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General Category => Painting & Weathering Techniques => Topic started by: Greg Hile on February 26, 2018, 07:06:49 PM



Title: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Greg Hile on February 26, 2018, 07:06:49 PM
I have been reviewing several past threads here on weathering wood and rather than reviving one of the old ones, I thought I would start a new one. Because BIS SilverWood is so difficult to get, I started playing with possible alternatives. In the picture below, there are three components of the freight deck for my C & AV train depot.

For the deck in the background, I simply applied about a 90/10 wash of 91% isopropyl alcohol and India ink.

The middle deck has the wash plus an equal full-strength mixture of Tru-Color flat brushable Grimy Black, Brown Oxide, and Aluminum.

The deck in the foreground is the same as the middle deck but with the addition of some streaks of a fourth color, Light Gray. 

The decks were scribed but I haven't added any nail holes, knots, or other weathering. Still just experimenting, but any thoughts?


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: detail_stymied on February 26, 2018, 08:05:56 PM
I think the ultimate solution (!) lies in the amount used. for myself, I get by with a 4 ounce bottle of Rustall Weatherall about every two years. it's 8 bucks, easy to get and use, and I can't find anything wrong with its result on basswood or hobby thin plywood (birch?). I've used it on Simpson redwood ties.

if I needed museum quality, more frequent use, or exponential quantity, I might seek a different resolve. but it's so easy to shake it a bit, dip in a wash brush, slather it on, put the cap back on and set the bottle back on the paint shelf.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: finescalerr on February 26, 2018, 11:18:23 PM
Just a thought about wood in general: We modelers tend to use bass, a wood with minimal figuring and very little grain. It's soft so we can distress it and it takes stains and powdered colors well. Only one problem: It has no distinguishing characteristic; it's generic wood. It rarely looks like the weathered, unpainted wood we see on old structures.

I have seen gorgeous examples of distressed and weathered basswood but none looks like knotty pine, cedar, walnut, or spruce. Am I the only modeler in the world who notices or cares? Look at the example I've attached and tell me how many models you've seen that closely emulate that weathered wood.

And then we have the problem of yellowing, so that a stick of bass we stain with India ink and alcohol looks silver-gray for a couple of years, then yellows and that turns the overall color brown. Maybe staining the wood with paint would help but it depends on how much you dilute the paint.

I guess the question, then, is whether wood is always the best way to represent wood. It partly depends on the scale of the model, of course, but not entirely.

Have I ruined everybody's day?

Russ


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: detail_stymied on February 27, 2018, 03:33:41 AM
....Have I ruined everybody's day?...

nope. that only will come when we have another "should I poke holes to represent nail heads in my $400 craftsman kit siding?" thread.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Bill Gill on February 27, 2018, 07:00:44 AM
Check out the fabulous weathering  Ray Dunakin does  to make styrene look like the weathered wood in Russ's photo:
(There's a lot more than this someplace(s) on the forums, but I can't find them right now:)

 7  General Category / Painting & Weathering Techniques / Re: Peeling/worn paint on wood?
on: May 04, 2009, 07:31:44 PM
 Message by Ray Dunakin

Thanks guys!

I used Apple Barrel flat acrylic paints. After scribing the grain and other details into the styrene, I applied the paints in multiple layers of thin washes. First I did a couple layers of "Nutmeg Brown", which is a warm, medium shade of brown. Then I added some washes of "Apricot", a sort of orange color, then a little more "Nutmeg Brown". Then I added some "Espresso", a darker, redder brown. This was applied in streaks, adding more to some areas and none to other areas. Finally, some very thin black was added, again applying more in some areas as needed.

Here's a pic showing how it looked:


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Greg Hile on February 27, 2018, 09:08:12 AM
Yes, I saw Rayís post and it is typical Dunakin brilliance. I am going to try it but I also wanted to try the silverwood alternative on wood.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: finescalerr on February 27, 2018, 03:03:44 PM
I published Ray's article about distressing and painting styrene to emulate weathered wood in the final (2013) Modelers' Annual. I studied Ray's photos very carefully and his artistry is almost incredible. He actually replicated the appearance of many individual boards on the shack he used as the basis for his model. Maybe somebody else has done similar work but I can't recall seeing it.

