And now for something completely different, building the Mantua Model 1:98 HMS Victory plank-on-frame model. I purchased this kit in 1979 and have been hauling it back and forth around the U.S. and Canada ever since. Mrs. R, cherry-cheeked daughter of Queen Boadicea and a Navajo warrior, has mandated that it is now time to build this model. This kit is still produced, though now all the pieces are laser cut. In this original version, you have to cut all the pieces yourself, lots and lots and lots of scroll saw and jewellers saw work.
The first step was to construct a build board to provide a stable base and reference platform while assembling the model, particularly important when building up the hull. I built mine from 3/4" Birch ply and Maple based on a design in the book pictured, The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships by C. Nepean Longridge, without a doubt the best reference book on building a model of the Victory. Construction is straight forward, the plywood base has two Maple stringers on the underside for added stability and ease in picking up and moving the board. The grooved Maple strip along the centre-line supports the keel (and ultimately the entire model) during construction. The travelling frame, useful for taking and checking measurements during hull construction, can be positioned at precise points along the hull and is made from Maple and held in position with press-fit brass pegs. The porcelain knobs were salvaged from an old china hutch. The challenge in the construction of the build board was accuracy in layout and construction: the frame has to be square to the centre-line at all positions along the board.
The L-shaped piece in the foreground is the start of the keel and a modification I'm making to the model. The kit keel is plywood and I've modified it to accept the walnut version which will look much better on a finished model. It's made of several pieces, joined by miniature scarf joints and tree-nails. Currently working on the bow pieces, Gripe and Knee of Head, which are also Walnut.
VictoryBuildBoardFinalSm.jpg
I grew up a few miles from Portsmouth (England) and Victory has always been in the background of my life.
But I'm no expert. If you haven't seen HMS Victory - Her construction, career and restoration (Alan McGowan, 1999), it is worth a look. 200 pages with very good drawings and photos.
Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on October 06, 2021, 12:23:50 PM
If you haven't seen HMS Victory - Her construction, career and restoration (Alan McGowan, 1999), it is worth a look. 200 pages with very good drawings and photos.
Thanks for the reference Lawrence, I'll see if I can track it down. I last saw the Victory in 1980 on a trip to the UK, drove down from London in a Triumph as I recall. Dr. Longridge's book was first published in 1955 and there are later editions, mine is from 1974. The book chronicles in exhaustive detail the construction of the original ship as well as Dr. Longridge's model which was in the Science Museum in London. I don't know if the model is still on display or not.
I have that book. At one time I was foolish enough to think I might build plank on frame sailing ships but quickly realized my error. -- Russ
An impressive build table.
Walnut instead of plywood sounds good for the keel, but will the bottom be copper clad?
I have not yet built a ship model on spanners. But arched car roofs, which went very well. The slipway looks very professional.
Quote from: finescalerr on October 06, 2021, 01:39:30 PM
I have that book. At one time I was foolish enough to think I might build plank on frame sailing ships but quickly realized my error. -- Russ
That might have been briefly in my mind too.
Quote
Thanks for the reference Lawrence, I'll see if I can track it down. I last saw the Victory in 1980 on a trip to the UK, drove down from London in a Triumph as I recall. Dr. Longridge's book was first published in 1955 and there are later editions, mine is from 1974. The book chronicles in exhaustive detail the construction of the original ship as well as Dr. Longridge's model which was in the Science Museum in London. I don't know if the model is still on display or not.
It's easy to find secondhand on line. Abe books or amazon.
Thanks Bill and Helmut, much appreciated.
Quote from: Bill Gill on October 06, 2021, 05:08:07 PM
An impressive build table.
Walnut instead of plywood sounds good for the keel, but will the bottom be copper clad?
I'm undecided at this point about the copper cladding. I'm taking some artistic license with the model, example the Walnut keel and I plan to use Walnut to highlight some other construction details on the model, so it won't be an historically accurate model. Visually, I've never really liked copper cladding on a model, but fortunately it's not a decision I have to make for some time. Additionally it will depend on the availability of the correct thickness copper foil. With the exception of plywood and Maple, basic woodscrews and bolts, everything I use in the workshop has to be mail-ordered in. We live in an absolute desert here as far as model-making supplies are concerned.
Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on October 07, 2021, 01:34:33 PM
Quote
Thanks for the reference Lawrence, I'll see if I can track it down. I last saw the Victory in 1980 on a trip to the UK, drove down from London in a Triumph as I recall. Dr. Longridge's book was first published in 1955 and there are later editions, mine is from 1974. The book chronicles in exhaustive detail the construction of the original ship as well as Dr. Longridge's model which was in the Science Museum in London. I don't know if the model is still on display or not.
It's easy to find secondhand on line. Abe books or amazon.
I did find it on Amazon, though it's not currently available and priced at $250.00 new, it's out of the question. Used copies work out to around $65 each, whether Amazon or Abe, factoring in shipping and currency exchange. Even that is a little steep for our pocketbook as we live solely on our pensions. Thankfully, I've had Dr. Longridge's book for as long as I've had the model in addition to a lot of other classic ship-building publications and reference photos from various museum sources, so I should be good given that I'm not building an exact historically accurate model, but exercising some artistic license in the use of specific woods. Nevertheless I appreciate your interest and the reference suggestion.
Hello Paul
I know, this is still far away. Nevertheless some very interesting reading concerning the colours of this ship:
https://www.nmrn.org.uk/news-events/nmrn-blog/hms-victory-be-re-painted-battle-trafalgar-colours-after-210-years
https://www.nmrn.org.uk/news-events/nmrn-blog/hms-victory-her-true-colours
A very interesting subject - So what sort of size will this little treasure be -
Barney
Thank you for the links Peter, very informative and a useful reference. As you say, that process is a long way off at this point and I'm not entirely sure I'm going to paint the model as I've always preferred a varnished wood appearance on ship models.
