - the 'sulky' wheels would not be able to be fitted onto a heavy waggon for instance.
You've heard the saying "horse's for course's", well, that's the same for wheels, there are so many variations that can be made, it's a bit hard to do one write-up, that would cover ALL types of wheels.

regards  Graham


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Mr Potato Head on September 07, 2011, 01:21:23 PM
Thanks I will have a look at this, I was recently at the “Big Hitch” Parade and the Calgary Stampede” and I fell in love with wagons, plus here at  43 degrees north, 116 degrees West, (Idaho)
There are a lot of wagons always on display. I also have a copy of the Collins book, which shows a lot of examples of really cool wagons, plus I have also seen them on display at the Oregon Museum of Western History. I was just looking for more “how to” info, because I didn’t want to reinvent the “Wheel” LOL
Thanks
MPH


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on September 08, 2011, 12:53:53 AM
Gil, have sent you a  PM.

regards  Graham


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on September 09, 2011, 05:13:05 AM
Very nice modeling Graham. Thanks for posting the photos and the information.

Gordon Birrell

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Chuck Doan on September 09, 2011, 09:34:35 AM
Yes, excellent work and inspirational too!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on September 25, 2011, 12:51:16 PM
Here's photos of three wagons I found on my two day road trip I took last week. The sheep-header wagon and the small wagon I found in Manila, Utah. The other wagon was at the Fort Bridger museum in Fort Bridger, Wyoming.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6170974775_d8ec3dbe04_b.jpg) 

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/6171507466_bcdae58d2f_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6152/6170975271_325f3541d0_b.jpg)

I have 36 other photos from this trip over on my Flickr page.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/

Gordon Birrell


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on October 15, 2011, 10:50:02 AM
I had this link sent to me for plans of a Studebaker wagon and a J.Deere.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kuntz/wagon.html (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kuntz/wagon.html)
Might be helpful for someone trying to build from scratch.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on October 21, 2011, 05:21:20 AM
Neat and informative stuff, thanks for sharing.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on October 23, 2011, 11:16:36 AM
Dave, thanks for posting the photos and the link to the plans.

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on October 24, 2011, 08:46:35 AM
You're welcome Gordon.   Now I'm just waiting to see your build of one of those.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on October 28, 2011, 10:10:40 PM
Here's a link I came across today.

http://www.guildofmodelwheelwrights.org/GOMW_vehicles.htm

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on October 29, 2011, 07:18:13 AM
Excellent link Gordon, what a great find of wagon modelers. 
I do suppose the 1:12th scale makes it a bit easier compared to my 1:48 thinking.
 8)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Mr scratchmod on November 01, 2011, 10:06:23 AM
wow, this is great. I wouldn't know where to start on one of these....especially making the wheels  >:(
Rob


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on November 12, 2011, 12:29:10 PM
 Hers a link to Carriage Hill Farm.

http://www.robertpence.com/oh_dayton/oh_carriage_hill_farm.html

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: michael mott on November 18, 2011, 04:34:15 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/4335b02b.jpg)

Graham, I just came to this thread, absolutely stunning workmanship! it is nice to see models that represent prototypes in concors condition.

Michael   


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on November 28, 2011, 04:36:45 PM
Here's three wagons located in Mapleton, Utah.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6421166647_a6031c9477_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7172/6421165897_506cbe1000_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6421165311_834f43f38c_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7154/6421164887_ace72e543a_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on November 29, 2011, 09:37:24 AM
Some more great wagons Gordon, thanks.
 B)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on December 22, 2011, 03:49:49 PM
I'm looking for a water wagon to go with my Buffalo Pitts traction engine and I ran across this site.

http://www.google.com/search?q=old+water+wagon&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=iaTzTvGRJrDViAKMmMG_Dg&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=867

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Les on February 16, 2012, 07:30:40 PM
Hi
In the January issue of NGSG was published a copy I submitted a drawing for an 1890 Night Cart held as part of the collection for  local transport museum out of Christchurch New Zealand. I attach additional photos for those interested
Regards
Les


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Les on February 16, 2012, 07:44:00 PM
Try again


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: marc_reusser on February 29, 2012, 04:18:07 AM
Gordon,

I really like those half round metal wagons. Thanks for the link.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on February 29, 2012, 02:18:48 PM
Why would anybody here submit material to the Gazette? We are a galaxy away from its approach. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: nemmrrc on February 29, 2012, 05:46:16 PM
Very cool thread this is. And the modeling displayed is just wonderful.

I found this old wagon at an antique store in Pigeon Forge, TN. I had no idea there was so much involved in a wagon wheel.

(http://www.narrowperspective.com/images/Daily_WagonWheel.jpg)

Jaime


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 29, 2012, 08:35:56 PM
Why would anybody here submit material to the Gazette? We are a galaxy away from its approach. -- Russ

Personally, I like to see advanced modelers share their knowledge in as many places as possible. Sort of "spreading the gospel" of fine modeling. The more people getting hooked on it, the more potential future readers/contributors you'll have.



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on February 29, 2012, 09:31:04 PM


I found this old wagon at an antique store in Pigeon Forge, TN. I had no idea there was so much involved in a wagon wheel.


Jaime

That wheel is quite a normal wheel, there are harder wheels to make than that one.

The wheel in the photo is a medium duty type of wheel, about good for a ton on it, the felloe is actually a steam bent two piece, which would make it about the 1900-20's manufacture.

The normal 12 spoke wheel of earlier construction, would have had 6 individual felloes fitted, two spokes per felloe, instead of the two steam bent felloes.

Some of the English type of wheels are weird with the dish so amplified, then again the American Sarvern type wheel is a different animal again.

For those interested in making model horse drawn vehicles, this site is well worth a real good look. Head to the Tips and Ideas section for info about making wheels.

 http://scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/ 

regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: nk on March 02, 2012, 01:33:44 PM
If anyone is in Palm Beach, FL, there is an exhibition of an important 19th and early 20th century American West collection at the Four Arts Society. On the lawn outside the building is a row of wagons and a cannon...inside is a fully restored Wells Fargo coach Well worth a look if you have the chance.

http://www.fourarts.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.one&content_id=1085&x=5290590 (http://www.fourarts.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.one&content_id=1085&x=5290590)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on March 03, 2012, 10:39:57 AM
Mario posted this link elsewhere and it has a number of good photos of old wagons, plus other stuff.   Fairplay, CO
http://modvid.com.au/html/body_fairplay.html (http://modvid.com.au/html/body_fairplay.html)
About half way down the page.
 8)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on March 08, 2012, 05:57:40 PM
Here's a old wagon I found near my home.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7209/6965498665_a11df10c05_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7069/6965498565_a4fdf76814_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/6819376176_4bf27f7f8b_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7040/6965498393_2981437089_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on March 15, 2012, 12:58:33 AM
Traveling Dark Room.

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/USHS_Class&CISOPTR=18679&CISOBOX=1&REC=10

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on March 15, 2012, 01:09:39 AM
Stump Puller.

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/USHS_Class&CISOPTR=6722&CISOBOX=1&REC=6

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on March 15, 2012, 08:17:50 PM
Board of health garbage wagons

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/USHS_Shipler&CISOPTR=4631&CISOBOX=1&REC=14

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gus on March 18, 2012, 08:36:32 PM
Then, of course, there's the good 'ol Galamander wagon.  I believe this one was used on Vinalhaven, Maine for hauling granite.  the granite blocks would be picked up by the windlass (long pole sticking above the vehicle) and slung under the heavy rear axle.  this photo indicates that the rear wheels are 12' high.  Seems a bit excessive but it's also hard to tell from an old photo.

I presently have the plans for this type about 75% complete to build a 1:8 but, as usual, getting fine detail on some of the wagons that can be located on the web is difficult.  One of these vehicles is on Vinalhaven Isl. presently and I contacted the owners (Historical Society) to see if I could arrange for some basic measurements and some better photo's.  Now, I was quite prepared to provide compensation for someone's efforts but the Director chose to insist that I build a complete 2nd model and donate it in return for the data and photo's.  Darn, sometimes a plan just doesn't seem to want to come together.  It is very difficult to get the required details on some builds that would be an absolute hoot to tackle unless someone has already made up some plans.......otherwise there's a lot of guessing going on as to actual scale when trying to (in this case) create plans from 5 oblique photo's.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/th_Galamander-MaineGraniteHistoricalSociety.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/rennugliat/Galamander-MaineGraniteHistoricalSociety.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on March 19, 2012, 07:16:25 AM
Gus, sounds like a good offer to me and a great opportunity to have one of your models on display in a museum.   It wouldn't be too difficult to build two of them once you have the dimensions and photos, just some time commitment on your part.
Good luck.
 8)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on March 19, 2012, 12:49:57 PM
Sorry to hear about that Gus. One hour or so of his time to help you out, and all he wants is hundreds and hundreds of hours from you. You do museum quality work and I am sure that your work will end up in a museum some day. It sounds like this guy has no idea how much work is involved in one of your masterpieces. When I asked the owner for help on the Tozer portable steam engine that I'm Modeling the guy has been just great and has given me more help than I ever expected.

