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General Category => Modellers At Work => Topic started by: Peter_T1958 on October 29, 2012, 01:13:07 PM



Title: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 29, 2012, 01:13:07 PM
Hi there everyone
 
This transmission system had been built in 1864 in my hometown Schaffhausen in northern Switzerland. The whole system was very innovative for its time and was a very ingenious one
too (It won the gold medal at the world exhibition in Paris in 1889). The turbine house had to be placed on the left Rhine riverbank, so the motive power was led to the industries on the
opposite side by steel cables. It worked the same way the belt and pulley system used inside mills and machine shops. The whole arrangement consisted of a turbine house (T) and five
pylons (1-5) with the pulleys.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Ansicht_4_zps7590c7fa.jpg)

Those pylons were really huge constructions - e.g. the pulleys measured 4.5 meters in diameter (15 ft.).

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler1_zpse501a83b.jpg)

The biggest problem is the lack of clear detail photos of the pylons. Until this year, I could only find photographs of poor quality. But now I discovered more by chance than anything else
in one of the factory archives an original plan with all the mesurements. That could be the perfect prototype for a something different project, I thought.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Rieter_Plan_zpsf0e9699a.jpg)

With this new informations I could finally draw some plans in 1/50 (approx. O-Scale). First I'was playing with the idea of doing it in 1/32 but in that case it would have covered the whole
writing desk. So I am planning to build a 1/50 scale model of pylon No 4 which can be seen here in two different time periods.

early

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler4_3_zps103a8e03.jpg)

later

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler4_0_zpsb5da316d.jpg)

From such pylons the rotary motion was led into the factory buildings by drive shafts.

The mayor dilemma in my project: I suffer from a chronic shortage of time and so every modelling project becomes a long term build.
Nevertheless I already did some preliminary tests for imitating roughly cut sandstone. Thought I could create some different masters for casting the required number.
Here my first attempts...

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Sandsteinimitation006_zps4656f57c.jpg)


Hope you understand my Englisch ...

Cheers, Peter



Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: mabloodhound on October 29, 2012, 01:22:51 PM
Peter, your English is just fine.   And that is an ambitious project an sure will require some tedious work.
I am looking forward to some photos as you go along.
 8)


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on October 29, 2012, 04:08:45 PM
A fascinating looking piece of machinery. Great close-up photos.

So let me get this right...these cables were electrified with high voltage?....they appear to be less than 2m above the water!? (Just the kind of thing a kid like me would have poked at with a stick.  :)  )

The drawing that you show...is that the one you did, or is that an old/original one?

I like the stone pieces. What did you use to carve them...looks like a soft Limestone (Kalkstein).

If you were to make a mold, my only concern would be that at some point one would begin to see the repetition of the chiseling patern, unless you did a more basic/simple, one, and then came back in and modified each exposed face seperately. Also thinking about this when I see the back side of the tower which shows the different stones with their water wear/erosion patterns...which is a very neat detail/feature.

The english is perfect...no worries.


M


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: billmart on October 29, 2012, 05:15:23 PM
Marc -

No electricity.  It's a mechanical system that uses steel cables as very long belts.  The pulleys and gearing at each pylon transfer power from the cables to a shaft that enters some factory.  You can see the horizontal shaft in a couple of the photos.

Bill Martinsen


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: lab-dad on October 29, 2012, 05:37:01 PM
Great project!
And yes very unique!
I love all the gears and pulleys!
-Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on October 29, 2012, 06:01:04 PM
Marc -

No electricity.  It's a mechanical system that uses steel cables as very long belts.  The pulleys and gearing at each pylon transfer power from the cables to a shaft that enters some factory.  You can see the horizontal shaft in a couple of the photos.

Bill Martinsen


AH!...thanks Bill.


Marc


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 30, 2012, 11:44:33 AM
Hi gents

The drawing that you show...is that the one you did, or is that an old/original one?

No, no, this is the original one. It measures about 3.50 x 2.00 Meters! Unfortunately there was no opportunity to scan/copy the whole plan so I had to take pictures from every detail in the darkish cellar with my iPhone  :-[ :-[ :-[


Quote
I like the stone pieces. What did you use to carve them...looks like a soft Limestone (Kalkstein)

Here I am still in the try and error modus. Both previous attempts to get as close to the original were cast with decofill plaster (something like hydocal). At one of them I lined the mould with a thin layer of Latex Rubber with some duplicated stone surface. The second one was carved with two types of needles fixed in a drill chuck and then brushed with some old toothbrush. But you are right: It looks more as a Limestone than a chiseld sandstone. To mention is that there some original boulders still exist. They are today in use at some foundation nearby. Here what it schould look like:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Foundation1_zps31a0ebf6.jpg)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Foundation3_zpsf6b23674.jpg)


Quote
If you were to make a mold, my only concern would be that at some point one would begin to see the repetition of the chiseling patern, unless you did a more basic/simple, one, and then came back in and modified each exposed face seperately. Also thinking about this when I see the back side of the tower which shows the different stones with their water wear/erosion patterns...which is a very neat detail/feature.

Good spot! On one hand I can't modify each of the more then hundred stones and on the other there is a danger, that one would see the repetition of the chiseling pattern. Any idea?
As you wrote the erosion is a prominentand neat detail. Especially those parts of the stones that periodically are located under the surface of the water. There the erosion is logically stronger and this is well visible in the close-up photos.


Quote
The english is perfect...no worries.

Thank you very much. With al lot of help (Altavista babelfish... ::)


Marc -
No electricity.  It's a mechanical system that uses steel cables as very long belts.  The pulleys and gearing at each pylon transfer power from the cables to a shaft that enters some factory.  You can see the horizontal shaft in a couple of the photos.

Bill Martinsen

That's what I wanted to say, but couldn't express. Thanks, Bill!

Regards, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: Malachi Constant on October 30, 2012, 01:18:11 PM
Quote
Quote
The english is perfect...no worries.

Thank you very much. With al lot of help (Altavista babelfish... ::)


Peter --

This is a very interesting project!  Definitely look forward to seeing your efforts here.

When I visited Basel, my friends there were nice enough to teach me lots of funny "Basel deutsch" so I could confuse everyone when I reached Wien!  ;D

All of the American forum members speak "funny English" and even some of the members from the U.K. do that!  ;D

But, the modeling project is a common language, and I am glad that you are here to share yours!

Cheers,
Dallas


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on October 30, 2012, 08:34:38 PM
As for the cut stone, making 10 or 12 masters should not be too difficult as the face of the stone in the photograph is fairly smooth for hand cut stone. 

First make a mould and cast as many smooth blank stones you need for the masters and chip away at them to get the basic texture.  Make one or two at a time so they do not end up looking alike.

Make a mould of these stones and make as many stones as you think you will need + 10% for waste.  Then add additional detail to each stone as needed during construction. 

If you get stumped for something to say about the model, just post a picture and let us share in envy.

Lawton Maner


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 31, 2012, 03:04:57 PM
Hi all

Best wishes from the other side of the world to all who were impacted by the storm.  Hope you're all okay!

Here some new attempts. This time I used a wire brush to to reproduce the chiseling pattern of the sandstone.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Sandsteinimitation009_zps7070d220.jpg)

I have the feeling that it comes a little bit closer, but isn't it too uniform now?


Peter




Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on October 31, 2012, 04:42:37 PM
Peter,

personally, I feel those are perfect. "Spot-on" as out UK friends would say. I wish I could do so well.

I do not feel they are uniform at all.

I would think that in real lfe there would often also be some similarities between the faces of some stones, as the individual stone masons/cutters, would likely have worked/cut on more than one stone, so his specific technique/"hand" would likely be present on multiple pieces. Plus the specific grain of the stone, would likely be repeated in areas, as well as the overall effect of the weathering, would likely have somewhat unified, or homogonized certain faces or areas on the abutment. 

Also the scale that you are working in is quite small, so though you want to express and give the feel of the finish and texture of the individual stones, you dont want to overdo it or exagerate it, because it could quickly become a bit of a caricature.


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: finescalerr on November 01, 2012, 01:51:18 AM
I agree with Marc. Most impressive. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on November 01, 2012, 11:12:48 AM
Looks great to me!


Title: Re: Steel cable power transmission
Post by: lab-dad on November 01, 2012, 03:40:59 PM
Looks like a winner to me too!
Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: NE Brownstone on November 05, 2012, 10:22:09 AM
Those look to be as close to the real thing as any that I've seen and I've  stared at a lot of stones.

If you move a #11 blade over a piece of plaster at an angle close to 80 degrees so that it digs in a little (not dragging it across) it will start to "chatter" (common machinist term used when the cutting tool does not dig in correctly and jumps up and down, or chatters.  You can hear it too.)
This chatter will create many smaller chipping cuts not unlike hammering with a masons chipping hammer.  You need to rotate the piece to make sure that the chipping is not in one direction.  This is how I dress all of my stones that require a hammered finish and it's fairly quick to do once you get the hang of it.

my two sents


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: fspg2 on November 05, 2012, 12:04:21 PM
Peter,
It looks fine :)
Such kind of projects I love!
History is somehow alive again! If stones could talk ;)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 05, 2012, 01:58:03 PM
Quote
Also the scale that you are working in is quite small, so though you want to express and give the feel of the finish and texture of the individual stones, you dont want to overdo it or exagerate it, because it could quickly become a bit of a caricature.
Marc
Quote
If you move a #11 blade over a piece of plaster at an angle close to 80 degrees so that it digs in a little (not dragging it across) it will start to "chatter" (common machinist term used when the cutting tool does not dig in correctly and jumps up and down, or chatters.  You can hear it too.)
This chatter will create many smaller chipping cuts not unlike hammering with a masons chipping hammer.  You need to rotate the piece to make sure that the chipping is not in one direction.  This is how I dress all of my stones that require a hammered finish and it's fairly quick to do once you get the hang of it.
Russ

That's why I love this forum so much. I can learn a lot from you guys - thanks!


Quote
Such kind of projects I love! History is somehow alive again! If stones could talk ;)
Frithjof

I totally agree with you! When I first saw that photo with you, your father and little sister at Buntbahn.de I understood why you are going to start such a impressive project. It is turning back the clock indeed. I could stare on the old photographs for hours an hours...


By now a first test run in stone production happened. I intended to do some different masters of each required size with some softish stuff and modified each exposed face seperately.
Afterwards the castings were done with a porcelain-like casting compound. So the "stones" could be painted easily without damaging the surface too much!
This is plan A and there is no plan B at the moment ... :-\
   
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Sandsteinimitation012.jpg)

Peter



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on November 05, 2012, 03:13:23 PM
Those are looking very promising. Your going to need a lot of them!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Malachi Constant on November 05, 2012, 07:04:09 PM
Those stone blocks look great!  -- Dallas


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on November 06, 2012, 01:08:18 AM
Peter,

Is it just the photo, or my imagination,....but the cast stones you made look smoother than the last set of sample/test pieces you made?

I am wondering about the porcelain material....though, as you say durable, I worry that because of the hardness and lack of absorbancy, thefe is a chance that the finish stines could end up looking "painted" rather than like a natural material. ( this often happens when you see painted resin or plastic stone/brick/concrete castings).


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 06, 2012, 03:52:44 PM
Thank you very much for your encouraging words.

@Marc
Quote
Is it just the photo, or my imagination,....but the cast stones you made look smoother than the last set of sample/test pieces you made?

At first I apolgize for the poor quality of my photos. My "equipment" is a simple pocket camera and for close up pics a magnifer glass has to do it. :-\
The shot of the cast stones was made under artificial light; the first test pieces in daylight.

Quote
I am wondering about the porcelain material....though, as you say durable, I worry that because of the hardness and lack of absorbancy, thefe is a chance that the finish stines could end up looking "painted" rather than like a natural material. ( this often happens when you see painted resin or plastic stone/brick/concrete castings).

Good spot! And I share yours sorrows. Here I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand I have the imagination, that the original pylons could have looked something like this:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Foundation5.jpg)

On the other hand that would mean I have to paint it anyway at least in part. If I have to do so with any methode whatever the cast stones should be robust.
But be assured I have absolute no experience in modelling with such material so I am deeply grateful for constructive criticism or hints of the experts here.

Peter







Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 08, 2012, 12:51:41 PM
As already feared and also noted by Marc working with the porcelain material ist quite tricky. Not that there are substantial differences between the two sorts of stones, but as you can see in this photo, the porcelain materials sometimes shows tiny air bubbles on the surface (yellow arrow), sometimes not at all (red arrow).

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Sandsteinimitation014B.jpg)

I suppose it's due to a chemical reaction. Now I ask myself how to prevent these annoying bubbles ...

My wife happened to see the photo and mentioned in passing: Aren't they a bit too pronounced? To my mind they should be more smoother..! Now I'm quite a bit confused ...

Peter



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on November 08, 2012, 04:52:01 PM
To eliminate air bubbles I put about half
of the plaster in the mold.
Then using a stif brush "stab" at it.
Then i gently drop the mold on the bench
until no more bubbles appear.
Since doing this i have no issues wirh air bubbles.
Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on November 08, 2012, 05:33:43 PM
Looking at this photo, I cant tell that those are air bubbles...looks fine to me.

If you are concerned that these stones appear too rough, you could cast some smoother ones to mix in. I thing that this is now more noticeable, because you have a larger grouping/assemblage of weathered stones.  Maybe if you do some slightly smoother ones...use more of those mixed in for the areas of the abutment that got less wear and erosion, and the rougher ones for around the base and water sides.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Malachi Constant on November 09, 2012, 06:39:29 PM
Also, keep in mind that you're looking directly at an extreme close-up of ONLY stones ... which will be part of a larger scene ... I suspect that when they are seen "in context" (surrounded by scenery materials, etc.) they will "appear" or "look" close or very close to what you have in mind.  Cheers, Dallas


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: NE Brownstone on November 13, 2012, 09:57:56 AM
Yes! To what Marty said.   Most bubbles are due to pour pouring practice and doing what Marty says helps dislodge any bubbles and gets them away from the surface.  All it takes is one twitch of the hand while pouring and you can have a nice crop of bubbles.  Surfactants help, but one must remember that a surfactant is basically soap and with enough agitation like a splash can cause the bubbles that it is supposed to eliminate. 

It seems like a PIA to have to do extra steps as opposed to just pouring, but if you don't want  to have to fill in scale bowling ball holes it's worth the extra effort. 

As for the bubbles in the above picture, "what bubbles" :)  Your stones look marvelous!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 21, 2012, 01:17:36 PM
If you are concerned that these stones appear too rough, you could cast some smoother ones to mix in. I thing that this is now more noticeable, because you have a larger grouping/assemblage of weathered stones.  Maybe if you do some slightly smoother ones...use more of those mixed in for the areas of the abutment that got less wear and erosion, and the rougher ones for around the base and water sides.