Barney, when fully rigged, the overall size is approx. 40" long by 30" high, a fair size. One thing for sure, it will need a whacking great display case.
Wow, that's going to be huge!
When we used to go to the county fair, one of my favorite things was the woodworking exhibit, which always had some fantastic model ships as well as life-like bird carvings and other neat stuff.
Currently there is a restoration project going on to the full sized ship. When they removed the masts as part of the project, they discovered a coin from when the mats were first stepped under one of the masts. Probably the main mast. Do not forget to include this detail once you get to the stage where you step the masts.
Start of project looks great and I believe will be instructive to those of us who consider a boat to be "A hole in the water into which a rich man pours money".
Quote from: Lawton Maner on October 22, 2021, 07:47:28 AM
Currently there is a restoration project going on to the full sized ship. When they removed the masts as part of the project, they discovered a coin from when the mats were first stepped under one of the masts. Probably the main mast. Do not forget to include this detail once you get to the stage where you step the masts.
Start of project looks great and I believe will be instructive to those of us who consider a boat to be "A hole in the water into which a rich man pours money".
The coin under the mast is a long-standing tradition and is still practised today. It is an offering to bring good luck and safe passage. Believe I have an old English Farthing tucked away which would seem appropriate for the model. Boats are indeed holes in the water into which you pour money, but fortunately, being definitely not a rich man, the only expense for this one is the exorbitant amount of time it will take to build it.
The coin is still a sign of good luck even with the construction of steel hulls. When the keel of the Frigate California was laid in the late 1960's thee was a new coin placed under the dedication plate on it, and a penny was tossed into the first melt of steel for the castings to come from the foundry.
The fixture you built for erecting the frames an intriguing bit of work.
As for the copper cladding on the hull, since you are using walnut and other non-traditional woods for the construction, could you partially cover a small portion of the hull with copper leaf to represent the cladding. Here is a link to a vendor that has the foil ( https://www.riogrande.com/product/copper-metal-patent-leaf/681126 ) The use of the cabinet woods is forcing the observer to focus on the construction techniques in addition to your skills.
Quote from: Lawton Maner on October 23, 2021, 08:34:57 AM
The fixture you built for erecting the frames an intriguing bit of work.
As for the copper cladding on the hull, since you are using walnut and other non-traditional woods for the construction, could you partially cover a small portion of the hull with copper leaf to represent the cladding. Here is a link to a vendor that has the foil ( https://www.riogrande.com/product/copper-metal-patent-leaf/681126 ) The use of the cabinet woods is forcing the observer to focus on the construction techniques in addition to your skills.
Thanks Lawton and thanks for the link to RioGrande... been a long time since I ordered from them. There's a jewellers' supply house in Toronto that is also quite good, I've ordered several items from them over the past couple of years. Cladding part of the lower hull in copper is a good idea, perhaps one side in copper and the other in finished wood, my preference is for finished wood. But then if my planking skills aren't quite up to par, then the copper cladding will serve to disguise it somewhat... ;)
Gimme a break, Paul. Your planking skills will be outstanding. -- Russ
Paul, I'm afraid their planking will be so perfect that it's too bad to cover them with copper.
Thank you Russ and Helmut for your confidence in me... much appreciated.
Small update on the Victory. Finished scratching the keel, sternpost, and inner post assembly. Joints between the sternpost/keel and inner post/keel are reinforced with .030" dia. Boxwood treenails (the ends of which are visible on the bottom of the keel). The rabbets running along the keel and up the sternpost accommodate the lower edge and ends of the planks so they fair neatly into the keel structure. Had originally planned to make the keel from Walnut but couldn't source any walnut locally (at least in a size I could work with) so used some Mahogany I had in stock.
SternpostTreenails.jpg
The aluminum block in the background is my sanding gubbins. I lapped one surface flat on the surface plate then glued sandpaper onto that lapped surface. Like a miniature jointer plane it works perfectly for sanding small surfaces, joints, and edges flat and true. Now working on cutting the individual pieces that make up the stem and bow portion of the keel.
Ho-hum, merely another example of your usual level of perfection. -- Russ
Work continues on the keel, this time the Bow timbers. First photo shows the main Bow timbers cut and ready for glue-up... bit of a jigsaw puzzle! Lot of careful scroll saw and razor saw work.
BowJigsawInsta.jpg
Second photo shows the assembly after glue-up and a light sanding. There remain five more curved pieces (stemson and boxing) to be cut and assembled to the inside edge (left-hand curved edge in photo) before this assembly can be joined to the existing keel.
BowGlueupInsta.jpg
I can't believe you did that with hand tools. I'd need a CAD program to make anything look like that. -- Russ
Quote from: finescalerr on January 17, 2022, 11:31:09 AM
I can't believe you did that with hand tools. I'd need a CAD program to make anything look like that. -- Russ
The scroll saw is electric, which I used for most of the curved cuts, jeweller's saw for the tightest curve. The long straight cuts were done with the scroll saw, the short ones were cut with a razor saw. All analogue work, no computers involved. I started with vellum templates copied from the original plan, cut out, and then glued to the stock. I then used the templates as cutting guides.
I can't believe how precise the joints are! Everything fits together perfectly!
Paul, excellent joinery to look at. Do you "shave" the joint faces with some kind of fine "plane" for the final fitting?
What an incredible precision! I can well imagine that working with wood in this way must be very satisfactory...
Thanks Ray, Bill, and Peter. Yes, it is satisfying, at least when it comes out right!
Quote from: Bill Gill on January 18, 2022, 12:08:13 PM
Paul, excellent joinery to look at. Do you "shave" the joint faces with some kind of fine "plane" for the final fitting?