Gordon Birrell

     http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gus on March 19, 2012, 03:25:22 PM
Hi Gord :D  Yup - including the plans the model will probably hit somewhere around 200 hours to get right.  Not a huge deal as I suspect that you are correct in that the guy really had no idea of what's involved.  On the good side, I found a 'Taber Wagon' at an auction near Edmonton last year and the guys at the auction were fantastic - photo's and measurements were happily provided as long as I displayed the model at the Spring Auction this year.  It's now done and I'm looking forward to the trip....and maybe find another vehicle that I can document while I'm there for a future build.  Sometimes it works.....sometimes it doesn't. ::) ;D

Cheers - Gus


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Terry Harper on March 20, 2012, 08:19:14 AM
Gus,

There is a Galamander of a slightly diffrent design in the Maine State Museum in Augusta and another one on display in Cherryfield Maine alongside route 182

If your interested in the one at the State Museum I would contact Kate McBrien - Curator of Historic Collections. She has been extremly helpful to me in the past - taking photos of details etc. for one of my projects. Indeed they might already have a set of drawings available.

Also, I am only about 45 min. away from the museum if I can be of assistance just let me know.

Best regards,
Terry


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gus on March 20, 2012, 11:23:21 AM
Gus,

There is a Galamander of a slightly diffrent design in the Maine State Museum in Augusta and another one on display in Cherryfield Maine alongside route 182

If your interested in the one at the State Museum I would contact Kate McBrien - Curator of Historic Collections. She has been extremly helpful to me in the past - taking photos of details etc. for one of my projects. Indeed they might already have a set of drawings available.

Also, I am only about 45 min. away from the museum if I can be of assistance just let me know.

Best regards,
Terry


Terry - thank you so very much for the contact name and the very kind offer.  I will contact Kate McBrien and see how that goes......then proceed from there.  I would very much like the model to be 'museum quality' but, at present, the lack of detail will make anything built designated as an 'of a type' build.  Perfectly acceptable in certain circumstances (drawing/interpreting from photo's) but not what I would really like to accomplish as an end product.

Thanks again and I'll let you know how it all works out.

Cheers - Gus ;D


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: chester on April 18, 2012, 07:10:50 AM
My 1/87 scale modeling Dutch friend Jeroen van der Ven, scratch built this wagon in styrene. The unusual terminal gear (which is p.e. brass)  is a device for lifting draught horses from the canal tow path. More of Jeroens work here:

http://87thscale.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=finished&action=display&thread=1812&page=4


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on April 18, 2012, 12:58:24 PM
Satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Malachi Constant on April 18, 2012, 02:42:26 PM
In 1/87 ... holy crap!  There's some amazing workmanship in all the tiny details there.  -- Dallas


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 18, 2012, 06:40:30 PM
In 1/87 ... holy crap!  There's some amazing workmanship in all the tiny details there.  -- Dallas

What he said!

Really incredible work for such a small scale.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Chuck Doan on April 19, 2012, 09:17:58 AM
Beautiful work, and very interesting prototypes. The bar is pretty high in HO these days.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: compressor man on April 19, 2012, 04:28:09 PM
Hi All,

First post here. I saw this thread on old wagons and couldnt help but to post one I built. This was built for a friend of mine. He asked me to build it as a Christmas gift for a friend of his. His friend has this old wagon on his farm and my friend (whew, this is getting a little confusing!) took me there and I took pictures so that I could build this model. I built it in 1/12 scale and did really light weathering. No rotting boards or crumbly rust. I wanted a wagon that looked like it was used every day. I think it turned out pretty well and so did my friend who decided to keep it for himself.  ;D

Chris


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on April 19, 2012, 04:54:58 PM
Wow, that came out very nice.   Now you need to start another one.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: TRAINS1941 on April 19, 2012, 06:03:09 PM
Beautiful work!!!  An in HO no less.

Jerry


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 19, 2012, 07:03:58 PM
Welcome aboard! Nice work on that 1/12th scale wagon.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: lab-dad on April 21, 2012, 07:10:14 AM
Welcome.
glad you posted that here.
like to see some lice of what else your working on..
I know its 1:1 but still like to see it!
enjoy
Marty


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on May 09, 2012, 11:10:25 AM
here,s two wagons made out of old truck parts.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7230/7165707166_dfd96b3afb_b.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8019/7165707060_e23c3c38e7_b.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7165707532_b942817741_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7081/7165707276_e55a13dd8d_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/





Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Les on June 26, 2012, 05:00:04 PM
I attach photos of a Russell Hi-way Patrol No2 horse pull grader with a 6 foot blade


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on June 27, 2012, 05:18:34 PM
Here's three more wagons.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7082/7397560544_5c2293e681_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7230/7397561154_3bb3316595_b.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8155/7397561780_77aea3c476_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: k27rgs on June 27, 2012, 08:31:54 PM
A few Aussie wagons.   

http://www.modvid.com.au/html/body_australian__history.html

regards  Mario


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: k27rgs on June 27, 2012, 08:34:30 PM
A few Colorado wagons amongst this lot

http://www.modvid.com.au/html/body_fairplay.html

regards   "M"


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on August 09, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Hi,

New here. My favorite subject, wagons. Have enjoyed the postings so far, hope to see more.  Want to test posting photos.  Here are some wagon thumbnail details that might be helpful if you want lots of detail in your model.
Click on photo to enlarge.
  Thanks all, Bill  (sometimes on yahoo aka Hank)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Wagons/th_hindgear.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Wagons/hindgear.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Wagons/th_fronthounds.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Wagons/fronthounds.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Wagons/th_axle.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Wagons/axle.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Wagons/th_sc006ae3ef.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Wagons/sc006ae3ef.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on August 09, 2012, 05:14:04 PM
Nice Photo pages Hank.   What publication did they come from?   I might like to get a copy.
Oh, and welcome to the forum.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on August 09, 2012, 05:47:03 PM
Nice Photo pages Hank.   What publication did they come from?   I might like to get a copy.
Oh, and welcome to the forum.

American Horse-Drawn Vehicles by Jack D. Rittenhouse.  It has over two hundred pictures of horse drawn vehicles I bought  my copy is from the late 1960s so not sure it is in print any more.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on August 09, 2012, 07:39:15 PM
Buckboards, as I remember them, always had sides.   I suppose there's exceptions as always.   It seems the Wikki site and others use a very loose interpretation of the word and images range all over the place.
Generally a buckboard is a short farm vehicle with one or two seats.   It is NOT a farm wagon so to speak.

Actually these are spring wagons, a light wagon used much like the modern pickup.  Extra seats could be added so they could be used much like a stage coach.  Gus built a very fine, high detailed 1/8th scale model of one shown a few pages back.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on August 09, 2012, 09:12:54 PM
Hello All,
I have spent hours browsing this forum and I can't find an end or bottom to the variety of talent here.

I guess I should introduce myself.  I'm Bill Hudson, I'm 80+ years old and a very long time modeler. I work in several scales and in several varieties of models but mostly in Horse Drawn Vehicles.  I work mostly in 1/12th scale but my favorite is 1/8th scale (display space in this scale is the real problem).  In the late 1950s and into the 60s I spent a lot of my spare time hanging around Ivan Collins studio and museum. I guess that is where I got bitten by the high detail scale modeling bug. Years later I had the privilege to repair some of Ivan's models for the Oregon Historical Society Museum In Portland, Oregon where they are now housed.  I also have worked in 1/48th scale mostly in white metal casting kits for horse drawn logging.  I was known as The Hudson Carriage Co.  I produced my own patterns and castings and also cast much of Bill Roy's early kits too.  My kits were logging high wheels kit with horses, eight wheel wagon kit, horses and some logging figures, a Fresno scraper, and a pan scraper.  After i had a heart attack I had to give up the casting.  I gave all my molds and kit supplies to Bill.  He worked under the name of Mckenzie Iron and Steel.  Bill recently passed away and has left a large hole in my friendship list. I still find myself reaching for the phone to chat with him.  

