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General Category => Modellers At Work => Topic started by: Hydrostat on February 16, 2014, 02:25:25 PM



Title: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on February 16, 2014, 02:25:25 PM
Apart from trackage certainly rolling stock belongs to the Plettenberger Kleinbahn topic, especially the typical Rollwagen, which served to carry standard gauge cars on the narrow gauge line.

The prototype was made by a small engineering company Boecker & Volkenborn from Hohenlimburg. If you're interested in technical details and willing to use google translate, please read here at buntbahn: http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?t=11487 (http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?t=11487).

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8928/5715B_V_WW_01.jpg)
Sammlung Wolf Dietrich Groote

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8928/57152013-06-28_12_06_28.JPG)
Sammlung Wolf Dietrich Groote

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8928/5715FAG_HKB-WW41_Slg_Gerhard_Moll.jpg)
Sammlung Gerhard Moll

Some of those wagons have been delivered to Plettenberg, the last ones around 1959. By chance we got the opportunity to search the then still existing archive of the company for drawings of the wagons which came insolvent some ten years ago. This was looking for a needle in a haystack for there were more than 40.000 drawings to be searched - without any catalogue or index.
  
The few reference points were some drawings' numbers from the former Hohenlimburger Kleinbahn's archive. Three times we went there and we were able to find out drawings of five consignments - and save them from ruin. Unfortunately the complete drawings' stock has been wasted meanwhile for no museum or industrial archive was willing to take it.

Fortunately we found a complete set of drawings for one riveted Rollwagen, which was delivered to the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1927. I don't want to keep this pic of our search from you:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8928/5715IMG_5514.JPG)

It surely would be easily possible to build this wagon as a model, but I'm more interested in one of the last to PKB delivered, welded cars. Unfortunately we didn't manage to find drawings of the 8.7 m long cars, which are recognizable on some pictures - like this one of a little mishap:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8928/5715B_V_Unfall.jpg)
Sammlung Albrecht Kühne

Maybe a metalworking shop in Plettenberg and the Kleinbahn itself built those cars using some parts of Boecker & Volkenborn. They got numbers 26 and 28. Perhaps the full order books may have helped, but it was a too high health risk to check them.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8928/5715IMG_5517.JPG)

So I had to develop the welded car from the pictures and some features of the older drawings. My claim is the consequent implementation to scale - including wheelsets and some special construction characteristics.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715PKB_Rollwagen_WW_28_final1.jpg)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715PKB_Rollwagen_WW_28_final2.jpg)

Meanwhile the first parts arrived. The solebars are milled from tool steel. All milled parts are made by friends, based on my drawings.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7092b.JPG)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7090b.JPG)

The etched brass number plate is soldered to a notch in the solebar.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7089b.JPG)

Some more parts like a seat, covers and mudguards are etched, too.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7100b.JPG)

The webs of the front-end crossbeams fit to special grooves.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7093b.JPG)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7096b.JPG)

Those are the upper and lower parts of the crossbeams. The buffer duct is going to be a cast brass part.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7102b.JPG)

Some parts for the bogies.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7098b.JPG)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7103b.JPG)

Ball joint for the pivot allowing vertical movement.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7104b.JPG)

Wheel chock holes for the loaded standard gauge wagons.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7110b.JPG)

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on February 16, 2014, 02:34:37 PM
Most satisfactory, from the research to the components. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: artizen on February 16, 2014, 03:53:01 PM
Beautiful work. Shame about the disregard for the history in those files though. I guess the room was very damp?


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Chuck Doan on February 16, 2014, 08:11:53 PM
Beautiful work for sure!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 16, 2014, 08:13:24 PM
Incredible work, as usual!

Those cars are a very interesting solution to the problem of transporting standard gauge cars over narrow gauge tracks.

What is that white stuff on the file drawers -- mold, or some kind of mineral/chemical deposit?


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on February 17, 2014, 03:40:37 AM
Most satisfactory, from the research to the components. -- Russ

Thanks, Russ. I'm glad I'd clear the bar.

Beautiful work for sure!

Thanks, Chuck.

Beautiful work. Shame about the disregard for the history in those files though. I guess the room was very damp?

Incredible work, as usual!
Those cars are a very interesting solution to the problem of transporting standard gauge cars over narrow gauge tracks.
What is that white stuff on the file drawers -- mold, or some kind of mineral/chemical deposit?

Thanks, Ian and Ray. It is mold and it's the result of a water damage that flooded the complete flooring for a few months. Yes, it is a shame that no one was interested and / or able to keep this stuff. But this is how time passes by. Mankind is not able to preserve everything. Unfortunately there's always something like changing fashions in peoples' minds about what was worth to be preserved and what not. I would give something to be able again to visit places like the abandoned, but still complete factorys or mines or brickworks of my youth. But everything has to go by in our country for it's 'to dangerous' or landscape has to be 'reinstalled'. Imagine they'd do that with the river Rhine castles.

Okay, back to modeling. It can be some kind of preserving, too.

Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on May 20, 2014, 02:27:57 PM
The first brass castings arrived:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7648b.jpg)

Brake wheel:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7649b.jpg)

Part of wheel chock:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7650b.jpg)

coupler plunger:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7651b.jpg)

Some words about the chosen process: The master forms were printed with a ceramic filled synthetic material by the same provider who made the white metal castings of my phone and lamp. We wanted to find out if it was possible to use those masterforms for the lost wax process - with one difference: Printing in wax and melting this print out to achieve a cast brass master form, which is cast in silicone or rubber means to have two steps loosing detail. I wanted to see if it was possible to make the rubber mold directly from the printed master form, which has to be mechanical and temperature stable enough for the process. Very fine master parts like the brake wheel will be destroyed during removing the mold, but the results are okay. We tried some H0 scale test pieces beforehand. 

Printed parts:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7291b_1.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7293b_1.JPG)

Mold:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7297b_1.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7298b_1.JPG)

Castings:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7295b_1.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7296b_1.JPG)


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on May 21, 2014, 02:14:53 AM
The castings are very clean. The process seems to have worked very well. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on June 20, 2014, 01:29:23 PM
Hi,

there was some little progress with the coupler parts. They needed M2 threads which I cut manually. That was difficult because the cast material is a bit soft and tends to distort.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7655b.jpg)


A model nut with splint was added.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7725b.jpg)


Helmut tried to drill the 0.5 mm holes in nut and coupler via CNC but he broke a lot of drill bits. The jig he used didn't result in centric holes because the threads are always a bit out of axis.

So I marked the nuts and drilled couplers and nuts separately and manually. I fixed the nuts with CA on the coupler and drilled from both sides to the coupler surface. By heating the assembly the CA vaporizes and the nut can be removed. Then I drilled the coupler. That worked somewhat better, but it took one drill for three holes ...

Not so with the splints: Again Helmut had an ingenious idea. He milled two 0.25 mm deep grooves into a brass plate and added two 0.5 mm holes at their ends.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7716b.jpg)


There one can insert a prebent 0.5 mm brass wire ...


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7718b.jpg)


... which then fits after some hammering on the back of the jig.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7719b.jpg)


Then the wires can easily be sanded down to the plate's surface ...


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7720b.jpg)


... and look like that afterwards:


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7723b.jpg)


You then have to bend the wire around a broken 0.5 mm drill in the vice (I've got some now >:().


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7729b.jpg)


Then press the wire with spiky pliers around the shaft and shorten them with a flat side cutter -


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7730b.jpg)


and one can mount the finished splint.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7733b.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7739b.jpg)


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: artizen on June 20, 2014, 03:49:34 PM
I love this stuff!

Keep giving us more delicious modelling to drool over!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on June 21, 2014, 01:41:27 AM
The two of you are in the top tier of railroad modelers. Adequate. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: 5thwheel on June 21, 2014, 09:47:43 AM
Volker.  I became lost on the part about casting the brass.  Is the brass cast in a spin machine like white metal or is the brass actually a compound looking like brass?  I used too do white metal casting. The mold looks like white metal mold material. 


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Ray Dunakin on June 21, 2014, 12:26:52 PM
Truly mind-boggling work!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on June 22, 2014, 02:25:59 AM
Ian, Russ, Ray and Bill, thanks for your posts.

Volker.  I became lost on the part about casting the brass.  Is the brass cast in a spin machine like white metal or is the brass actually a compound looking like brass?  I used too do white metal casting. The mold looks like white metal mold material. 

Bill, it is brass. The rubber mold is used to make the wax parts for the lost wax process. The resulting investment material mold is used for the brass casting with a spin machine. If 3D prototyping is used usually the parts are printed in wax, then cast with brass in the lost wax process and this brass casting is the prototype to make the rubber or silicone mold for the wax parts. I wanted it the direct way with the 3D printed part as prototype for the wax part mold. Please feel free to ask, if my explanation wasn't understandable. Or my English :(.

Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: 5thwheel on June 22, 2014, 08:09:51 AM
Thanks Volker. Now it is more clear to me.  You are pushing the outer limits of model making. Really nice work. I follow your posting when ever I can.

Bill H


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on June 22, 2014, 10:05:07 AM
Thanks Bill. I'm not sure if I'm pushing outer limits. Hard to imagine nobody had this idea before.

Volker 


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: nk on June 23, 2014, 02:20:42 PM
Volker, this is really wonderful work, with every detail being depicted as if you have some special Shrink-Ray gun. Thanks for sharing this is really good to see.
N


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on July 02, 2014, 05:36:34 AM
Volker, this is really wonderful work, with every detail being depicted as if you have some special Shrink-Ray gun. Thanks for sharing this is really good to see.
N

Narayan, I HAVE a special Shrink-Ray gun from my Klingon friends. So much about modeling. Unfortunately the prototypes often are a bit too coarse for my sense of taste.

There are some more parts. This is the axle bearing,

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7764b.jpg)

with the cast-on section on the seating,

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7761b.jpg)

and the upper and lower suspension parts of the binder pendulums; this is the upper one, which is seated sideways of the bogy:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7766b.jpg)

The ball cup in the bolt serves as bearing for the binder pendulum:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7765b.jpg)

This is the lower part, which is seated in the frame's crossbeam. It's still missing it's bolt with the ball cup. The wagon clings to the bogies.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7768b.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7769b.jpg)

Frithjof milled the binder pendulums. They'll get some additional rivet screws with half rounded heads as counterparts to the ball cups. Thanks again for all, Frithjof - and for dedicating the following three pictures to me!