Those of us with less talent, like me, could use photos. Photograph a wall; print the photo on dead flat art paper; cut out the individual boards; emboss the strips to add depth and grain; laminate them onto card, wood, or styrene; stain the white edges; and build up the model.

I imagine other techniques exist. If anyone knows of one or has used a less conventional method to produce excellent results, this might be a good thread to show alternatives to the the traditional India ink and alcohol wood stain.

Russ


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Greg Hile on February 27, 2018, 03:24:54 PM
Iím also wondering about the differences between a busy freight dock versus a wall. I would assume the condition of wood that is continually walked on would weather differently from the sides. Same with stairs ...


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Bill Gill on February 28, 2018, 07:29:28 AM
There will also be quite a bit of difference in appearance depending on the kind of wood, its orientation toward the sun and wind and exposure/contact with rain, snow, saltwater, stuff moving across it and more as well as what if any treatment(s) it had applied over its lifetime.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: darrylhuffman on July 01, 2018, 07:42:13 PM
Russ,

The example you used for great looking wood is from the Gold Cord Mine in Alaska.

Each side of the building looks great.

Oddly, some of those walls were painted silver to begin with and had trim work that was painted turquoise.

Darryl


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: finescalerr on July 01, 2018, 09:42:50 PM
I think you may have sent those photos to me, Darryl, or maybe referred me to a site that had them. -- Russ


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: darrylhuffman on July 01, 2018, 10:20:01 PM
Russ,

About 40 years ago my wife and I photographed and measured the Gold Cord Mine.

Dozens of photos.

An HO scale model is now on display in the Wasilla museum in Wasilla, Alaska.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: TRAINS1941 on August 06, 2018, 09:45:51 AM
Looks like the weathered wood on Nick's house!!  :)

Jerry


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Barney on August 09, 2018, 03:06:10 PM
So whats the answer to this wood staining - Im not a favourite of this alcohol and indian ink it appears to lay on top of the wood and not stain it - on the ends of timbers it just goes black and leaves a stain on the sides - what is it that gave the Floquil paints the answer - just a small touch on the end of a timber sent it down the grain with no problem - is there a product available with the same type of solvent - the "Weather all" product appears has disappeared from the UK market or does any one know of a suppler in the UK - and the Floquil suppler no longer does it
The painting of wood presents no problem - so I think its time to ditch the wood and use styrene !! I think its get a copy of Rays excellent article on wood colouring.
Barney
in a upside down world   


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: shropshire lad on August 10, 2018, 12:50:32 AM
So whats the answer to this wood staining - Im not a favourite of this alcohol and indian ink it appears to lay on top of the wood and not stain it - on the ends of timbers it just goes black and leaves a stain on the sides - what is it that gave the Floquil paints the answer - just a small touch on the end of a timber sent it down the grain with no problem - is there a product available with the same type of solvent - the "Weather all" product appears has disappeared from the UK market or does any one know of a suppler in the UK - and the Floquil suppler no longer does it
The painting of wood presents no problem - so I think its time to ditch the wood and use styrene !! I think its get a copy of Rays excellent article on wood colouring.
Barney
in a upside down world   


 Chuck doesn't use styrene .


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: finescalerr on August 10, 2018, 12:30:21 PM
Thinned oil paints should work and maybe some acrylics. Chuck used SilverWood stain and "powdered pastels" (actually, a specific brand of weathering powders) in his seminal article from a few years ago. SilverWood has been around for decades and works very well. Builders-In-Scale in Washington state offers it; I bought a new bottle last April. http://www.builders-in-scale.com/bis/parts-weather.html (http://www.builders-in-scale.com/bis/parts-weather.html) It's a very small, mom and pop outfit so who knows how much longer they'll survive? Anyway, if you want to try any of that before toddling off to styrene, I hope the information will be of use. -- Russ


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Bill Gill on August 10, 2018, 12:43:48 PM
I'm going to find some suitable samples of various woods and put them outside for several months to see what happens. Has anyone else done this?