Not really Bill. I use my aluminum sanding gubbins (in the background in the sternpost photo a couple of posts back). I lapped one surface of an aluminum block on the surface plate to get it absolutely flat, then glued on a piece of sandpaper. With that I can remove saw marks from the straight cuts, kind of like a miniature jointer plane. I use a sanding drum with a fine grit paper in the mill to remove saw marks on the curved cuts. The drum sits into a cavity (slightly larger than the drum's outside dia.) in a block setup on the mill. The top surface of the block is 90 degrees to the drum surface, so this works quite well truing up edges. The original cuts of course need to be as accurate as possible, the sanding just removes marks left by the saw. Too much sanding will destroy the accuracy of the joints.
Bill, here's the drum-sanding setup I was trying to describe. Simply a scrap block of MDF with a hole bored in it, slightly larger than the diameter of the 400 grit sanding drum. Using very light passes, it removes marks left by the saw and trues the curves up nicely. Surface of the drum is 90 degrees to the surface of the MDF.
SandingSetupInsta.jpg
A very nice bit of machinery and of course excellent woodworking skills
Barney
Thanks, Paul. Nice set up. It's the skill in employing the tools that's most impressive.
If you're ever looking for a second hobby, I watched this 20 min YouTube interview about a guy who hand grinds and polishes VERY precise reflective tiny telescopes out of a solid blank of opitical glass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxwhCmO90UQ
Nice rig!
Good idea! Simple, but good effect.
Bernhard
Thanks Barney, Bill, Ray, and Bernhard.
Bill: I watched the mini-telescope making video... incredibly impressive stuff. Really can't understand how he does it. Amazing skill. Not looking for another hobby tho. Apart from all the projects on the modelbench, I have three antique clocks to repair and restore and the kitchen redo to finish. Barely leaves enough time for 9-ball and snooker!
Here are a couple of photos of a little machine that Santa left. It's a mini-belt sander of unknown manufacture (probably China) and it's surprisingly well-made and precise for the modest cost (less than $100 CDN). Apart from the switch housing which is bent aluminum, it's all made of well-machined aluminum blocks and plates, assembled with socket-head cap screws throughout. All pulleys sit on ball bearings and there are seven speed settings. Fully adjustable, it's perfect for sanding small parts and with the addition of a 25 degree or 30 degree angle block (clamped to the adjustable table), I've used it to sharpen knives, chisels, and small plane irons. Belts are 3/8" wide, belt tension and tracking can also be adjusted. It's a great little piece of kit.
BeltSander1Insta.jpg
BeltSander2Insta.jpg
As an aside, I've started working with photo-stacking. These photos, the keel timber photos, and the sanding drum photo setup were all shot with my Samsung phone camera on the tripod. The multiple shots were then stacked in Helicon Focus which is simple and fast. Load the photos (I've been using 6-7 images per stack), press the button, and the software takes 2-3 seconds to render the final image... brilliant. There are lots of processing adjustments that can be made of course, but I just use the default setting.
Hi, Paul -
I have an identical little belt sander, and it does work very well.
However, I can't seem to source the 3/8" X 13" belts for it.
Better still, I think a 1/2" X 13" belt would just fit the pulleys.
Do you know any sources for belts for what seem to be this "odd" belt length of 13"?
Carlo
Amazon has them Carlo, at least here in Canada. You can get a pack of 24 belts, 4 each of 6 different grits, for just under $17.00 CDN.
What an exquisite little power tool. And your work with Helicon Focus is terrific. -- Russ
Paul - I found them on Amazon US too.
I don't know why I didn't see them before.
Thanks, Carlo
You're welcome Carlo. Glad they're readily available in the U.S. as well.
Quote from: finescalerr on January 22, 2022, 12:43:00 AM
What an exquisite little power tool. And your work with Helicon Focus is terrific. -- Russ
Thanks Russ, the sander really is an excellent little machine. I'm still surprised with the quality, especially for a Chinese import, which as we know, don't always live up to their promise.
Yes, Helicon Focus is brilliant. Developed primarily for DSLRs, but it works surprisingly well with cell phone cameras, as long as your camera has selective focus ability. There is tremendous complexity built into the program, but I just use it at the default settings.
A little more progress on the bow timbers, all pieces are now assembled and ready for cutting the rabbet to accommodate the forward ends of the planks. First photo shows the items needed to cut the rabbet on the starboard side: Front-to-rear: formed brass pattern matching the outside curve of the rabbet line; assembled bow timbers; baseboard with slots to accommodate clamps that hold pattern to the timbers. In addition are the Mortice Gauge, rawhide mallet, marking knife, and two small chisels for cutting the rabbet. I formed the brass pattern from some scale channel in a small bending roller to get the curve right, then soldered on some machined brass feet so the pattern could be clamped to the timbers.
BowRabbetSetup1Insta.jpg
Second photo shows the brass pattern clamped in position on the bow timbers and that assembly set into place on the baseboard ready for marking out and chiselling out the rabbet on the starboard side. All components can be flipped over for chiselling out a matching rabbet on the port side.
BowRabbetSetup2Insta.jpg
If you ever finish that model, and if you are able to maintain your extremely high standards, it should go to a museum or other gallery where it is very well protected and people can admire it forever. -- Russ
Fascinating!
Does anyone have a link for where to buy that little sander? It looks like just the thing...
Quote from: finescalerr on February 28, 2022, 08:36:20 PM
If you ever finish that model, and if you are able to maintain your extremely high standards, it should go to a museum or other gallery where it is very well protected and people can admire it forever. -- Russ
Well, speed modelling is not my specialty, I enjoy the process too much, but once the scratched keel is complete, it's on to the plywood inner structure members of the kit which will be relatively quick. The pressure is on though, need to get this done before I'm too old, sick, or stupid to finish it! ;)
Quote from: SandiaPaul on March 01, 2022, 03:05:22 AM
Does anyone have a link for where to buy that little sander? It looks like just the thing...