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Buegelpendel-fraesen-1.jpg)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Buegelpendel-fraesen-2.jpg)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Buegelpendel-fraesen-3.jpg)

I started soldering the bogies. The binder pendulums will be seated beneath the longitudinal opennings. The bogies will get a water jet cut core from brass, which carries the first shown cast part.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7775b.jpg)

The mudflaps and the square cover have 0.8 mm wrench width bolt imitations.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7777b.jpg)

I used resistance soldering aside of the square cover. I feel thet resistance soldering isn't suitable for bigger areas so I used the flame. At the second bogie it worked without warpage. 8)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7780b.jpg)


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on July 02, 2014, 11:30:58 AM
Satisfactory once again. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 02, 2014, 11:34:11 AM
Stunning work!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: lab-dad on July 03, 2014, 06:15:03 AM
WOW - as usual...
I am glad someone is finding time to model, and at this level holy moley!
I would kill for a few of those bearing journals in 1/16th!  ;D

-Marty


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on September 10, 2014, 03:41:58 AM
Thanks, Ray, Russ and Marty,

I would kill for a few of those bearing journals in 1/16th!  ;D
-Marty

please don't. It's not worth it. Maybe I can scale the file for your needs and upload it at shapeways and you may then get them from there as brass parts?

M1.2 screws with half round head had to be soldered into the binder pendulums which Frithjof milled for me. The 2.0 mm diameter head isn't completely half round. Frithjof, Helmut and me discussed this a lot but we didn't find an easier and affordable solution. Originally I wanted to use steel rods, but the rounding tools we have aren't suitable for material and quantity. Any suggestions for halfrounded 2.0mm parts?

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7987b.jpg)

A tweezer helped to solder the parts.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7988b.jpg)

The half rounded head is the counterpart to the upper and lower supporting bolt

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7992b.jpg)

with an according ball cup; here's the upper bogie part.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_7997b.jpg)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8003b.jpg)

For size comparison:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8004b.jpg)

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: fspg2 on October 10, 2014, 11:59:35 AM
Hello Volker,

A little update from my side.
From a colleague I got the waterjet-cutted trunnion holding pieces a few days ago.
The plates were 8mm thick. First I milled them to the final thickness of 7mm.
All visible holes and the contour were cut with a 0.4 mm thick water jet.

Then several holes were to be drilled at both sides.


Drehzapfenhaltestueck_01 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Drehzapfenhaltestueck_01.jpg)


For this I milled two shoes of brass so that I could push them to the trunnion holding pieces from above.


Drehzapfenhaltestueck_02 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Drehzapfenhaltestueck_02.jpg)


Thereby I could determine the correct positions for the holes to be drilled.


Drehzapfenhaltestueck_03 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Drehzapfenhaltestueck_03.jpg)


Drehzapfenhaltestueck_04 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Drehzapfenhaltestueck_04.jpg)


Finally the brass plates got a 1.9mm deep hole drilled with a 5mm cutter.

Drehzapfenhaltestueck_05 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Drehzapfenhaltestueck_05.jpg)


Drehzapfenhaltestueck_06 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Drehzapfenhaltestueck_06.jpg)


Drehzapfenhaltestueck_07 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Drehzapfenhaltestueck_07.jpg)



Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on October 14, 2014, 01:16:02 AM
Hi,

thanks to Frithjof the first drilled and sandblasted bogy cores arrived yesterday. Oh boy, this guy is so good with his machinery. I think he must be milling his breakfast toast. Each morning. Including butter and jam ;D. The water jet cutting is very precise, even with the 0.6 mm holes, but one can see some cutting marks on straight surfaces (see Frithjof's picture):

Drehzapfenhaltestueck_04 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8340/2903Drehzapfenhaltestueck_04.jpg)

The same at the sandblasted piece:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8069b.jpg)

I don't want to have those marks on the visible surfaces so I used a sanding block to get rid of them.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8072b.jpg)

Then I wanted to know if everything fits together and screwed the upper and lower sheets with the axle bearings to the core. One can also see the pivot ball joint.
 
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8062b.jpg)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8068b.jpg)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8066b.jpg)

So precise the cnc milled parts are, so unpredictable are the cast parts if a tenth is the point. Especially shrinkage and mold separation have big influence on that. Fortunately everything fits closely enough.

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on October 14, 2014, 02:44:11 AM
Perhaps nothing is truly "perfect" but that assembly comes about as close as humanly possible.

Incidentally, more of us should collaborate with each other. Look at the results.

Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on October 14, 2014, 02:49:27 AM
Incidentally, more of us should collaborate with each other. Look at the results.
Russ

Thanks, Russ. I forgot to mention that at another place: This collaboration is the result of knowing each other from our forum participation. I'm sure we wouldn't have met otherwise. Yes, that's a real value.

Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: NE Brownstone on October 14, 2014, 11:50:02 AM
I want some of those bearing castings!  I have no use for them, but they look so good I just want to have some to put up on my "shelf of cool things".  I love watching you metal working modelers.  Awesome.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Juke Joint on October 14, 2014, 01:08:30 PM
Skills off the chart!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Chuck Doan on October 14, 2014, 10:56:51 PM
Sometimes I am afraid to look at a new post of yours, Volker. But then I do.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on October 15, 2014, 10:13:18 AM
Hi Russ (the other, other one),

I want some of those bearing castings!

please send me a pm and I'll see what I can do.

Skills off the chart!

