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General Category => Modellers At Work => Topic started by: RoughboyModelworks on December 24, 2009, 10:39:31 AM



Title: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: RoughboyModelworks on December 24, 2009, 10:39:31 AM
Found these photos on another forum (http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?t=7496&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) and thought them worth reposting here because of the inspirational quality of the brass and metal work. Unfortunately I don't read German (at least not without considerable effort), but the builder's name is Christian from somewhere near Braunschweig.

Paul


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Chuck Doan on December 24, 2009, 10:48:43 AM
Very impressive! I'm surprised he didn't make a working engine.

Wonder if it will be painted, and if so, weathered.


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: RoughboyModelworks on December 24, 2009, 10:52:19 AM
Further into the post Chuck, you can see the painted version. Unfortunately, I don't think the paintwork is up to the outstanding quality of the model... IMO.

Paul


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: JohnP on December 24, 2009, 02:43:53 PM
I tried Yahoo Babel Fish for the first time. Put in the web page address and the whole thing is translated-somewhat humorously but it will give you an idea.

It seems the levers make it go and reverse. The paint is alright but I think the original finish is so NASA-like in quality he should have left it. The big surprise is that the louvers are from a German kitchen fan of some sort. Very smart there.

Nice find Paul.

John


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Ray Dunakin on December 24, 2009, 11:26:48 PM
Beautiful piece of work!


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: marc_reusser on December 25, 2009, 05:05:13 AM
The loco is truly a beautiful piece of workmanship....and the original paint coats are very nicely applied also...but that weathering is a freaking abomination, it ruins and negates all the hard work that went before it.  People that build beautiful models but can't paint or weather for sh*t, should really get to know their limits. I was really saddened by what he did to that loco.

MR


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: DaKra on December 25, 2009, 08:30:35 AM
Yeah what a beautiful model, but I'm sorry I clicked that link and saw the model go from a work of art to a toy train.  This guy is clearly an excellent machinist and builder, but he's out of his league with the weathering.  Looks like he loaded a squirtgun with watercolors and fired away.   Lame   :-\

Dave


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: RoughboyModelworks on December 26, 2009, 07:48:10 PM
Yeah, it's a real shame, such superb construction work then just ruined with lousy paintwork. It would have been preferable to just leave it as brass or at the very least pass it on to a skilled painter to finish it. Oh well, we can still take inspiration from his metalwork.

Paul


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Ken Hamilton on December 27, 2009, 09:05:53 AM
I thought you guys were being unjustly harsh until I clicked on the link.
Talk about falling off a cliff............


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: DaKra on December 27, 2009, 01:22:45 PM
I thought you guys were being unjustly harsh until I clicked on the link.
Talk about falling off a cliff............


Heh, that's what I like about this forum, its justly harsh.       


   


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: mobilgas on December 27, 2009, 02:07:38 PM
Hey Guys,      you cant be good in everything ;D      Craig


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: shropshire lad on December 27, 2009, 03:36:46 PM
Hey Guys,      you cant be good in everything ;D      Craig

  I've set my sights on being good at something . I'll worry about being good at everything later .


   Nick


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: JohnP on December 28, 2009, 07:27:22 PM
I thought I was wrong once. Turned out I was wrong. ;D

I guess it is difficult to to be fully talented in a variety of related fields. For example, many car builders have someone else apply the paint even if they perform excellent mechanical modifications. It is a rare modeler who can scratchbuild most everything, create a layout with great scenery, then run the equipment realistically around believable structures and settings, maybe running with electronics and sound. So, OK, the guy should have looked up some forums for weathering ideas before touching that mechanical masterpiece.

Can anybody name a Beyond Acceptable Modeler who, in the past or present history of railway modeling, seems to have it all figured out?

John


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: marc_reusser on December 28, 2009, 08:12:21 PM
There is some French guy and his wife that did an absolutely stunning all scratch-built layout in some wierd scale like 1:53, or such.  For the world of me I can't remember his name at the moment.