I also build miniatures for collectors.  You can see a video of some of them filmed by Oregon Public Broadcasting and shown on Oregon Art Beat.  The URL is below my name in my signature.  I also spent 14 years flying back to Maine to teach a week of class in building miniatures focused mostly around wheeled toys in 1/12th scale. I also designed and built the patterns for a Destroyer Escort model ship for Bluejacket Ship Crafters in Main. There isn't/wasn't enough time in this one life time to also go off any farther into ship models too.  

Y'all have the very fine resource of modeling genius in Greenie here but if I can help with American vehicles feel free to ask and I will try to find an answer.  Below is a shelf of some of my models I have kept for myself.  Most are in 1/8th scale. Click on the picture to enlarge.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_Shelf1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Shelf1.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_Shelf2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Shelf2.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_shelf3.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/shelf3.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_Shelf4.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Shelf4.jpg)

Below are some detail close ups of the logging sled.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_chain9.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/chain9.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_chain11.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/chain11.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_blink1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/blink1.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_Blink3.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/Blink3.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_chain2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/chain2.jpg)...(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/th_chain4.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/minis-etc/chain4.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on August 14, 2012, 12:34:36 PM
Good reference photos, thanks.

Here's a series of photos of really nice wagon models photographed in 1945 for Life Magazine

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=eafb4168239b8fff&q=wagon%20source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwagon%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26ie%3DUTF-8%26tbs%3Disch:1#

Notice the photo of the builder, shows what a master craftsman can do with low tech on his kitchen table!

Dave

I was quite fortunate to have had the privilege from 1958-1976 to spend many hours in Ivan's Museum of Miniature Wagons.  I learned a lot from Ivan.   Ivan was very fine man and good at sharing techniques with me although I never was allowed to do any work in his well kept shop.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on August 15, 2012, 11:55:47 PM
Welcome aboard, Bill! Great stuff there, I especially like the very realistic weathering on the logging sled.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on September 20, 2012, 09:21:12 PM
here"s some neat photos.
http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/r2/horse_drawn_vehicles/photo/7761.html
Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on June 17, 2013, 10:38:02 PM
Here's two more wagon photos.

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/9051046980_0c27c492de_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7415/9048816157_7f89ce1ae6_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on June 22, 2013, 09:41:10 PM
This wagon was new this year at the antique power show.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3709/9111559871_4cf0478ddd_b.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/9113781982_60b2a4b5c4_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on June 22, 2013, 09:55:50 PM
 Kids wagon.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7396/9113860176_b9f2f9bfb8_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on August 04, 2013, 01:10:20 AM
The buggy is at a museum in Delta, Utah. The unusual wheel are in Wanship, Utah. The photos were taken on day trips with two of my grand kids. the museum in Delta had some great antique.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/9331768728_2eb67ddb0e_b.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3760/9260675794_45cee1293e_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on August 20, 2013, 09:42:19 AM
Green with yellow wheels must have been popular, I've seen several old wagons with that color combination.



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: David King on August 20, 2013, 10:58:29 AM
I've never been to Delta Gordon, is it worth visiting?  Are there a lot of interesting old things to see there?

David


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on August 27, 2013, 06:39:15 PM
David, there's  a lot of farm stuff, a Case steam tractor in the park and I found these two fire trucks in the town of Deseret.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/9612309404_1b07216da6_b.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3711/9612309536_955f089e85_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Mr Potato Head on August 27, 2013, 07:26:00 PM
All You South Westerners! "the Big Hitch" Parade is this Saturday in Ketchum Idaho, it's the largest non motorized parade in the West!
Even though they had a disastrous fire the last two weeks they are still going on with the parade, Wagons and Surreys, and horse teams, even big fat Cabieros with beautiful Mexican horses and Senioritis clad in silver!
Don't miss it if your near, I'm going
MPH


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on August 27, 2013, 08:00:19 PM
Kids wagon.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7396/9113860176_b9f2f9bfb8_b.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/

Actually not a kids wagon. It is from Europe and is used to haul vegetable crops from the fields. A lot of them were imported to US in the 80s and sold as antiques in the shops.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on August 27, 2013, 08:03:06 PM
All You South Westerners! "the Big Hitch" Parade is this Saturday in Ketchum Idaho, it's the largest non motorized parade in the West!
Even though they had a disastrous fire the last two weeks they are still going on with the parade, Wagons and Surreys, and horse teams, even big fat Cabieros with beautiful Mexican horses and Senioritis clad in silver!
Don't miss it if your near, I'm going
MPH

Of course there will be a lot of pictures posted here of the parade for us who can't be there to see.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on December 19, 2013, 06:03:07 PM
An attempt to bring this forward. Hate to see the wagons buried. Wish more would model them.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on April 14, 2014, 10:26:24 PM
Here's two air compressors I think there both in Tonopah Nevada.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7184/13790602315_897d93e8c8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/n1CrBr)IMG_9039 (https://flic.kr/p/n1CrBr) by Gordon Birrell (https://www.flickr.com/people/77318580@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3684/13790628883_ace170f80e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/n1Czvv)IMG_8961 (https://flic.kr/p/n1Czvv) by Gordon Birrell (https://www.flickr.com/people/77318580@N00/), on Flickr

Gordon Birrell

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 15, 2014, 02:54:33 PM
That tank in the background (compressed air?) is interesting. It's put together like a big spiral-wound, riveted pipe.




Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on December 07, 2015, 11:54:44 PM
Thought I better resurrect this thread from the deep dark past, so here is the latest build, it's a 1/12th scale Butchers Light Order Cart, enjoy.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/0001%20copy_zpseaq57rfp.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/0003%20copy_zpsm5u5ipvi.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/0002%20copy_zpsxxu21peo.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/0006%20copy_zpsflqunpob.jpg)




regards  greenie  








Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on December 08, 2015, 01:58:12 AM
I thought we had seen the last of those beautiful wagons but that one is as gorgeous as anything I've seen. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Allan G on December 08, 2015, 05:38:13 AM
Totally awesome Greenie!!!!! Allan


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on December 08, 2015, 07:52:03 AM
Huzzah! Huzzah! HUZZAH!!!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Hydrostat on December 08, 2015, 09:19:25 AM
Oh lord, that's something! Please let those spoke ornaments be decals ...

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Carlo on December 08, 2015, 12:11:42 PM
Could you (or anyone else) please point me to a tutorial on making wagon wheels like these?
Thanks, Carlo


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on December 08, 2015, 12:34:40 PM
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful….

Carlo, checkout here for basic wheel making.    http://www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(Tips%20&%20Ideas).htm#wheels

http://www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(Scale%20Wheels).htm

Bill


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on December 08, 2015, 04:48:55 PM
Russ, you have definitely OVER EXERTED yourself with such a 'glowing oratory', I do thank you ----------------- ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)


Carlo, if your going to make a WAGGON wheel, then please do a lot of research on the particular vehicle that you want to model, as not ALL wooden spoked wheels are the same as what is in those tutorials. A "waggon wheel" is a lot heavier in construction, than what a "buggy wheel" would be.

What is written in those tutorials, is just a "generalization" of how I do wheels.

regards  greenie 


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: michael mott on December 08, 2015, 05:04:30 PM
Greenie your model reminds me of why I became interested in model-building, way back when I was a kid and saw models like yours though probably no where near as beautifully made. They were in the science museum in London and I spent hours looking at them.
There is a museum south of here called the Remington Carriage Museum http://www.history.alberta.ca/remington/ (http://www.history.alberta.ca/remington/) they have a section that the public can view where they still repair and make carriage wheels.

Michael


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on December 08, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Holy carp! Stunning work. With a different background, it would be indistinguishable from the prototype.

How did you do that fine lettering and striping? Decals?



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Chuck Doan on December 08, 2015, 11:46:45 PM
This is truly stunning. No exaggerating.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on December 09, 2015, 12:49:39 AM

All the fancy lettering and pinstriping is done using CorelDraw, then printed onto a clear decal sheet using an Alps MD 5500 printer, I just cant find a 'leprechaun' who can do pinstriping, anybody know where one is hiding, eh. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Mr Potato Head on December 09, 2015, 07:11:39 AM
Thanks for clearing that up, nice job on the pin striping, I saw the exhibition of Albert Collins work at the Oregon historical society over 30 years ago and I was was blow away, your work is spectacular !
MPH


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: 5thwheel on December 09, 2015, 08:38:22 AM
MPH are you maybe thinking of Ivan Collins? I got my interest in model carriages and wagons from him. I used to hang out in his little wagon museum when it was located on the University of Oregon campus in the elate 1950s.