Hey Marty, Dallas, Marc and Russ,

Many thanks for your kind words and your advices and that helped me to move into the right direction. Marc, you hit the nail on the head. However as things are now I am not satisfied with my current attempts (bottom row is not completet yet):

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkI004klein.jpg)

All in all the chiseling pattern is too rough compared to what I have as impression from the original photos such as this:


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler3_0.jpg)

I think this would be not too bad for scale 1/32 and larger but not for 1/50 :-(

So back at square one, I will try to achieve a smoother surface but with about the same texture. No idea how to put that into practice. I've already replaced the steel brush with an brass one. Now I will try a glass fibre pen. Hope this will work ...

Here a photo that reveals wonderfully the atmosphere on the Rhine banks towards the end of the 19th century...

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Ansicht_1899.jpg)

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on November 21, 2012, 05:07:11 PM
Imperfect or not, that wall looks very, very good. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on November 22, 2012, 12:43:19 AM
What about using a different material for the master, something that is more pliable,...something like styrene, that is soft enough to take and retain very small and fine impressions.

...along that same vein, what about building up a texture, in the same manner that armor modelers create cast iron and rusted surfaces...you can use thinned Tamiya putty, Mr Surfacer and liquid plastic solvent/glue to get different effeccts. These can then be smoothed, eased and sanded using steeel wool and/or fine sandpaper.....afterwards you can also go back in and add additional chisel marks and impressions with dental tools and such.....and if you get too rough in one area/point, you can ease/smooth it by applying some liquid solvent.

Just a thought.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: nk on November 24, 2012, 11:07:43 AM
I've cast a lot of individual bricks and I always add a drop or two of dishwashing detergent into the plaster before pouring into the cast. This reduces the surface tension of the water and consequently reduces the amount of bubbles significantly in the final cast. If you are looking fior variation in the quality of stone tooling you can use a variety of wire brushes: steel, brass, nylon etc.

You are getting great results, so please take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

I also belive that Schaffhausen has another interesting feature, started by a gentleman from Boston, The IWC factory.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on December 09, 2012, 03:51:06 AM
Thanks Marc and Narayan

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/11_8926_0505_02.jpg)

At last I found a reference photo that gets an idea of what it could have looked once. This is a barrage in Southern Germany and was also built in the late 19th Century.
You can clearly see that the surface of the sandstone is rather smooth still today.

Here my latest attempts. This time I used different methodes to reproduce the subtle chiseling pattern of the sandstone, e.g. removing the casting mould sides during the drying process led to some random effects of flaking sandstone ..


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkII001.jpg)

Peter




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on December 09, 2012, 04:42:27 AM
Hi Peter,

the stones look great - especially the upper left one and the right one beneath. Can you show us a weathered attempt?

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on December 09, 2012, 05:49:59 AM
Hi Volker (Hallo Nachbar ;))

Most photos show heavy discoloration due to water, weather, efflorescence, and fungal infestation (???). No idea how to do those blotches, scratches, shades... yet.
Here annother reference pic:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/22_7048_0412_02.jpg)

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on December 09, 2012, 06:23:18 AM
Peter, please try with very thin watercolour (gouache). Caran d' Ache is a very good brand from Switzerland which I can recommend to you. But every cheap watercolor set from school does nearly as well. You can work wet in wet, starting with only lightly coloured water. Your material should absorb the water well. If it doesn't (whyever) just add a bit (a tiny drop) of dish detergent.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on December 09, 2012, 01:22:20 PM
The texture looks great, I think you've got it just right.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on December 09, 2012, 05:12:36 PM
Peter,

The new pieces are perfect, and quite stunning. Hard to believe this is 1/50 scale. Thank you also for the 2 new reference images.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on December 10, 2012, 08:58:15 AM
Looking good to me.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on December 10, 2012, 01:48:07 PM
Hard to believe this is 1/50 scale

And it is a very time-consuming process. Day-to-day after work and after having read my litte daughter a bed-time story  :) :) :) I am going to cast one or two samples. Only one of five trials is somewhat suitable...
But your comments will encourage me not to give up. Thanks!

Peter



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on December 22, 2012, 06:47:30 AM
Peter
I feel your pain.
I have been casting and flooring lintels for weeks.
many poor examples nothing worth showing!
I am looking forward to more progress from you - and myself!
Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on December 22, 2012, 10:01:57 AM
I am looking forward to more progress from you - and myself!
Marty

Sorry Marty, there is no progress to show at the moment. But I want to accelerate my attempts over the Christmas holidays.
Here the result after some nightly work - ready to pour the casting rubber into the forms. This will become the masters for two stone strips, as each strip is of different high  :-\

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkII00_zpsabc1f71b.jpg)

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: nk on December 22, 2012, 11:36:35 AM
Peter, you really have great texture on those blocks. One thing I have noticed from my experience as a picture restorer is that if you have the texture right, the exact colour becomes a lot less important. My only other advice is to cast many spare blocks to experiment with different media: watercolour, watercolour pencils, gouache (think of it as opaque watercolour), oil and acrylic. They all work differently and you will find the ones that works for you. Also for some of your dark areas with light spots on them, a liquid mask may be helpful. Also, I have found if the colour doesn't work, you can always re-texture the surface and add more paint, and sometimes you can strip off paint with masking tape, which also adds a nice texture. Good luck, I am sure you will achive amazing results.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on December 25, 2012, 09:02:55 AM
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkI009B_zps9f06ca67.jpg)

Here my first try on the "old" texture with heavily diluted Vallejo paints (Contrarily to my first thoughts my the porcelain-like casting compound doesn't absorb the water.). It simply served to check the color hues of the cast stones. Ok, it gives an slight impression of the "how to look at the end". Even so that's not exactly what I had in mind yet...  I will start over at a later date and will take a slightly different approach.

Some hours later I read Andy Littles advices in the "Dry Stone Wall ... SBS" thread concerning the different green hues. Very interesting! I will consider them in my next attemps (Thanks, Andy!).

Peter



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on January 19, 2013, 01:06:46 PM
The original plan was to cast umteen blocks of sandstone, staking them with the help of superglue - and finished! Now, the idea has been surpassed by reality... I have to bring them into line in sanding block by block. Quite boring and time consuming too!
Here three rows on their wooden sub frame before leveling the upper surface. Next steps will be the abutmen. There I will use slightly rougher ones as there is more water erosion.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkII006_zps0b96706b.jpg)

In the meantime I was working again on the color of the sandsone on some surplus items. No progress at all - my attempts just didn't look right! ??? I never tried the hairspray technique. May be I should give it a try. 
Oh yes, it seems that I need some help and input indeed.

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on January 19, 2013, 02:09:49 PM
That looks great so far!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Malachi Constant on January 21, 2013, 06:33:21 AM
Well, it may be a lot of work, but it sure looks GOOD!  -- Dallas


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on January 21, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
Well, I think it looks beautiful. There is nothing I acn critique here. Looks like a perfect match to the real thing.

Though time consuming and boring, I think the "reality" has caused you to get even better results. The rework you are having to do is giving you just the right amount of randomness, and "constructed" feel, that mimmicks real life.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on January 23, 2013, 08:50:43 AM
Hi Dallas and Marc

Thank you for your comment. As you will certainly have noticed, I am rather clueless as for painting and weathering sandsone in that scale. I have absolut NO concept even how to start ... ??? ??? ???

Though there are some incredible discussions in this forum, such as your approach in replicating color and texture of slime/algae at the bottom areas of pilings in Salt Marshes or your salt marsh walkway. I am soaking up such threads like a sponge, but I have to accept that I'm light-years away (yet  ;)) from  the standart you have here in that forum. This should not mean, that I am embarassed about my own modelling skills but rather I am pleased of being allowed to participiate in a discourse of such a level. Thanks!

(It's hard to express myself properly in English)

Peter




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 26, 2013, 02:31:36 PM

After checking all my references again and again the question came up whether stone walls (such as those pylons I am working on) generally were masoned to the core or whether they have some sort of filling as in this picture.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Brueckenpfeiler_zps659f7892.jpg)

First I was planning to fill in the upper side of my pylon in this way (sketch below), but now I am no longer sure about this, and unfortunately there are no photos from the upper surface.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Moserdamm_plan_zps1befd0b4.jpg)

Any experts out there?

Thanks, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 1-32 on February 26, 2013, 07:58:29 PM
hi peter
what do you mean by filling in the upper levels.
what i see in the picture is the sandstone as a veneer-that it is the dressing for the concrete core.all the strength is in the concrete-steel,bolts.
kind regards kim


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on February 27, 2013, 03:59:03 AM
The photo sees to be a newer version, done to try and replicate some of the feel of the old (but IMO failing) Any chance you can look at pilings for similar scale constrctions along the Aare, from a similar time period, and see how they were done?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 27, 2013, 12:22:38 PM
Thanks, Marc and Kim for your answers and the helpful hint!

@Marc

The hardest thing to see is what is in front of your eyes.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe



Barely twenty minutes from my home is the beautiful Hemishofen Railway bridge, built in 1875!
Today I took my camera, jumped in my car and here the answer:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Hemishofen_zps8d5e9cba.jpg)

The bridge is built on sandstone-clad concrete plinths (also on the upper side). Moreover, the photo shows very clear texture of moss on the upper and slime/algae build-up at and bottom areas...

I think I will go that way ...

Cheers, Peter




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 13, 2013, 01:08:46 PM

Well, it's quite a long time without updating this post. But I haven't been inactive all the time. I was casting further blocks of sandstone and sanded each of them into line. Now I have finished the foundation at least. 
Furthermore I was roamig around and took a look at some similar constructions along the Rhine from the same time period to see how they were done (Thanks for the hint, Marc!).

Here my interpretation of the pattern on the upper side. Hope this is halfway realistic ... :-\
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkII010_zps5b3390cc.jpg) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkII010_zps5b3390cc.jpg.html)


As a next step I would like to do a slilcone rubber mold from this master to cast one or two examples for painting trials.

Regards, Peter






Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 13, 2013, 09:21:17 PM
That looks terrific! Very well done!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on April 17, 2013, 02:44:29 PM
I think it looks great. Only question...if I am going to be really critical....is that first stone up from the corner, in the top row, on the right side.....at this scale, it seems to stick out a bit far.   :)

Like I said...I am being hyper critical...and only so, because youhave spent so much time on the stone finish, to keep it all "in scale".

...and it is not as if I could do any better. :)

Marc :)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on April 20, 2013, 01:54:37 PM
Peter,

it looks very good. I would start painting on it without making molds. You would get a monochrome cast which isn't representative concerning what you've shown us here.

If you start with very dilute water color you won't destroy anything. It always takes a lot of coats to get the desired darkness, but it looks very real. Working wet in wet you can achieve nearly invisible transitions between different colors. Please wait until it's dry after your first steps as things get much brighter when they're drying.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on May 02, 2013, 01:55:32 PM
Meanwhile I did some trials in Marc Reussers "Hairspray/Windex-Methode". What I want to try is replicating the color and texture of an aged sandstone wall.

As a first step I made a slilcone rubber mold from quick glued stones and casted some examples for painting trials... but this was useless.

I would start painting on it without making molds. You would get a monochrome cast which isn't representative concerning what you've shown us here.
Volker

Volker, you were right. On the cast examples all looked monochrome and somehow bromidic. This first test sample here looks a little more real to me although it was "random chance" :-\.


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIII003_zpsca1a0d43.jpg) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIII003_zpsca1a0d43.jpg.html)


What I did until now:

1. Heavily diluted mixture of Tamiya olive/gray/black here and there, mainly in the darker top row
2. Clear coat with Future
3. Hairspray from can
4. Tamiya tinned mixture of gray/white/sand more or less everywhere
5. 30 minutes drying time
6  Windows cleaner shots to wipe away some color (Hahaha: Some color ... most of it came off, even most of the Future!!!)

I am not so sure about the result. So I hope with some further washes and detailing (e.g. lichen patches, ...) it will become more contrasty.

Please tell me, what do you think ....and yes, I do enjoy critical response too... to achieve higher grounds ... ! 


Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on May 04, 2013, 08:01:31 AM

... and with washes and some lichen patches just to try out.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIII006_zpsf2a938d6.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIII006_zpsf2a938d6.jpg.html)     


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on May 04, 2013, 08:50:12 AM
Peter,

I would delighted if I could even get close to this ........ Looks very impressive to me.

Think some lichen, moss , etc would just help give it a touch of life so look forward to seeing your next update


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on May 05, 2013, 05:31:18 PM
Peter, really nothing critical I can say about this.

Like Gordon, I would be thrilled to get such a result.....even at a larger scale....and yes, maybe, once the whole thing is done, and set together, some green mossy/lichen in some areas of the grout..and maybe a small weed or vegetation sprouting in a gap in the stones.

Marc


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on May 06, 2013, 12:58:48 AM
Peter,

looks very realistic to me. As Marc said there may be some moss/fern in the joints and lichen at the dry and algae at the humid spots.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on May 06, 2013, 08:16:47 AM
Excellent progress!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 5thwheel on May 06, 2013, 09:17:51 AM
Peter,  This is  great project that I am following with great interest.  In your details don't forget the pigeon and seagull crap on the upper surfaces and running down some of the sides.  I enjoy all that all of you guys are doing. Unfortunately I am not in a place where I can do any of it.

Bill




After checking all my references again and again the question came up whether stone walls (such as those pylons I am working on) generally were masoned to the core or whether they have some sort of filling as in this picture.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Brueckenpfeiler_zps659f7892.jpg)

First I was planning to fill in the upper side of my pylon in this way (sketch below), but now I am no longer sure about this, and unfortunately there are no photos from the upper surface.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Moserdamm_plan_zps1befd0b4.jpg)

Any experts out there?

Thanks, Peter



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on September 30, 2013, 01:00:08 PM
Thought I should do a litte uptdate to my thread - just to show: I am still working on that project  ;)

I have recently completed the basic stonework. Huh, it was more difficult than expected. I had to cast nearly every single stone block from a  seperate mould ... 
So I couldn't ecspect that everything fits perfectly (and it is so...), but I am quite satisfied with the result.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIII012Kl_zps9a537c91.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIII012Kl_zps9a537c91.jpg.html)

In addition here once again some reference pics from a nearby railway bridge as it should finally look:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Klein020_zps898d7c54.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Klein020_zps898d7c54.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Klein013_zps955109c5.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Klein013_zps955109c5.jpg.html)

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on September 30, 2013, 01:09:29 PM
Peter,

Thanks for the fantastic update. I can honestly say that that is the most realistic scale model stone abutment, that I have seen. Simply beautiful.the textures, colors and variation, and the ever so slight offsets/fitting of the stones.......more real than real.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on September 30, 2013, 02:00:51 PM
Perfectly fitting stones would destroy the perfection of your model. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on September 30, 2013, 04:03:22 PM
Beautiful! How many more do you need?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on September 30, 2013, 06:01:48 PM
Ditto what Marc said! That stone work is incredibly realistic.




