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General Category => Painting & Weathering Techniques => Topic started by: marc_reusser on May 29, 2009, 04:44:54 PM



Title: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 29, 2009, 04:44:54 PM
I have been dying to give Don's method of Carving blue foam into brick walls a try, so last night I decided to give it a quick try.

A description of Don's method and one of his beautiful finished projects, can be seen here on the RR-Line forum;
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21835 (http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21835)


Being the way I am, I didn't go and read the method till I got to the paint and plaster stage, so my first steps were a bit different. Instead of using graph paper like Don, I drew the elevation/design (with each brick) in AutoCad, printed it out to scale, and then attached it to the blue foam using a low tack spray-mount. Using a straight edge and Xacto I went through and scored/cut the grout/brick lines through the paper and into the foam......this though left me with hundreds of tiny brick shaped pieces of paper that needed to be individually removed from the foam. (an interesting effect happened though in doing so, and that is that tiny, and very thin, amounts, of the blue foam surface lifted when pulling off the paper pieces, thus giving the bricks a slightly pitted surface...like old low-fire brick that has begun to erode on the surface).

Once all the lines were scored and some removal and deforming was done with tweezers and an Xacto, the entire wal was given a wash of Tamiya XF-10 "Flat Brown", drying was expedited using a blow-dryer. (The result is in the first image below).

Next the spackle was applied as per Don's method. While still damp, to tone down the plaster a bit, the entire wall was given a washes of Vallejo #821 "German WW2 Beige Camo", and Windsor & Newton Guache "Neutral Grey"... both washes were applied randomly, but primarily in downward brush strokes. Excess wash was dabbed off the surface of the bricks with a soft lint-free cotton towel & dampened brush. This process was repeated as/where needed/desired. (the second image shows the result with my 1/35 dude for scale).

Now I need to figure out what steps to do next....likely some more grout washes, and then picking out individual bricks and details.

So far it has been really simple, fun, fast and IMO yielded some neat results.


Marc










Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 29, 2009, 11:21:51 PM
This evening I did a couple of quick passes with some dark grey water color to try and darken the grout area a bit more, then using a couple of different shades of Vallejo colors picked-out some of the individual bricks. Lastly, working wet, a combination/mix of green Vallejo acrylic and and dark grey water color was used to create the mossy areas.

There is still stuff that could be done and worked on, but for a first try, and short time it took (carving 2 hrs.; paint, grout and stain 2hrs) I was pretty pleased with it.


Marc



Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 29, 2009, 11:22:50 PM
Two detail views.


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: finescalerr on May 30, 2009, 02:05:07 AM
Most satisfactory. And pretty stunning considering you spent only four hours. I hope to see you integrate this little jewel into a diorama. -- Russ


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 30, 2009, 02:18:30 AM
Thanks Russ.  I plan to combine it with the concrete experiment and some other stuff I want to try, and then it will probably find it's way to the waste bin.  I am just having some fun with small mindless little test stuff, that doesn't stress me, but still lets me practice and model a bit.

M


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: jacq01 on May 30, 2009, 02:48:09 PM

   Marc,

   is this the same as architectural foam board ?   
   This is a great SBS.........it will be very usefull when I start on the boilers and boiler house  ::) ::)

   Jacq


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 30, 2009, 03:18:52 PM
Jacq,

Its basically extruded ridgid insulation faom. Here it comes in pink and blue colors (depending on the mfr. Dupont (?)or Dow).  Mine is the blue stuff from Dow. It comes in standard thicknesses of 1", 1.5", 2", 3" and thicker...generally in sheets of 4'x8'. It has a tight and even cellular structure so it is quite dense with only really tiny pores.

I want to see how well it will work in a milling machine, to see If it is possible to mill the general shape, of say, a building wall with butress/column sections, window recesses and openings, and parapet details. Then apply and align the corresponding elevation drawing/brick pattern over it. This would help in eliminating the need to assmble adetailed elevation using bieces glued on top of eachother and resuting in diffcult to work with joints or glue locations...as well as allow for mich greater accuracy/consistency in tese details.

There is a modelere in Europe (France?) that Nick sent me a great article about by the name of Emanuell Nouallier (sp?), who seems to use Foam Core board (the thin stuff from art stores with paper on both sides) to create wonderful and creative brick, masonry, stucco and other building surfaces.  I am amazed at the look he achieves with it...I have not tried to replicate his technique...but that has been primarily because from my past experince with the product (built mock up, study, and full sized models from it for many years) I am not sure if it will give me what I am after, ...IMO it's way too porus/grained, It tends to warp and needs a lot of internal bracing/reinforcing, I hate dealing with having to pull of the paper surface, and numerous others.....but those are just my personal issues.

Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: danpickard on May 30, 2009, 03:59:31 PM
Marc,
Its looking like another successful trial.  I have looked over Don's method a few times myself, but havent found any local suppliers of the blue/pink foam yet (probably would get it up in Melbourne ok, but haven't been bothered to make the 1hr drive for a while!).  Nice subtle hints of the moss creeping in...a bit "Marcel-ish".

I think this is the article by Emmanuel Nouaillier you are refering too, of another diorama I have a bit of a soft spot for.  Amazingly its in HO.
 
http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4083

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4084


Dan


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 30, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
Thanks Dan, and thanks much for the links.

.....I was thinking (hoping) somehwere between Marcel & Per Olav. ;)

That is the one. I too really like that dio, one of my favorites....wonderful character, mood, and visuals, and beautifully done for HO.

I think he must be using a slightly differnt type of foam-core board than we have available to us here...his looks a lot denser. Plus he seem sto have access to a plastic backed version.

Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 30, 2009, 04:30:26 PM
The screaming neighbor kids woke me up from my sleep at 10 am this morning, so to make the best of it I grabbed a cup of coffee and sat down at my bench to fiddle around with this a bit more.

I took the piece that I cut out to create the arched opening and eyball scribed it to try and represent some Concrete block infill. This was then colored with some Tamiya colors,a nd accented with the Valleyo acrylics.

This time around I tinted the spackle with some dark grey Windsor & Newton watercolor. Additional staining and coloring was added sim to the brick wall.

Marc





Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 30, 2009, 04:39:32 PM
...and lastly it was glued back into the opening.


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: lab-dad on May 30, 2009, 05:11:04 PM
The infill looks friggin awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I bet you could mill the foam, have to ask someone who knows those things about what cutter.
I bet it would make one hell of a mess! heck the brass goes everywhere!
-Marty


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: chester on May 30, 2009, 05:51:34 PM
Wonderful look Marc. I might think twice about trying to mill this stuff however. I use it quite often in my work and it easily melts when high speed cutters are used. I cut it with an old handsaw in modeling and on a table saw at work.


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: jacq01 on May 31, 2009, 01:41:58 AM

  I know the work of Emmanuel Nouallier. Very nice and on the weathering side he appears to have the same view as Marcel.  A little extagered but extremely convincing ans appealing.

 The foamboard he is using is different than what you have used. I have some pale green stuff and will give it a try.
 When it works out ok, I'll be able to make a cut through brick boiler as the boiler house and engine house do not fit completely on the module and will therefore be cut so you can see inside.  A small paper mockup shows some nice surprising views.

  Jacq


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: TRAINS1941 on May 31, 2009, 07:31:07 AM
Marc

Great work!!  The infill is perfect.

Jerry


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on May 31, 2009, 11:44:49 AM
Marc,
Its looking like another successful trial.  I have looked over Don's method a few times myself, but havent found any local suppliers of the blue/pink foam yet (probably would get it up in Melbourne ok, but haven't been bothered to make the 1hr drive for a while!).  Nice subtle hints of the moss creeping in...a bit "Marcel-ish".

I think this is the article by Emmanuel Nouaillier you are refering too, of another diorama I have a bit of a soft spot for.  Amazingly its in HO.
 
http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4083

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4084


Dan


   Dan ,

   The articles I sent to Marc ( as far as I remember) were a set of three from the British magazine Continental Modeller dating from early 2007 . I am collecting as many of his articles as I can find ( I'm up to 10 so far) as I love his work as well .

   In Britain the pink and blue styrofoams aren't that common any more , it tends to be yellow urethane foam that dominates . It's a pity you live on the "wrong" side of the world as I have a mountain of the stuff waiting to be put into my house and you could have enough to last the rest of your life and then some .

  Marc ,

   The wall is looking better all the time and I like the blockwork infil .You have got a good texture for the blocks. I am thinking of doing some myself so your experiment is going to be very useful .
   There are two things that would improve it for me when the time comes to do it for real, firstly some more lighter reds incorporated in the brick colours and secondly less mortar on the bricks themselves as to me that suggests either sloppy workmanship on the bricky's part or the remains of a previous coat of render(stucco).