MR


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: mobilgas on December 28, 2009, 08:25:13 PM
 John,        Alot of people might not agree with me on this forum...But ill put in a VOTE for George of Fine Scale Miniatures ...for what he has done ...building the layout he built....makeing kits....all the  good press he's got in the hobby....Known all around the world for his layout....and people from around the world wanting to see his layout...That includes ME ;D 40 years ago seeing his kits got me interested in model railroading. His kit's were the best in HO he was way ahead of his time when he started doing kits... I would love to have that good of a layout at my house even if its HO scale.  OK thats my 2 cents worth    Craig


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: RoughboyModelworks on December 28, 2009, 08:40:55 PM
Well, someone who gets my vote (and I'm sure there will be a good number of dissenting opinions here as well) is Martyn Welch who built a layout called "Hursley" that has been published in MRJ among other places (a caveat though... I've only seen this layout in photographs, not in person but even so, it's superb). I don't believe he built his own locos tho, I think Tony Reynalds gets the credit for those. I believe it's unrealistic to think there may be one individual who is accomplished in all disciplines.

I believe the best layouts though (at least model railways) are built by those who are accomplished in one or more of the required disciplines but who also have the good sense (and perhaps the wherewithal) to utilize the services of others who are more accomplished in the areas where the original builder is weak. The best layouts, as with any large and complex project, always seem to be collaborative efforts.

Paul


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: JohnP on December 28, 2009, 09:11:07 PM
Paul, it looks like Martyn knows his weathering judging by a few web photos and his book. I wish I could find photos of the layout; I like to see what the British do that is different from over here. Oh and sorry if this is what is known as a thread hijack.

Craig, I though of George also. His work output in both commercial and his own layout is beyond belief. If there is someone who seems to have had the time to master many modeling aspects and produce the same style continuously to the completion of an entire layout it would be he. Kind of like a modern day John Allen.

Marc, why would I not doubt a French modeler and wife would build in an odd scale. The French have another style of modeling to be sure and perhaps worth looking for on the web. Thanks for the idea.

John


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: marc_reusser on December 28, 2009, 10:46:53 PM
I actually think our own local boy here, Jacq, falls well into this category....though as far as I know he doesn't build his own engines. I also would say that Franck Tavernier probably fits the criteria.

John,
I think one difference between many euro RR modelers and those here, is that they really are into machining and fabricating their own detailed parts, locos and cars to a very high level of detail and accuracy. Yes, there is that same RTR, "lets just have fun", and "we don't need no stinking rules" contingent, but among those that truly model the level of detail craftsmanship is higher (though IMO many fall short in the painting aspect). I also feel that among those modelers the use of technology such as Rapid prototyping, 3D milling, photo etching, etc. is much much higher than here.  Here among most, laser cut wood is the cats meow.  (I actulally think that this has something to do with their educational system....but that's another topic......and just to nip any controversy/forum outcry, in the bud, re. that comment....I do know what I am talking about...I went to school there and here.)

MR


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: shropshire lad on December 29, 2009, 04:57:18 AM
Marc,

   You wouldn't be thinking of Gordon and Maggie Gravett and their 1/50th scale French layout Pempoul ,would you ?

  Craig ,

  George has had quite alot of help in the construction of his layout , so he hasn't done it all by himself . That , however , is not intended to diminish what he has achieved .

  Nick


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: jacq01 on December 29, 2009, 06:08:40 AM
  Pempoul will be at the jubilee exhibition of the FdE Burscheid in Leverkusen in May.
  Also Henk Wust with his Punto Marina layout. The chairman Erich Walle has invited some of the best in Europe to attend in May.
  Nick, if you still plan to come, let me know and I put your names on my crew's list so you can take part at the buffet in the evening and have a nice conversation with members including of course Marcel, Alan Rees and me. 

 Painting the original colors is not a problem in Europe, the weathering is. Only the last 10 years some articles have appeared in a few leading magazines. Good information is mostly coming from the same handful of people. Often it is combined with the use of an airbrush. Most are reluctant as the resale value plays an important role in NOT doing it. Very little is done about the technique and pointing out the details.
As weathering is laborous and difficult to achieve in a production proces, the commercial influences are not interested in promoting it. Liliput tried it at the end of the 80's but the results were less than mediocre.

  Jacq


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Waldbahner on December 29, 2009, 06:11:45 AM
Hello from a German model railroader...

It seems that you all ignore one very important thing in this discussion :

THE BUILDER of the Gmeinder loco has to like his model !!! And I think he do so...