Thanks, Philip, but my portion was development and CAD construction and will be assembly and finish of the item. All parts are made by friends and contractors. This is going to be a batch of 11 wagons. Selling most of them is a way to afford the costs for development (which is time first of all), prototyping, castings and cnc machining, which would (at least for me) be far too high for one sole model.

Sometimes I am afraid to look at a new post of yours, Volker. But then I do.

Come on, Chuck, don't tell me you're intimidated  :D. Good one! I would be happy to reach your unsurpassed realism.

Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 15, 2014, 08:19:21 PM
Absolutely stunning!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on November 08, 2014, 04:29:54 AM
Thanks, Ray.

Meanwhile the axles and steel tyres arrived from a turnery.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8180b.jpg)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8182b.jpg)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8184b.jpg)

The printed master form waits to be casted in brass. One can see some 'pimpels' at the rear side of the circumference which are remains of the printing process (support material) which don't need to be removed because the tyre hast to be lathed later on.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8103b.jpg)

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on November 08, 2014, 01:34:03 PM
Adequate. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: 1-32 on November 08, 2014, 03:09:19 PM
hi volker
i cant wait to see the finished item lovely skilled work.
regards kim


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: turtle on November 28, 2014, 02:49:50 AM
Beautiful work shown here Volker, the axle bearing just leave me speechless.
Just out of curiosity, approximately how much time is spent doing CAD work as opposed to the actual machining ?.
Really enjoying seeing the progression.
Thanks.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on November 28, 2014, 12:13:59 PM
Beautiful work shown here Volker, the axle bearing just leave me speechless.
Just out of curiosity, approximately how much time is spent doing CAD work as opposed to the actual machining ?.
Really enjoying seeing the progression.
Thanks.

Thanks, Roger. It's difficult to put a number on this because on the one hand I'm an autodidact with CAD and this was my first large project with a lot of components having to interact and on the other hand my friend Frithjof mills the parts for me. I think I spent some 200 or 250 hours with research and construction. CAM for sure is faster than handcrafting, but it's the way if you want to create more than one item (this is going to be a lot of 10 Rollwagen). Maybe Frithjof can write something about the time it takes to mill one special part for example. I've been modeling 'by hand' before and I can't say, that CAD and CAM makes things 'faster' if there's only one item, but it surely makes things a lot easier, especially if working condition is the aim.

Thanks for looking in!

Volker




Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: marc_reusser on December 11, 2014, 12:49:34 AM
Beautiful work, as usual. really glad to see the progress on this.



Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on December 17, 2014, 03:30:28 PM
Beautiful work, as usual. really glad to see the progress on this.

Thanks, Marc. Glad to see you back posting!

Meanwhile the remaining brass castings arrived. There's the upper supporting bolt for the binder pendulums ...

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8399b.jpg)

... and the wheel disks,

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8397b.jpg)

which have to be lathed at circumference, center and front and then are going to be pressed in the steel tyres and with plastic bushes to the axles. I'll have this done for I don't have the tools for that. That's a project for next year.

Unfortunately the bearings have to be mounted before that. I found some inexpensive custom floating reamers at Ebay with 3,02 mm H7 and managed to have one first axle test mounted:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8394b.jpg)

The axle sits nearly backlash free between the bearings. I'm quite sure that there won't be problems with the low distance of 0.5 mm between steel tyre and bogie frame.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8395b.jpg)

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hauk on December 17, 2014, 04:03:06 PM

The axle sits nearly backlash free between the bearings. I'm quite sure that there won't be problems with the low distance of 0.5 mm between steel tyre and bogie frame.


Nice! I follow your progress with great interest.
But how freerolling are those bearings/axles?


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Design-HSB on December 17, 2014, 04:24:02 PM
Hello Volker,

nice that it continues, even better, of course you attend your quality stay.
Now there is still the challenge to the wheels also isolate.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: 1-32 on December 17, 2014, 09:13:24 PM
 but volker is it going to work.
kind regards kim


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on December 18, 2014, 02:36:56 AM
I think we can be confident the wheels and axles will be perfect. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on January 23, 2015, 03:11:46 AM
Hi all!

Nice! I follow your progress with great interest.
But how freerolling are those bearings/axles?

Hauk,

I think they'll be sufficiently freerolling. I had to put some work into 88 bearings before answering your question. Now I've got a state of axles which are turning when moving a fingertip over them without pressure. This will improve with a bit of silicone lubrication. For my gauge this is good. I've heard of a lot of modelers who aren't too happy with their ball bearings because the wagons tend to run away after a slight shove.


My bearings aren't split like the prototype parts and so they have to be included when mounting the wheelsets. I'll have this done by Holger Gräler, a guy who's company is very famous in Germany for his H0 scale prototypical wheelsets (he's called "Räderpapst" [wheel pope]). The bearings had to be reamed far enough not only to have them running free on the axle but also after mounting them to the bogies ... This is a real challenge according to the cast parts which never come out identically. At the first lot of bearings I removed the cast-on section succinctly and then sanded the seating. The result can't be neither level nor always absolutely accurate to size. At the second lot I've chosen another way. First I used a 3.02H7 mm reamer to ream the bearings manually. This makes them freerolling on the axle, but I wanted more backlash because of the described inaccuracies of the cast parts. So I chucked the reamer to the slowly running drill and reamed the parts with oscillating movements by hand again. After that I clamped 4 bearings into the edge of an aluminum angle and reamed them all in one to avoid any offset.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8459b.jpg)

Then I cut the cast-on section off ...