   Over here you can still see brick buildings that were once limewashed but the majority of which has washed away over the years , just leaving protected areas , such as under the eaves ,with any left . I think this would be quite a neat effect to have a go at, using very diluted washes of colour (maybe gauche)to represent the limewash . There would also be small pockets of limewash left on the bricks themselves , making them appear a bit blotchy .

   Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 01, 2009, 10:52:13 PM
Thanks Nick,

I agree, am still working out the kinks on the grout...part of it is due to the spackle collecting in some of the open pores. I also really want to play with the random coloring...however it is interesting, that there really is no one set type or coloring for brick walls.....I spent hours on sites collecting brick wall pics, and there is absolutely no consistency....at times not even within the same structure. Even here in town....every structure even when right next to eachother is different.  ::)

For some reason the spackle does not take "post application" coloring/staining well.....works best when pre-tinted. I might give the lightweight spackle a try to see if it works/reacts differently.

I am also interested in seeing how this technique will work with the "Precision Board" that was recommended to me. Apparently it's a much denser closed cell material...and it is meant for hand carving or machining....so the grouting may come out cleaner/crisper for newer, more intact walls. Waiting for samplpes. Will post an experiment when it arrives.

Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: lucas gargoloff on June 02, 2009, 05:17:05 AM
Nice tip Marc, let´s try mine today!! ;)


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: lucas gargoloff on June 02, 2009, 07:34:39 AM
Well, before go to work, try a quick test carving a piece of foam, stained with black ink, painted with acrylics, and finnally drybrushed with white. Only takes about 20 minutes to did. will do more patienly next time, but have to say... Marc, it really works!!!!! ;)

(http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/lucas_gargoloff/Chipped%20paint%20test/FoamCarved.jpg)


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: MrBrownstone on June 02, 2009, 06:34:27 PM
Marc

very very nice!

I like the infill as well.

hmmm..  that reminds me... :o

Mike


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Don Railton on June 05, 2009, 08:04:35 PM
Marc - Coming along nicely.  I'm interested in seeing the results using the Precision Board. 

What scale are you working with?

Don

http://public.fotki.com/DonRailton/


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 06, 2009, 12:11:06 AM
Thanks Don.....and a big thanks for sharing the method, and your results.

Hopefully I will get a chance to play with and do a side-by-side comparison of the Prescision Board and the blue foam this weekend. ..though as you may have read on TNGS, I have some trepidations re. the PB.

The wall above is in 1/35 Thats why I had to draw it out in CAD....couldn't find a correct scale 4x8 graph paper ;D.

One thing re. the PB that I didn't mention in the other post was, that it may answer your question in your thread/post re. using your approach in  HO (1:87)....I think the PB might just be dense enough to do that with.....I could definitely see it working in 1/72 and 1/64.


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marklayton on June 06, 2009, 07:01:07 PM
Quote
I want to see how well it will work in a milling machine

Marc -

Seeing how nice your wall experiment is looking, your question prompted me to get 3 ball-end end mills from MSC - 0.010", 0.015, and, 0.030", the approximate sizes for a dressed 1/2" mortar line at 1:48, 1:32, and 1:16 scales.  I had some scraps of pink board laying around in the shop, so gave that a try.  400 rpm left pretty smooth grooves, better than running faster at 3,600 or 2,000 rpm.  Found that no matter what the cutter speed, the feed rate had to be pretty slow, which was contrary to my expectations.  Pushing the feed rate caused small tear-outs.

Didn't have time to enter a program for a large area of wall, so just made a small area.  The results were nice, but in 1:48 scale, it's probably not worth the effort to use the mill - an X-Acto blade yields about the same look as that very small end mill.  But at 1:16, the 0.030" mill produced a wonderful concave mortar line that would to hard to make any other way.  I definitely want to set up a program for a larger section.

Securing the pink board to the milling machine table proved a bit tricky.  Normal t-slot clamps need to have large pads of wood or metal to spread the clamping force.  Even so, the foam compresses.  I supplemented the clamps with some steel bricks to keep things in place.  Probably best to cut the foam oversize and plan to cut off the edges that were subjected to clamping.

I have guests coming this week, so probably won't get back up to the shop (22 miles away) where the big milling machines live.

Mark


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 07, 2009, 02:57:42 PM
Mark,

Thanks for trying it and the great info. Very interesting.