Bill


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Mr Potato Head on December 09, 2015, 07:31:29 PM
No Bill
I was referring to Albert, Ivan's twin brother, lesser know but just as talented
 ::) ::) ::) ::)
MPH


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on April 15, 2016, 12:06:27 AM
Been a bit busy and this "thingy" popped out of the shed, tried my hand at making one that's still able to be fitted to a horse.

Here's the full sized one ------


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/12063359_10207735565724701_2700740792786753785_n%20copy%202_zpsnqb2vjgc.jpg)


Plenty of photographs with a heap of measurements, then onto the computer and draw it all to scale, then started on it. 

Enjoy ------------

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_2807%20copy_zpskitpex9v.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_2815%20copy_zpsonjg8oyd.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_2820%20copy_zpso7uhabuc.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_2814%20copy_zpsue731t9s.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_2809%20copy_zpspeidazey.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_2826%20copy_zps0c5jpmh2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_2807%20copy_zpskitpex9v.jpg)


regards  greenie 



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on April 15, 2016, 12:54:41 AM
Most satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on April 15, 2016, 05:59:09 AM
Another jewel! Magnificent is an understatement.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Design-HSB on April 15, 2016, 06:12:48 AM
hard to believe that it is a model. thank you to you for showing.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on April 15, 2016, 10:48:40 AM
Certainly magnificent , just love the details from the square headed bolts to the  paint work and the pin striping (decals?)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: TRAINS1941 on April 15, 2016, 01:23:31 PM
That is just awesome beautifully done.

Jerry


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 15, 2016, 08:40:08 PM
Holy cow! (or should I say chicken?)   That is amazingly awesome! What scale?



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on April 15, 2016, 09:05:23 PM
Whoops, should have added this photo as well, it's 1/12 th scale.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_2849_zpsteh1xx14.jpg)



regards  greenie 


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on April 15, 2016, 11:06:16 PM
Ray Dunakin, well you should say 'holy cow' as the vehicle is actually an old Milk Cart, Bob Bone found it in a very bad way, but there was enough of the original timber bits left on it, so he could use them as a pattern.

He rebuilt it, but about now here's the problem, Bob had NO cows, but he had plenty of chooks, so it was painted as a Egg Cart.
Notice the two cut-outs at the bottom of the tail-gate at the rear, they were so the spigots on the milk churns, could stick out in the open and be used to fill any empty vessel that you wanted filled with fresh milk.

regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Barney on April 18, 2016, 05:53:45 AM
Just could not believe it is a model but the ruler gave it away - lovely stuff in fact excellent
Barney


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on April 18, 2016, 03:13:33 PM
So that's what those two cutouts on the tailgate were originally for! I was half wondering if the cart carried live chickens, the customer held her egg basket next to the cutout of her choice (brown eggs or white eggs?) and waited for very fresh eggs :)

More seriously, would a milk cart and an egg cart be considered types of "dog carts"?


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on April 18, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
Hi Bill, as a general rule of thumb, - a Cart - is meant to be any horse drawn two wheeled vehicle, a Lorry,Trolley or Waggon is a four wheeled horse drawn vehicle, so, a "Dog Cart", is just another type of cart.

A Dog Cart is so named, because it's used for carrying dogs around, in under the seat.
It gets a bit confusing about now, because sometimes a "four wheeled vehicle" is even called a Dog Cart as well, it's a bigger version and carries a lot more dogs, hence the four wheels, as well as persons/shooters/hunters on the seats, got me beat why a four wheeled vehicle is 'still' called a Cart though.
This is actually the only "anomaly" regarding the naming of horse drawn vehicles, that I can think of right now.

There is a plethora of different types of horse drawn vehicles and all were mainly used for specific purposes, sometimes one type of vehicle could be used for a few different purposes, but a lot were built for the one type of job at hand.

regards  greenie


ps - for further research, please have a look at this link and it will all be explained.

https://regencyredingote.wordpress.com/2009/06/05/the-regency-sport-utility-vehicle/





Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 02, 2016, 05:12:47 PM
Here's something that's a 'wee' bit different (pardon the pun), a Sanitary Waggon made to 1/12th scale. I don't think that there would have been too many models ever made, of the old "dunny cart" eh.
Used the drawings of J.E.Bishop once again, printed in the Coachbuilder & Wheelwright, May 15, 1917.
Don't know why it's called a Waggon, when it's really just a Lorry with a box on top.
Then again the name "dunny cart", is surely a bit of a 'misnomer' as well.

 --------------------------- Oh, NO smell or flies with this one -----  ;D ::)

regards    greenie


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/IMG_2999_zpsrr46jydy.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/IMG_3000_zpsn3yhqehi.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/IMG_3005_zpsav36zj5u.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/IMG_3006_zpsum3p4syi.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/IMG_3015_zpscyhgl975.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/IMG_3021_zpsg1xttuyk.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/IMG_3022_zpspxgd9awd.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/IMG_3035_zpsjehews83.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 02, 2016, 09:29:34 PM
Beautiful rendition of an unusual, utilitarian subject!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on July 03, 2016, 12:46:27 AM
Your models are incredibly satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on July 03, 2016, 05:46:49 AM
Amazing how much effort they put into decorating what is often called a "honey bucket" on this side of the pond. Another terrific model!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on July 03, 2016, 01:43:01 PM
The "honey wagons" here had provisions for loading long slide in trays that had been slid under the outhouse rather than buckets.
Not a pleasant job
And no wagon here was anywhere near that fancy.
Excellent work.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 03, 2016, 04:32:54 PM
———And NO waggon here was anywhere near that fancy ———

Well,  ---  actually that is a very basic single colour scheme used on that ‘dunny cart’, it would have been about the bare minimum applied to a vehicle, before it would have been allowed to leave the manufacturing premises.

Most people do not realise, that these old vehicles were a riot of colour, as it was the manufactures method of advertising their wares, the better looking/flasher a vehicle was, the easier it was noticed and the more business it generated, simple, eh.

The painting of the vehicles also protected the bare timber from the ravages of time,  now-day’s most of these vehicles have been neglected for many decades and just parked out under a tree somewhere. The paint has deteriorated over time and flaked/fallen of the timber, so they are just bare timber now and a lot of people think that is how they were sold.

What they originally would have looked like, ------------- well that's now a long lost faded memory.

Even a simple Farm Waggon, had quite a bit of ‘flash’ added to it to make it stand out.

Here’s a few sites for perusal, they have some of these old vehicles as they were originally painted.
Please note the two tone paint schemes used and all the pin striping and fancy scroll work that was added to even a simple hard working farm waggon.


 http://www.hansenwheel.com/custom-showcase/custom-vehicle-showcase/farm-wagon/

http://www.oxbowwagonsandcoaches.com/horse-drawn-antiques-restorations.html



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sanitary%20Waggon/untitled11_zpsydkrxlxc.jpg)



regards   greenie




Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on November 02, 2016, 05:43:04 AM
Time to give this lot a kick in the pants once again.

Saw this in a book and thought, yep, I got the drawing for that, so it's time to get busy once again.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/Book%20of%20Designs_zpsnkig5kr8.jpeg)




It's a Sydney Meat Waggon and this design kind of replaced all others, it has the carcasses hanging from overhead hooks, just like modern trucks do today.
Previous to this design, they just laid the carcasses on the floor and stacked them like logs, one on top of the other, so this new design was a bit more hygienic and plenty of these were made and used.
Had the actual drawings from J.E.Bishop once again, these were printed in the Coachbuilder and Wheelwright, July 1902, so just worked direct from the drawing.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/untitled22_zpsqufb0cnb.jpg)





Had a bit of luck and managed to get a coloured photo taken way back in the 1960's, of one of these waggons that had been repainted to be used in the Sydney Royal Show back then. The bloke in white coveralls is the son of the fella that started a signwriting business in Sydney in the 1910's, or there-a-bouts and he painted the vehicle using virtually the same colour scheme, as what was used on the vehicle originally . His son is in the photo on the right hand side, this fella is now in his late 80's and still kickin', only he's got Parkinsons today.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/Tancred%20Meat%20Waggon%201_zpsiqcfvsqv.jpg)





Started on it and once again, forgot to take any progress shot's, sorry, only got this one shot of it before painting.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/IMG_3088%20copy_zpsxwtlpfbi.jpg)




Started painting it and doing the decals in home using CorelDraw and the ALPS MD5500 printer.