Paul, this one came from Amazon Canada, so I expect it should be available from Amazon in the U.S. or elsewhere. Just search mini-belt sanders and it should come up.
Plank-end rabbets are now cut in the bow timbers on both Port and Starboard sides. This completes work at this point on the bow timbers. The brass pattern and baseplate worked well. I trued up the rabbets using an angled dental burr in the flex shaft tool. Be a bit of a lull now in the model shop. There is a huge amount of chainsaw milling to be done, plus I'm expanding the workshop, bringing in my cabinet makers bench to make room for assembly of the Victory.
BowTimbersInsta.jpg
Paul,
I checked out a few of your youtube vids, nice, thanks for taking the time to make them for everyone.
Not bad. -- Russ
Quote from: SandiaPaul on March 15, 2022, 05:58:14 PM
Paul,
I checked out a few of your youtube vids, nice, thanks for taking the time to make them for everyone.
Thanks Paul. The YouTube channel is a fairly new venture, Mrs. R. being the primary motivator. Being such an esoteric subject, with no coverage of explosions or fires (hopefully), police pursuits, mine exploring, lawn mowing, pressure washing, or scantily clad women (more's the pity), I had little hope for the channel but have been pleasantly surprised by the amount of interest it has generated, at least among the ship modelling community.
Spent the past couple of weeks rearranging the workshop to accommodate my cabinet-makers bench. The bench has lived in the garage for the past seven years which has limited its usability to six months of the year due to the garage not being climate-controlled. Now that it's in the modelshop in the house, it's in a stable environment and is available for year-round use, primarily to function as the dedicated "shipyard" for the construction of the Victory, though it will be pressed into service for some other woodworking projects on my to-do list. In the photo the Victory buildboard is in place with the keel set into the keel support.
I built the bench in 1989 from Maple and Cherry with Record vise hardware. It's been well-travelled over the past thirty-some years and has held up well considering the variety of environments it's lived in and the variety of work that's been done on it. At one point it was in our motorcycle shop and served as a bench for rebuilding engines and motorcycle frames! That was the darkest point in its history as it was stolen, fortunately recovered two years later. Before this latest move, I scraped, sanded, steel-wooled, and hard-waxed the top, and replaced the leather on the clamping surfaces of the tail vise, so it should be good for at least another thirty years. It's an absolute beast to move (the top does separate from the support frame) and I owe a massive thank-you to my friend Jeff who helped with schlepping this back-breaker from the garage to the shop.
CabinetMakersBenchInsta.jpg
All that history gives the bench great character ... not to mention the character who built it. -- Russ
Very Nice and a lovely finish to a good bit of workmanship
Barney
How did you manage to recover it two years after it was stolen?
Thanks guys. It does have a lovely patina to it now and plenty of honest scars from all the work done on it, which add to the character.
Quote from: Ray Dunakin on April 17, 2022, 06:02:17 PM
How did you manage to recover it two years after it was stolen?
It was relatively simple Ray because we knew who had the bench. One weekend when I wasn't able to be in the motorcycle shop, our corrupt S.O.B. business partner cleared everything out of the shop and moved it to his house, a process known as " direct conversion." It is, of course, illegal, and amounts to theft. His motivation appears to have been to extort money from us to cover his losses in the business. It took two years of legal wrangling to resolve the issue and have the bench plus several other significant items returned to us. We could have taken it to court, but our lawyer advised against that as it would just turn into a pissing contest and drag on forever. The bench suffered some as he left it standing on end in his garage! Fortunately, our lawyer was much better than his, plus we have good friends in the motorcycle community who assisted with karma. Of course, I know nothing about that.
I have a similar one in my shop that I made about 40 years ago. Simpler design, but it takes also 3 men and a trip to my favorite BBQ restaurant to move.
Now that you have a shipway to build the model on, it needs to be inclined to about 1/2" to the foot so that when launched she will easily slide into the water. Working on the USS California in the early 1970's it felt normal to work on an inclined hull and then when launched, working on it in the water felt strange for a couple of days.
Quote from: Lawton Maner on April 20, 2022, 09:17:53 AM
I have a similar one in my shop that I made about 40 years ago. Simpler design, but it takes also 3 men and a trip to my favorite BBQ restaurant to move.
Yes, they are a beast to move. The top on mine is about 250lbs. I lightened it a little by removing all the vise hardware and the tail vise before moving it, but it's still a backbreaker. Unfortunately though, we don't have the luxury of a BBQ restaurant here to restore our tissues. Ontario doesn't know what good BBQ is. One of the hardest things we've had to adjust to since moving here is the universal blandness of the food.
I can imagine it took some adjustment to switch from working on a rigid inclined deck to a floating, somewhat level deck. The keep strip on the buildboard should be tapered. I haven't done so yet, but will do so when it comes time to begin planking. I need to plane the underside of the keel strip with the jointer plane so that the aft end is approx. .125" thinner than the bow end. The ship drew about 1 ft. more aft than forward, and the tapered keel strip will help get the water lines horizontal.
Since I am left handed, the bench was made to be a mirror image of the usual ones. The side vise is on the right end and when planing a board my left side is closest to the bench. With its weight, there is never a "hold my beer moment" when working with it. I have several add-ons which make common repetitive tasks easier to do as well as a cover to keep it clean when staining or gluing up work.
Have you made a miniature sovereign yet to place in the keel for good luck and fair weather sailing?
That makes sense Lawton. Are you using the traditional rectangular bench dogs or the new fangled round ones?
No, I won't be making a miniature sovereign to place under the main mast. I have an old farthing tucked away which I plan to use for that purpose.
Well I decided to go ahead and plane the taper now on the underside of the keel strip using the Jointer plane, and checking with a precision straight edge and square. I removed approx. 125" at the aft end of the strip and nothing at the bow end. This will allow the hull to sit a scale one foot lower at the stern, making it easier to keep the water lines level.