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8460b.jpg)

... and sanded a minimal channeling into the seating.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8476b.jpg)

Sanding the bearings' seatings until they start to be shiny provides at least a level seating. Maybe it's more precise, too.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8478b.jpg)

Cast parts almost never can be used without some treatment. At the bearing was a small mold mistake, resulting in a knob at one edge.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8485b.jpg)

This had to be removed with a sanding disk. Frithjof afterwards uses a jig to drill the four holes which have to fit precisely to the milled bogy parts.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8487b.jpg)

Doesn't matter for one wageon, but with 44 axles or 88 bearings this starts to dwindle into real work  ::).

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8489b.jpg)

Frithjof provided the next milled frame parts for me  8). The Rollwagen meanwhile received the base plate with the brakeman's workplace. The tear plate is an etched part, but shape and drillholes are made via cnc by Frithjof. The U-sections have little keys fitting to slots in the frame. I should have provided those slots for the tear plates, but it works without them, too.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8474b.jpg)

The brakeman's seat is a folded etched part with screw imitations. Trunnion diameter is 0.4 mm. RSU makes mounting the part quite easy. I used some soldering fluid and tinning paste. At the tear plate it takes some more solder.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8471b.jpg)

The base plate then is soldered to the U-sections, using the frame as a jig. Then the U-sections are soldered to the steel frame. There's some wear on the steel surface from the carbon electrode, which has to be sanded and hopefully should not be visible anymore after sand blasting.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8467b.jpg)

Last step is soldering the plate to the frame. I tried to create a solder fillet on the back side. It's a bit difficult to avoid solder building up on the front side which then has to be removed with desoldering braid, but it will work after some exercise. The dark spots aren't mistakes in the fillet. i didn't manage to take a better picture.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8469b.jpg)

Next parts are the weighbeams, connecting the frame to the bogies via the binder pendulums.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8493b.jpg)

For that the cast parts needed a complex treatment. The closed side was a bit too thin for casting and so the caster put some putty there. This had to be removed to level at all parts. Frithjof milled this. I sanded the contact areas to dimensions and removed some brass pearls from the cavity which result from air bubbles in the investment compound. All the square holes have to be filed and the holes have to be reamed to fit to the bolts' dimensions.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8494b.jpg)

I think the construction is clearly visible here:

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8499b.jpg)

Everything seems to fit insofar.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8500b.jpg)

Thanks for looking in!

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on January 23, 2015, 01:51:20 PM
With slightly more material and no more effort you could have built 1:1 scale components and then earned money by using them to transport goods on a nearby railroad! The modeling is most satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Ray Dunakin on January 23, 2015, 01:56:55 PM
Great stuff, Volker!

Although this kind of work is beyond me, seeing it always helps my understanding of working with brass, and gives me courage to achieve as much as I can with my limited tools and abilities.



Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Juke Joint on January 23, 2015, 08:13:48 PM
Doesn't matter for one wageon, but with 44 axles or 88 bearings this starts to dwindle into real work

Fettling Builds Character ! Super job on these parts!

Philip


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Hydrostat on February 19, 2015, 01:45:44 PM
Thanks for your posts!

With slightly more material and no more effort you could have built 1:1 scale components and then earned money by using them to transport goods on a nearby railroad! The modeling is most satisfactory. -- Russ

I'm afraid you're right, Russ. I merely wouldn't know how to take it down the stairs.

There's a problem in resistance soldering steel parts. It tends to burn holes into the material when high power is necessary. You can see this here, where I tried to solder those little brass angle sections into the steel frame.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8576b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8579b.JPG)


I started a request at buntbahn about what I've done wrong but nobody seems to know the answer. So I went back to my good old flambé torch. The brass part lies on a aluminum padding and is fixed with a clamp for soldering.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8612b.JPG)


Looks better than resistance soldering in that case ...


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8614b.JPG)


Frithjof provided more parts (three different kinds of angle sections) for assembly of the weighbeams.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8657b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8658b.JPG)


That are a lot of M 0.8 screws ... Is there something apparent to you at the next pictures?


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8653b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8648b.JPG)


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: finescalerr on February 19, 2015, 01:48:53 PM
I would have suggested a torch and I'm glad it worked out; the solder joints are beautiful. So is the rest of the assembly. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 19, 2015, 02:31:51 PM
Such precise work!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn
Post by: Marcel Ackle on February 26, 2015, 04:29:35 PM
Volker, amazing work!

Marcel


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on April 27, 2015, 11:35:28 AM
Thanks, Russ, Ray and Marcel.

Frithjof meanwhile milled the pivot block. The pivots were provided by Helmut; I just asked him to cut some tubing to make them myself from some additional screws, nuts and washers and what I got were the completed items ... Thanks, Helmut!


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8931b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8932b.JPG)


Underneath it looks that way. About the 4 bore holes: there's a square panel to come.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8933b.JPG)


Upside the pivot protrudes the crossmember


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8934b.JPG)


and then fits in to the bogie ball joint. The binder pendulums protrude into the notches


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8937b.JPG)


and are fixed with special bolts at the lower pedestals.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8940b.JPG)


It's taking shape. Slowly  :D.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8943b.JPG)


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 27, 2015, 11:59:20 AM
I can imagine, it must be a great pleasure when you don't have to hold back and you are able to select only the best solutions for your project. This is absolut professional engineering on the the highest levels.