My opinion is, that many model builder overdo there weathering in most cases...
- layers of rost that will turn out to 1" think barks in 12"-scale
- scale up some of the wood grain scripped into boards with saw blades

Yes, there are also some real great modelers that capture the prototype in a fantastic way and you can't determine if it is prototype or just a model.

At last - we are all modelers with our own skills. Let us have some fun while model railroading =)
This type of discussion is typical for German boards and that's the reason, why I read and post in American forums like this.

Best regards, Gerd


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Hauk on December 29, 2009, 06:41:20 AM
Marc,

   You wouldn't be thinking of Gordon and Maggie Gravett and their 1/50th scale French layout Pempoul ,would you ?


I would say that is a fair guess!

Check out Model Raiway Journal 182 (teaser pictures) and 185 (full article)
You can get MRJ back issues from Bob Peraman Books. He is reliable and accepts PayPal and credit cards.
http://www.pearman-books.com/

And by the way, Martyn Wylch´s Hursley layout was featured in MRJ #40

Regards, Håvard


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: TRAINS1941 on December 29, 2009, 07:44:05 AM
Personally for my two cents someone I think is close to having it all together building strutures, figures and scenery in all scales is Dave Revelia.

Jerry


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: shropshire lad on December 29, 2009, 11:52:12 AM
Personally for my two cents someone I think is close to having it all together building strutures, figures and scenery in all scales is Dave Revelia.

Jerry

  Hi Jerry ,

   Hope you all had a spiffing Christmas and are not doing to much back at work . I have been laying blocks inside whilst it is snowing outside . I hope it doesn't freeze tonight , or my mortar might get a bit buggered.

 Anyway , back to the question in hand , you are probably right that Dave is one of the few modellers that is good at most things he does , mainly because he is prepared to have a go at painting figures when most of the rest of us shy away from even having a go , but we haven't seen much evidence of his tracklaying or wiring skills so it is just possible that there is something he is not good at . Not very likely , but you never know .

   Nick


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: shropshire lad on December 29, 2009, 12:11:24 PM
Hello from a German model railroader...

It seems that you all ignore one very important thing in this discussion :

THE BUILDER of the Gmeinder loco has to like his model !!! And I think he do so...

My opinion is, that many model builder overdo there weathering in most cases...
- layers of rost that will turn out to 1" think barks in 12"-scale
- scale up some of the wood grain scripped into boards with saw blades

Yes, there are also some real great modelers that capture the prototype in a fantastic way and you can't determine if it is prototype or just a model.

At last - we are all modelers with our own skills. Let us have some fun while model railroading =)
This type of discussion is typical for German boards and that's the reason, why I read and post in American forums like this.

Best regards, Gerd

   Gerd ,

   You are probably right , that the modeller likes his own model , and a very fine model it is to . But what he has done after painting it does not make it look better in any way . He may not see that himself , but everyone here does . What people need to do for him is to point him in the direction of examples of good weathering of locos so that he may realise that there may be better ways than what he has done . If , when he has seen what is possible , he is still happy with what he has done , then we will leave him to his own little World . A good start would be some of the military modelling forums as the people on those forums can represent weathering on vehicles , be they tanks or trains , better than anyone .
  The loco does not have to be weathered very heavily or even rusted at all , but it does some further attention .

  I hope you understand what I am trying to get across ,

  Nick


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: shropshire lad on December 29, 2009, 12:19:37 PM
  Pempoul will be at the jubilee exhibition of the FdE Burscheid in Leverkusen in May.
  Also Henk Wust with his Punto Marina layout. The chairman Erich Walle has invited some of the best in Europe to attend in May.
  Nick, if you still plan to come, let me know and I put your names on my crew's list so you can take part at the buffet in the evening and have a nice conversation with members including of course Marcel, Alan Rees and me. 

  Jacq

 Jacq ,

  It is still Malcolm's and my intention to come over in May so if you can put us on your crew list as broom pushers we would be very grateful . With all these top modellers in attendance this sounds like it is going to be a hell of a show . Funnily enough I have a number of relations who don't live very far away  from Leverkusen , though I don't think I'll have time to see them .

  Nick


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Chuck Doan on December 29, 2009, 01:12:19 PM
I would have liked to see that loco if painted by Mig Jemenez or Michael Rinaldi.