KeelStripInsta.jpg
Square ones which are made from hard maple scraps from the construction of the top. Safer for tool blades and fits into my waste not attitude. Holes were milled during the construction of the top prior to final glue up. Also as time has gone by I've had to replace the stops as between a cat who liked to assist me by knocking things onto the floor and a puppy who found one of them to be a delightful chew toy several went missing or were chewed up. My top has 2 rows of holes so that flat piece can be worked.
My side vise is in front of the top, not part of it as is yours. I also made an adjustable prop to hold the other end of wide stock when planing edges which was inspired by one used by the cabinetmakers at Colonial Williamsburg in their shop. Think of a miniature hall tree with a series of notches up one side that the prop engages. Once I get home form recovery of my broken hip I'll send a picture, if I remember.
Well most importantly Lawton, I hope you have a speedy recovery from the broken hip.
Concerning the bench dogs, like you, I milled the slots in the top prior to glue up for the rectangular dogs. My original set of Record steel dogs was not returned when the bench was recovered. A couple of years ago I finally found a set of rectangular dogs from Lee Valley (The circular dogs are evidently much more popular these days and readily available.). They are steel also but with removable brass faces. Like the former steel versions, you have to be very careful when setting up for planing so as not to run the plane into the dog, a very quick way to ruin a plane and iron.
Part of the reason that round ones are popular these days is that when manufacturing the top,there are fewer machining steps in the factory. All one does is make and mill a slab and then set up a multi-spindle boring machine and punch all of the holes at one time. You remember the time and effort it took to make yours. And, my dog holes are stepped which took at least 2 more steps in manufacture.
And back to the keel of the ship. Are you going to invite the wife of the Prime Minister to become the ship's sponsor and certify the keel when laid? I was at the ceremony when Mrs. Nixon certified the keel of the California and still remember watching as a welder tacked the plague to the first section. One of the very few benefits of working in the Yard at that time.
The round ones make perfect sense these days, quick and easy to bore the necessary holes. I made a router pattern matching the profile of my original dogs with the larger head than shank, then routed them out. It was fairly simple, but definitely more time consuming than just drilling holes. Fortunately, the Veritas bench dogs from Lee Valley are a dimensional match to my original Record dogs, so they fit perfectly.
Quote from: Lawton Maner on April 26, 2022, 01:50:46 PM
And back to the keel of the ship. Are you going to invite the wife of the Prime Minister to become the ship's sponsor and certify the keel when laid?
Uhhh...no.
Just finished the bow timber section of the keel. All the solid timber keel pieces are complete. Now it's time to finish milling the original Mantua plywood keel, remove the sections that will be replaced by the solid timber pieces, then assemble the new keel structure. You may notice that I added more pieces (stemson and apron) to the bow portion in order to replace the entire plywood bow section and make a stronger assembly. The original plywood keel is warped in that area and thus unusable.
VictoryKeelTimbers.jpg
The craftsmanship is satisfactory. -- Russ
Isn't it almost a waste to fit such a piece of art to a plywood keel... ::)
Just incredible work!!!
Quote from: Peter_T1958 on May 24, 2022, 10:38:10 PM
Isn't it almost a waste to fit such a piece of art to a plywood keel... ::)
Just incredible work!!!
Thank you Peter. In a sense, it does seem a shame to fit these pieces to the plywood structure. It would be even more satisfying to replace the plywood with prototypical frames and produce an admiralty board style model, a style I've always admired. However, given the fact that none of the plywood pieces will be visible in the hull when planked, plus the increased time, complexity, and cost (I would need additional machinery in order to do that with any efficiency), it doesn't make sense to replace the plywood since progress on the model is already slow given other projects and commitments which place demands on my time. So, for expediency purposes, I'm retaining the plywood components. These scratchbuilt pieces will be visible along with many other scratchbuilt components in the finished model, assuming of course, I make it that far. ;)
These scratchbuilt pieces will be visible along with many other scratchbuilt components in the finished model, assuming of course, I make it that far.
Aye, there's the rub. You have taken on a Herculean task.
Russ
Quote from: finescalerr on May 25, 2022, 11:16:35 AM
Aye, there's the rub. You have taken on a Herculean task.
Russ
Exactly... I see little point in making the task even bigger.
Paul, Are you aware of the Crabtree collection of miniature ship models at the Mariner's Museum & Park in Newport News, VA
https://www.marinersmuseum.org/crabtree-miniature-ships/
or the Law collection of miniature ship models at Mystic Seaport Museum in Mystic CT?
https://research.mysticseaport.org/coll/coll261/
Unfortunately neither link has photos and I didn't find a site that does, but Alexander G. Law's collection includes an HMS Victory. I don't know if the August F. and Winnifred Crabtree collection does too.
If you can find photos both modelers did fantastic work!
Thanks Bill... I am aware of both collections.
There is also the Henry Huddleston Rogers Collection of ship models at the US Naval Academy: https://www.usna.edu/Museum/collections/rogers/index.php (https://www.usna.edu/Museum/collections/rogers/index.php)
Fortunately, they published a hardcover catalogue, originally in the 1950s and later updated. I purchased my copy (1971 edition) in the 1970s. Two recent additional books on the collection by Grant Walker are available from SeaWatch Books https://seawatchbooks.com/ (https://seawatchbooks.com/). I haven't seen these books in person (far too expensive to add to my collection) but have heard good reports.
Just finished milling the frame slots in the original Mantua plywood keel. Bottoms of the slots were squared up with chisels. The screw holes in the plywood keel were used to mount it to the sacrificial MDF table in the milling machine. Photo shows all the major components for the keel. Now it's time to cut down the plywood keel to accommodate and join the scratchbuilt solid-timber keel, sternpost, and bow timber assembly.