I collected small weathered twigs from a beach to use as driftwood against the abutment of a bridge on my HO layout. The naturally "silvered" wood looked perfect! Unfortunately nearly microscopic little critters eventually gnawed that thin surface layer away leaving what looked like newly cut wood except part of the log at the bottom, closest to the camera.



Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Ed Keen on August 10, 2018, 03:21:31 PM
Barney,
I found if you soak it for days in will penetrate and look real. Plus the wood used has different effects.
And the color is richer if allowed to soak longer. Mike Chambers, one of the best has some great mixtures.
All look quite realistic. In my humble opinion.
Check out RobertG and others on the Sierra West site for some outstanding modeling.
ed keen


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Ed Keen on August 11, 2018, 01:43:50 PM
Nice article in The Modellers' Annual by Gordon Birrell. On page 67. Titled, A weathered finish without paint.
Others in the same issue.
ed keen


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Lawton Maner on October 24, 2018, 01:55:01 PM
Any time you bring something into the model shop from outside to be used in production it should be passed through either a microwave oven or the regular one to cook out its inhabitants before use.  Sticks get nuked and soil products get baked.

Additionally, cooking planting soil in one of those plastic roasting bags for about an hour steams the material and sterilizes it prior to planting anything in it.  By using the heat resistant bag, the moisture stays with the soil and helps kill the nasties.  Let cool to room temp before opening to avoid being scalded.

Do not do this when SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) is at home and air the kitchen out afterwards.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Greg Hile on October 30, 2018, 12:16:57 AM
Do not do this when SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) is at home and air the kitchen out afterwards.

Good advice!


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Bill Gill on October 30, 2018, 07:06:24 AM
Yeah, good advice, but that "driftwood" was roasted. The critters appeared several years afterward. Perhaps a clear flat finish would have afforded some protection, but I worried it would have changed the great natural silvery look of the wood.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Lawton Maner on November 02, 2018, 12:49:46 PM
Maybe they liked the taste of the marinade you basted the sticks with. ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Eric Green on February 07, 2019, 09:03:10 AM
I use pickle mixture and colored pencils.  I think it is super quick and easy with decent results.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Bill Gill on February 07, 2019, 11:45:29 AM
Eric, looks good. What is your specific pickle mixture formula?


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Lawton Maner on February 08, 2019, 04:30:14 AM
If you are starting with sweet pickle juice, of course the critters would love it.   ::) ::) ::)


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Eric Green on February 08, 2019, 08:54:16 AM
Mr. Pickle Mix is white vinegar and fine steel wool.  Each 24 hours that the wool stays in the mix, it browns and gets stronger.  I mist on MANY 24 hour coats.  Your can do hundreds of strip wood sticks in minutes.  Really soak them, then move them.  It takes hours for the chemical reaction to take place, but it is very convincing weathered wood.  It raises the grain so when the color pencil is added, by using the side of a sharp pencil, magic takes place.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Eric Green on February 08, 2019, 08:58:11 AM
Another.  Everything I model is 1/48th scale.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Eric Green on February 08, 2019, 09:00:14 AM
Pickle mix on gray plastic with a black acrylic wash.  1/48th.


Title: Re: Weathering Wood Redux
Post by: Lawton Maner on February 08, 2019, 02:27:07 PM
If you need assistance in darkening the wood, just dip it in a very strong solution of tea.  The vinegar and iron mixture turns into a solution of ferrous acetate and the iron in that reacts to the tannin in the wood.  The woods modelers normally use are very low in tannin and need a boost. to darken the wood.  BTW, it is best to strain the mixture before using it to get the lumps out.   Wear gloves and old clothes as it can leave iron stains on your hands and clothes which will need to wear off.

40+ years ago Railroad Model Craftsman did an article called sweet and sour finishing.  My most recent batch is made from swarf from a machine center in the shop at the East Broad Top.  When making this brew do not close the container tightly, keep it away from a source of ignition because the chemical reaction out gasses hydrogen, and store it in a plastic container.  If you use steel wool as your source of iron wash it with a good dish soap first to remove any oil left in the steel wool from the manufacturing process.