Speechless,
Peter


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Bill Gill on April 27, 2015, 12:45:12 PM
Superurb design and execution.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: finescalerr on April 27, 2015, 01:05:50 PM
I enthusiastically agree with both posts above. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: 1-32 on April 27, 2015, 03:23:05 PM
volker
really lovelly work that you and the master frithjof are producing.the quality is first rate your effort is really showing
kind regards kim


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 27, 2015, 04:16:24 PM
Marvelous work!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: EZnKY on April 27, 2015, 05:15:43 PM
Wow.  Just wow.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: marc_reusser on May 04, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
Simply stunning, (as always)....a true work of industrial art.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on May 06, 2015, 11:45:09 AM
Thanks, Peter, Bill, Russ, Kim, Ray, Eric and Marc.

I can imagine, it must be a great pleasure when you don't have to hold back and you are able to select only the best solutions for your project.

Yes, Peter it is. I'm really glad that I have Frithjof (not to mention the other guys more or less involved here) as a friend. Even to this day after it turned out how much work this project means for him and his mill  :o. I wouldn't be able to build at this standard without support with those machined parts.

About the seats: They were exposed to weather all the year and I would like to ask you for your opinions concerning my coloring.

Frithjof provided them milled from beech wood. With the triangular scraper's tip I added vertical joints to the milled longitudinal ones. Left hand the milled item, right hand carved.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8947b.JPG)

After watering for a few minutes the parts are stained with thin Gouache. Left hand a mixture of black, umber and opaque white, right hand only black. The grain unbends because of the water, resulting in a much coarser surface.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8948b.JPG)

Then I sprayed the parts with some gray Tamiya color unevenly and added some additional color humps with a brush. Rubbing/sanding the dry parts on a paper sheet smoothens the humps. I think this works well at the right part for a stressed and often painted wooden part. At the left one the surface is to uneven. Next time I'll sand the parts before the gray coloring.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8949b.JPG)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8952b.JPG)

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8954b.JPG)

Any suggestions?


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: finescalerr on May 06, 2015, 12:24:54 PM
From an artistic standpoint I like the three on the left and especially the two in the middle. But the appearance of natural weathering sometimes can be "disappointing" so the seat on the far right seems very real somehow. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Ray Dunakin on May 06, 2015, 06:06:56 PM
If the goal is to make it look like wood which has been previously painted, perhaps many times, and has had most of the paint worn off, then my choice is the one on the right.



Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Chuck Doan on May 06, 2015, 11:18:25 PM
All have merit. The far right one seems closest, at least as can be seen in photos.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: lab-dad on May 07, 2015, 06:00:57 AM
To me I "think" if my bum has sat on and off that wood for some time it should be quite smooth and almost polished. Denim(jeans) over time would impart quite a shine to the wood.

Now if it has been sitting idle for a number of years then the one on the right.
With may be some moss on the sides <grin>

-Marty


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Bill Gill on May 07, 2015, 03:26:25 PM
Not exactly the same, but here is a painted wooden seat that saw a lot of sitting:  http://www.amazon.com/Antique-Milking-Stool-Painted-Primitive/dp/B00DWH0AOO

I tend to agree with Marty, unless the seat hadn't be used for some time, the top surface would be somewhat polished - not handrubbed, but even if the grain were raised from the weather, the highest layers would still be buffed and shiny from constant use, not like garden furniture which typical saw only occasional use.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on May 13, 2015, 08:32:48 AM
Thank you all for your hints! Other than at a feldbahn locomotive seat, which for sure shows an appearance like Marty and Bill suggested, the Rollwagen were standing a lot of time on any factory yard with a wagon on top of them or 'naked' in the exchange yard. So I think smoothing the surface a bit more before painting may be the way. Apart from that to me the right one looks closest to the estimated appearance.

I finally dared to solder the bogies. I was very afraid of warping parts as the core is very thick (7 mm) and the covers are quite thin (0.5 mm) and I'm very happy that it worked that good without any warpage. And I added the holder for the brake rod.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8970b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8967b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8968b.JPG)


Firts I fix all 16 bearing holes with stainless steel screws, which are painted with an Edding to avoid solder sticking to them. I fix the sandwich to an aluminum section with longitudinal holes so the soldered covers with their screw imitations can't fall off. By chance the stainless steel screw heads protrude the same length as the imitations do. I use a flambé torch to heaten the sandwich up, making continuous movements, until the solder starts flowing. The massive core spreads heat very good. I cover the parts before assembling with solder fluid. The solder injects over the complete area although the parts are screwed tightly. I start with some solder depots and add the solder wire until a fillet appears. I have to turn the part twice to give solder to all positions. The already soldered small parts at the fronts don't come off because they are sitting tight in the milled gaps.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8972b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_8973b.JPG)


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: finescalerr on May 13, 2015, 01:01:42 PM
Exceptionally good fabrication. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Ray Dunakin on May 13, 2015, 01:55:49 PM
Exceptionally good fabrication. -- Russ

Indeed!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Bill Gill on May 13, 2015, 04:02:59 PM
Wow!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: lab-dad on May 15, 2015, 05:40:30 AM
Looks fantastic!

 ??? The aluminum piece; is it from something else or did you make it?
Looks like a very useful tool!
-Marty


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on May 18, 2015, 06:15:08 AM
Thanks Russ, Ray, Bill and Marty!