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: JohnP on December 29, 2009, 10:27:27 PM
I was going to retire early tonight but this thread is going pretty good. What fun!

Marc, there seems to be two modeling broad categories in the US, the modelers who mostly use available stuff to make their miniature world turn, and the more nostalgic types who use sticks of wood and slow, careful finishing to create their scenes. The sophisticated machinery like CNC is for the few live steamers. Laser cutting is kind of a crossover, but it is kit based. However, Dave at VectorCut is an example of someone who is using the technology at a new exciting level.

Gerd, entschuldigen Sie, if the discussion is headed the wrong way. I will say that heavy weathering and the concept of a decrepit appearance of models is a side branch of the hobby that is to the taste of the modeler. Maybe it is a trend that will change in time. Meanwhile it is true that we all should somehow find the joy in our modeling hobby. But can anyone say that they have never glanced at a photo of others' modeling to make a mental comparison or to see how so-and-so did it? That is how I learned techniques and still set goals. And we are all critics of one form or another.

Is there a generalization alarm going off? ::)

John



Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: marc_reusser on December 29, 2009, 11:26:01 PM

Is there a generalization alarm going off? ::)

John


....just use a big brush and broad strokes ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D.


Gerd,
Es war wirklich nich uebel gemeint. The loco is a truely beautiful and stunning piece of work. Something I could never achieve. The base paint job is perfectly fine as well. I wish he had left it at the factory new look. I never advocated that he should add rust or over-weather.  All I was trying to say is that the weathering is so childish and crude, and looks like no weathering I have ever seen ....that it really hurts and takes away from all the fantastic work that came before it.  I fully agree with you that the main objective is for him to be happy...and if he is, good for him......but......I personally, cannot believe that he can honestly look at the weathering on his loco and not know it is poorly done.....he is such an exacting craftsman, he would have to be blind not to realize this........I know most every mistake I make along the way in a project.... I know when I have done something poorly......and I am nowhere near his league of craftsman.

MR


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: jacq01 on December 30, 2009, 03:41:17 AM
   
Quote
I actually think our own local boy here, Jacq, falls well into this category....though as far as I know he doesn't build his own engines. I also would say that Franck Tavernier probably fits the criteria.

 Thanks Marc,  I do and have done brass and white metal kits. Complete scratchbuilding isn't my league. I for sure will go nuts as it will be me who is deciding the detail level. Besides I prefer doing landscaping and scenery as it contains uncertainties I do not control.
 I'll do everything myself, such as carpentry, wiring, lighting and all diciplines needed to make a layout that makes me a happy man.

 Your point of someone explaining the finer points in weathering is difficult to achieve as the ones who advertise themselves as experts have little feeling with reality. Too many are too impatient to apply all the nuances and textures they see and are indoctrinated to believe the airbrush is the ultimate tool for weathering, quick and a reasonable controle of the amount of paint coverage. Of course there are a few "artists" like Franck, Emanuelle, Marcel, who have developed a feeling for it, but they are few...  In the US it is more common and idea's are shared freely.

Jacq
 


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Franck Tavernier on December 30, 2009, 04:12:42 AM
Gentlemen, you forgot one thing...

With my experience in painting and modelling too, difficulties are inversely proportional to the scale! More the ratio scale is weak, more the difficulties increase! Don't forget that details are more visible in 1:8 scale than in 1:16 scale or 1:35...So, painting and weathering are more difficult to this scale! Moreover, With this scale you don't be entitled to error, a bolt in reality will be a bolt in 1:8 scale, etc...With this scale, you cannot cheat! And I think it's true with other large scale...if you want a finescale model! Is it true : Chuck; Marty; Gordon; Ken?

I made this model in 1:35 scale, with the goal to carried out the most realistic possible model, as well on construction as on painting…

We haven't all the same goal, the same sensibility, and like Gerd, I think that the builder of this Gmeinder has to like his model!

Chuck named Mig or Michael, like him or Marc (sorry for those which I didn't name), these boys have an approach and a sensitivity in painting  that everyone doesn't have!

For me it's not only a question of skills but a question of modelling approach, which are our goals in finality?

Franck


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: DaKra on December 30, 2009, 08:36:32 AM
Frank I think the difficulties are about the same, if you consider the model in terms of resolution of detail per square inch of surface.   Every scale has its technical advantages/disadvantages, but ultimately a good model is not a function of scale, but of the builder. 