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Krusty on October 01, 2013, 05:13:37 AM
Yeah. What Marc said.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on October 01, 2013, 06:06:50 AM
Peter,

ditto what Marc and the others said. Now I'm curious how this comes out being weathered.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 01, 2013, 02:53:15 PM
Thanks a lot gents for your kind compliments! Nevertheless I am faced with another problem now: The first sample was "random chance". Now all my seperately casted test samples have been used up without having achieved the same result as shown a post above, and I have to go back to square one (on the subject of painting, of course).

@ Volker
Paintig is definitely not "mein Steckenpferd". I have an awful lot to learn in this area  :-\

@ Marc
Once you wrote me:
Once both layers of HS and paint are on, I load the AB with Windex, and carefully begin to literally blast the paint off. I vary between letting the windex flow, and using only air....working pretty darn close to the surface at about 20 psi. I try to keep moving, and not stay in one spot too long, because it can eventually wear through the clear and finish, down to the primer. Some areas, I will try/want to only remove the top layer/color of HS and paint others I go through both layers..

That is precisely the problem: Unfortunately the paint I will remove precisely remains in the deeper areas of the chiseling pattern and it looks like Verlindens Dry Brush Methode ... >:( >:( >:(

@Chuck
I will leave it at this one piece at the speed I am making ...  The entire site included five pillars and a power-house with three tubines.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Zusammenzug_zpsa582a5a2.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Zusammenzug_zpsa582a5a2.png.html)

Cheers,
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 03, 2013, 05:47:12 AM
Some more trials of this morning. The one on the right is the new one. I tryed to do a darker one for the moistured non-sunny side of the abutement. I also tried adding some moss in one corner.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/PaintTrials009_zps53573930.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/PaintTrials009_zps53573930.jpg.html)

But ... it isn't exactly what I tried to create. All looks too well-behaved yet. It seems that if I wouldn't have the courage/ability to do it much distinctively.  :'(




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on October 03, 2013, 02:09:22 PM
Looks pretty damned impressive to me !!!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on October 03, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
I've seen worse. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 03, 2013, 08:13:02 PM
Looks great to me too.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on October 03, 2013, 11:59:25 PM
I think the results look very good.

One question I have, is why are you worrying about painting this now (aside from that it is fun).....I always worry when I see people paint things out of context. By that I mean having the rest of the tower built and at least in the painting process as well, that way you can balance and play the items off each other....otherwise you may have a chance  of over weathering one part, and then being forced to catch up or overcompensate the other parts.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 15, 2013, 07:38:58 AM
Thanks guys, I am encouraged by your responses. No 3 is the last trial. As you may notice too, I receive never the same effect again, althoug I am writing down each step of the process. ???

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/PaintTrials_zps15e6f152.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/PaintTrials_zps15e6f152.jpg.html)

That is, what prevented me from painting the abutement right now.
I hope, i will soon be able to control the process and reproduce each shade precisely,

Btw ...did you know, that such old gearwheels had wooden teeth? Here a great discovery on a weekend trip:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Bauma2013028_zps168865a7.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Bauma2013028_zps168865a7.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Bauma2013030_zps47fc5430.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Bauma2013030_zps47fc5430.jpg.html)


Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: NE Brownstone on October 15, 2013, 08:04:17 AM
All three of those stone samples work for me.  Honestly, they all look most real to me and would have thought so if it weren't for you telling us otherwise.  A+

I wonder if they used wood teeth so that they could shear off if something got in a bind?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 29, 2013, 03:15:46 PM
Hello

After some initial hesitations, I have taken heart again and made my first painting attempts on the abutement. Some layers of HS and paint later it looks like this. This is only the first paintig step, more will follow at a later stage (i.e. washes and discoloration due to water, weather, efflorescence etc.)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIV006_zps4034200a.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIV006_zps4034200a.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIV013_zps7cabe91e.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIV013_zps7cabe91e.jpg.html)


But now I returned to the workbench (specifically my desk  :-[) to start with the first master for the pulley supports (?). It's a long way to go, but this is the work I really like!

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIV003_zps3e83f669.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkIV003_zps3e83f669.jpg.html)


Cheers,
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 29, 2013, 04:41:25 PM
Very nice! Is that styrene?



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: EZnKY on October 29, 2013, 04:47:38 PM
I'm impressed you can use "efflorescence" correctly!
The abutment looks great by the way.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 29, 2013, 10:19:47 PM
...And I learned a new word.   :)



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on October 30, 2013, 12:06:41 AM
Both are really lovely. Always great to see an update.

Very clean styrene work. Did you use putty and a radiused tool to create the cast steel fillet/radius?

I like the spotting and dark streaking on the abutments. What paints did you use?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on October 30, 2013, 02:09:03 AM
Ditto. Even at this relatively unfinished stage the abutment looks far better than most such modeling I've seen. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Max Corey on October 30, 2013, 03:09:14 AM
Very nice.  How did you do the raised lettering on the support casting?

Looking forward to more.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on October 30, 2013, 01:42:38 PM
The stones look absolutely real. I would like to know how you did the lettering, too.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 30, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
Hi gents

Thank you for your interest in my project. Here some answers:

Quote
Did you use putty and a radiused tool to create the cast steel fillet/radius?

That is exactly what I did. Here an "in progres" view from my desk.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchI002_zpscee006c9.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchI002_zpscee006c9.jpg.html)

I used styrene strips shaped around wooden cores. Tamiya putty was used to fill up the corners. This is not without problems, as thick layers of putty can melt the plastic ...

Quote
I like the spotting and dark streaking on the abutments. What paints did you use?

Vallejo colors simply flaked away during the "Windex" chipping process. Tamiya acrylics worked much better, but I had still some problems in controlling the process.

Quote
How did you do the raised lettering on the support casting?

These are Slaters 1.5mm high Plastic Letters & Numerals. The size of these letters went to the outermost limit of my vision. You can probably get them from good railway modellers shops in the UK.

 ;) Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 21, 2013, 01:51:35 PM
Trying to follow Arno's tracks  - a master for the bearing blocks.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Lager1_zpsc5c3a14e.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Lager1_zpsc5c3a14e.jpg.html)
 
Ok, ok,  you surely have noticed I currently have to enjoy the little things in life, now that one of the bigger challenges in this project have failed after several attempts up to now:  
Although I have quite some experience in kit-bashing and scratch scratch-building since more then 30 years - I am now confronted with a problem I have no solution in sight.
Here the problem child:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Rad_klein_zps744eeb06.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Rad_klein_zps744eeb06.png.html)
Diameter in scale 1/50 = 9 cm

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Radreifen_Schnitt_zps180240f1.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Radreifen_Schnitt_zps180240f1.jpg.html)
cross-section of the rim

I made repeated attempts to form this difficult shape of the outher rim out of a styrene disc clamped in a slow moving drill  - it simply melted under the cutting-tool. Needless to say that the result was far away of the desired precision either.

Maybe I have to mention, that I do not own either a late, nor a milling machine ... my desk is my workbench (Cheers, Arno  ;))

A good idea is needed now ....





Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on November 21, 2013, 02:57:56 PM
Now that is an interesting and challenging shape.

Completely theoretical idea coming up ........ Why not try it the same way the original was probably made , a mould made in casting sand. Only in your case a mould made out of an expoxy putty,  Milliput or similar.

Looking at your first drawing , wheel appears in to be two halves bolted together, so that's a help to start. Then if you split your cross section vertically then you only have to make a mould for one half of a half of a wheel , I know there is a better way of describing this but I can't think of it now, and cast in resin 4 copies..

I would first of all glue on to some plastic card two strips forming the outer and inner diameter of the rim , these strips will in the shape of a semi-circle. Leave these to harden and cut, say from brass the the external profile of one half of the rim ( the cross section halved vertically) attach the brass profile to a rod ...... This rod should fit into the axle hole the correct distance away from the two plastic strips. Fill the space between the strips with epoxy putty, if you use Milliput you soften it down with some water ..... Then turn rod/ profile piece around to form the shape of the rim.

When hardened off remove plastic strips and build the spokes from axle hole out to rim , you can use more Milliput to blend the end of the spoke into rim, a silicone mould from this and cast up 4 copies in resin. Clean up and glue together then sand true by spinning in your drill.

This would still leave you having to form the inner groove for the pulley, not sorted that bit out in my head yet.

As I said completely theoretical but maybe some of my rambling might help


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on November 21, 2013, 05:24:45 PM
This is where I would use that solution/aproach derided as cheating/non-modeling,........and have it printed in 3D.

Marc


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on November 21, 2013, 11:56:07 PM
Peter, do you have another view of that wheel. like how the spokes join the rim?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on November 22, 2013, 02:10:42 AM
Hate to admit that he is right , but Marc's solution re 3d printing is the obvious way to go ......... My ramblings were "so last century"  ;D


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Arno Boudoiron on November 22, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
Ouch! ;) Challenging work!  ;D
I have a dummy question: do the pulleys have to turn?
How many pulleys do you need for your project?

I noticed: According to the pictures there are 10 spokes, but 6 on the original drawing. Am I wrong?

Awesome work
Cheers Peter

A.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 22, 2013, 12:00:06 PM
Hi gents

It is quite incredible how much assistance I am given from this community! Even support in 3d printing was offered from a member...  I am overwhelmed! Thanks a lot!

@Gordon and Marc
You are certainly right, that 3d printing is the obvious way to go ... and it would surely give an excellent result. Unfortunately I have no experience in that technologie up to now.
 
Gordon, your ideas aren't "so last century" especially in relation to what I am able to do on my desk. So thank you very much for your "ramblings", they helped a lot and provided a fresh impetus to my work: Why not trying it the same way the original was probably made! Yeah, that is it, and it's clear now: I do not have to do the full circle... This doesn't make it too much easier, but it is a new approach I will follow!

@Arno
I have a dummy question: do the pulleys have to turn?
How many pulleys do you need for your project?
I noticed: According to the pictures there are 10 spokes, but 6 on the original drawing. Am I wrong?

1) The pulleys (I need two of them) won't turn - this will be a static model
2) It is almost shameful that I hadn't noticed that until now. You are right: On the original drawing there are only six spokes; in the picture there are always ten. I don't understand how this could happen. I looked at the photos surely a  thousend times ...  ??? ??? ???
Thanks, Arno, you saved my day!

@Chuck
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Turbinenhaus_1_zpsc0509719.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Turbinenhaus_1_zpsc0509719.jpg.html)

As I notice now the shape of the outher rim isn't exact the same as in the factory drawings too. I urgently have to redo my sketches!!!   

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on December 17, 2013, 06:37:28 AM

Hate to admit that he is right , but Marc's solution re 3d printing is the obvious way to go.

As I wrote before I have no experience in that technologie up to now, nevertheless the problem was solved in this way sooner than expected...

After several attempts I had to admit, that there was no reasonable solution in Styrene to this problem (too weak). Therefore I was very happy to accept Volkers grateful offer to do the 3d data model for me, so to speak as a Christmas present :-)
Thanks a lot Volker!!!

Yesterday I received the result from Shapeways. Very clean print!

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/TransmissionsradI006_zps80fd4d47.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/TransmissionsradI006_zps80fd4d47.jpg.html)


Cheers, Peter



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on December 17, 2013, 09:45:55 AM
Great result. The whole thing is coming together rather well


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Arno Boudoiron on December 17, 2013, 09:55:44 AM
Nice!  8)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on December 17, 2013, 11:07:58 AM
Looks great!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on December 17, 2013, 12:10:42 PM
Very nice! I could not imagine scratchbuilding two of those.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on December 17, 2013, 01:54:29 PM
Shapeways to the rescue again. Excellent! -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on December 17, 2013, 03:43:18 PM
Hello Volker and Peter,

that is successful teamwork.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on December 17, 2013, 04:02:51 PM
That is nearly true, but Volker himself is the team  ;)  All I could contribute was a drawing and some mesurements!

BTW: He created that virtually overnight - I could hardly believe it!




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on December 17, 2013, 05:08:23 PM
That is neat!
Will it be used "as-is" or will it be cast in brass?
The reason I ask is you said the styrene was not strong enough.
-Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: marc_reusser on December 18, 2013, 12:24:46 AM
Simply lovely.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Max Corey on December 18, 2013, 04:51:07 AM
Very nice.  Interesting technology I know very little about.  Only way I would have otherwise thought to make those would be to either cast them in aluminum or machine them with the CNC mill at Kalamazoo Industries, both some work.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on December 18, 2013, 09:00:19 AM
Will it be used "as-is" or will it be cast in brass?
The reason I ask is you said the styrene was not strong enough.
-Marty

Hi Marty
I do not have any experience in such material yet, but I intend to use it "as-is". I meant, the styrene wasn't strong enough to work on with saw and file and without Volkers help I would have had to change to brass. But without lathe or milling machine that would have been a huge challenge ...

May I also take this opportunity of asking you where do you get the brass bevel gears on your breathtaking Shay (a feast for the eyes!!!)?

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on December 18, 2013, 09:27:02 AM
Thanks Peter!
I am enjoying your stone lessons, hoping to use what you have taught me!

Gears, pulleys, and all sorts of wonderful parts can be found here;
http://www.sdp-si.com/ (http://www.sdp-si.com/)

-Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on December 18, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
That is nearly true, but Volker himself is the team  ;)  All I could contribute was a drawing and some mesurements!

BTW: He created that virtually overnight - I could hardly believe it!

Hello Peter,

on the image of the base and the side frames of you to see.
Yes, the parts of you have become excellent, so I saw it as teamwork.
I was already clear that the wheels are just like my lamp housing alone by Volker.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 04, 2014, 09:23:43 AM
Hello gents

Martys wonderful Shay in mind I moved to brass for my recent attempts too, as the cast parts for the bearings have really unconventional shapes.  Here some in-progress pics ...

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIII005_zpsbe781a2f.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIII005_zpsbe781a2f.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIII003_zps8e034db7.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIII003_zps8e034db7.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIII004_zps228598f3.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIII004_zps228598f3.jpg.html)


Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 04, 2014, 10:33:44 AM
Nice job on the brass! The whole thing is looking great.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 5thwheel on February 04, 2014, 10:38:03 AM
Very nice metal work.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on February 04, 2014, 12:41:29 PM
Very clean work. I especially like the strange shaped item. How did you achieve the shapes?

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Malachi Constant on February 04, 2014, 01:25:31 PM
The stonework and the new details look fantastic!  -- Dallas


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on February 04, 2014, 01:32:01 PM
Satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on February 05, 2014, 06:58:31 PM
WOWZERS!
The soldering looks like tine weld fillets!
I have no idea what we are looking at but they sure are nice.
Kind of reminds me of some sort of waterfall art.

-Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 06, 2014, 10:22:50 AM
Very clean work. I especially like the strange shaped item. How did you achieve the shapes?
Volker

Hi Volker
It is brass cut from Tamiya Masking Tape patterns, hammered over a wooden form:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIII006_zps325ffb59.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIII006_zps325ffb59.jpg.html)

WOWZERS!
The soldering looks like tine weld fillets!
I have no idea what we are looking at but they sure are nice.
Kind of reminds me of some sort of waterfall art.
-Marty

Thanks Marty
The traces of hand-made work have to disappear, as these "balconies" were, in fact, cast-iron fittings supporting the bearings of the vertical shafts and their bevel gears (see photo below). I will have to round off sharp edges and corners with some sort of putty.
I do not know exactly what type of putty will work on brass ???

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler4_3B_zps2fb62fc2.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler4_3B_zps2fb62fc2.jpg.html)

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 5thwheel on February 06, 2014, 11:51:30 AM
Peter,

A smal jeweler's file should work for rounding off the edges and corners. 
To give a cast iron look give them a very light , orange peel finish followed by a very light spray from at least 18" away.  Allow to dry some then repeat the light spray. This will build up in tiney spots that look like a casting. For aged bare casting look use alternate red (brown) primer and black (charcoal) primer then follow the rusting methods used on this forum.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on February 11, 2014, 11:29:05 PM
Nice metal work!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on February 12, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
Quote
I do not know exactly what type of putty will work on brass ???

Hello Peter, I would take 2K cream body filler. (Autospachtel)



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Juke Joint on February 15, 2014, 08:08:14 PM
"world class modeling and world class forum"

blown away!

nuff said!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 15, 2014, 07:54:16 AM
Some weeks ago, at least I received some better scans from the local archive. The first enjoyment has been quickly followed by some disillusionment: my interpretation of some of the details (e.g. the cast parts for the bearings) do not match exactly. How much time I had put in this work...  :( :( :(

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/TransmissionPfeilerIVum1890_Muumlhlenstrasse025_zps38f07da2.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/TransmissionPfeilerIVum1890_Muumlhlenstrasse025_zps38f07da2.jpg.html)


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Transmission_Muumlhlenstrasse027_zps796ab08c.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Transmission_Muumlhlenstrasse027_zps796ab08c.jpg.html)




But I did not hang my head, focused in the meantime on one of the large gear wheels a an exercise how to do all the other bevel gears.

Here some pics:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/2014_02043_zps03cfc596.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/2014_02043_zps03cfc596.jpg.html)


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/2014_02047_zps7af3ec67.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/2014_02047_zps7af3ec67.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIV004_zpsfdb71c73.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIV004_zpsfdb71c73.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIV003_zps8cb14119.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIV003_zps8cb14119.jpg.html)

Hope to show some casting results soon!
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on April 15, 2014, 12:22:51 PM
Don't worry about the mechanical "imperfections". The rest of the model is so perfect none of us will notice them. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 15, 2014, 02:40:30 PM
How big is that gear? How did you cut the slots for the teeth?



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hauk on April 15, 2014, 04:17:09 PM
Excellent modelling and a truly original subject!
I am really enjoying this thread.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on April 18, 2014, 06:07:53 AM
Very interesting approach. Are you going to make white metal or resine castings?


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Transmission_Muumlhlenstrasse027_zps796ab08c.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Transmission_Muumlhlenstrasse027_zps796ab08c.jpg.html)

Seems they changed from inserted wooden teeth to complete steel wheels in this picture.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 18, 2014, 10:34:57 AM
Hi Volker

You have a very good eye for details and you are right: There were two different types of bevel gears.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Detail11_zps59903e2e.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Detail11_zps59903e2e.jpg.html)
early stage

In this picture of the installation in the early days, the two large gear wheels have broad wooden teeth, while in the picture below they have become narrower.



(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Detail2_zps28fd9f2b.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Detail2_zps28fd9f2b.jpg.html)
later stage

The smaller gears on the left side are most likely steel wheels although at least one seems to have inserted wooden teeth in the late stage (only slightly recognizable by the tooth necks on the inner side of the rim ->) But this does not make any sense to me ... Normally one bevel gear had metal teeth, the other wooden ones. If a problem happened that suddenly stopped the installation, the wooden teeth would sheer off.  The wooden teeth were easy to replace and were thus sacrificial.

Here a recent photo of my casting attempts. The master proved too complicated with its undercuts for casting in a standard way. So I had to fill up both mold halves with resin first and put them togheter shortly afterwards. Surprisingly this method wasn't too bad. Ok, there are some air bubbles (red circles) and a thin skin of resin. But I think/hope this can be fixed easily. :-\

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIV008_zpsb889a61a.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIV008_zpsb889a61a.jpg.html)


Thanks all for viewing,
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 19, 2014, 12:47:12 AM
... or does all that even lead to the conclusion that gearwheels with rim-wide teeth are all-steel constructions and those with shorter ones have wooden teeth? ??? ??? ???



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on April 19, 2014, 01:28:42 AM
At least that is what I did try to say :-X. Imho stability of wooden teeth would decrease seriously if only a part of them was sticking in the bracket. The combination of wooden and steel bevel gears would make sense to me. And so does the exclusive use of steel wheels in an later era when they reached higher wear resistance.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 19, 2014, 01:45:33 AM
I can agree in principle. What complicates matters is the fact, that the picture with the all-steel wheels is from the earlyer stage of this installation.  :-\


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on April 19, 2014, 03:11:21 AM
I see. It's going to be complicated. Maybe they went back to old fashioned technology from bad experience? This is why I tend to build what I see, not what theory tells me to do :).

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: glaskasten on April 19, 2014, 07:04:53 AM
This is an intersting thread.  This old technology is an intersting method of tranmiting power prior to electricity.  I did a short search and form some more information.

In the following picture,  the cable wheels appear to be connected by a differential.  This is interesting.  Only one cable would be required to transmit power.  Perhaps the second cable is  for redundancy or transmitting  more force than capable with one.    But why the differential.  The differential is not shown in all your pictures.  Was the differential on all of the towers? 


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler4_3_zps103a8e03.jpg)

The information on the wooden tooth gears is interesting.  Do  you know if these were profiled?


More information was found here. 
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/03/the-mechanical-transmission-of-power-3-wire-ropes.html

Best Regards

Paul


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 19, 2014, 07:43:57 AM
Thanks Volker for your thoughts. I can only agree here and I had to learn this several times. On the other hand we must try to analyze the construction principles at that time. As soon as this is the case, we see things in a different way or suddenly discover details we would never have seen previously. So I had to learn first, how early airplains were constructed before I was able to start a reasonably accurate scale model. Far too often one important part is missing on a picture or is hidden by some people in the foreground.  Then you have to interpret the missing item based on your knowledge.
I do not wish to offend anybody, but I am convinced that e.g. an aircraft modeler is going to be an really good modelshipbuilder after at least five to ten years.  ::)

Ok! Back to the workbench and restart once again...

@Paul

Here the original article:
Die gleichmässige Übertragung der abzugebenden Kraft an die Drahtseile des Doppelseiltriebes gewährleisten Differential-Kegelrad-Kupplungen.
(The uniform transfer of power to be delivered to the wires of the double rope drive ensure differential-bevel-tip lungs.)

The differential was there to ensure equal power transmission of the double wire drive. May be later it was no longer considered necessary and had been removed.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on April 19, 2014, 09:10:03 AM
[...] On the other hand we must try to analyze the construction principles at that time. As soon as this is the case, we see things in a different way or suddenly discover details we would never have seen previously. So I had to learn first, how early airplains were constructed before I was able to start a reasonably accurate scale model. Far too often one important part is missing on a picture or is hidden by some people in the foreground.  Then you have to interpret the missing item based on your knowledge. [...]

I didn't mean negotiation of technical knowledge and historical context, of course. At Buntbahn we had some, err, interesting discussions about bended metal strips of a locomotive radiator grill, which have to have an inner radius of material thickness. Have to. But don't have, when you look closely at the chosen prototype. That's what I meant.

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 19, 2014, 01:38:51 PM
Thanks gents for your interest in my thread.

Volker,
I understood your message, but I did not express myself well. Sometimes just the right words and phrases are missing, to make clear what one wants to say.

This is why I tend to build what I see, not what theory tells me to do :).
Volker

..or in other words: Always mistrust captions! ;)

The other statement refered to a problem which I have encountered throughout all my previous projects. I do not know why, but I've always been attracted by modelling subjects that little is known up to now and it takes a lot of time and a lot of trial and error to gain useful insights at the end.

The differential is not shown in all your pictures.  Was the differential on all of the towers? 
Paul

There were a total of two differentials on the entire system; one for each cabel section: one in the turbine house on the left river bank and one on "my" tower No IV.
Research is very difficult because of the scarcity of information and the different construction stages over the years.


Here a small overview:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/1870_zpse0c03092.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/1870_zpse0c03092.jpg.html)
around 1870

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/1898_zps0b650aa6.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/1898_zps0b650aa6.jpg.html)
1898

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/1899_zpsea607bab.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/1899_zpsea607bab.jpg.html)
1899

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 22, 2014, 02:01:18 PM
Bingo! The world looks totally different again...


So to speak as a consolation for all my modelling madness in the last few days I was given a really good scan of "my" tower no. IV today. It's the only detail picture known so far taken from the opposite side of the river!

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Rheinstrasse_zpsa67ebeef.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Rheinstrasse_zpsa67ebeef.jpg.html)

Although the tower is partly derelict (late 1898)  many details are clearly visible even under poor light conditions and great distance, e.g. the gears with wooden teeth (a), the all steel gear (b) and - of particular interest for me - the nuts, bolts on cast iron washers, which hold the cast iron "balconies" on the opposite side (c and d).

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Rheinstrasse2_zps77136217.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Rheinstrasse2_zps77136217.jpg.html)

I only wonder why they aren't at the same level (c/d)? But this is almost a philosophical question.

Cheers, Peter




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 18, 2014, 05:57:20 AM
Ok, it's hot outside and I am not in the mood for modelling at the moment. Furthermore from the modelling point of view everything failed in the past weeks. (???)


In order to get through the so called summer hole I went back to my painting trials as change of scenery.

Here some washes later. These are some dark ones, rusty washes will follow later, as I am intended to take only a few small steps at a time. In the few original pics, the whole installation looks quite dirty!

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkVI003_zpsdf072caa.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkVI003_zpsdf072caa.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkVI002_zps21b7c1fb.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/MauerwerkVI002_zps21b7c1fb.jpg.html)

And here some trials to imitate moss and humidity.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/PaintTrials026_zps99504e2d.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/PaintTrials026_zps99504e2d.jpg.html)


Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Stoker on July 18, 2014, 09:41:38 AM
Great job on the stonework, I especially like the moss. The issue of the wooden teeth on some gears is interesting. I do however disagree with the conclusion about the purpose of the wooden gear teeth being sacrificial mechanical overload protection. The idea of using a single shear pin to protect mechanisms goes back centuries and no engineer worth his salt would design something that requires replacing hundreds of precision wooden teeth every time there is a mechanical overload on the system instead of replacing a single shear pin. Just an observation.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on July 18, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
An article in an early issue of the English magazine "Model Engineering Workshop" referred to an early 20th century work in which it stated that prior to the introduction of higher mathematics in the design of gear teeth, it was common to make one gear with wooden teeth as in this example so that only the weaker teeth would wear.  Today you will see a brass or plastic gear introduced into a train of gears to be sacrificed to wear.  As soon as I get the collection out of storage, I'll add the reference.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 18, 2014, 11:23:50 AM
Hello

I found this at: www.newhallmill.org.uk

Gear Wheel with Wooden Teeth

Many visitors to the Mill are surprised to learn that some of the gears transferring the power from the waterwheel to the millstones are fitted with wooden teeth. Millers found that using wooden and metal toothed gears together produced less noise when the mill operated and reduced the wear on the metal toothed gears. It also acted as an additional safety factor as the wooden teeth will break under excessive force.
The teeth, or 'cogs', were usually made from apple, cherry or hornbeam wood, cut to shape before being inserted into the cast iron gear wheel frame. If a tooth became worn or broken, it could be removed and replaced by a new one.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: NE Brownstone on July 18, 2014, 12:00:25 PM
Excellent job on the stonework!
Could the differential gear been for equalizing the torque amongst the two wheels?  It could be for reversing, or supplying a reversed cable.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Stoker on July 18, 2014, 12:10:06 PM
Interesting points about the use of wooden teeth in this type of situation. Being that the original gears appear to have been all been metal, it seems like the noise reduction aspect of using some wooden toothed gears would be the most logical answer as to why the switch was made. Especially when you see that these were in a very populated area. This is my opinion, but to me it seems like the friability aspect of wooden teeth engaged against steel ones would result in increased maintenance and downtime. Protection from catastrophic overload of the mechanism is more of a by product of using wooden teeth , rather than the intended goal in this case, because if this were the intent using a shear pin is obviously the superior method.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 18, 2014, 01:59:35 PM
Thanks gents for your thoughts!

The last pic shows a scrap piece for trials and not the abutement itself. And yes, of course I have to improve is the colour of the moss blotches and the size of the flakes (HEKI Mikrolaub Belaubungsflocken) yet. Maybe a light brownish/yellowish overspray will help ...

Here the real thing - the direction I would like to move: 

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Juli2014067_zps9b60d532.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Juli2014067_zps9b60d532.jpg.html)


Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 18, 2014, 10:51:53 PM
Marvelous work on the weathering and moss.



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 22, 2014, 10:26:10 AM

Here a small update after today's long painting session (I painted the lichen blotches in the upper wall with a small pencil). It's a long way to go yet, but together with one finished support pillar I'am staring to build up a picture of the final appearance now. ::)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/b550723f-8240-4a17-b5df-33107d25516c_zpsb50a91c9.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/b550723f-8240-4a17-b5df-33107d25516c_zpsb50a91c9.jpg.html)

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 24, 2014, 10:48:48 AM
... and here a last update before start on vacation with my family.

Finally was able to finish one of the bigger gear wheels. All my casting attempts led to a dead end and it seems that I have to build up each gear scratch from styrene... huh!
I'm not quite sure if the weathering isn't a little bit overdone (for an installation that is operational after all ...). What do you think?


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/PaintingI017_zps21f2b33e.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/PaintingI017_zps21f2b33e.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on July 24, 2014, 12:37:02 PM
Peter, I think you need to see and continue the design started your work as a whole.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on July 24, 2014, 01:01:37 PM
That is a very good looking gear. I can't really comment on the accuracy of the weathering but the appearance pleases my eye. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on July 24, 2014, 01:25:49 PM
Peter,

the gear looks very impressive! Did you really scratchbuild that completely, even the teeth?