The rear doors I cheated with the reddish colour, I splashed some paint onto a decal sheet, then just cut out the squares and stuck them onto the doors, used another decal over the colour patch, bingo, saved a headache trying to mask of the doors.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/IMG_3090%20copy_zps0ph8dvjl.jpg)



The name plate that goes down each side of the Waggon, that decal was about 6 inches long and an inch wide, bit of a bug bear to get it into the correct position and stay there as it was being stuck down.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/IMG_3180%20copy_zpstelv7noj.jpg)



Splashed around a bit of colour and added a few decals onto the turntable ( 5th Wheel )

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/IMG_3197_zpszdyjm6ag.jpg)




What the finished product looks like ------------ only got the two lamps to finish and it will then be complete.

Any questions or queries, you know what to do, enjoy -----

regards  greenie  





(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/IMG_3223_zpsbighuzu8.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/IMG_3208_zpsargqo3xu.jpg)





 





Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: NORCALLOGGER on November 02, 2016, 09:47:31 AM
Just incredible!!!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 02, 2016, 12:15:22 PM
What a wonderful hobby where you can create and present such eye-pleasing results!
I am sure my wife would carry me on her shoulders through the house if I could show her such a pieces of art ... ;)

Congrats,
Peter


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on November 02, 2016, 01:21:11 PM
Yet another humiliating model. You are absolutely incorrigible.

That aside, I may be even more impressed by the finish you applied now that I've seen the raw wood you start with. I would assume you began with some kind of sealer to achieve that glass smooth finish prior to applying paint. I won't even begin to comment on the perfection of the pin striping and graphics.

Now, if everyone will excuse me, I must hit my head against the wall for a while.

Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Carlo on November 02, 2016, 02:30:25 PM
Incredibly great! What a beautiful model.
Could you suggest a tutorial for building wooden wagon wheels?
Perhaps one that doesn't require fancy power tools.
Carlo


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on November 02, 2016, 02:51:27 PM
Carlo, have a look here, there's quite a bit of information that you might find usefull.

http://www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(Tips%20&%20Ideas).htm


regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on November 02, 2016, 03:29:03 PM
Thank you Russ for your kind words.

As for the finish on the timber, well you have to start with a decent timber, or, you'll get a crap finish if you use crap timber.

I use Tasmanian Myrtle ( http://www.wood-database.com/tasmanian-myrtle/ ) which is an excellent timber to use because there is virtually NO pore holes showing, then I use a Thickness Sander that I made, to reduce it to the thickness that I require. This does leave an excellent smooth finish on any pieces that have been thru the sander. The sander can sand a bit of timber down to 0.010" thous and you can actually see thru the timber, when you hold it up to the light.
Once it has been fully assembled in the raw, I then break it down, to each individual colour I require.
The ONLY primer/undercoat I use is ---- Testors SAND FS33531 - Flat Enamel Paint, it does cost a bit, but it's the only stuff I've come across that sticks like 'shit to a blanket' and is the most NEUTRAL colour in the universe. I avoid using grey, like I would avoid the plague, as it's made from the two most violent colours in the colour spectrum, black and white. It takes a couple of colour coats just to try and hide this 'snot' grey colour which then fills in any detail you want to stand out.
Once it's dried, I then just scrub the surface with a clean dry old toothbrush, this removes any bits of fluff/dust that might have stuck to the wet paint. Any bigger bits get flicked of with a fingernail.
The finished coat is just very ordinary enamel house paint, you can buy this stuff for a fraction of the cost of hobby paints, they will even mix the right colour for you as well.

As you can see, nothing special in the painting process at all.

regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Hydrostat on November 02, 2016, 03:51:12 PM
Maybe I missed something (the model is exquisite, btw): How do you apply the coat and color? By air brush? I hope so ... :o

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on November 02, 2016, 06:11:15 PM
Another masterpiece! Simply stunning work!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on November 02, 2016, 07:05:44 PM
Hi Volker, just use an el-cheapo air brush, nothing special at all.

regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on November 10, 2016, 05:12:59 AM


All finished with the lamps being added, and then tucked away in the cupboard.


regards  greenie


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/IMG_3226_zpsw6ofxwl3.jpg)




(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/Sydney%20Waggon%20Meat/IMG_3224_zpsvvrd8q7t.jpg)




Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on November 10, 2016, 06:06:01 AM
I missed this one, when you first posted your latest in your series of fantastic models. Well done!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on November 10, 2016, 06:43:07 PM
Your work is truly deserving of the phrase "museum quality".



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on November 10, 2016, 07:11:23 PM


Much appreciated gentlemen for the ' kudos '.

Not quite museum quality, still got quite a distance to go before that happens.  ::)


regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on March 18, 2017, 06:13:00 PM
Another one for the cupboard, this time it's a Country Storekeepers Waggon, made in 1/12th scale again. Drawings were printed in the Coachbuilders and Wheelwright on July 15 1908.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/16683970_1829817923945328_8071099422066355464_n_zpsr6kf3hyc.jpeg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_4589_zpsqzi6zm4i.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_4595_zps4cqr1jym.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_4605_zpsl9oybtad.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_4625_zpsygzz8spc.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/IMG_4633_zpsjm3zhkhe.jpg)


Here's what got me interested in making it, just a picture on the back cover of a book called Tom Downers Legacy.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/radish1us/SMHDV%20stuff/Screen%20Shot%202016-11-06%20at%2011.40.00%20copy_zpsioalogx4.png)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on March 18, 2017, 06:29:51 PM
Absolutely drop-dead gorgeous!  Your work perfectly reproduces the superb craftsmanship and artistry of the prototypes, and does it in a much smaller size to boot!



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on March 18, 2017, 09:27:01 PM
You know, if you keep practicing, one of these days you'll probably build a pretty good model. Incidentally, your wagon looks better and has nicer graphics than the picture that inspired it. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on March 18, 2017, 10:02:13 PM
Thank you Ray and Russ, it is much appreciated with those kind words. :-)

regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Carlo on March 19, 2017, 08:19:45 AM
Great model!
Are those wheel rims CNC cut plexi?
I'd love to see how you made the wheels.
Carlo


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on March 19, 2017, 09:34:44 AM
Another terrific wagon, and the wheel construction does look interesting.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Hauk on March 19, 2017, 02:46:09 PM
Really nice work!
Is the lining decals or hand painted?
Not that it really matters, it looks very good regardless of the technique used.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: EZnKY on March 19, 2017, 02:49:15 PM
Incredible work!  I've just tried some simple lining myself, and your work shows me how much I have to learn!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on March 19, 2017, 03:44:50 PM
Carlo, have a look at the link below and check out the three books on " Making Model --------------" by John Thompson.
Each book will have a chapter on how to make wooden spoked wheels, I use the exact same method, with only a few modifications on how he does it.

http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/ModelVehicleBooks.htm

If I have to make a set of heavier type of  waggon wheels, then I will use wooden fellie sections to make the wheel, as per what John Thompson describes.

For a lighter type of wheel, then I'll use the 'plexiglass' for the fellies or rim.
Making a lighter type of wheel from wooden fellies is prone to disaster, as the sections do not have any thickness about them, for the glued fellies to hold together, they will and do break apart at the worst possible moment, hence, I now use a one piece plexiglass/sheet acrylic for the job at hand.

When making the fellies from plexiglass/sheet acrylic, the lathe is used to cut them from a small section of the sheet.

It would be nice to be able to get them cut out using CNC, but I don't have one available to use.


'EZnKY' and 'Hauk', the lining is decals, I use CorelDraw to get the design correct and then print them out onto decal paper.
I'm yet to find a 'Leprechaun' down the back garden that can do pin-striping for me.  ::)

regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Barney on March 19, 2017, 03:45:25 PM
Incredible workmanship just keep it coming
Barney


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Carlo on March 20, 2017, 07:22:46 AM
Thanks for the wheel ifo.
It was very helpful.
Carlo


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: EZnKY on March 20, 2017, 06:06:20 PM
I'm impressed with the color density on your decals.  What kind of printer are you using, and what kind of decal paper?
I've only been able to get decent brightness by putting one decal on top of another.  I'm using a laser printer and either Testors or Micromark decal paper. 


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on March 20, 2017, 07:50:14 PM
EZnKY,  you'll never get satisfactory results using an ink jet printer, they just aren't capable of applying the colour dense enough to the decal paper. You will get something that looks alright from ten feet away, but it sure don't look so hot up close.

I use an ALPS MD 5500 printer and the decal paper is just ordinary stuff, for a Laser printer.
The ALPS can be told to print  WHITE first, then you print the colours over the white, that way the colour is dense and sharp and the background colour will not bleed thru the decal.

Try and find somebody close to you that has an ALPS printer, have a talk to them about what your attempting to create, they should be able to help you out.