Dave


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Chuck Doan on December 30, 2009, 09:06:32 AM
Mig recently did a 1/16 tank when he was used to 1/35th. He did say it was more tedious to do the chipping, etc in that size just because there was so much more of it. But his results were as excellent as his smaller stuff. Ahh, talent!

I would have been very aprehensive about painting such a large and excellently built model. For me the only hope would be the fact that it could be stripped readily due to the metal construction! I have no doubt I would need several do-overs.

It is true that weathering can be a difficult thing. MIg and others like him have raised the bar pretty high.








Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: finescalerr on December 30, 2009, 02:10:39 PM
I don't know what the big deal is about. I can weather any model in any scale perfectly in less than 20 minutes with a secret technique I will never share. In fact, I won't even show photos of my perfect models so you guys can't figure out my secrets.

Somewhat less seriously, the level of weathering by Mig and some of you on this forum is a very time consuming, sophisticated process that requires significant talent and a very, very astute eye. The vast majority of hobbyists, even guys who excel at construction, are simply unable to achieve satisfactory results.

For that reason, all hobbyists could benefit from learning simple, effective techniques that produce the overall effect and are fairly foolproof to apply. Gordon Birrell, for example, seems to have discovered methods that bring his models to life, yet don't take forever to apply. (He comes to mind because I just read the thread about his latest locomotive model.) Others have achieved similar results.

If any of you wants to teach guys with limited artistic talent or skill how to achieve satisfactory results in a simple, quick, step-by-step manner, I would eagerly publish one or more articles in my Modelers' Annual.

Most of us may never be Rembrandt but maybe more can come close by painting by the numbers!

Russ


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Franck Tavernier on December 30, 2009, 03:10:28 PM
Somewhat less seriously, the level of weathering by Mig and some of you on this forum is a very time consuming, sophisticated process that requires significant talent and a very, very astute eye. The vast majority of hobbyists, even guys who excel at construction, are simply unable to achieve satisfactory results.
Russ

Russ, that's the whole thing in a nutshell!  ;)

Franck


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: DaKra on December 30, 2009, 03:44:18 PM
Good idea on the simple weathering article.  I think introducing model railroaders to oil paint washes, and weaning them off of Alcohol-and-India-Ink as an all-purpose weathering agent will help a lot.   Otherwise, I think the most typical weathering mistake made by amatures is a tendency to go overboard.   Take the model in this thread as an example.  Had he just left it alone, or given it a light oil wash and quit, it would look respectable.   No special skills required.

Dave


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Mr Potato Head on December 30, 2009, 05:06:40 PM

It is true that weathering can be a difficult thing. MIg and others like him have raised the bar pretty high.

Wow coming from you, that's mind bolgeling ???





[/quote]


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Ray Dunakin on December 30, 2009, 09:10:15 PM
The way I see it, maybe the guy just wants to do it himself, and hasn't yet acquired the skill to do better weathering.

That's sort of how it is with me... I like to do as much as I can, to the best of my current abilities. In some areas I do good work, in other areas not so much, but if necessary I can always redo something later when my skill level is more advanced. I'd much rather have something I did myself, even if it's less than perfect; than to pay for someone else's work.





Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: jacq01 on December 31, 2009, 05:25:07 AM

   Even when the guy is trying to do it all by himself, it becomes clear that he has not been looking at what reality looks like.
   Not uncommon in the RR society.

   Here a reference  http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=441.0 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=441.0)

  Jacq


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Franck Tavernier on December 31, 2009, 07:01:39 AM
...but ultimately a good model is not a function of scale, but of the builder. 
Dave

Dave, yes, you are right, but perhaps also because of the difficulties which large scales impose to some modellers…

For example, in 1:87 or 1:48 (1:43.5) scale you can still suggest and cheat for some things…A green tuft will be able to represent various types of plants, your imagination and your subconscious will suggest you what you want to see there… In the same way, a simple rivet head will be able to suggest a head of bolt… Simply because on these scales your eye (naked eye of course) will not be able to make the difference, it cannot see in detail, on these scales (1:87; 1:48), details are too small! Thus, these scales present some facilities from this point of view!