KeelComponents.jpg
Ray -
I am loving your YouTube series! You are such a careful and dedicated craftsman.
I learn something every time I watch, or am reminded of something I've forgotten.
One question... Why "Whisky Workbench"? Shouldn't it be "Whiskey"?
One more... Why use that name at all? Is there some hidden significance?
OK, that's all for now. Keep uop the inspiring work,
Carlo
Thank you for the compliment Carlo. I'm pleased that you're finding the videos informative. That is the purpose of the channel. Making the videos is an added challenge that I'm not yet fully comfortable with, but have learned a lot in the past few months. There's a challenge to make them helpful and engaging without becoming too pedantic and boring.
The name Whisky Workbench was suggested by a good friend. We wanted a name that would have a bit of a catch to it as well as one that wasn't limited to a single topic. I do a lot of different work in the workshop: ship modelling, model railroad related projects, clock and watch restoration and repair, general woodworking, and 3D CGI rendering/animation. The general name gives me the freedom to do videos on any one of these disciplines. And yes, there's often a glass of whisky close by when I finish working. According to my wife, she who must be obeyed, I'm much easier to live with if I imbibe on occasion. The "Whisky" spelling is the British and hence Canadian spelling, a nod to my heritage and preferred whisky, Scotch, though due to economics, there is more often a bottle of Jack Daniels in the cabinet. "Whiskey" is the U.S. and Irish spelling.
Paul, thanks for showing and explaining in any case I have now subscribed to "Whisky Workbench".
I also liked whisky better like "whiskey" even if I haven't drunk something like that for years.
Paul:
If you are going to drink whiskey (note American spelling) treat your taste buds to a good one. My first choice is Makers Mark (no commercial relationship). My first choice in whisky is Lagavulin. Life is too short to drink cheap booze. Both are best straight or shared with close friends. Your wife is smart, end your day with a "wee drop" and your relationship will last a long time. I prefer a brandy sniffer for both because the nose is part of the experience. Cheers!
Quote from: Design-HSB on June 07, 2022, 07:01:24 AM
Paul, thanks for showing and explaining in any case I have now subscribed to "Whisky Workbench".
I also liked whisky better like "whiskey" even if I haven't drunk something like that for years.
Thank you for subscribing Helmut. It's gratifying to me that a modeller of your skills and abilities would subscribe to the channel.
Quote from: Lawton Maner on June 07, 2022, 08:00:04 AM
Paul:
If you are going to drink whiskey (note American spelling) treat your taste buds to a good one. My first choice is Makers Mark (no commercial relationship). My first choice in whisky is Lagavulin. Life is too short to drink cheap booze. Both are best straight or shared with close friends. Your wife is smart, end your day with a "wee drop" and your relationship will last a long time. I prefer a brandy sniffer for both because the nose is part of the experience. Cheers!
I agree with you Lawton. In fact my cabinet currently is stocked with Makers Mark Bourbon and Balvenie single malt Scotch. JD is my journeyman's drink, certainly not the best whisky, but it is within the realm of affordability here, at least for pensioners like us. All alcohol sales here are controlled by the provincial government and it is in no way cheap. Sticker shock at the LCBO is a regular occurrence, especially when, like us, you're used to alcohol prices in California. A case of regular production beer, i.e. Budweiser, will set you back $50.00. I don't drink beer, because at my age, you're only renting it. A 1140ml (1.2 qts) bottle of JD costs $49.35; a 1140ml bottle of Makers Mark is $62.00; a 750ml bottle of 12-year old Balvenie is $120.00 (a relatively inexpensive bottle of single malt Scotch); a 750ml bottle of 12-year-old Lagavulin is $200.10. If you're really flush, a 750ml bottle of 26-year-old Lagavulin will set you back $2995.00! Single malt Scotch has always been my preferred whisky and I've had many, many different bottles over the years. I never met one I didn't like, some are just more memorable than others... ;)
It is clear we should establish a new "department" on this website about modeling tonics. I suspect, however, that the more we sample each other's favorite, the sooner the posts will descend into meaningless drivel. -- ssuR
*hic*
Uh, -- Russ
*hic* ... Like this one.
Quote from: finescalerr on June 07, 2022, 10:50:52 AM
It is clear we should establish a new "department" on this website about modeling tonics. I suspect, however, that the more we sample each other's favorite, the sooner the posts will descend into meaningless drivel. -- ssuR
*hic*
Uh, -- Russ
*hic* ... Like this one.
An excellent idea... of course, discussing the merits of good cheap whisky or other tonic is like discussing a good Barry Manilow album. You have to make certain allowances.
"All bourbon is whiskey, but not all whiskey is bourbon."
Having been born and raised is the global epicenter of bourbon production, I have to weigh in here. I see a close affinity between enjoying whiskey and model making. Both pursuits are about the experience, about placing value on each action, each choice, and each moment. Drinking whiskey is about paying attention; what do you smell, what do you taste, how does it feel? And making models - certainly to the level exhibited here - is also about paying attention. Paying attention to texture and color, proportion and dimension.
I can't imagine living a life of meaning without bourbon being part of it. (Bourbon being the greatest of the whisk(e)ys, with a respectful tip of the hat to our cousins in the old country!) The challenge with whiskey, as with model making, is controlling the urge to make it an obsession. Case in point is the absolutely incredible price inflation in the bourbon market. Bottles I used to be able to walk into any store and purchase for $35 to $50 are now being sold through lotteries for hundreds of dollars per bottle. It's insane.
I've managed my obsession by building a bourbon shelf that limits my inventory to about 50 bottles. Once the shelf is full, I can't buy any more until some of the bottles are emptied! I try to keep about ten bottles open at any time so I can choose a bourbon that matches my mood. Such good stuff!