Other than that, have a look for somebody who does it for C-A-S-H, if you find out what program they use, then you could do all the artwork and they would only have to charge you for each sheet printed.
The artwork is the biggest cost, so cut that out and it's relatively cheap to get a sheet of decals printed.

regards  greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Hydrostat on March 21, 2017, 02:37:52 PM
Your wagons are marvellous, one better than the rest. I'd really like to see a picture taken in natural light. Did you ever think about a diorama and giving a wagon a whiff of wear and use?
Great modeling!

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: EZnKY on March 21, 2017, 05:58:56 PM
Thanks - that's great to know.
I'm lucky that I have full access to a whole bunch of artwork software, and I know how to use it.
The obstacle is the ALPS printer.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on March 21, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
Here's a person who makes decals for anybody who wants them, it might pay you to contact him personally and have a good chat to him.

http://www.modeltruckin.com/store/


regards greenie

ps, from what I have gathered from others who have dealt with him, his prices are quite reasonable.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on March 22, 2017, 01:23:05 AM
How do the owners of Alps printers keep them running? The printers went out of production years ago and no other company has produced one with its capabilities. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Allan G on April 28, 2017, 01:02:35 PM
Fantastic!!!!!! ...Allan


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on June 20, 2017, 12:47:21 PM

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4285/34588797804_cc42c6bbab_z.jpg)

Gordon Birrell

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonbirrell/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on June 20, 2017, 09:42:09 PM
Nice picture, Gordon. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on June 20, 2017, 10:51:13 PM
Great pic, lots of interesting things to see in that one photo.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on June 30, 2017, 09:49:09 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4208/35557041316_4880b0d875_z.jpg)



Gordon Birrell

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonbirrell/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on June 30, 2017, 09:54:55 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4217/35209052840_7c4e635cf3_z.jpg)
(other side on page 18)
Gordon Birrell

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonbirrell/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on June 30, 2017, 11:43:06 PM
Nice sheep wagon, has lots of character!

I remember seeing a similar one still in use in Nevada about 15-20 years ago. Unfortunately wasn't able to get a photo.



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on June 30, 2017, 11:45:25 PM
Here are some pics of a 1930s shepherd's wagon, including the interior details:

http://tinyhouseblog.com/travel-trailers/lornas-1930s-shepherds-wagon/ (http://tinyhouseblog.com/travel-trailers/lornas-1930s-shepherds-wagon/)




Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Design-HSB on July 01, 2017, 02:40:28 AM
Hello, here some pictures of the parade of the Üstra to the 125 anniversary.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9343/13P1070933.JPG)
Pferdeomnibus Hannover

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9343/13P1070934.JPG)
Pferdeomnibus Hannover

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9343/13P1070935.JPG)
Pferdeomnibus Hannover

Also a link to a little Video (https://youtu.be/GTGyZ3pK7-I) From the Horse omnibus.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 25, 2018, 10:51:22 PM
This post has been quite for far too long, so -------
It's a 1/12th scale 16 Passenger Omnibus, made from the drawings of J.E.Bishop, was printed in "The Australasian Coachbuilder and Saddler, Oct 1896".

see if this works, eh :-)

https://photoland.io/greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Greg Hile on July 26, 2018, 01:00:26 AM
I agree! I love these wagon photos and am hoping to start some wagon projects very soon.

And, yes, the link worked. Thanks!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Lawton Maner on July 26, 2018, 08:04:08 AM
The one at the top of this page is Russ' vacation home!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on July 26, 2018, 12:27:14 PM
Another terrific wagon, greenie, Hope the host site doesn't lose them - maybe you can post them here too?


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 26, 2018, 05:07:40 PM
Stunning! Another masterpiece!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 27, 2018, 10:23:48 PM
Another terrific wagon, greenie, Hope the host site doesn't lose them - maybe you can post them here too?

OK, then how do you manage to get any photos into the post without using a host site ? Is there some "black magical art" of submitting photos from your computer onto this forum ? :-)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on July 28, 2018, 01:00:57 AM
I finally was able to connect with that link and see the photos of your model. It looks better than the 1:1 scale version. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 28, 2018, 02:35:02 AM
Russ, how do you get the photo's onto this forum, without using a hosting site please ?

Any chance of a tutorial on how to do it please ?


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on July 28, 2018, 12:48:46 PM
There's a sticky in General Forums to explain how to post photos: http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=3.0 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=3.0)

As everyone knows, I've begged and pleaded for us to post images rather than links because, inevitably, links become useless. All you need to do is look at any older thread to see what I mean.

On the other hand, it can be a major pain the neck to reduce a photo to the right size to post here. I bought a Photoshop alternative called Affinity Photo and discovered one wonderful feature is its ability to export any image to a specific size and resolution. Other methods I've tried, including Photoshop, are hit and miss so I truly understand the frustration this forum software creates.

Well, what the heck. We're a small group but we have high standards and can be patient when necessary. Let's just spend a few minutes with some software and post the #&%^@ photos!

Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: TRAINS1941 on July 28, 2018, 07:12:34 PM
I'm impressed that is a real beautiful wagon!!

Jerry


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 29, 2018, 03:44:06 AM
I have had the photo's reduced, lets see if they now show -----------


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Design-HSB on July 29, 2018, 03:46:14 AM
Goes well and looks better like the original.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 29, 2018, 03:46:59 AM
I have had the photo's reduced, lets see if they now show, attempt # 2 -----------


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 29, 2018, 03:47:44 AM
I have had the photo's reduced, lets see if they now show # 3 -----------


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 29, 2018, 03:48:38 AM
looks like it's 2 at a time ---


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 29, 2018, 03:50:23 AM
looks like it's 2 at a time ---

These are rather small photo's, if you want the larger one's, go to the link  below.
Click on any photo and when it opens, click onto the FULL resolution and it opens real big, let's everybody see all the mistakes I made :-)

https://photoland.io/greenie


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on July 29, 2018, 09:11:22 PM
The photos are as perfect as this website software permits. Thank you for taking the trouble to post them. Along with the photos, the model is as perfect as any I've seen. Most satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Barney on July 30, 2018, 09:37:24 AM
Or try this one http://webresizer.com
Its simple (big buttons and instructions) and its free - I normally set the size between 500 and 650 and set the quality to 90 when done download onto your PC
as they only keep your new sizes for 24 Hours - some times it can be a bit slow but since I'v started using Google Crome its pretty rapid and it does show you the loading in a percentage (bottom left corner)
Barney


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 30, 2018, 12:40:03 PM
That wagon is a real piece of eye candy! What a beauty!

How did you do the lamps?


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Barney on July 30, 2018, 02:47:54 PM
Plus forgot to say - very nice workmanship and superb paint job and yes how do you do those lamps ?
Barney


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 30, 2018, 06:20:51 PM
I only have a couple of photos of a couple of lamps I made years ago, I'll add them so you can get an idea of how they are made.

The lamps on the Omnibus are of two varieties, the squarish side lamps and the large spotlight at the front.
The side lamps are just a sheet of brass trimmed to be able to bent around to create four sides, done twice for the two and then silver soldered into place.
Into the mill and carefully cut out the two sides to create the area for the light to be seen. The top and bottom bits are just turned from bits of acrylic to the required shapes and glued onto the brass square bit once painted. The red taillights are just bits of busted up  truck taillights and turned to create what should be back there and superglued on. The reflectors are turned bits of ally and polished a stuck inside once it's been painted. Assembled light has a bit of very fine clear plastic cut to shape, folded and shoved into the brass bit as glass face.

The big spotlight is made using a similar technique, only real difference is the polished up ally bit out the front. The body f the spoty is turned O/D and I/D to get it all the correct dimensions, the top and bottom sections are just turned bits of scrap acrylic, the innards is acrylic again, the rear end reflector is polished ally and then it just painted on the inside and outside. The spotty glass is just another bit of clear plastic sheeting I have at hand.

So nothing real special at all, just follow your nose as you make them.

The photo of the bits of the lamps shown are all made from brass, found out the hard way by doing these first ones like that. From there on, any lamps were made using the bits of acrylic, much easier and quicker. Once painted, who can bloody well tell that they are not brass, as per the original ones, eh.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 30, 2018, 11:04:06 PM
Very interesting, thanks.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on July 31, 2018, 01:46:17 PM
Obviously very simple and ridiculously easy to fabricate. I think I'll go in the other room for five minutes and pop out half a dozen of those babies. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on July 31, 2018, 06:26:30 PM
OK Russ, go for it, ----- the clock starts  N-O-W.    :D


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Design-HSB on August 01, 2018, 02:10:48 AM
Clear once cut and paste some Photoshop and it's done. So even I could get up to working with Photoshop


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on October 03, 2018, 05:55:42 AM
Here's another one, it's a 1/12th scale Cart. I found a photo on the web and reckoned it looked alright, so made a few more inquiries and thought, yep, I can do that.