With large scales, things are very different! Each parts of a loco, on the background, will be seen very well to the naked eye...

In 1:24 scale, a dandelion will resemble to a dandelion obligatorily! It could not be suggested like in small scale… (See on this subject the techniques developed by Marcel Ackle : http://www.feldbahn-modellbau.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17)...

In a large scale, weathering will require more detail since the scale will allow it. Thus, for example, rust spots, claws, blotches will have to respect the scale to be realistic! Weathering in large scale is more difficult than in small scale, don't forget that all is seen in detail in large scales...

How many time did Chuck pass on the weathering of his Fordson tractor? Large scales requires more work, techniques, details and this isn't inevitably the goal of any modeler…Compared to these difficulties and requests, it's normal that some modellers are not interested to go further in weathering! ;) ;)

I hope you understand what I am trying to explain with my English... ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)


Franck


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: DaKra on December 31, 2009, 09:07:12 AM
Franck, yes I understand you.  But... regardless of scale, its the same resolution of detail, or detail per inch ("dpi" if you will ;)) that defines an excellent model.    As you said, you work to whatever level of detail the scale allows.  How much that is allowed, is a function of the man, his eyes, hands, tools and materials.   These elements do not change with scale.   Would an N scale locomotive from scratch be any more or less difficult than a similar sized G scale wheel truck from scratch?   

Or, using your example of foliage, compare 3 scale models with roughly the same proportions:   1/87 small tree, vs 1/48 scale shrub, vs 1/32 potted plant.   To do them realistically, I don't see much of a difference in terms of effort or technical difficulty.   Leaves or pine needles must be suggested on a tree trunk with branches, but it takes artistic skill to make it convincing.   It can't be easy, I've seen very few realistic HO scale trees.  A 1/32 scale plant must be copied precisely from nature, requiring miniature leaves... but they are still large enough to cut and manipulate by hand. Or one could purchase commercial laser/photo etch materials.   But again, I don't see many realistic 1/32 plants.  Requires skill and time, just like an HO tree.     

Funny you mention dandelions, since I've been designing laser cut scale flowers for commercial sale in 1/87 and 1/48. These are specific species of flowers, e.g. daisies, with stems and leaves.   The 1/87 versions may never make it to market.   Same designs, but the materials disintigrate in 1/87, plus the microscopic parts are very difficult to see and assemble in that scale.  A 1/24 dandelion is childsplay by comparison.   Not saying 1/24 is easier, just saying its all a matter of dpi.  :)

Dave   



 


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: marc_reusser on December 31, 2009, 05:10:28 PM
Look,...it is possible to weather beautifully at this scale......granted it takes immense amount of patience, skill, talent, and a penchant for observing what happens in the real world......(the same is necess. in any scale...it just becomes a matter of how to adapt/udjut it to that particular scale to make it seem plausible/believable enough so that our minds eye, reads, interprets and correlates it, as what it is supposed to represent in the real world.

FWIW....I know we can't all be Mig Jimenez, and it may not be your style....but beautiful and realistic weathering can be done in the large scales.......and yes it is 1/16 only half the size of 1/8.....but the overall 1/16 model is probably definitely larger than the Gmeinder.....have a look at Migs Tiger. http://migjimenez.blogspot.com/ (http://migjimenez.blogspot.com/) if you have not already seen it.

MR


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: JohnP on December 31, 2009, 08:37:15 PM
Russ, that basic weathering article is a great idea. First though folks should be helped with their powers of observation. I used to give clinics at a hobby shop. I started each topic with a series of slides of the real world. Most of the modelers were quite delighted with the presentations. Even if I botched the hands-on work the audience could still see what I was trying to accomplish based on the slide set. I also always told them to follow their own vision and use the techniques I demonstrated to meet their own standards. That statement shocked many of them, and once it soaked in, it dawned on them that model railroading is for them to enjoy and was not to be scrutinized the boys from Kalmbach (The Central Scrutinizer?) or some Master Model Railroader.

Perhaps the fella with the thread subject loco never developed his viewpoint of weathering. Maybe he never tried different techniques before. Maybe the thing just suits his vision.

I will also add, my clinic audience always had a chance for a hands on at the end. When it came to weathering most were quite shy to even try anything. I believe there is a harsh stigma attached to model weathering, that it is something you have to do to be a real modeler or you need exotic artist's materials from another planet to do it right in the eyes of Those Who Get Published. Once they got going it was hard to stop some of them after the guilt and stress was removed!