If you need support with the "no go technology" for modelers, I'll again be happy to help  ;). After my vacancies.

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 24, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Thanks volks!

@Volker
Once again, generous offer! Thank you very much. Who knows - maybe some day I will have to get to that point, but I do not hope so ...
At the moment, traditional crafts are sufficient, although building each gear wheel by scratch increases the amount of time significantly! >:(

Here the unpainted gear:   

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIV011_zpsff5b277d.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/ScratchIV011_zpsff5b277d.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 24, 2014, 10:27:12 PM
Splendid work! Except for the background, I would not have guessed it was a model. The weathering looks "right" to me, not too rusty, with plenty of grease. Only thing I wonder is whether the teeth might be a bit more shiny from use?



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: NE Brownstone on July 27, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
I've been around a few greasy wheels and equipment over the years and have to say that you nailed it as far as weathering.  I do agree with Ray about the shiny teeth, but don't over do it.  Just on the faces of contact.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on September 14, 2014, 07:33:18 AM
Hello

Resuming the few available sources, I  found that all the cast supports for the bearings need a complete rework. For reasons of stability, again I chose brass which is not among the best solution for reproducing iron castings in such a small scale.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/BrassI006_zpsdbfa398e.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/BrassI006_zpsdbfa398e.jpg.html)

The parts consist of several layers of brass sheet, formed and finally soldered together, so the soldering tin inevitably serves as filler between the layers.

So far, so good, but now I am playing with thoughts of sandblasting (there is a machine shop just around the corner) the parts as preparation for the base colour.

My question: Wouldn't this remove all the solder and therefore destroy the work  ???

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: chester on September 14, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
I don't think that sand blasting would destroy the solder bond but it may be a bit aggressive  for the finish (too much pitting for the scale). I would experiment with Chuck Doan's method of spraying from a distance to create the texture needed.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on September 14, 2014, 10:32:37 AM
Peter,

if the sand blaster is familiar with modeling items you may give it a try. As well you may simply use a fiber glass pen to roughen the surface a bit and then burnish it. Even cooking in water with detergent helps to get rid of the oily adhesions which usually prevent good burnishing results. Burnishing gives a very good first layer for painting, even water based with washings. I can burnish the parts for you if you don't have the chemicals.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 5thwheel on September 14, 2014, 01:34:28 PM
I use an air eraser. It is essentially an airbrush with larger bore and uses fine grit.  There are also other materials that can be used in sandblaster from corn meal to remove a surface film and would not bother the solder. I have not had any problems with the grit in my air eraser hurting my solder joints.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on September 15, 2014, 01:51:40 PM
Hi gents

Thank you for your inputs. The machine shop I mentioned above is some sort of "open workshop" where you can use the machines for a small fee. I don't know yet what I can expect from the equipment.
@Volker
Thank you anyway. I intend to use the "Weinert Grundierung" as base coat. Seems to be very difficult to airbrush, but - as I read - the adhesion to the surface shall be very good.
@Bill
Looks good that air eraser. Could be a useful instrument for small projects as mine and it isn't as expensive as I assume.  :)

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 5thwheel on September 15, 2014, 06:44:56 PM
Peter, I really use my air eraser for many projects. I find it good for putting as bite in brass before painting.  I use bottled CO2 instead of a compressor. If you so use a compressor then be sure to install a very good air dryer in line.
I am following your work with much admiration.

Bill


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on September 16, 2014, 04:15:35 PM
I've had good luck over the years with Dawn dish washing liquid, followed by a good rinse with distilled water. Then force drying with a hairdryer and only handling the parts with latex gloves.

Several commercial shops near me use Dawn in their metal cleaning operations because as a consumer product, they don't have to treat the waste water before giving it to the sanitation district.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: NE Brownstone on September 23, 2014, 06:50:55 AM
Peter, what an awesome casting looking fabrication.  I've got to start messing around with brass, more.

Yes, Dawn is the ultimate oil and grease killer, short of Varsol, or any other toxic degreaser.  When I worked in the oilfield we used pipe dope that made plumbers pipe dope seem like soap.  This stuff was a mix of goop, slop and sticky and it wouldn't come off with anything short of gasoline, or diesel, except for Dawn.  Dawn ORIGINAL Blue.  The other mixes are useless or not anywhere near as good as Old Blue.  

At the last place I worked we were cleaning out a back lot that had an old wheel barrow that was full of rain water and had a 1/4" slick of oil from an oil can that someone left  in it.  We were at a loss as to what to do, but then I suggested using Dawn to break up the oil up.  Sure enough, the oil broke down and we were able to dump the whole thing.  

Since then I've told my wife to buy only Dawn Blue.  

Hmm, maybe I should do Dawn commercials. ::)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on September 23, 2014, 07:48:59 AM

Hello Peter,,
I beam basically all metal parts with aluminum oxide grain 180 with about 1 bar air pressure.
Then all the parts are immediately blackened with chemistry.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/6264/13P1050315.JPG)
Winds soldered with the cover open and one cent piece.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/6264/13P1050325.JPG)
Meanwhile, the winch is browned and mounted to the sample.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on September 23, 2014, 12:38:03 PM
It's been a very slow couple of weeks on this forum but your progress and the info about Dawn are more interesting then a dozen threads on other forums. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on September 23, 2014, 02:15:06 PM
Beautiful work!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on September 23, 2014, 02:40:58 PM
Hi all

Thank you for your interest and support.

Lawton, using Dawn for metal cleaning sounds very interesting. But I can see hardly a chance to buy it anywhere in Europe ... Who knows more about that?

Russ (and the other Russ), thank you for your positive view of my efforts. I am looking forward to the point, when I can start the diorama background and pour the water. Then I will certainly choose some of your Standard Retaining Wall elements!

Helmut
Tomorrow I will take a look at the machine shop I mentioned above. But I have no idea  what awaits me there! BTW. Looks like the real thing, your winch. What scale is it?


In the meantime production of gear wheels continues - a long and lengthy process :'(

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Styrene1_zps3d4fd7d3.png) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Styrene1_zps3d4fd7d3.png.html)

Styrene forming                       mounting the gear teeth                   shaping and sanding


Oh, I forgot to mentione, that I need only sixteen gear wheels in different sizes ... ;)
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on September 23, 2014, 03:40:24 PM
Hi Peter,

all my works are in scale 1: 22.5.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on September 23, 2014, 09:16:50 PM
Nice gear, Peter! -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on September 23, 2014, 10:28:19 PM
That gear is amazing


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hauk on September 24, 2014, 01:17:03 AM

Hello Peter,,
I beam basically all metal parts with aluminum oxide grain 180 with about 1 bar air pressure.
Then all the parts are immediately blackened with chemistry.


Pretty nice work as usual!

What brand of blackening fluid do you use? It is getting more and more difficult (almost impossible, in fact) to order my dear Casey Birchwood fluids from the US or the UK.
So i am looking for other brands that might be availble locally.

Could also ve nice to know what the "real" purpose for your blackening medium is. Maybe I then could find something similiar.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on September 24, 2014, 05:53:41 AM
Hello Hauk,

thank you, yes I always try to just do my best.

The chemistry that I use to blacken is commercial and not available anywhere.
I have received a detailed work instruction with safety instruction and had satisfied none of the chemicals to pass.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: jim s-w on September 24, 2014, 06:12:52 AM
Hi Hauk

Carrs do metal blackening fluid but I've not tried it.  You can get it from C&L finescale in the UK

Edit, my local gun shop stocks gun blue, http://www.brierleyguns.com/cgi-bin/ss000055.pl?page=search&PR=-1&TB=A&SS=Gun+blue&ACTION=Go%21

HTH

Jim


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on September 24, 2014, 06:43:00 AM
Please consider the steel and non-ferrous metals require completely different chemistry.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hauk on September 24, 2014, 07:12:24 AM
Hi Hauk

Carrs do metal blackening fluid but I've not tried it.  You can get it from C&L finescale in the UK

Edit, my local gun shop stocks gun blue, http://www.brierleyguns.com/cgi-bin/ss000055.pl?page=search&PR=-1&TB=A&SS=Gun+blue&ACTION=Go%21

HTH

Jim

Thanks Jim!
In fact, Birchwood Casey is my prefered poison, but it is impossible to order it from the UK due to the restictions on what you can ship by air. It used to be possible to order it from Eileens Emporium, but no more. I have found a Swedish gunshop that sells the stuff, and have tried to place an order. With a little luck, they will ship it...


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on September 25, 2014, 06:15:59 PM
Peter, those bearing supports and that gear are wonderful! And Helmut's winch, I really admire you guys who can fabricate things so well.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 27, 2015, 12:02:50 PM
All the followers of this thread might remember that I was a litte bit fed up with my gear wheel production. This is precisely what happened and so I had to stop for a rest. And so the temptation to create some commissioned work for a aftermarket model company seemed to come along just at the right time. Suddenly I found myself torn between a new challenge and the long and lengthy gear wheel production.
While doing a lot of reasearching for the new work I had to realize, that the effort for this would be much too high. So I cancelled it after more then a half year and returned to my currend project and ...

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/www/Hedi%202_zpsxmbqvzbi.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/www/Hedi%202_zpsxmbqvzbi.png.html)


... my gear wheel production. This is the current status (9 of 16!!!).
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20V%20007_zpsqyfokjvu.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20V%20007_zpsqyfokjvu.jpg.html)

And the gear theeth fit very well although I have no machinery to work with  :)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20V%20012_zpsyxvd9be4.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20V%20012_zpsyxvd9be4.jpg.html)


The gear wheels of that differential are a particular challenge. My third attempt:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Differenzial_zpsix5r4qkl.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Differenzial_zpsix5r4qkl.jpg.html)

Hope you like it!
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on July 27, 2015, 01:11:14 PM
The gears look most satisfactory. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on July 27, 2015, 09:52:59 PM
They look excellent Peter! Your over half way there! Zen gearwork.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on August 02, 2015, 12:03:47 AM
Incredible work on those gears! Hard to tell they are handmade and not machined or printed.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Sami on August 10, 2015, 09:54:37 AM
Very nice weathering Peter !


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 22, 2015, 04:29:01 AM
Thanks for your comments!
And it works - these pictures show a first mounting without axle bearings. Surprisingly, the differential gears even could be moved as the teeth interlock not so bad.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Styrene%20II%20004_zpsgqei1wns.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Styrene%20II%20004_zpsgqei1wns.jpg.html)

I decided to fix the cast pillars prototypically: Threaded brass rods of 1.3 mm diameter are glued in deep boreholes in the abutement. Of course the bolts and rods have to be blackened in a next step.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Styrene%20II%20001_zpsieepwsr2.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Styrene%20II%20001_zpsieepwsr2.jpg.html)

Yes, I am taking just small steps forward, but modelling is fun again  ;D

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on August 22, 2015, 05:33:10 AM
Peter, It's great to see you back modeling on this project again. Even the smallest steps are done so well.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on August 22, 2015, 12:32:30 PM
Coming along nicely. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on August 22, 2015, 02:04:40 PM
Peter just a great, interesting project for me, please report on.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on August 22, 2015, 06:50:05 PM
Great work!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Barney on August 23, 2015, 08:16:35 AM
I agree with all - just mind blowing
Barney


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on August 24, 2015, 09:08:17 AM
Peter,

always a pleasure to follow your posts. As the others said - mindblowing handcrafted modeling. How coarse the printed parts' surface looks beneath your hand made items ... I do admire your patience with modeling and the results are fantastic from shape to coloring.

How did you make those gear wheels, especially the sloped differential ones?

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 25, 2015, 01:42:47 PM

How did you make those gear wheels, especially the sloped differential ones?

Volker

That's a tedious and time consuming process, as I do not own a lathe or such equipment (unfortunately). My old drilling machine is my lathe and the major challenge is to cut out exactly the right cone sector with the corresponding diameters (i.e. 8.5 mm).

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Differential_gear_1_zpsgizmvqdq.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Differential_gear_1_zpsgizmvqdq.png.html)
The sloped back of this gear wheels is made up of several layers of plastic sheet discs, shaped to the desired form with a sharpe knife blade and sandpaper and ... Tamiya putty.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Differenzial%203_zpsmknkugvf.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Differenzial%203_zpsmknkugvf.png.html)

Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on August 26, 2015, 12:33:35 AM
Peter,

how about the cogs? How did you make them? Wrought material with spacers of same diameter? Did you chose the cone's diameter according to the wrought material / i.e. number of cogs required?

Thanks,
Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 26, 2015, 10:56:37 AM
Hello Volker

It isn't as complicated and professional as it seems. First step is to positioning the cogs (in this case Slaters .040 x .040" strips) with a drawing underneath on about 1/4 of the cone with the help of spacers of same diameter. This is also done on the opposite side of the cone. Then I filled the the spaces between those cogs with the same strips and covered that section with Tamiya tape. It is important that the tape should be firmly rubbed an those loose strips. After removing it there is a conic section of cogs on your tape and can easily placed and glued where desired. If the space is slightly wider than calculated you can stretch the tape carefully to make it fit.

Not easy to explain, but I hope you understand. ???
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on August 26, 2015, 11:52:28 AM
Basic modeling techniques with outstanding results. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on September 30, 2015, 03:56:31 AM
I've just visited Dave Fishers thread on his SP Narrow Gauge #18. That's what modelmaking is!
After having surpassed the first shock to some extent, I nevertheless decided that I will not throw my own project in the trash... ;D I will move forward courageously and try to improve my skills step by step  >:(
More and more I am suffering from the complexity of the whole arrangement. As there are no plans I have to work from the few contemporary photos. All components need to be checked repeatedly and, where necessary, adjusted after every step, after every new created part.

Here the current status of the project. All parts are still loose fit!

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20V%20025_zpsbn3fsnn4.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20V%20025_zpsbn3fsnn4.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20V%20017_zpsp3jvbcgx.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20V%20017_zpsp3jvbcgx.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on September 30, 2015, 01:26:18 PM
Nothing is wrong with your skills. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on September 30, 2015, 08:16:15 PM
I agree with Russ! This is marvelous work.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: michael mott on October 05, 2015, 11:14:59 AM
Peter I have just spent a couple of hours reading this entire thread, I would agree wholeheartedly that you have demonstrated great skill! your model shows that a great deal can be accomplished with the minimum of tooling. Like others have already mentioned I would be very happy with the results you have achieved on my own work. Thank you for picking this model up again and continuing with your researches on the fascinating project.

Michael


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 24, 2015, 08:17:36 AM
Last weekend I took the time for air-brushing! This is not an easy task, when you don't have an own hobby room. So, in wise foresight I sent my two ladies go shopping in town ...