I was actually not going to mill the grout lines, but rather the overall builidng wall profiles/shape (IE buttress areas, parapet stepping, water-table ledge, window recesses and sill, etc.)...then come in with the Xacto and cut in all the bricks. .....now,....if my mill was CNC, it might be another matter ;)

I was figuring rather than using the clamps to primarily hold the foam, of just usung the 3M double sided mounting film. I made an acrylic bed/suface for the mill so that I can mount things in this manner, and since the feed rate needs to be pretty slow, there should not be enough lateral force on the foam to shift/misalign it. Another option that I was thinking might work on small parts...especially those that needed angle and/or detail cuts is to use an asjutable milling vise. Place double sided tape on each of the Jaw surfaces....then tighten just enough to make the tape "grip"...but not enough to compress or deform the piece.

I was also thinking that a 4-flute bit might eliminate the chipping and allow a higher feed rate (unfortunately I don't have one to try it with).


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marklayton on June 07, 2009, 07:40:10 PM
Marc -

the only consideration I can see with milling the architectural details is that the skin will be removed, leaving a more fragile surface.  Wonder if there are any denser foams available?

Mark


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 07, 2009, 11:05:00 PM
Mark,

The Precison Board that I want to experiment with is much denser and more ridgid...it is meant for carving nad machining. Comes in numerous densities and types, with the 10# being the lightest and softest...but still denser and stiffer than the blue/pink foam......but I will need to see what kind of surface finish and textures can be achieved in the end....it might be too ridgid, and not give some of the "randomness" that occurs with the blue/pink foam.


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 09, 2009, 04:27:28 PM
While I had some of my reference material out (for a real world project), I ran across these two pages and thought they might be useful in understanding basic brickwork, and some of the terms.

The first image below shows the most common and typical brick wall patterns, and joint methods. There are other variations on/types of wall patterns, as can be seen in the second image (and these are just a couple). The arches shown in the first image are also just one type/method...if one looks around there are several more ways in which this was handled.

A couple of other additional wall variations/methods to the ones in the first image are:

'Heading Bond"; this can be seen in the second from bottom example on the right, in image 2.

'English Cross Bond'; this is similar to the 'English' bond in the image 1, except that ith has 3 stretcher courses between each bond course, instead of just 1. (I have also seen the English Cross Bond referred to as the "English Garden Wall Bond")

'Herring Bone'; can be seen in the bottom right in image 2.

'Basket Weave"; on the bottom left, in image 2.

There are also additional types of joints, that are not shown in the first image,. These are:

Beaded, Grapevine, and Squeezed (also called "Weeping")

The joints generally considered the most weather resitant are the; 'concave', and the 'v-joint'.

Note also that bricks came in many different sizes, the three below were the most commonly used sizes in the US (noted below in inches in 'nominal' [meaning it includes the joint] sizes for coursing)....these are the "typical' commercial sizes that they came in.....but as with everything, individual manufacturers would often have variations in the size..even though it was sold/marketed as the same name/type as below.

Standard Modular: 4 x 2-2/3 x 8
Roman: 4 x 2 x 12
Norman: 4 x 2-2/3 x 12

NOTE: Typically, mortar joint thicknesses are determined by the type and quality of  the unit.  Glazed brick are laid with a 1/4" joint; face brick with a 3/8" or 1/2" joint, and building brick with a 1/2" joint.

Also of note, is that bricks that were used for paving, where they were to be laid tight (such as "sand set") withouth a grout joint, did not use the same types/size of bricks that were used for walls.  There were also bricks made/sized specific for certain types of paving patterns (layout).


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 09, 2009, 05:03:36 PM
And just when you thought you might be getting a handle on it...here is some more info...some of it with some variation to the previous.


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on June 09, 2009, 05:05:42 PM
Marc ,

   I didn't see an image of Rat Trap Bond , or did I miss it ?

   Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on June 09, 2009, 05:08:39 PM
Actually you just posted some images of it while I was typing so I didn't see them until just now .

   Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 09, 2009, 05:20:09 PM
Nick,

Which one is the "Rat Trap Bond"?.....am not familiar with that term.


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 09, 2009, 11:21:09 PM
In a desperate serch to vindicate myself re. Nicks comment about my messily grouted wall  ;) ;D, I just had to take a pic of this wall on my ride today. This wall probably dates from around 1925-35.


What I actually found an interesting detail for future reference.....the dark weathering streaks in the second photo....note that the first and second images were taken only about 21' (7 meters) apart on the same wall....no streaking in the first, but there in the second.......why?......the streaks are due to the decomposing leaves (over years) that have been dropped on top of the wall at that location (probably also dirt/grime washed/dripped off the tree and onto the wall and washed down).