So everybody leave the poor feller who built this loco alone! I feel sorry for him if he ever gets to reading this thread...he may never make another model.

And, to the other discussion-- human vision is limited by the circle of confusion. At normal viewing distances it is hard to see N-scale rivets because of eye resolution limits so putting individual rust streaks and chips on them may be a waste of time. Texture and a representation of reality is needed in the smaller scales. But in 1:35 the detail becomes important.  There, putting scaling rust and paint in the proper areas of a motor may be important. Of course, if you put your N-scale Shay into Russ's magic photo machine it'll need the higher level of detail including the rusty bucket of the proper sized fasteners on the running board. So I say there is a difference in weathering for different scales, and one must consider if the item will ever be seen magnified.

That's my 2 cents worth plus a holiday bonus.

John


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: shropshire lad on January 01, 2010, 05:06:15 AM
John ,

  " The Central Scrutinizer" ? That sounds vaguely familiar . Nothing to do with a certain Frank Zappa and his " Joe's Garage"LP by any chance ?

  Nick


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: JohnP on January 01, 2010, 10:04:26 AM
Nick: Yup. Very well done sir. It just popped into my head when writing.

But doesn't anyone here feel like there is someone looking over your shoulder when modeling. Whose standards to we work to- our own, a vision of ourselves, a magazine editor, a contest judge, some guy who doesn't know us and will never see our work?

Must be all those voices in my head...

John


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: shropshire lad on January 01, 2010, 12:17:00 PM
Nick: Yup. Very well done sir. It just popped into my head when writing.

But doesn't anyone here feel like there is someone looking over your shoulder when modeling. Whose standards to we work to- our own, a vision of ourselves, a magazine editor, a contest judge, some guy who doesn't know us and will never see our work?

Must be all those voices in my head...

John

  John ,

  Joe's Garage ? That brings back memories of Christmas 1978 , or was it 1979 ? My memory isn't as good as used to be .

As for someone looking over my shoulder , I usually have this vision of a grumpy former Swiss architect type now slumming it on the West Coast tut tutting as I cock something else up . As for magazine editors and contest judges ? There is only one of the former and non of the latter who's standards are as high as those on this forum so their opinion counts for nothing . ( Apologies to any contest judges tuning tonight).

  Nick


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: finescalerr on January 01, 2010, 03:22:30 PM
I constantly peer over the shoulder of each and every one of you. It is not the faded vision of the decayed Kalmbach you sense; Kalmbach would have you aspire to mediocrity. Nay, the ever vigilant Eyes That Never Blink belong to your benign host, indeed the very soul of Westlake Publishing, who would have each of you attain the greatness to which you are destined. They are not critical eyes; they are the Eyes of Encouragement.

Man, what have I been smokin'?

Russ


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: RoughboyModelworks on January 01, 2010, 03:35:31 PM
Man, what have I been smokin'?
Russ

Funny... I was going to ask the same question! Thought perhaps it was a lingering alcohol-fueled fantasy following last night's New Year's Eve debauchery... ;)

Paul


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: JohnP on January 03, 2010, 03:50:49 PM
Damn it I knew it was Russ Reinberg and not Russ Larson peering over my shoulder. Maybe that's why my mediocrity never felt right.

I have 14 hours until I return to work from the vacation. Still time to finish the holiday Bourbon and review my medioric modeling history! First, that Tyco train set from Christmas '68. Or '72. Or....

John


Title: Re: 1:8 Scale Gmeinder Feldbahn
Post by: Franck Tavernier on January 04, 2010, 02:30:58 PM
Mig recently did a 1/16 tank when he was used to 1/35th. He did say it was more tedious to do the chipping, etc in that size just because there was so much more of it. But his results were as excellent as his smaller stuff. Ahh, talent!

Chuck, Mig said, and I quote : "The big size made this task a bit complicated to me, used to 1/72, 1/48 and 1/35...it is too big and need a lot of time for each process or step. Sometimes you get tired to paint chips or effects in all surface...but...this is the 1/16 scale."

You were right Chuck and it's not me but the Master who says it!

QED  ;D ;D ;D ;)

Franck