"What color was the used materials?" With regard to the stone abutement, this question can be answered easily, as the stones had been quarried in nearby southern Germany and there are some original pieces still there.
However, it is more difficult to archieve a coherent picture regarding the colours of the machine components. The sole source that could provide at least some basic indications on colours is a prospectus for the 25th anniversary of the installation from 1890.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Prospekt_zpsuecevnkc.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Prospekt_zpsuecevnkc.png.html)

Thus, obtaining accurate color information was impossible, I listened to my heart and decided for a bluish light green hue. The Farrow&Ball colour chart describes this hue romantically as Oval Room Blue (a typical late 18th, early 19th century colour) - that's what convinced me.
I am very encouraged by my first attempts (In the first picture it looks too bluish - I am a terrible photographer ;D) and I will continue in this direction. Here some pics, before and after some weathering here and there - still too litte rust stains.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20IV%20005_zpseui4heyu.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20IV%20005_zpseui4heyu.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20V%20015_zpsjhsw8kaf.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20V%20015_zpsjhsw8kaf.jpg.html) (http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20IV%20030_zpsc9cgd9nd.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20IV%20030_zpsc9cgd9nd.jpg.html)

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Allan G on November 24, 2015, 10:00:34 AM
Peter; your skills are incredible!!!! I still can't believe you don't have a lathe! I too am glad you're again working on this project. Thank you.....Allan


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on November 24, 2015, 11:57:27 AM
That is so excellent! I too am glad to see more progress.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on November 24, 2015, 12:47:22 PM
The results are beautiful. Try using more lights when you take photos or else shoot outdoors. You may like your photos more. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Scratchman on November 24, 2015, 12:56:35 PM
Very nice modeling! Great Finish over-all and I like the color.

Gordon Birrell

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonbirrell/


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on November 24, 2015, 10:56:50 PM
Looking good!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on November 25, 2015, 01:48:19 AM
Peter,

that's all over fantastic  :o. Your results are absolutely amazing both in scratchbuilding and painting. About color: That's a good choice for sure, but be cautious with the prospectus' coloring. This looks like a lithography, which is a bit elaborate using more than one color and they may simply have colored the machine parts as they did the water. I've rather seen such big gears at ancient mills or so being painted with some kind of tar, which gave a rather durable protection than many of the colors used back then. Considering those parts have been erected close to / in the town they may have been colored, though. Howsoever - for the model the color adds much more than a dull black with grease traces.

Cheers,
Volker



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on November 25, 2015, 06:23:27 AM
Peter, I concour, your heart spoke true with the color. Excellent weathering too.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 25, 2015, 07:49:34 AM
Thanks a lot, gentlemen, for such positive feedback.

About color: That's a good choice for sure, but be cautious with the prospectus' coloring. This looks like a lithography, which is a bit elaborate using more than one color and they may simply have colored the machine parts as they did the water.

Well observed! Indeed the lithography doesn't have much to offer, but it was this image that gave me the idea, that the machine parts could have been painted. Other contemporary  photos  showed a bright hue, especially on the huge transmission wheels. Moreover they aren't as weathered as the gear and axle/bearing components.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler1_1_zpsy9s8kesg.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler1_1_zpsy9s8kesg.jpg.html)

Compared to a smaller but still existing installation in the wider vicinity strengthened me in my decision to choose an bluish-green gray hue.
Here an actual picture taken in Neuthal:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Oktober%202015%20016_zpsh2xbg0vw.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Oktober%202015%20016_zpsh2xbg0vw.jpg.html)



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 05, 2016, 05:07:18 AM
Hi all

I am working on my project mainly during the holidays, when my desk is empty again. So progress is still slow, but this only hampers in relation of not being able to persuade other interesting projects  ::)
I used the time to do some airbrush sessions. All those tiny parts need a lot of attention and time. The result you can see here:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20016%20K_zpsftgshc5z.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20016%20K_zpsftgshc5z.jpg.html)


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20026%20K_zpsdctnv1xi.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20026%20K_zpsdctnv1xi.jpg.html)


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20021%20K_zpsskccdnar.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20021%20K_zpsskccdnar.jpg.html)


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20V%20005_zpshpopa9xu.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20V%20005_zpshpopa9xu.jpg.html)




One big shock after cleaning the huge transmission wheels in acetone. First they sofened and deformed. Fortunaltely I managed to bend back all that with the help of a hairdryer. After drying they had become rather brittle and I had to repair some broken drill holes with superglue and baking soda.  So be careful with your Shapeways products!

Here one of the wheels (Volkers wheels!) after sanding, priming and the first paint coat. It still has to be weathered.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20027%20K_zpsau9xghyd.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20027%20K_zpsau9xghyd.jpg.html)

Cheers,
Peter




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on February 05, 2016, 06:05:12 AM
Peter,

your airbrush sessions seem to have ended successfully! I think aside of the backdrop and the depth of focus in the pictures the parts will pass for 1-1 scale. Sad to hear of your mishap with the printed parts. In a lot of forums people advice to use aceton for cleaning, but meanwhile I rather like to use an ultrasonic cleaner with some lukewarm water and detergent for the same reason you discovered. If I remember right you printed it in FUD; the (new) FXD material is a bit more stable. Glad to see some progress here!

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on February 05, 2016, 06:50:08 AM
Peter, Your painting and weathering look very realistic. Good to hear you could bend everything back into shape after that close call.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Barney on February 05, 2016, 08:37:06 AM
Lovely stuff and very clever technics
Barney


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on February 05, 2016, 01:09:23 PM
Outstanding work, including the repaired part. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 05, 2016, 02:38:03 PM
I really like the look of the faded, worn paint and old, oily metal. Very realistic!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 06, 2016, 03:40:02 AM
Thank you very much for your comments.
Here the current satus: All completed parts installed.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VII%20001_zpsyiar153l.jpg~original)

As a side note: Yes, I know that I am a pretty bad photographer. All shots were made with a magnifying glass in front of my pocket camera.  ;D





Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on February 06, 2016, 06:57:08 AM
That looks really good. I love the scene.
Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on February 06, 2016, 09:08:32 AM
Peter, Your photo looks good to me, and if it's not perfect, then at least one aspect of your modeling is at a mere human level rather than magic. :)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Allan G on February 06, 2016, 09:33:16 AM
Bill's comment is great. Send me that magnifying glass so I can place it in front of my lens. Fantastic craftsmanship!..... Allan


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on February 06, 2016, 01:18:47 PM
Remarkable. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on February 06, 2016, 03:17:21 PM
Beautiful!  I have had only one incident of Acetone warping, but never any serious damage. Glad you fixed it.



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: TRAINS1941 on February 07, 2016, 11:29:37 AM
Excellent work.

Jerry


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on February 07, 2016, 01:45:05 PM
simply unique excellent.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Barney on February 08, 2016, 03:08:06 PM
Lovely colours nice and realistic
Barney


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 1-32 on February 08, 2016, 09:43:57 PM
peter i have always loved your work
cheers kim


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on March 27, 2016, 03:16:50 AM
Just a two quick shots before the whole family arrives for Easter Brunch ...

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VIII%20016%20K_zpsoz5iknb2.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VIII%20016%20K_zpsoz5iknb2.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VIII%20015%20K_zpsargbmsfc.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20VIII%20015%20K_zpsargbmsfc.jpg.html)

Happy Easter!
peter



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: SandiaPaul on March 27, 2016, 06:29:29 AM
Wait those last two pictures are of the real thing right? :) Excellent work!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on March 27, 2016, 08:04:14 AM
Excellent!!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: michael mott on March 27, 2016, 09:21:54 AM
Peter, your photography looks very good,I think you are underestimating your skills in that department, and the last two pictures show even more clearly your outstanding skill as a model maker. I also thought they were the real thing.

Michael


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on March 27, 2016, 12:00:07 PM
Wow, that is amazing work!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on March 27, 2016, 12:59:01 PM
I concur. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on March 27, 2016, 01:14:00 PM
Beautiful! I'm glad to see an update.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on March 27, 2016, 01:52:45 PM
Peter simply a great Easter surprise.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 30, 2016, 01:30:49 PM
Hi there

After a "creative" break for reasons of health, I started with the diorama base. Knowing the exact dimensions is vital for the next steps on my project.
The decisive breakthrough in that question I achieved by studying contemporary city maps. Here an enlarged section of a 1870 map:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Stadtplan%20Detail_zpsfreysk8g.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Stadtplan%20Detail_zpsfreysk8g.jpg.html)

Here the same location in scale 1/50:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Ground%20Work%20I%20009K_zpsvlwrkekh.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Ground%20Work%20I%20009K_zpsvlwrkekh.jpg.html)

The abutement is devided at the waterline. Its underwater areas and the riverbed will be completed exactly up to the water surface (red arrow) as will the future side wall (blue arrow). I hope, NE Brownstone has some useful stonewall in O-Scale...
So the complete underwater block will have the same thickness (2 cm). In this way, I hope to avoid resin creeping up the edges of materials...

More to follow!
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on July 30, 2016, 01:37:56 PM
The diorama base looks like it will be as exacting and well modeled as the rest of the scene. Have you decided on how you will make the water?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 30, 2016, 02:04:36 PM
I have read countless tutorials on epoxy resin water. This seems the way to go, but I have no idea yet, how to simulate water flowing around the pillar at different speeds.
As a consequence there must follow another thin layer on the smooth surface. But what kind of stuff???

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/A%20006K_zpscp0slywe.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/A%20006K_zpscp0slywe.jpg.html)

BTW: Is it possible to sand and polish epoxy resin when dry?



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 1-32 on July 30, 2016, 03:09:33 PM
hi peter.
tricky question.
to me thinking of expoxy resin you have to disturb the surface.polishing wont work as it will destroy the transparent nature  of the resin.what i would do is to get the resin to cure at different rated.
1- pour your 2 part resin.
2- wait till that first stage is hardening, then with a brush apply some of the hardener to the ares that you want distressed  thus creating a rippling affect.
i personally have never tried this approach but it is where i would start .just see where it will end.
kind regards kim


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 1-32 on July 30, 2016, 03:11:08 PM
just another thought dont use a brush use a eye dropper.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 31, 2016, 04:23:52 AM
Hi Kim

I know, you have a lot of experience with epoxy water. So, thank you for your advice!
The question that raises from time to time: Why not Polyesther Resin? The stuff, that is used to poure in insekts and small pieces of jewelry!
It seems to harden glass clear, is sandable and can be polished.
But I haven't found a modeler that used this in his layout.
Is it too difficult, too harmful or can it lead to cracks at bigger surfaces?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on July 31, 2016, 05:14:31 AM
The example of lightly swirling water that you posted reminds me of horizontal surfaces that had resin quickly applied and quickly cured. The slight 'swirling' effect was accidental, though, and not controlled.

Some modelers create wave effects by manipulating the resin surface just as it begins to gel. They use disposable brushes and hair driers. I think it possible to use small fine tools like toothpicks, needles, thin wire instead to gently create swirling patterns in the smooth surface at that point.

Here is a discussion of polyester vs polyurethane. I have used both, but neither in a modeling application. Polyester is definitely sticky and odiferous!  https://www.artmolds.com/polyurethane

A friend unfamiliar with woodworking recently tried using Minwax water based wipe on polyurethane to refinish a table top because it sounded very simple to apply. The product is as thin as water and can be recoated within a couple hours.
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/clear-protective-finishes/wipe-ons/minwax-water-based-wipe-on-poly
The product was applied both with a foam brush and a lint free rag. Even though it was applied very thinly and quickly, the friend reported it began to set faster than he could maintain a wet edge. He also got a few tiny bubbles in places near the edges. He reported that the finish set and cured with a slightly rippled surface like water, some areas did not settle out and level, so they were very slightly raised above the rest when looked at at a low angle with a low angled light source.
That sounds a bit like the effect you are trying for, if it can be controlled.

Just this week a model railroading person I am in contact with used a resin product called Magic Water for the very first time to pour a large HO scale harbor. He made three pours of two full boxes to get the depth he wanted. He liked the results which were a glass smooth surface. He then brushed on  Liquitex acrylic gel to create a slightly rippling surface all over, so it's too late to ask him now what the Magic Water surface looked like when examined up close at a low angle. The Magic water cures relatively slowly which leaves time for manipulating the surface.

I haven't found a description of what kind of resin this product is, only that it was supposedly designed for modeling water, dries crystal clear, won't yellow or crack and can be poured in multiple layers.
http://www.unrealdetails.com/


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on July 31, 2016, 07:33:56 AM
Hi Bill

Thank you very much for your interesting and informative thoughts. Meanwhile I've googled about epoxt resin. It's obviously a science of its own, What I am looking for is a product, that is getting stiff so that I could sand and polish it. Magic water seems to remain slightly flexible - not ideal for this pupose.
Here, what I intend to do after completion of the groundwork:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Neues%20Bild_zpsb4le85th.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Neues%20Bild_zpsb4le85th.png.html)

1. Some layers of epoxy resin up to the upper edge of the woodwork (light blue part).
2. Sanding and polishing of the resin surface (Now, if this is possible at all...).
3. Overcoat of a thin coat (resin/acrylics?) with lightly swirling effects done with a hair drier
   or so (dark blue part).

So I need a base that is stiff enough to be sanded and polished down to an absolute flat surface, before applying the last lyer.

What's about several layers of epoxy resin or acrylic resin floor coatings? Just an additional idea ???



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on July 31, 2016, 09:48:48 AM
What about using a piece of acrylic sheet which is solid to start with?  Since you indicate you are going to top coat it with a material to give the surface its ripples it could be machined to a close fit and polished first. 


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on July 31, 2016, 11:11:29 AM
Peter, If you are going to apply a final thin layer on top of your base layers of water and if the top layer is a different material than the base layers, then you might not want a highly polished base layer in order for the top layer to have better mechanical adherence to it. Also I believe urethanes yellow over time. "Clear" epoxies mostly start out with an amber tint at least

I have read about aircraft modelers who have "fixed" small scratches in a clear styrene canopy by dipping the canopy into "Future" (now Pledge acrylic floor care). They suspend the canopy so the excess acrylic drains off an end. When that dries it looks crystal clear and the scratches have disappeared. I have tried it with small pieces of clear flat styrene cut for window glass and it did give the entire piece a bright, more transparent (if that is possible) appearance. So I do not think you have to polish out all traces of your sanding in order to get a transparent finish.

Lawton's idea of using a piece of clear acrylic sheet for the base layer may be a good solution if there is not a cutaway view of the side of the river. If you consider that option, "cell cast acrylic" is the most optically transparent and it also is harder and machines more cleanly than either "extruded" (the least strong or flat) or "continuous cast" (properties are in between the other two). Cell cast comes in different thickness and in opaque and transparent colors. You might find a source that uses it and get samples to try or even a piece large enough for your diorama.