Note how the area below the 'watertable'/ledge is also darker...again from the decomposing vegetation, the accumulated grime from the upper wall section, and the splash from rain and irrigation on the adjacent ground surface.



Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 09, 2009, 11:37:25 PM
Here a couple more reference pics.

The first shows some of the brick degradation in the water table area.

The second is the sign at the gate...note that there are holes and cracks from a previous sign.


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 10, 2009, 12:00:14 AM
Lastly I edited the sign down to remove "Pasadena" in case somebody wants to use the sign for a model.


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: jacq01 on June 10, 2009, 03:25:35 AM

     great stuff,  love the very different effects of nature on such a small area.

     
Quote
Lastly I edited the sign down to remove "Pasadena" in case somebody wants to use the sign for a model.

     I will not infringe the council's rights when using this sign??  ::) ::)    3529 is only valid for Pasadena ?  ??? ???

     Jacq


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on June 10, 2009, 12:23:32 PM
Nick,

Which one is the "Rat Trap Bond"?.....am not familiar with that term.


Marc

  Marc ,

  What I call "Rat Trap Bond" is the same or similar to the "Ideal All-Rolok Walls" on the third page .

  This was sort of known as a "poor mans" brick bond as it used about a third less bricks in its construction and was therefore used in buildings where keeping costs down was important . It is actually an early version of a cavity wall because there are voids within the wall . This , ironically , probably meant that the houses kept warmer than an equivalent sized solid brick building because the air in the cavity helped slow down heat loss . I know of two houses that were built like this . I will try and get some photos , maybe next week .
  I have used this bond on a couple of occasions when I have built retaining walls . They are more decorative than structural as they are backed up by concrete blocks .They work best when the bricks have a roughish texture on the side that is visible .
   The wall in the photo is part of my front wall . The dark bricks are old paving bricks and the wall is curved .
  This is one of my favourite bonds ( how sad can you get , having favourite bonds) because it is not often used and if the right bricks are used can look very effective .

   Betcha wish you hadn't asked now ,


    Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 10, 2009, 02:06:32 PM
Jacq:
I am sure the city won't mind. ;)  Yes the ordinance is/was for Pasadena only....but what the ordinance is about is unknown to me. (Must be something regarding trespassing in city property ;) ;D).......a search through the Pasadena Minicipal Codes did not turn up an ordinance by that number......probably is one almost as old as the wall, and has since "fallen off the books".

I thought it was a neat sign, because here you typically see these types of signs in black & white, or red & white,...so the blue was different.


Nick:
Thanks for the clarification. We have had to use a similar construct (cavity wall) so that we could fill the core with reinforcing bar and cement. (Seismic requirements here in shakey California).  I like your wall.....wish there was more of it......I do however note that you did not use any 'king' or 'queen' closures at the corner on the right. (http://www.modellboard.net/Smileys/Modellboard/mad.gif)  (http://www.modellboard.net/Smileys/Modellboard/pffft.gif)


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on June 10, 2009, 03:55:50 PM
Marc,

   Have a look at the drawings that you posted . No King , Queen or even JOKER closers on those walls either , just two headers next to each other. The wall I posted a photo of runs into another wall that is laid differently and also what will eventually be a gate post . The bricks were laid so that the headers were in the centre of the bricks above and below , and the end bricks were just the size of the gap that was left .
  There is quite a bit more of the two walls in this bond , but much is covered by vegetation . I'll have a go at taking some more photos tomorrow .

  Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on June 11, 2009, 02:17:17 PM
Marc ,

   Here is a photo showing "the bigger picture" of my front wall .

   One day I'll finish it ,

  Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on June 11, 2009, 03:30:01 PM
Lovely.

I notice you have the closures on the house ;)


Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: jacq01 on June 11, 2009, 04:33:45 PM

   did you use Silverwood ???

   Jacq


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on June 12, 2009, 01:33:19 AM
Lovely.

I notice you have the closures on the house ;)


Marc

  It's not the house . It's my garage/workshop/playroom/sanctuary.
  Different brick bond ... different use of bricks . Closers are used on English bond but not on Rat Trap .


   Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Mr Potato Head on July 18, 2009, 09:25:06 PM
Marc
I got my samples of PBLT precision board while I was in Salt Lake. They gave me a 3 1/2" x 5" sample of every weight, and then they told me the cost!@#$. They said I could get any thinkness but it would be hard to ship in thiner sizes. I am going to use some of my samples for foundations and columns. I am still looking for something other than blue foam. I am planning on making a hot wire table to cut blue foam into different thickness, I have the wire and the electrical source all i need is some time to build it. I will post a picture when done. I will also post the walls when they are done, I have two cut, and two to go.
Gil Flores


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: finescalerr on July 19, 2009, 02:30:11 AM
Yo, Gil! Glad you could finally make it to the site. It's about time. -- Russ


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Mr Potato Head on July 19, 2009, 03:00:50 PM
Yo Unc!
I have been quietly monitoring the site and, was to busy and to lazy to log in! But I do really love this site; I have learned a ton just from reading and observing all the techniques, and great modelers. Thanks for being a great host! 
Gil Flores


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Mr Potato Head on November 01, 2009, 05:33:16 AM
I went to the website that features Emmanuel Nouaillier and he used a term called "Forex" and I went looking for a website here's what I found www.alcankapa.com. Also there is a product called Gatorboard, both of these are for advertizing and are ment to be used outdoors. I am going to my local supplier next week to see if they have something simular. Plus according to Emmanuel it looks like he strips his foam core board to get a nice thin application of foam to make his brick walls! I will try to do this, i also have been collecting the foam trays that meat comes on, and I will try to use that. Some comes the color of brick, so theres one step that can be eliminated.
Gil
happy brick laying ;D


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: RoughboyModelworks on November 01, 2009, 12:44:04 PM
It's not the house . It's my garage/workshop/playroom/sanctuary.
   Nick

Oh man, looks like a little slice of heaven-on-earth to me... decent size workshop below, apartment above, what more do we need.  :)

Paul


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on November 01, 2009, 02:31:19 PM
It's not the house . It's my garage/workshop/playroom/sanctuary.
   Nick

Oh man, looks like a little slice of heaven-on-earth to me... decent size workshop below, apartment above, what more do we need.  :)

Paul

  Cor , talk about delayed reaction , it's months since I posted that . As to your question , "what more do we need ?", I think Russ will have the answer . A thong bikini-clad girl mopping you brow while serving ice cold drinks in the summer and hot toddies in the winter !
  The problem with my little slice of heaven-on-earth at the moment is that both upstairs and downstairs are dumping grounds for mine and the rest of the family's junk ,making the spaces less useful than they might be .

  Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: RoughboyModelworks on November 01, 2009, 05:31:12 PM
Nick:

I must have overlooked the photo, fairly easy to do since the majority of the forum seems to be overcome with fantasies of subservient young women in thongs...  ;)

Well, sorry to hear that your workshop and sanctuary are doing double-duty as a storage facility. Hopefully you'll be able to reclaim your space as work progresses on the rest of your property. Why don't families realize that workshops are sacred, hallowed halls to be forever free of their clutter but filled to the brim with ours... :)

Paul



Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: michael mott on January 03, 2010, 11:59:37 AM
Marc said
Quote
I spent hours on sites collecting brick wall pics, and there is absolutely no consistency....at times not even within the same structure. Even here in town....every structure even when right next to eachother is different.

I had the opportunity to take a tour through the Medicine Hat Potteries where they used to make clay bricks and tiles and sewer pipes back in the early 70's during a kiln building course that I was on.

Marc one of the reasons for the colour changes on a lot of the older brick is because of the way they are stacked on the trolleys that move the bricks through the kiln when they are fired. The flames that carry all sorts of natural elements in them as they passed affected the bricks.  A lot of bricks have a colouration that is divided into thirds, this is also from the way that the bricks were stacked. The flames and the firing burns out some of the natural impurities of the clays that are used to make the bricks, and this adds to the chemical reactions during the fireing proccess.

regards Michael


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: finescalerr on January 03, 2010, 02:12:13 PM
And how do you replicate that accurately on a 1:48 or 1:87 scale brick? (I'm not being a smart alec; such subtleties as you describe can make a big difference to the appearance of a model, as can slight variations in the alignment of each brick, chips, discoloration, stains, and other imperfections.) -- Russ


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: michael mott on January 04, 2010, 01:06:47 AM
Russ, you ask a good question, I am not sure that I know the answer, It would in all likelyhood require a very dedicated and steady hand to accomplish this in 3D however painting each brick individually would most probably yield the best results, I know that there is a chap in England (Derek Bidwell) who paints individual bricks after sticking them onto a substrate. It would be interesting to see what is possible in paper with a printed surface. I know you have done some experiments with wood.