Had to get a bit of help as per dimensions of the vehicle as only that photo to work from, started to draw it on the computer, quite a few adjustments later it was ready.
Into it and this appeared on me bench.

Usual/normal construction methods used, same as for the decals, paint job and anything else that I can't think of now.

First photo is what I found on the web and then different photos of the model.

Any questions, please ask, if no questions, then please enjoy the viewing.  


https://pli.io/2mM0kt.jpg

https://pli.io/2mMrvQ.jpg

https://pli.io/2mMxx7.jpg

https://pli.io/2mMugH.jpg

https://pli.io/2mM13l.jpg

https://pli.io/2mMILy.jpg



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on October 03, 2018, 06:05:22 AM
Try again


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on October 03, 2018, 06:07:03 AM
And some more


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on October 03, 2018, 06:07:42 AM
Here's the last lot.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Scratchman on October 03, 2018, 09:52:08 AM
Very Nice!

Gordon Birrell

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonbirrell/


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on October 03, 2018, 12:47:47 PM
Zowie carumba!! That is extremely adequate! -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Design-HSB on October 03, 2018, 02:30:21 PM
Here's another one, it's a 1/12th scale Cart. I found a photo on the web and reckoned it looked alright, so made a few more inquiries and thought, yep, I can do that.

Had to get a bit of help as per dimensions of the vehicle as only that photo to work from, started to draw it on the computer, quite a few adjustments later it was ready.
Into it and this appeared on me bench.

Usual/normal construction methods used, same as for the decals, paint job and anything else that I can't think of now.

First photo is what I found on the web and then different photos of the model.

Any questions, please ask, if no questions, then please enjoy the viewing.  


(https://pli.io/2mM0kt.jpg)

(https://pli.io/2mMrvQ.jpg)

(https://pli.io/2mMxx7.jpg)

(https://pli.io/2mMugH.jpg)

(https://pli.io/2mM13l.jpg)

(https://pli.io/2mMILy.jpg)


I confess myself as an admirer of your masterpieces.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 09, 2018, 01:06:49 AM
Absolutely flawless, as usual! And a very interesting prototype as well. I wonder if those were meat pies, served hot?

Now I'm getting hungry!



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on October 10, 2018, 11:56:01 PM
Just 'cause I can annoy everybody, here's a tad more information about this little Cart. ---------

There were only two of these Pie Carts ever built, looks like whoever built them has used the old front end’s from carriage’s that were tossed away. The wheels, axle and springs used look suspiciously like they came from very fine carriages. The new fangled motor vehicle was starting to gain popularity about now, so the old horse drawn drawn stuff was just getting tossed away as nobody wanted it. These two carts were made and used in and around Toowoomba, Qld, they were made roughly from the middle of the 1930’s, and used right thru to the early 1950’s. I found a photo on the web and became intrigued with it because of it’s unusual design, I found out a bit more about them from the Toowoomba Chronicle( Toowoomba newspaper ) and even managed to track down a daughter of one of the drivers of these vehicles, a Gloria Ciesiolka, daughter of one of the two driver’s, a Mr Bill Stuart he drove one for many years, she gave me quite a bit of information about the everyday operations of these carts. They were just a backyard operation run from a house on James St, Toowoomba, Qld, they made and baked the pies on the premises out the back in the shed and then loaded them onto these vehicles and sold them all around town. Think of the old pub closing times here in Australia of 6.00PM or 1800hrs, the whole country was kind of into the dark ages about the effects of booze, then hang around for the pictures to shut, after that head for home as nobody was out and about.
I had to make my own drawing for this cart, before I could start to make the model.
Took the finished model out to Oakey, Qld to let Mrs G. Ciesiolka have a look at it, told her I would let her know when it was finished, because of the info she supplied me, took along that colored photo was well. Showed her the colour photo and she said, - ”where did you get that photo”, I replied -  “off the web, why?”. Could have knocked me down with her answer, “it’s my brother Billy who got killed in the 2nd world war”. Turns out not only Dad sold pies, her elder brother did for a short while as well.
So a bit more history for the cupboard, eh -----------------------


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on October 11, 2018, 12:52:36 PM
Did the model itself mean nothing to her? -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Design-HSB on October 11, 2018, 02:07:24 PM
Russ, That's What I asked myself about such a grandiose model.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on October 11, 2018, 09:06:21 PM
Well, she wanted it come hell or high water, but she is at least nearly 90, so I figured her daughter would wind up with it very soon and the daughter was just ho-hum about it. Suppose if the daughter got it, it would soon be in the bin, got that sort of feeling from the daughter.

Needless to say I allowed heaps of photo's to be taken, but the model is in my cupboard.



Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on October 11, 2018, 09:46:56 PM
Maybe she'd settle for the photos. You should make up an excuse for why you really must keep the model for a while longer, perhaps for an upcoming show or interest from a fictitious museum. The daughter is probably armed with sledgehammers. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 13, 2018, 11:12:39 PM
Fascinating history. It's amazing that you could find someone with a personal connection to the carts, considering only two were ever made.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on October 14, 2018, 06:21:25 PM
The only reason that I managed to find anybody who had anything to do with these carts, was that newspaper clipping from 1994.
Without that information to start with, I wouldn't have got anything at all.
Had a name and just went looking in the phone book and just stumbled across the story with the Carts.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on January 02, 2019, 02:55:51 AM
I tried 5 times yesterday to up load these photo's, it told me the photo's were too big each time, even though I had reduced them to thumbnails. Bloody well gave up and stuck them into a photo hosting site, let's see if it works this time, eh.

This one is a Market Gardeners Trolley, or Adelaide Trolley (or Lorry) in 1/12th scale, made from the drawings published by J.E.Bishop & Son in The Australian Coachbuilder and Saddler, July 1896. Used a Lorry that’s in the museum at Millicent, as a reference for the painting and scrolling.


https://photoland.io/a/3koU


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on January 02, 2019, 07:02:18 AM
Somehow I missed all the postings about your pie cart until today. It's another terrific build! And I'm glad I stumbled upon it because I really like pies. I hope you hold onto the model; it should not even be subjected to a possibility of being binned.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on January 05, 2019, 12:48:23 AM
This one is a Market Gardeners Trolley, or Adelaide Trolley (or Lorry) in 1/12th scale, made from the drawings published by J.E.Bishop & Son in The Australian Coachbuilder and Saddler, July 1896. Used a Lorry that’s in the museum at Millicent, as a reference for the painting and scrolling.


Beautiful! Another masterpiece!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on February 09, 2019, 05:03:04 AM
Another one finished and ready for the cupboard.
This is a 1/12th scale model of a 'WHIM' which is used to drag large logs around the countryside, preferably from the bush site into the sawmill. I bought a book called 'Jinkers and Whims' by a Mr Jack Bradshaw, all about the way they used to do the 'timber getting' from around his backyard. The Whims looked like an interesting model to have a go at, so I contacted Jack Bradshaw and he supplied me with numerous photos and lot's of measurements to make a scale drawing of the biggest Whim that was made.
The full sized vehicle (Whim) was used around the Manjimup area of Western Australia for dragging in rather large trees from the scrub to the sawmill. It could be used with up to twenty, or, even thirty horses if required, depended on how heavy the log was that they had to drag around. The wheels were 3.1 mts ( 10'-2") diameter and the steel arch could accommodate a log at least 6 to 7 ft across, depended on where the point of balance was on the log, even if the log was up to 40 feet long. It was made approx. mid to late 1930's and used up to around the late 1940's. It was eventually replaced with secondhand ex war machinery.
Left out in the scrub to rot away for years, until it was rescued and bought into the wood mill, where it was then put on display for another couple of decades. Eventually the local 'men's shed' got hold of it after the sawmill closed it’s door’s for good, they have done a few running repairs and painted it, to try and protect it from the weather and have put it on display again, this time at a local park.

In America they used something similar called ‘Big Wheels’, but most of them had a straight axle and you could only place a small load UNDER the straight axle, where-as with the ‘Whims’ they had a rather large arched axle and you could load bigger logs than  what you could with a Big Wheels.

The first picture shows the full sized vehicle and you can clearly see how large the wheels actually are ( photo swiped from the web ).