Here is one more, perhaps impractical ($$$$), but intriguing possibility:
At a model railroad show I saw some excellent architectural models that were laser cut and laser etched into clear cell cast acrylic. The company also made details parts including a laser etched clear acrylic concrete sidewalk. They etched fine cracks and extremely shallow surface irregularities into the sidewalk. So my thought is, what if you drew the swirling pattern of water you want for you bridge abutments and had that laser etched into a piece of cell cast acrylic thick enough to be the water you need. Then you could either perhaps polish the acrylic, which works well and would further enhance the fluid appearance of the surface, or perhaps instead simply coat the etched sheet with a thin layer of "Future" instead of polishing?

Dave Krakow (Vectorcut) is a member of this forum. He hasn't been active in awhile, but he makes amazing laser cut details in laser board. This project might be something he could


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on July 31, 2016, 12:46:22 PM
Epoxy resin can shrink, another reason to think about whether it's your best choice. Don McKenney, a very good modeler, found casting resin “unforgiving”. Instead he "painted the bottom of the pond with acrylic artist’s paints (blues, greens, and browns), then applied a thick layer of Liquitex medium viscosity acrylic gloss medium and varnish. It turned out beautifully. It cleans up with water and produces no toxic vapors or smelly fumes." -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on August 02, 2016, 01:03:20 PM
Peter, IMHO don't go down the epoxy route it yellows , you will never beat it's "creep" factor and is to me just too unforgiving

In this thread http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=2435.45 , about halfway down there is a link to a very fine warship builder and how he does his water ...... Which is As Russ suggested is the Liquitex method.

By using his wave technique of forming them using a the Liquitex medium and then over coating with their  glaze I think you could achieve the results you are looking for  I.e. Paint on the shape of your ripples and tidal patterns then use multiple coats of the glazing medium to smooth out and provide the high gloss you need for water. Not in his class of work but you see in the thread the windblown ripple effect I achieved using his methods

Again it only an opinion but the huge advantage this method has is that you could do the water as a seperate piece shaped to fit around your pillars , rather than the all or nothing approach that a resin  provides, which ever type you use. As you glaze your piece you will get a build up of glaze on the edges but dries to a hard but very slightly flexible finish and is easily trimmed ..... Any slight gapes can be filled after fitting in place with more of the glaze, with the same optical properties it will not show


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on August 02, 2016, 01:09:14 PM
Peter, please accept my apologises ......... Just had a look at the thread I mentioned above and I can see you had already seen it and commented.

Sorry for repeating


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 03, 2016, 02:38:02 AM
Hi Gordon

Thanks for reading my thread and ...there is no need for apolgises. It's a tricky thing and I have the feeling that I am treading water the more I am searching for a satisfying solution.
This link I found recently:

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33880&whichpage=16



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on August 03, 2016, 04:57:03 AM
Peter, The RRL Forum thread you posted is a good example of how a new resin pour will hide any scratches from sanding the previous pour.

Here is a more recent thread from RRL Forums about pouring Magic Water right to the top edge of the border of the scene, then adding ripples with Liquitexhttp://railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40790&whichpage=53
The water pour begins about halfway down this page and runs for several pages before it's topped off with the Liquitex gloss gel.

Both of those examples demonstrate that the Liquitex can work well for surface effects - but I think the effects you seek are less random, overall windblown ripples covering the entire surface and more directional current lines, swells and swirls. The Liquitex should be able to do that too with a bit of practice.

How about this (simpler than the previous off the wall laser etched ripples!) Find or take a photo looking straight down at a pattern of water that you like. Place a piece of clear acrylic sheet on top of the photo and with a small brush "trace" the major lines and patterns directly onto the top of the sheet with the clear Liquitex gel. That will give you the directional flow you want. see how that works and then modify it as needed.

My sense is you are much more comfortable with the high level of precision and control you can apply to constructing the structure, but it is the irregularity and randomness of the transient flow patterns of the water that is holding you back. If that is so, give some method, any method, a test run without any intention of ever using it. Try pouring, swirling with a toothpick, painting with a fine brush, painting with your finger, whatever, and actually see what results you can create :)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 03, 2016, 07:41:29 AM
Thanks for that interesting link. Looks really like a promising approach and the result is very convincing. As both products aren't available at the site I still have some time left to improve the river bed. But I will give them a try!

My sense is you are much more comfortable with the high level of precision and control you can apply to constructing the structure, but it is the irregularity and randomness of the transient flow patterns of the water that is holding you back.

You are right. Creating landscapes isn't my thing at all. Aware of that, I prefered to start with the groundwork at this stage. If it don't work, I can start over again and again as I am used to! (Actually I did the cast supports for the lower bearings for the fourth time...) :-\

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Jura%202016%20002_zpsgldhy5cr.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Jura%202016%20002_zpsgldhy5cr.jpg.html)

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: nk on August 03, 2016, 12:26:54 PM
Hi Peter,
I have used polyester resin...On top of a Plexiglas/perspex base I added layers of resin (be aware that it shrinks a little as it cures) with powdered pigments in the lowest layers because I was modeling dirty canal water. I blew a fan over the curing surface to make ripples and it worked like a dream. I used Future floor polish as a top coat and it looks great at first, but after a year it developed a heavy cracking pattern. I removed the Future with alcohol and cotton wool and applied Golden acrylic medium and everything as been fine since. I used a thicker more viscous Golden acrylics to fill the space between the water and the wall.  I use polyester at work all the time and it can be shaped and polished easily.

Here are some images FYI

This is a top down view of the dirty "water" i.e. the initial layer of polyester and pigments

(http://images41.fotki.com/v1526/photos/6/698387/3635759/DSCN3550-vi.jpg)


How I prepared the "water" separately from the rest of the base. This meant I could cut it to shape and remove the unwanted meniscus at the edge
(http://images108.fotki.com/v371/photos/6/698387/3635759/DSCN3553-vi.jpg)

after installation
(http://images47.fotki.com/v972/photos/6/698387/3635759/DSCN3968-vi.jpg)

(http://images20.fotki.com/v682/photos/6/698387/3635759/DSCN3966-vi.jpg)

(http://images20.fotki.com/v682/photos/6/698387/3635759/DSCN3967-vi.jpg)

I hope that helps.
Narayan



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on August 03, 2016, 12:50:42 PM
Narayan, not to hijack Peter's thread, your canal water looks really good, but I'm curious - how thick was the coating of Future that you said cracked after a year? I have a small stream on my layout that originally had a thin Liquitex gloss medium for the top coat. After ten years or so the water surface looked a little less transparent and less glossy. It wasn't dust. I cleaned it carefully and then applied a very thin coat of Future on top. That restored the watery look. It's been that way now for about two and a half years and I haven't found and cracking or loss of shine. Is that fate yet to come?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: nk on August 03, 2016, 02:59:42 PM
Bill, I think my layer of Future was too thick, and its this that led to the cracking.
NK


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on August 03, 2016, 11:18:17 PM
So no problems with polyester resin yellowing over time?





Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 1-32 on August 04, 2016, 12:07:02 AM
very nice water great bricks
i still think you need a chemical reaction the water in peters picture is very random this can only be modeled by a out of control reaction.do it outside if you worried about the fumes.
i suppose i should tell you i have never done this approach it just strikes me as a possibility.
cheers


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 04, 2016, 10:43:15 AM
First, thank you all for your assistance in this topic. Searching for information on the internet leads to the conclusion, that either of the methods have their advantages and disadvantages.  But my specific case with very shallow water interspersed with lumps of stone and debris at the river banks and river water buttercups (Ranunculus fluitans) rules out one or two approaches right from the start. That means, I have to poure necessarily some sort of liquid around and on top of those debris.

@Narayan
Love your canal and especially you brick wall very, very much. IMHO one of your best dioramas, and a convincing argument for polyester resin. The gently rippled surface is exactly what I am looking for! But ... unfortunately I can't do the water separately from the rest of the base for the reasons I mentioned before. Good to hear, that blowing air over the surface worked so well!

Here again the original:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/IMG_0003_zpsk04hnnft.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/IMG_0003_zpsk04hnnft.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on August 05, 2016, 06:05:42 AM
Bottom line; that brick wall and river looks real to me!
Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on August 05, 2016, 09:28:21 AM
Peter, Here's a post on a forum about making water that has a river with water flowing somewhat like you need

"http://model-railroadhttp://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/25898#comment-234738


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 05, 2016, 12:35:10 PM
Bill, the post titled "I wouldn't call water hard or" shows exactly the surface I would like to archieve!
Many thanks for the link!



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on August 05, 2016, 01:04:17 PM
Peter,

some thoughts to avoid creeping of the resins: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16603 (http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16603).
@ Narayan: Marvellous!

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 15, 2016, 10:05:11 AM
Okay, while waiting for the next spontaneous inspiration for the groundwork I started up research for the next step.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Groundwork%20017_zpsjgdawn6y.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Groundwork%20017_zpsjgdawn6y.jpg.html)




This vertical bevel gear has some sort of clutch release.  I've only this pic and a somewhat blurry sketch. 

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Transmissionspfeiler%20V%20Ausschnitt%201_zpspv42mila.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Transmissionspfeiler%20V%20Ausschnitt%201_zpspv42mila.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Unbenannt-1_zpsfirk8sh3.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Unbenannt-1_zpsfirk8sh3.jpg.html)

Now I'am asking myself, what kind of mechanism is hidden in the outher (red) wheel. It is evident that there must be an mechanism (blue arrow) fixed to the inner gear wheel (yellow) that it can engage in the outer wheel.
Does somebody knows about such mechanisms? ???






Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on October 15, 2016, 03:42:14 PM
Peter, I don't have a clue how that clutch might work, but wonder if you looked at diagrams or plans for clutches for factory machinery or water powered electric generators, or perhaps even large truck transmissions there might be something similar enough that could help you decipher the clutch for your bridge?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on October 17, 2016, 01:26:40 AM
Hello Peter,

I think it will be a clutch. The bevel gear is always running and the shaft upwards has a square on which the clutch plate can be raised and lowered.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on October 17, 2016, 02:01:03 AM
Peter,

for sure this is a clutch. My interpretation: The outer cogged wheel was constantly running. The inner part was movable up and down, which opened and closed the clutch.

I first thought of some kind of centrifugal clutch, but maybe it was simply used to cut power off from the waterwheels. I think in the picture above there are small screws around the outer diameter, which fixed a cover sheet (note the sloped part under the clutch lever above missing in the drawing), so you don't have to model the interior parts. The parts under the blue arrow might be spokes and the clutch might have been separated to service it without demounting all additional parts? Unfortunately the drawing's resolution is to low to recognize anything else.

Cheers,
Volker

 


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 17, 2016, 08:46:21 AM
Thanks for your additional thoughts!

@ Bill
I did a lot of research, but the result was rather poor, only some pics like that. It seems that there is some sort of clutch too, but no idea about it's function.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Cylinderkupplunmg_zpsyailqwza.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Cylinderkupplunmg_zpsyailqwza.png.html)


@Helmut and Volker
I think in the picture above there are small screws around the outer diameter, which fixed a cover sheet (note the sloped part under the clutch lever above missing in the drawing), so you don't have to model the interior parts.

For me, too, it must be aclutch to cut power off from the transmission wheels. And you are right! I did'n't noticed those screws: Maybe, the cover sheet under the clutch lever will hide most if not all of the the interior parts.

My own interpretation: The outer bevel gear was cogged inside as well as outside. It was fixed loose on shaft. The inner wheel was constantly running as it was set in motion by the square or hexagonal part of the shaft. The inner part was movable up and down by a crank wheel also visible in the drawing, and so opened and closed the clutch.

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on October 17, 2016, 12:11:30 PM
I love this forum. Where else can you go to get answers to questions about arcane subjects? -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on October 17, 2016, 12:18:29 PM
Pete , pretty sure that is a "centrifugal" type clutch  rather that the plate type you normally get in car transmissions .


That housing above the the gear teeth holds all the bits , it similar in looks and operation to old fashioned drum brakes in a car but in this case it's centrifugal force rather than hydraulics or mechanical action that forces the friction pads to bite into and adhere to the drum sides

If you google centrifugal clutch you will gets lots of images of the innards


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 17, 2016, 01:08:55 PM
Ok, a new lead: Centrifugal clutch. Would make sence as there  no kind of control mechanism is necessary.
But what is that horizontal spindle with the wheel for? To me it seems, that it has to  move up and down the inner part ...


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on October 18, 2016, 09:45:29 AM
It looks similar to what steam donkeys use.
May be a search along those lines will help?
I've built several donkeys but no idea how their clutch works. Sorry
Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 18, 2016, 11:49:41 AM
Hi Marty

I think you solved the ridde. Thank you very much for the hint! Look what I found at the homeshopmachinist.net forum. Author is Brian Rupnow and he describes his clutch here:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/52188-Model-Steam-Donkey-Engine/page3


(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Clutch%201_zpsgtxaip68.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Clutch%201_zpsgtxaip68.png.html)

Even the cover sheet Volker mentioned fits into the picture!




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Barney on October 18, 2016, 03:32:24 PM
great stuff and superb
Barney


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on October 19, 2016, 06:19:08 AM
Thats GREAT!
May be when I make my 1/16th donkey I can make it "work"?
-Mj


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on October 30, 2016, 03:23:49 PM
Last week I had the opportunity to meet Peter in person and to see the model first-hand. It is even much better than what Peter's pictures can depict here. I'm deeply impressed by the quality of his work and his backing research for an item with danger threatening to get lost in a town's historiography. Not to mention the fact that Peter is a very hospitable, humble and friendly person. I'm really looking forward to see the water coming to the diorama and I'm quite sure that we'll all be awed by his results.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on January 05, 2017, 12:50:32 PM
A little update

Murphys Law striked again, i.e. shortly before I could finish the underwater part of the pillar, this part of the stonework slided off from the table and ... broke into pieces.
So, back to square one and here ist the result -uff! I tryed to create those stones more porous as they had been exposed to the water.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Groundwork%20019_zpsxfsmht9v.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Groundwork%20019_zpsxfsmht9v.jpg.html)

After finishing the groundwork (fillig, painting, planting) I will try to poure the water up to an even level (red marks) approx. 3.5 cm from the base bottom. I will use the casting water from Heki. Afterwards all parts above the waterline will be built up.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Groundwork%20018B_zpssvqlrkea.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Groundwork%20018B_zpssvqlrkea.jpg.html)





Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on January 05, 2017, 01:56:44 PM
Is it possible that you made the replacement stonework look as good or better than the originals? -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on January 05, 2017, 02:41:09 PM
I really love what you've accomplished with the stones for this project. The texture, color, and weathering are all perfect.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on January 05, 2017, 03:12:00 PM
Murphy can be capricious, but you have more than compensated!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on January 06, 2017, 12:44:09 PM
The texture, color, and weathering are all perfect.