Michael


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: finescalerr on January 04, 2010, 03:02:25 AM
I have experimented with printing a photograph of actual brick on papers of various textures and have had the best luck with 90 pound Lanaquarelle cold press from France. Still the bricks are so small that I've been unable to detect three shades on a single brick. That aside, an embossed print looks darned good ... BUT:

Paper has some serious problems, the most difficult to resolve being corners. Folds tear or distress the paper. Joints leave an oversize divot to fill and color.

Russ


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on January 04, 2010, 03:30:39 AM
Michael,

Great info. Thanks.  Nice to see you're still hanging around. How is your wunderful layout coming along?

Russ
It's not hard to paint each brick seperately.....just absolutely mind numbing...remember these, 1/35, and scratched from plastic.

(http://www.rbadesign.net/TERRAPIN/Reusser_Military/MR_38tOOB/MR_38tOOB_BricksFinished.jpg)



MR


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on January 04, 2010, 04:02:47 AM
If it is painting individual bricks on card in 1/87th scale (or any other scale for that matter) THE one reference book that is a must is Chris Pilton's Cottage Modelling for Pendon published by Wild Swan . This book goes through the whole process of constructing and painting buildings made out of card with fantastic results. Each brick is scribed and painted individually, often with more than one colour , to give some of the best looking buildings in any scale , and these are 1/76th scale . The only shortcoming of the book is that there are not enough colour photos .
 Check out www.pendonmuseum.com for more info .

 I really must make the effort to go and visit one day .

 Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: michael mott on January 04, 2010, 10:58:11 AM
Russ
I hear you regarding folding paper, on Macton I used 140lb Arches watercolour paper to make the bricks, it was also mind numbing cutting them and gluing them on, however once done painting with watercolour washes is a joy when dealing with fine colour variances.

Marc
Macton is in the storage camper at the moment, I hope to get some work done on it when I have a bit more room. Presently I am working on the drawings for one of the 18 inch gauge steam locomotives that were used in the Crew Locomotive Works, I started to make a small 1/24th scale model which I hope to complete before building a 1/8 scale accurate model of the loco. I will start a thread on the 1/24th loco.

Nick
One of my regrets when last in England was not visiting Pendon, I used to dream about visiting as a young lad in the fifties.

Michael


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Brian Donovan on January 04, 2010, 08:10:14 PM
Nice work Marc. Almost as nice as a pink foam brick station I did for a nephew a couple of years ago  ;)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n214/altterrain/building%20projects/IanvilleStat1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n214/altterrain/building%20projects/IanvilleStat2.jpg)


-Brian


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: finescalerr on January 05, 2010, 03:15:19 AM
Brian, go stand in the corner. And no peeking! -- Russ


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on January 05, 2010, 03:23:05 AM
Russ ,

  I guess that you will now be demanding an article from Brian on how he built his magnificent station . Does that mean you won't want my article anymore ?

  Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: eTraxx on May 17, 2010, 07:01:51 PM
Old thread. What ever happened with the Precision Board?


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 18, 2010, 03:07:58 AM
It's still sitting here in search of the right project. ;) ;D


MR


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: eTraxx on May 18, 2010, 04:40:24 AM
Ok. Thanks. After reading that thread, I was curious to stumble around the net a bit. My gosh that stuff is expensive! Precision Board is a brand name for HDU (High Density Urethane) but everywhere I looked it is much the same. I didn't find anything of a reasonable thickness. In an case, where looking around I ran across 'Castable Rigid Urethane Foam' by Foam-it. It says it's available in 3,5,8,10 and 15-pound densities. I was looking at that and wondering if it might be possible to 'cast your own' sheets. It is certainly a lot more reasonable. They have a 1.9 lb 'trial size' for $25

http://www.smooth-on.com/Rigid-and-Flexible/c10_1122/index.html?catdepth=1


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Don Railton on May 22, 2010, 09:34:53 PM
Speaking of old posts and Styrofoam, I was inspired from pictures of a building created by the Danish artist Troels Kirk.  Approximately half of the building was foundation made of block stone.  Unlike Troels’ design, I based my foundation on a stone wall entrance to a golf course about one mile from my home. 

Carving is time consuming but it is a bit faster than placing one brick, then another, then another…

Don



Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Don Railton on May 22, 2010, 09:36:45 PM
More shots.


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Malachi Constant on May 22, 2010, 09:47:27 PM
Don --

Thanks for the multiple pix!  The bricks are rotten ... in a rather convincing way ... coloring on the roof shingles is equally impressive.