??? The aluminum piece; is it from something else or did you make it?
Looks like a very useful tool!
-Marty

This is usual 'perforated web aluminum plate' (translation word by word from german, didn't find an english translation :P). I found it in the residue box of a shop in town: http://www.diessnergmbh.de/default.html (http://www.diessnergmbh.de/default.html) (Kim knows the shop ;D). I think it's used for vent hole covers in houses or so. You're right, it's very handy for soldering and doesn't dissipate heat too much.

Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on May 22, 2015, 01:28:31 PM
First parts of the braking system:


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9040b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9038b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9039b.JPG)


The hangers are 0.8 mm thick. Frithjof milled them from a 1 mm plate, taking away 2/10th and then milling shape and holes. One can see this at the surface. The prototypical noses prevent the brake shoes from flapping down and so they do at the model.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9054b.JPG)


The bolts are made from 1.4 mm rivets with the Dremel and a file.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9052b.JPG)


Brake shoes are made in FUD at Shapeways. They need to be from an isolating material to prevent short circuits via the braking system.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9053b.JPG)


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Ray Dunakin on May 22, 2015, 10:41:43 PM
Very nice! I like the paint job on the brake shoes.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: finescalerr on May 23, 2015, 01:08:22 AM
Satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on July 15, 2015, 12:34:03 PM
Hi,

the covers for the binder pendulums found their place at the bogies. Meanwhile I found a reasonable way to solder the bogies lot. The upper and lower plates have slots for the vertical front parts, which again have slots for the brake system brackets and so on. This way I'm able to premount all parts and then solder them, starting wih the both front sides. The additional detailing on the upper plate follows in a next step, again using the flambé torch.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9095b.JPG)


I cover all areas with an edding, which should not receive solder; neither soldering fluid nor solder stick to it.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9096b.JPG)


Bogie with covers:


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9101b.JPG)


Mounting the frame means to tighten hundreds of M 0.8 screws. I used a piece of wood and some harder foam to keep them aligned for assembling washers and nuts.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9090b.JPG)


The working braking system requires a lot of washers and splints. I didn't want to bore more than 250 0.5 mm holes into 1.4 mm pins, but found another solution, which may work as cast parts.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9120b.JPG)


I reduced the standardizes, wrong diameter washers to 2.1 and 2.7 mm diameter with the Dremel.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9109b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9110b.JPG)


The self filed splints are brazed to them. This allows to solder the small parts to the casting tree (is this the right english word :P?).


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9111b.JPG)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9114b.JPG)


I made different executions of the bent splints.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9118b.JPG)


So those parts later on only need to be soldered to the pins which for sure is much less effortful than drilling all the holes and filing all the splints. Hole diameter is 1.5 mm. After casting they still should fit to the 1.4 mm bolts.


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: finescalerr on July 15, 2015, 01:01:02 PM
Somewhat amazing. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 15, 2015, 08:47:28 PM
A very clever solution!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: lab-dad on July 16, 2015, 05:57:43 AM
What a great solution!

Are you casting them or is a vendor doing the casting? metal I assume?

-Marty


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on July 16, 2015, 06:21:19 AM
Thanks, Guys,

What a great solution!

Are you casting them or is a vendor doing the casting? metal I assume?

-Marty

I'll have them brass or nickel silver casted by a vendor. My (meanwhile somewhat older)  provider said that he was able to cast parts down to 0.6 mm diameter (which means that he's got difficulties waxing thinner parts). The splint diameter is 0.5 mm and so the single bent parts are 0.5 high and about 0.2 wide. We'll see  8).

Does anybody know a provider for smaller diameters? Would be very interesting.

Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: 1-32 on July 16, 2015, 01:55:22 PM
volker
great split pins-great detail
regards kim


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Chuck Doan on July 16, 2015, 10:07:44 PM
Nice!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on September 18, 2015, 01:58:04 PM
Hi,

I'm still waiting for the cast parts, so let's have a brief look at the state of affairs:


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9150b.JPG)


9 of 11 frames are soldered to their base plates and the bogie crossmembers. 6 bogies are mounted. Next were the buffer cages with their cover lids, which are etched from 0.2 mm brass. The cages are milled from 1 mm brass by Frithjof; I had to anneal them before bending to avoid breakage. Right hand are the uncleaned soldered parts, equipped with screw imitations.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9189b.jpg)


This time I was able to use the RSU with good results. First I filled the channeling with solder and then applied the lids, which was easy because of the pre drilled holes for the screw imitations. For soldering I fixed them with
a hair clip.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9192b.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9193b.jpg)


The crossmembers claimed abit more sophistication. I constructed a jig and Frithjof milled its parts from Aluminum and Pertinax. There are 1 mm wide slots in front and behind of the aluminum blocks (likewise at their sides), which provide exact positioning using some inserted aluminum plates. Again I had good results with the RSU. The aluminum blocks prevent the Pertinax plate from heat attrition. The bubbles are the result of my first attempt with a flambé torch.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9198b.jpg)


The parts will be mounted after final paint but that's how they belong to each other. Or so.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9195b.jpg)

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: lab-dad on September 18, 2015, 07:10:33 PM
BREATHTAKING!!!!