The last two photo's are just to give you a perspective of just how bloody big this Whim actually is, there's a 1/12th scale Market Gardener's Trolley, parked under the arch of the model Whim, both are made to 1/12th scale.





https://ibb.co/rwt9YZH

https://ibb.co/0qmJ4DG

https://ibb.co/gzs9M6D

https://ibb.co/Hpk2Cxd

https://ibb.co/VNbGJy1

https://ibb.co/PTfSzpN

https://ibb.co/8Bm3xXf

https://ibb.co/SxtYh90

https://ibb.co/GVZr1rL

https://ibb.co/dbhfpbp

https://ibb.co/Wg22ZYp

https://ibb.co/BNwqzzk

https://ibb.co/9H4K0wx

https://ibb.co/jZfnDJJ





Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on February 09, 2019, 12:44:11 PM
Most satisfactory! -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: TRAINS1941 on February 09, 2019, 06:37:29 PM
Wow that's really nice.  Beautiful work.

Jerry


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Design-HSB on February 10, 2019, 02:10:13 AM
Under this link (https://ibb.co/album/b237dv), the pictures of the very beautiful successful car can be looked more comfortably.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 10, 2019, 11:09:49 PM
Stunning work!


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Lawton Maner on February 11, 2019, 10:33:13 AM
     Many of the American log carriers had an arched rather then square mount to carry the logs.  The teamster would chain the log to the carrier with the tongue almost straight up in the air.  Once the log was secured, the teamster would then pull on the tongue and raise the front of the log off of the ground.  Many American loggers used either oxen or mules instead of horses.  most of the logging teams used 6 or more pairs of draft animals to move the loads. 

     There are still many small logging operators throughout the US who use draft animals when logging smaller tracts of forest as they do little damage to smaller trees which will be allowed to grow and be harvested later.  One logger I know down near Keysville, Va has a team of oxen named Tom and Jerry. Logging selectively with draft animals leaves the forest in better shape and can lead to a sustainable harvest which does not destroy streams and other elements of the ecology in the forest.  Additionally, many well trained draft teams can be started toward the log dump and then left on their own to get there.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on February 14, 2019, 07:53:09 PM
A couple of photos showing the Whim loaded with a small load.

https://ibb.co/jzkptHX

https://ibb.co/QF0DdQT


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Design-HSB on February 15, 2019, 06:33:01 AM
Just interesting to see in a different way than I suspected. Only where now the horse pulls with us the train chain is placed by the horse, just once around the tree trunk and then secured with a nail.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on February 15, 2019, 06:46:57 AM
Here's a device with a related function that I believe was designed by a guy who once lived on large farm on land granted to his ancestors by Geo. III, right across the street from me. His Packer Stump Puller & Wall Builder was said to be a lot more versatile and stronger than other devices.
For building walls there was a sort of heavy duty 'ice tong' that gripped a stone in a pair of shallow drill holes (about thumbnail diameter and 1/2 in. deep).

The area around here is loaded with stonewalls. A couple years ago I discovered that many of of them lining this street (old pentway) and a few other local walls in the general area had pairs of small drill holes on opposite sides of all the largest stones. I have searched, but never found other walls with those paired holes.

I believe they were built with this device and wrote a magazine article about it (never got published).

The photo in excerpt from local history newsletter shows a couple of the pullers working a few blocks from here.

(You can click on photos to enlarge them.)

A nearby historical society said they thought they still have the iron parts of one of these pullers somewhere outside their building. I hope to go look for it.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on February 17, 2019, 05:11:27 AM
Just interesting to see in a different way than I suspected. Only where now the horse pulls with us the train chain is placed by the horse, just once around the tree trunk and then secured with a nail.


G'day Helmut, got any photos showing how the chains were held onto the log with just that one nail, please.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on February 17, 2019, 05:13:17 AM
Bill, one hell of an interesting and unusual device that Stump Puller/Rock Carrier, eh.  :o :o :o :o :o


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Terry Harper on February 25, 2019, 05:09:23 PM
Wonderful work and cool stuff!

Up here in northern New England when the horse replaced the ox in the 1860's most of the moving of timber took place in winter using sleds to
haul directly to the mill or more usually to the nearest river or lake.

A typical two-sled powered by a good team of horses could easily move a 7 ton load over the ice
roads.

From about 1900 on tractors came into common use though horse power was used well into the 1940's
on many operations.

This past weekend I had the opportunity to test out a newly constructed circa 1926 sled. We didn't have the
chains setup yet so we couldn't carry a load with it but it was a ton of fun anyway.

The sled itself measure over 33 feet long and weighs close to a ton itself. It was built from original factory drawings
by a group of students at our local Technical school using timber from several large oak trees that were blown down
during a severe wind storm last year.

All good fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOlVfAzZInM&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOlVfAzZInM&feature=youtu.be)





Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on March 06, 2019, 02:50:02 PM
A couple of photos showing the Whim loaded with a small load.

https://ibb.co/jzkptHX

https://ibb.co/QF0DdQT

The hook-up doesn't look right.  The chain should be suspended from the arch so that it lifts the log off the ground as the team pulls forward.
As shown in the photo, the log would dig into the ground as the team pulled.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on March 06, 2019, 07:32:59 PM
The big chain in the middle of the log is positioned so that the log is of the ground at the middle and rear, this is to allow the log to be a bit nose heavy, so when the motive power stops, then the nose of the log will dig into the ground and all proceedings will just come to a stop.
Failure to load the log nose heavy, will see the motive power ( either horses or bullocks ) run over from the rear when you want to stop, not a nice thing to do to the animals.
There were a few horses and bullocks killed and injured, before it was worked out that you needed the log to be nose heavy.

By having the log nose heavy, when you started the team pulling, the nose came up of the ground and so long as forward pressure was applied, the nose stayed clear of the ground and it all just kept rolling along nicely.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on March 06, 2019, 07:48:23 PM
Here's a picture showing how the Whim was first used, it had a Jinker attached to the front of the long bar on the Whim, so it was used as a four wheel vehicle. Somebody had the Jinker collapse and were stuck out in the scrub with just the Whim, so they used the Whim as a stand alone vehicle.
OK, it wasn't very successful until a few kinks had been ironed out, like how to stop it killing the motive power, when that was worked out, the Whim then became a stand alone vehicle and was used right up to the mid 1950's in Western Australia's Jarrah and Karri forests.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: mabloodhound on March 13, 2019, 12:11:36 PM
Thanks for the explanation which now makes sense.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: NORCALLOGGER on March 13, 2019, 05:43:16 PM
The big chain in the middle of the log is positioned so that the log is of the ground at the middle and rear, this is to allow the log to be a bit nose heavy, so when the motive power stops, then the nose of the log will dig into the ground and all proceedings will just come to a stop.
Failure to load the log nose heavy, will see the motive power ( either horses or bullocks ) run over from the rear when you want to stop, not a nice thing to do to the animals.
There were a few horses and bullocks killed and injured, before it was worked out that you needed the log to be nose heavy.

By having the log nose heavy, when you started the team pulling, the nose came up of the ground and so long as forward pressure was applied, the nose stayed clear of the ground and it all just kept rolling along nicely.


Hence the advancement from Stiff Tongue Big Wheels to the Slip Tongue Big Wheels in the Western Pine Forests, to protect the teams and workers.


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Bill Gill on April 20, 2019, 02:21:12 PM
Here's a bit of video (2m 41s total, look starting about 15 seconds for a few seconds more.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWRscujkPxU


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: finescalerr on April 20, 2019, 09:16:44 PM
I feel rather sympathetic toward the horse. -- Russ


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: greenie on April 21, 2019, 09:08:19 PM
That Belgian Draft Horse sure is a good example of decent horse flesh, specifically bred to do the job that he excels at doing. :-)


Title: Re: Old Wagons
Post by: Lawton Maner on April 27, 2019, 08:33:31 PM
     Many of the larger draft animals were originally breed to be the transport for armored knights in addition to doing the heavy lifting.  IMHO, I would rather have a team of oxen then one of horses as they aren't as skittish, work a bit more slowly and in general can out pull a pair of draft horses.  Strong, gentle, steady workers who if well kept would work for more then 20 years.
     Colonial Williamsburg Foundation has since the beginning kept oxen as draft animals and I can remember Tom and Jerry who were a matched pair used to pull a delivery cart through the restoration.  For a number of years the young son of their handler would dress in period costume and lead them down Duke of Gloucester Street by a light cord tied to the nose ring of the lead ox.  It was great to see a 55 pound 9 year old controlling almost 2 tons of muscle with a cord which was to light to be used on a dog leash.  When they would stop in front of one of the stores, they would be restrained by a wooden block with a ring through one side tied to the cord as a reminder.