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Ray Dunakin on May 22, 2010, 10:07:03 PM
Nice little building!


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: finescalerr on May 23, 2010, 02:19:16 AM
Don, are you in town? Haven't seen anything from you in a long time. Nice work. -- Russ


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: eTraxx on May 23, 2010, 04:32:39 AM
@don .. that building is certainly "Troels Kirk'ish" .. :) .. excellent!
Question: Is this the blue/pink styrofoam? and what scale please?


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Don Railton on May 23, 2010, 07:21:08 AM
Hello Russ - Not in town but in NY.  I have been spending some of my time "re-doing" the cellar (lots of fun).  Maybe I can get out to CA at the end of the year and make another Terrapin meet. 

eTraxx - It is the blue stuff from Lowes.  The scale is 1/32.

Don
 


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: finescalerr on May 23, 2010, 01:26:59 PM
Don, I meant your town, not mine. Seems like last time you posted you said something about doing some traveling. It's good to see that you also found time to do a little high quality modeling. -- Russ


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Don Railton on May 23, 2010, 07:37:38 PM
Russ - I do travel on my job about 20 weeks per year in an area that covers from Maine to Washington, DC to Wisconsin.   The frequent flyer miles add up.

Don   


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: marc_reusser on May 23, 2010, 09:58:58 PM
Don,

I think this came out great. I like the dry-stack ledgestone effect that you have created.

Marc


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Don Railton on May 24, 2010, 01:34:36 PM
Thanks Marc, Ray, Russ and Dallas - I hope this thread continues with some examples from others of carved brick, stone, block etc.   This is another option when working in the larger scales.

Don


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Malachi Constant on May 24, 2010, 05:45:37 PM
I suppose this item is tangentially related ... took some cast-foam retaining walls and cut them up to make a "tiny" stone station in 1:35 ... using Magic Sculp to make fill-in stones where the wall sections are dove tailed together.


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Ray Dunakin on May 24, 2010, 11:26:11 PM
Looking good, Dallas! I like tiny buildings like that. What was the source of the foam walls?


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Malachi Constant on May 24, 2010, 11:48:11 PM
Hi Ray --

Those were some Scenic Express retaining walls (purportedly HO) that I picked up at a train show -- kept the sku sticker in case I need more:
http://www.sceneryexpress.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FL4151

These are some kind of pressure-cast foam -- and there were some waves (distortions) in some of the stone courses that I had to cut out.  Also, the walls weren't quite tall enough for 1/35, so I cut the pieces for this station from two walls and used the "cap stones" from one to make an ornamental stone band at belt level.  Used an electric scroll saw to cut the walls, and that worked extremely well at making clean cuts in the foam.


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Don Railton on May 25, 2010, 07:03:37 AM
Dallas - Good job on the corners.  It gets to be a challenge when you have carved brick and you need a seamless transition.  I have slopped joint compound on the edges, allowed it to dry and then started carving.

Don


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Ken Hamilton on May 28, 2010, 07:46:20 AM
It gets to be a challenge when you have carved brick and you need a seamless transition. 
Don
Nice job, Dallas....and you're not kidding, Don.  Just to add my 2-cents here, the outcropping of the partially
demolished wall on the right side of this picture was done by cutting individual mat board bricks (1/87th) and
attaching them at a right angle to the ghost wall in the background (...this is the best picture I have of that section):

(http://images38.fotki.com/v1221/photos/1/15405/5779607/P6280002A-vi.jpg)

(PS: This unfinished diorama has been on hold since I stuck my hand through the foreground power lines and poles)


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: shropshire lad on May 28, 2010, 11:06:48 AM
Ken ,

    How painful was the electric shock ? Did you need to get treatment for it ?

  Nick


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: eTraxx on May 28, 2010, 11:21:32 AM
Ken ,

    How painful was the electric shock ? Did you need to get treatment for it ?

  Nick
Of course .. the electro shock .. COULD ... have BEEN the treatment ..


Title: Re: Brick Wall (using Don Railton's approach)
Post by: Don Railton on May 29, 2010, 09:56:47 PM
Ken - I did a 1/48 building in carved Styrofoam brick but the bricks came out a bit too large for the scale.  I doubt I will ever attempt 1/87.  Your brick looks very convincing in that scale.  It reminds me of Emmanuel Nouaillier's brick buildings. 

I have respect for the kit manufactures who have the skill and patience to carve brick in 1/87.  One of those guys being a member of this group, Dave (DaKra).

Don