Marty


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Allan G on September 18, 2015, 09:28:15 PM
I keep returning to this project and review each page in disbelief. INCREDIBLE!!!! Allan


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: finescalerr on September 19, 2015, 12:56:17 AM
Yes. Once again I find myself reeling in stunned disbelief. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: 5thwheel on September 19, 2015, 09:00:56 AM
Absolutely consistent beautiful looking work. I have missed something along the line, what is RSU?


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Design-HSB on September 19, 2015, 09:21:27 AM
what is RSU?
Hi Bill, RSU = Resistor soldering unit.

I also just finished small parts for the "Rollwagen" and think Volker will I imagine shortly under the construction progress.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on September 20, 2015, 03:15:43 AM
Thanks, guys.

Absolutely consistent beautiful looking work. I have missed something along the line, what is RSU?

Bill, it's a resistance soldering unit. My experience with it was that it doesn't suit for steel parts and rather big areas / thick diameters. But with the 0.5 mm components of the crossmembers or the 0.2 mm lids at the cages it works very good. I have both a carbon electrode with an additional terminal and a tweezer, which you can see in two of the pictures soldering the cage. The crossmembers were soldered with the carbon electrode.

Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Lawton Maner on September 22, 2015, 01:00:42 PM
What kind of milling centre do you have to produce those intricate parts?


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on September 22, 2015, 02:08:30 PM
None! I'm a kitchen table tinkerer. My friend Frithjof (it's the 'Feldbahnmodule with ship' guy; see http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1424.0 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1424.0)) mills all the parts based on my CAD.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on October 09, 2015, 08:35:03 AM
Hi,

a shipment with some spindle parts arrived yesterday. Those are for the brake shoes, but the spindle nuts are still missing. They'll be made out of a milled brass part and a short silver steel rod, which is brazed into the milled part. Subsequently the threads are going to be cut, but I'll show that on occasion. The spindles have M2 x 0,25 threads and I'd let a precision workshop make them.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9211b.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9212b.jpg)


These are the spindles for the brake:


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9220b.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9222b.jpg)


That's what they looked like before I treated them with Gravoxide and water  :):


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9213b.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9214b.jpg)


I used a simple jig for brazing the rods to the cast brass handwheels. For those rather small parts I like to use brazing paste which one can easily dispense.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715IMG_9207b.jpg)


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hauk on October 09, 2015, 08:53:31 AM
Nothing beats a cool brake wheel!
Love this build.


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: finescalerr on October 09, 2015, 12:46:43 PM
Adequate. -- Russ


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Chuck Doan on October 09, 2015, 01:23:36 PM
More beautiful work!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 09, 2015, 06:11:41 PM
Very nice!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Marcel Ackle on October 12, 2015, 02:32:22 AM
Volker, it is a pleasure to look at your construction progress!

Marcel


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Bill Gill on October 12, 2015, 06:06:56 AM
Geez, there is a lot of really good fabrication going on on this forum and you are certainly contributing your share to that!


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: Hydrostat on March 09, 2019, 01:51:47 PM
Yes, it is 3 and a half year since the last post. I faced some insurmountable odds with the brass wheel cores. All the castings were not perfectly round and largely uneven. A friend tried to deal with them on the lathe, but after several huge interruptions he finally surrendered. Whatever reason it was: maybe the master form was not in order or the caster didn't do a good job extracting the wax pieces from the molds - it was to late to check what happenend and the parts didn't meet my expectations at all. And it wasn't possible to deal with them at all. It took some time to accept this painful and expensive loss. I learned the hard way that it never does pay to be in a hurry, driven by impatiency. I was close to bin that project.

Again: Good to have friends. Frithjof offered help to manufacture the wheelsets for the Rollwagen. This time I decided to have the wheel cores high resolution printed at Kalle Stümpfl with a glass globe strengthened resin. The prints are that exactly to press them with some slight hammering into the tires.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_01.jpg)


The tires have a collar at front side, where the cores are in contact with. We used the lathe's tailstock and a machined steel pressure piece to press the cores into the tires, whicht sat in a brass collet chuck.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_02.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_03.jpg)


It took nearly one day to construct and machine the auxiliary equipment. The next day I glued the cores with very thin CA to the tires. The slightly transparent material allows to see the CA being sucked into the seat's gap.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_04.jpg)


After that the wheels' backs were sanded down with another gauge to an equal measure for all 88 pieces. Again the lathe served to ream the axle bores to 2.95 mm for the 3mm axles.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_05.jpg)


That's the result after another long day, only interrupted by a short visit at Helmut's exhibition:
 

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_06.jpg)


At the third day we managed to mount the axles with a special tool. The wheel is centered by a pertinax gauge and the axle via the brass sheets of the tool.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_07.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_08.jpg)


Same with the opposite side, but another pertinax gauge helped to adjust the internal flange dimension.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_12.jpg)


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_10.jpg)


The gauges and auxiliary equipment being used.


(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9025/5715Radsaetze_Rollwagen_11.jpg)


Frithjof, thank you. This was far beyond my abilities.


Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Rollwagen no. 28 of the Plettenberger Kleinbahn in 1/22.5 scale
Post by: finescalerr on March 09, 2019, 03:13:41 PM
You guys should move to Switzerland and become precision watchmakers or something! Between Helmut's diorama, Frithjof's work on the steamroller, and this remarkable example of superb fabrication I will need several weeks of quality time with my therapist! The modeling here belongs in an international museum for superlative human achievement. Satisfactory. -- Russ