Eric, from what you have written I suspect your interest in fine bourbon could be why you haven't posted a photo of a new model for the past few years. -- Russ
There can be no such thing as an over indulgence in model building unless you get to the point where sleeping and eating become an interference. A mild indulgence in good whisky/whiskey isn't an over the top problem, just keep it in moderation and do not mix it with modeling. I am fortunate to live close to Washington, D.C. where there are no price controls on booze sales. And, when traveling back and forth on work weekends at the East Broad Top have been known to restock the pantry.
Since Summer is coming up fast, I now need to find a gin which is of the came quality as my choices in whisky and whiskey. The English invention of the Gin and Tonic is a refreshing summer medical treatment for malaria, scurvy, and depression and is a great treat after mowing the lawn on a summer's afternoon.
You are absolutely right Lawton. Moderation and balance are key in all things. I can't make a Gin recommendation for you. Gin is a banned substance in our house. Years ago and before we met, my wife, under the influence of Gin, was tossed out of Harry's Bar in Pismo Beach for decking and knocking out some dumbass who made an ill-advised and highly inappropriate remark. So, in the spirit of self-preservation, Gin is banned.
How do you survive summer heat?
Banning gin just because your wife served a dinner of whip ass to some idiot doesn't seem enough to ban it. It does serve as a warning for you to behave though.
A woman who lived on the 4th floor of my dorm in 1974 always used the remark that she had an unidentified infection when she got inappropriate suggestions. Then the fact that 85% of the male population of the dorm were Vietnam veterans who provided cover to the women who lived beside of us. And, the occasional cowboy who woke up in a nearby gutter meant that the locals behaved themselves. We mostly treated these women as our younger sisters and got along well with them.
BTW:
For those who like whiskey with a kick, there is a single barrel Maker's Mark which is small batch and comes from 1 barrel and isn't cut before bottling. My current bottle is 111.6 proof. Not something for the faint of heart. A small shot at bedtime helps me sleep.
Quote from: Lawton Maner on June 08, 2022, 06:34:24 PM
How do you survive summer heat?
Banning gin just because your wife served a dinner of whip ass to some idiot doesn't seem enough to ban it. It does serve as a warning for you to behave though.
We are very fortunate to have geothermal central air in the house. Having lived in California we are used to high heat, but we can't tolerate the combination of high heat and high humidity that characterizes summer here, so the AC is a valuable asset. As far as summer drinks go, I don't mind the gin ban, it's never been one of my preferred spirits. We do like to indulge in a sampling of craft-brewed ciders on the very rare occasions when it is comfortable enough (moderate temp, lower humidity, not raining, not quite a plague of bugs, neighbours not spreading manure) to sit outside and enjoy watching our neighbours with their horses and buggies go by, the slow pace of the traditional life around us.
If you are modeling a ship, your preferred drink for the duration of construction must become GROG. -- Russ
Just what I always dream about drinking, diluted cheap rum! If I drink rum it has to be a Cuba Libre.
It's been a long time since I've posted an update on this project. Took July off from the model bench to build a vendor display (in Maple and Purpleheart) for my sister's embroidery business. Because of its size, that project took over the entire workshop. Our two remaining Ash trees were felled last month, so I've been spending a lot of time flailing about with a chainsaw, schlepping logs, and splitting firewood... it never ends.
Concerning the Victory, the solid wood Bow Timbers are now glued up to the modified Mantua plywood keel and the joint has been cut in the solid wood Keel/Sternpost assembly, ready to be glued and treenailed in place.
KeelTimbersAssyWIP.jpg
Construction is just whizzing right along. -- Russ
Nice! It's amazing to me how many separate pieces of wood went into making that bow timber.
Quote from: finescalerr on August 04, 2022, 04:16:28 PMConstruction is just whizzing right along. -- Russ
Isn't it though. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm actually looking forward to winter when all the outdoor work and construction will slow, freeing up more time for the workshop.
Quote from: Ray Dunakin on August 04, 2022, 11:13:48 PMNice! It's amazing to me how many separate pieces of wood went into making that bow timber.
Thanks Ray. There's a lot of complex miniature joinery in that assembly.
After months of intermittent work on the keel, attention can now be turned to the Victory frames. First photo shows the full keel assembly with the solid timber keel, sternpost and bow timbers married to the modified Mantua plywood keel.
KeelAssembled.jpg
Second photo is a detail shot of the forward section showing the Boxwood treenails used to reinforce the solid timber keel to plywood joint. There are also three brass "treenails" (not visible) reinforcing the joint between the bow timbers and the plywood. These pins come in from the top of the plywood keel and pass into the bow timbers. Near the upper right of the photo you can see one of the two threaded brass inserts in the keel which provide the option of mounting the hull to machined support pillars as opposed to a cradle.
KeelAssembledDetail.jpg
You have made a silk purse from a sow's ear. Acceptable. -- Russ
Paul - I've been following on YouTube.
I love your patient and meticulous approach to building.
I wish I could do more of that; I tend to rush things sometimes.
Carlo
Quote from: finescalerr on September 01, 2022, 12:10:28 AMYou have made a silk purse from a sow's ear. Acceptable. -- Russ
Thanks Russ!
Quote from: Carlo on September 01, 2022, 05:39:15 AMPaul - I've been following on YouTube.
I love your patient and meticulous approach to building.
I wish I could do more of that; I tend to rush things sometimes.
Carlo
Thanks Carlo. Lately it hasn't always been a matter of patience. The past few months it's been more of an available time issue for me and, as a result, the temptation is always there to rush through a process. Past experience has taught me that rushing, in any discipline, will always result in an unacceptable outcome.
Fun fact:
Facebook has a group for those building HMS Victory models. Over 4000 members.
In contrast, groups interested in modelling NZ railways (my interest) have well less than 1000 members.
While I don't read very much into anything observed on Facebook, building Victory seems positively mainstream! Of course, it isn't the subject that it is as important as the skill of the modeller and quality of the outcome.
Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on December 14, 2022, 12:23:07 PMFun fact:
Facebook has a group for those building HMS Victory models. Over 4000 members.
Yes, Lawrence, there are actually a couple of them. I belong to the HMS Victory Modellers Group which now has 6500 members. It's run by a fellow modeller here in Canada. With the application of laser cutting, CNC milling, and 3D printing, which account for the vast majority of wood kits on the market today, ship modelling has progressed from a niche discipline for skilled modelbuilders to the open market, and become very popular. Quality varies widely, but some contemporary kits in the hands of a builder with some experience, can produce a very respectable end result. Several scratch builders I'm familiar with are using CNC for milling their model's components and producing astounding work.
Finally have an update on the Victory project. Now that treatments are finished, I've been able to make some time for the workbench while work progresses on the watch animation, which will continue to take most of my time for the next few months. It certainly feels good to be back at the workbench, I've missed it.
I've cut out all of the frames on the scroll saw and milled/pared the slots in the frames where they attach to the keel. Photo shows them lined up temporarily on the keel on the build board. The holes in the frames were bored with a Forstner bit as access holes for cutting out the waste material in the deck regions. The large hole makes it easier to set up cutting angles in the scroll saw. In the foreground is the "T" reinforcement stringer that runs the length of the hull from the furthest forward frame to the aft-most frame.
KeelWFramesInsta.jpg
Currently I'm milling openings in the lower portion of the frames to accept the "T" stringer. The photo shows the milling setup. I made an MDF sacrificial table onto which I scribed a centre line with the mill, then milled a small slot along that centre line to accept a piece of scrap keel stock as a locator. The frame is slid into place on the keel locator, then centre line alignment confirmed before clamping the frame to the table and milling the "T" slots. In this way the "T" slots are aligned accurately with the keel slots. After milling, I square up the ends of the slots with a small chisel.
MillingTSlotsInsta.jpg
I'm referencing off the frame centre line for all milling operations, as the printed cut-out lines are less than accurate on most of the frames. That is particularly obvious in the third photo which shows the forward frame in position on the "T" stringer. The printed cut lines are considerably off centre. I also reduced slightly the overall size of the stringer by truing up the stock supplied in the kit and assembling the stringer with a machined rabbet in the top piece for added accuracy and strength.
FrameTStringer.jpg
That's it for now. Once all the "T" slots are milled, it will be time to cut out the waste material in the deck areas with the scroll saw and hand-held jewellers saw.
Beautiful. And it's good that you finally found some time to work on the ship. -- Russ
Nice!
Thanks Russ and Ray. Yes, it is good to be back at the workbench working on the Victory.
Now cruising along milling the T-slots in the rest of the frames. I added a second dial indicator providing dial readout on both axes, increasing efficiency and accuracy. In photo, the vertical slot has been milled, cutter is at the zero point ready to mill the horizontal slot.
MillingTSlots.jpg
I sure hope you are able to finish that model. If you continue to improve the kit, it probably will surpass most ship models I've seen. -- Russ
Quote from: finescalerr on December 20, 2022, 12:32:49 PMI sure hope you are able to finish that model. If you continue to improve the kit, it probably will surpass most ship models I've seen. -- Russ
Thank you Russ. Finishing it is the plan and I'm pressing on with whatever time I have available to do so. Whether it surpasses other ship models is not my concern. I'm just trying to demonstrate that traditional tools and methods are still relevant, important, and worth saving in this age of technology-fueled convenience.
Its A Complete mind blowing job - with total miniature wood engineering And a massive improvement of the kit ! Fantastic buts its way beyond me
Barney
Quote from: Barney on December 27, 2022, 01:28:53 PMIts A Complete mind blowing job - with total miniature wood engineering And a massive improvement of the kit ! Fantastic buts its way beyond me
Barney
Thanks Barney... it's a challenge, that's for certain.
After milling and paring out the T-slots in all the frames I did a test assembly of the frames, T-stringer, and keel. Be a bit of a tricky process when it comes to glue-up, but as it is, it's a strong, rigid assembly without the glue. Next step is to finish flattening a couple of warped frames, then cut out the waste areas between the deck beams on all of the frames.
FrameStringerKeelAssy.jpg
KeelDryAssy.jpg
It looks strong and unlikely to warp. Satisfactory. -- Russ
Cutting the deck profiles will be a lot of work.
Good luck with it, and keep lots of blades handy,
Carlo
Looks nice and sturdy.
Thanks Russ, Ray, and Carlo. It is a rigid assembly as it sits, which pleases me. Once glued up it should be quite robust which it needs to be for fairing
Quote from: Carlo on January 19, 2023, 01:25:10 PMCutting the deck profiles will be a lot of work.
Good luck with it, and keep lots of blades handy,
Carlo
I've stocked up Carlo. I plan to cut the long sweeping horizontal edges on the scroll saw, then cut the more complex side edges with a jewellers saw.
Fascinating XY table you created to mill the parts for the hull frames!
Bulk of scroll saw work completed on the frames. What's left to cut are the half-lap joints on the hanging knees that support the deck beams. Decided to cut and mill all the deck beams from solid timber. Presently building a pivoting table for the scroll saw which will allow me to cut the beams to a consistent radius and depth. Radius of the beams does increase slightly as you move up through the decks, but at 1:98 scale, the change is so small it would be unnoticeable, so all beams will be cut to the same radius. Once the curved beams are cut, I'll mill the grooves for deck stringers and the half-lap joints on the beams, then cut the half-lap joints on the frames to fit the beams. After that, the frames can be permanently installed to the keel and stringer, then beam and decking installation can begin from the lowest deck and progress up through the five decks... a ways to go before that can happen.
FramesCut.jpg
Like a blooming flower. Satisfactory. -- Russ