Thanks a lot for your nice compliment. The colors seem to me still too vibrant and I have to tone them down a bit. But the greenish shine on some of the stones I discovered more by accident than by experiments. In one series I added some grass flocks to the cast compound and those green flocks gathered at the deepest point of the mould, giving the stones a slight mossy appearance.

But some additional thoughts to the groundwork: When he visited me last automn, Volker mentioned that in his opinion there are missing some pebbles that are usually present in a river bed. Volker says always right away, what he thinks, and that is a good thing! So I re-examined the pictures and took a look on-site. Here an example: You may see, there are a lot of debris but almost no pebbles! I assume that during construction all waste was simply disposed in the river bed, which at this point consists of sand still today.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Detail%2013_zpsebpbmnhk.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Detail%2013_zpsebpbmnhk.jpg.html)

Cheers, Peter



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 04, 2017, 09:54:16 AM
Hello

I asked myself, when textured sheet has been invited, i.e. corrugated plate.
Google gave no answer, but old iron stairs often have no profiled surface.
This is the sole top view of the subject (construction years: 1863-1865)  - impossible to see any details.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler3_5K_zpsfnbfijmy.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Pfeiler3_5K_zpsfnbfijmy.jpg.html)






Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 04, 2017, 07:25:13 PM
I think what you're referring to is diamond plate, also known as tread plate or Durbar plate. I've seen antique cars that had diamond plate on the running boards, so it has to date back to at least the 1920s, if not earlier.



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 05, 2017, 01:46:04 AM
That's what I meant, thanks for your help, Ray. I found a lot of photos of locomotives from those times, such as this one:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/P7314014_zpsvar1smj8.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/P7314014_zpsvar1smj8.jpg.html)

You will notice that there are smooth metal surfaces even at the steps. No pattern at all ... ??? ??? ???


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Barney on February 05, 2017, 04:12:04 AM
Looking good - very impressive - is there an overhaul view (all put together temporarily ) of the model so-far - or am I thinking to far ahead
excellent work
Barney


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 05, 2017, 05:53:06 AM
Is there an overhaul view (all put together temporarily ) of the model so-far - or am I thinking to far ahead
Barney

Hi Barney

Actually I am trying to bring all those different parts together. As I am forced to scratch build all parts I can't adjust them on the screen first. Often I have to redo or modify them with every newly finished part. That's very time consuming. To avoid boredom I am working on several different subjects simultaneous. On one day its the grundwork, then on the gears or the brass work. But very soon the fun begins again: Coloring and weathering !!!!    

Here the current status:

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20VIII%20008K_zpsnpobgjgr.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20VIII%20008K_zpsnpobgjgr.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20VIII%20007K_zpseikyqrg2.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20VIII%20007K_zpseikyqrg2.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on February 05, 2017, 07:15:46 AM
Like Barney said above, your work is very impressive!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on February 05, 2017, 02:20:34 PM
The care you put into your work is obvious. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 06, 2017, 03:37:08 PM
Wow, that already looks great! I love the color on the large gears.



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 10, 2017, 10:55:39 AM
... and what it looks like after a first painting session during the entire day. All parts loose put toghether!

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20IX%20044K_zpseqdqetgm.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20IX%20044K_zpseqdqetgm.jpg.html)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20IX%20041K_zps9hs1mkh0.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20IX%20041K_zps9hs1mkh0.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on February 10, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Wow! I can understand how it took all day to paint those gears. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on February 10, 2017, 02:55:24 PM
Wow! That is a marvelous mechanism!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hauk on February 10, 2017, 04:47:50 PM
... and what it looks like after a first painting session during the entire day.

Looks fantastic.
I would love a tutorial on how you painted the gears and other metal parts!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on February 10, 2017, 07:31:46 PM
Wow!

I also would like a tutorial on how you did that!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: nk on February 10, 2017, 07:36:12 PM
you can really feel the weight of those big gears. Beautiful job


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: EZnKY on February 10, 2017, 07:46:00 PM
Masterfully done!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on February 10, 2017, 09:34:41 PM
The color and texture is so perfect, it's truly hard to believe it's not real metal.



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on February 13, 2017, 06:56:33 AM
Just gorgeous!
Other than the camera angle it looks like the real thing!
-Marty


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on March 20, 2017, 12:14:18 PM
Thanks for your words!
Ok, I needed much more time as I had planned to select, as I hope, the right stuff for pouring the river. Finally I decided to try "Heki aqua Nr. 3550" (Thank you for the hint, Marcel!) which I poured in several layers. I'm quite happy overall and the stuff is very easy to handle indeed. There were only two or three air bubbles I had overlooked. But they were no problem, as they could be opened up by drilling and easy filled by the next layer. 

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Water%20I%20010Gross_zpssoffj8ac.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Water%20I%20010Gross_zpssoffj8ac.jpg.html)

As I had described bevor, the whole arrangement is dividided in an underwater and a surface zone. So the unbeloved creeping up the bank and walls can be prevented. As a consequence I had to poure in all parts up to the waterline, i.E. the walls, the piling and the water gauge.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Water%20I%20019Klein_zpsy0xwc0jh.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Water%20I%20019Klein_zpsy0xwc0jh.jpg.html)

Notice also the shadowing sprayed directly on the riverbed.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Water%20I%20021Klein_zpsgj87d17a.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Water%20I%20021Klein_zpsgj87d17a.jpg.html)

So far so good, BUT ...
...now I have to add some wave structure. There are some good tutorials around, but all are showing the same problem: The waves look always too prominent and uniform.
Stop! One artist, I don't know his name, demonstrates the way it should look! That looks  wonderful!

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Unbekannter%20Kuenstler_zpsrl5vsvuw.png~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Unbekannter%20Kuenstler_zpsrl5vsvuw.png.html)

So back to the workbench! ???

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on March 20, 2017, 01:05:59 PM
Jean Bernard Andre achieved pretty subtle results and described his method in the 2013 Modelers' Annual. If you don't have it, send me a private e-mail and I'll send you his article. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on March 20, 2017, 02:28:37 PM
Looks great so far!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: EZnKY on March 20, 2017, 06:03:58 PM
Looks really great!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on March 21, 2017, 02:44:10 PM
Peter,

what the others said. This is going to be something. What came to my mind: To avoid the creeping effect is the best base for realistic water. You already attached some greenish color to the upper base part's lower edge. Not sure if some dark tones and a slight glance from dumpness may add to unify it with the lower water part.

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on March 22, 2017, 01:12:29 PM

Not sure if some dark tones and a slight glance from dumpness may add to unify it with the lower water part.

I am sure, you all know the phenomenon I am confronted with: When you have fnished some part of a project you feel great satisfaction... until that moment, when you add some other parts or, in this particular case, you bring two parts together. Then you have to realise, that they don't match as planned ahead. Volker, I have to give you right, even even if with gritted teeth  ;D

No, seriously now, thank you for your input. I have to unify some other parts too, but I will do that, when all comes together finally. It is planned to hide the seam with a narrow band of algae and dumpness.

BTW. Does anybody know the artist in the last picture of my thread?   




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on March 22, 2017, 02:16:45 PM
Peter, Here is a link to the posting of the water that you like. It was posted on the Model Railroader Forum in October 2014.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/238387.aspx?sortorder=desc
I am not a member of that forum, but Selector/Crandell is still a very active member of there. I have a person I can contact to see if he can give me an address for Crandell.

Here is the little bit of information about him available next to that post:
Selector  (screen name)
Crandell (first? name)
Member since
February, 2005
From: Vancouver Island, BC
20,582 posts


This is the very brief description of how he created that river that was included with the photo:

" I paint the plywood river bed and then pour banks of plaster or ground goop.  When I have dammed the open sides of the vessel that is to be a portion of river or lake, usually just with good quality painters' tape, I mix and pour over the painted plywood a couple of thin pours of finish quality epoxy.  Over the epoxy I smear and stipple a layer of either gloss medium or gel gloss medium."


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on April 30, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
Although I received great help from Crandell (the artist, I mentioned further up here) I didn't find the trick to do some proper water surface up to this day. So I will do some further trials on scrap surfaces.
Meanwhile I did what I love to do: scratch building and painting. Finally I managed to finish all gear wheels - huh! Here the current status on my kitchen table.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20VIII%20009_zpshf4mq8k6.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Scratch%20VIII%20009_zpshf4mq8k6.jpg.html)

A prominent detail of the construction: The lower most gearwheels were protected (from flooding?) by some sort of fenders.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Peter_T1958/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20XI%20001_zpsdts5ho5g.jpg~original) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/Peter_T1958/media/Westlake%20Publishing%20Forum/Painting%20XI%20001_zpsdts5ho5g.jpg.html)
They seem to be of zinc coated sheet metal (may be it's more artistic license then reality), so I tried to represent that kind of surface by using a new technique copied from figure modelers: the wet-in-wet acrylic method. May be you are interested in a tutorial? Here is the link (in German but the pictures speak for themselves)
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.ch/2008/02/tutorial-nasspalette.html



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on April 30, 2017, 12:33:51 PM
Adequately spectacular. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: 1-32 on April 30, 2017, 08:50:18 PM
good water Peter cheers


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on April 30, 2017, 09:22:47 PM
Fantastic! And you've successfully captured the look of old, galvanized metal.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on May 01, 2017, 03:12:13 AM
Peter,

maybe I missed something. The tutorial is about using a wet color palette as a tool, but how did you finally achieve the look of that zinc coated metal? Which colors did you use?

The gears and fenders look great!

Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on May 01, 2017, 04:32:16 AM
Thank you for your feedbacks!

@Volker
I forgot that! May be it's because I am not a great fan of tutorials, although I read a lot of them all the time. My problem is, that I never archieve the results shown in all those tutorials. For me it's much more important to understand the techniques. That's why I wanted to share that tutorial.

In this specific case I compared pictures of old, galvanized metal. After that I put them away and tryed to catch that cloudy, blotchy white hue over the dark metallic ground color.
As basecolor I used Citadel game Color, Boltgun Metal (or whatever else is close at hand; any dark metal color would do it). Then I applied very thin cloudy coats of creamy white and traces of dark and light rust. The forementioned technique allowes you to control the colors carefully. That's all!

BTW. One fender took about two houres of very relaxing painting!







Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on May 01, 2017, 12:29:23 PM
For me, two hours of painting is anything but relaxing! In fact, construction isn't relaxing, either. I'm always afraid I will ruin something I spent hours creating.

But when I finally finish a model, it is relaxing and enjoyable to look at it.

Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on June 15, 2017, 11:52:41 AM
Peter, I sent you a private message with another technique for making slightly rippled water.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 07, 2017, 05:24:27 AM
A fist attempt to reactivate my thread, shot down by Photobucket. >:(
Here a quick iPhone photo of my current trials to create an appealing water surface (the black frame is added on the PC, to give an idea of the final appearance). Additional a picture of the "as it should be" .

(https://images45.fotki.com/v1649/photos/4/3824994/14381110/A008-vi.jpg) (https://images14.fotki.com/v219/photos/4/3824994/14381110/A009-vi.jpg)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on August 07, 2017, 09:49:49 AM
Peter, Your "current" trial (is that a pun hidden in there?) to make appealing water looks successful to me.

Can you post a tutorial or description of how you achieved that effect?
Also, your photo from your 30 April post is gone, i hope that is recoverable because I want to try modeling some old galvanized metal.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on August 07, 2017, 01:36:57 PM
Looking very promising!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 07, 2017, 02:41:52 PM
Thanks Guys! 
Bill, only now I see the pun. In fact: It's far away for me as a german speaking guy to dare something like that!


As all pictures have disappeared from the forum, here a overview over my current (no pun ;)) project:

(http://images45.fotki.com/v1649/photos/4/3824994/14381110/ScratchVIII009-vi.jpg)

(http://images45.fotki.com/v1649/photos/4/3824994/14381110/PaintingX016-vi.jpg) (http://images20.fotki.com/v1646/photos/4/3824994/14381110/PaintingVIII006-vi.jpg)

(http://images20.fotki.com/v1646/photos/4/3824994/14381110/WaterI022-vi.jpg)



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 07, 2017, 02:44:47 PM
And here again some "how I did" with the pictures:

(http://images60.fotki.com/v224/photos/4/3824994/14381110/PaintingXI001-vi.jpg)

In this specific case I compared pictures of old, galvanized metal. After that I put them away and tryed to catch that cloudy, blotchy white hue over the dark metallic ground color.
As basecolor I used Citadel game Color, Boltgun Metal (or whatever else is close at hand; any dark metal color would do it). Then I applied very thin cloudy coats of creamy white and traces of dark and light rust. The forementioned technique allowes you to control the colors carefully. That's all!


(https://images14.fotki.com/v390/photos/4/3824994/14381110/Water007-vi.jpg)

For those prominent ripples, caused by currents... water moving below the surface, and up to the surface, I did not have any idea to generate that effect. Then I discovered by chance such unusual fabric in the textile shop when I accompanied my wife on her Saturday shopping (obviously you should do this from time to time...!)
And here what I did: Soaking a piece oft fabric, that has been given the right shape, with Future (Pledge) applied by brush. Waiting for about half an hour, then carefully taken away. What remains is a slight trace of ... ripples.
Hope you understand what I wanted to describe  :-[

All the best,
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on August 07, 2017, 06:54:31 PM
Your mechanism and stonework is a joy to behold, Peter! It is also an amazing prototype. The water is a perfect addition.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on August 08, 2017, 12:56:19 AM
I agree with Chuck and would add that I can't find a flaw in your work. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on August 08, 2017, 06:56:06 AM
Peter, Thank you for posting those photos. And thank you for the photo and description of how you made the water surface you want. It worked very well. I will experiment with that idea too!

As far as making puns in another language, that is always tricky. I'm sure this is more mangled than I remember: A German Professor once tried to tell the class a Christmas joke in mixed "German" and "English":

Small boy: Was Bringt Sankt?
Mutter: Er bringt was er kann.
Small boy: Ich will kein "wasser kann"! Ich möchte ein Flugzeug!!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on August 08, 2017, 07:31:15 AM
The only fault in this project, and I feel I am speaking for many on this forum, is that we lack your skills and patience.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on August 08, 2017, 11:07:03 AM
Bill, Chuck, Russ and Lawton

Thank you for your kind words and your support here in this forum. I am learning a lot from you guys. I do not want to hide the fact, however, that there are still some material-related flaws in this methode. If you look closely enough in the following picture, you will see, that some ribbles have a flat top when dry (sketch B).

(https://images42.fotki.com/v1416/photos/4/3824994/14381110/Water002-vi.jpg)

In reality they look more like in sketch A. Apart of that, if you remove the fabric too early, "bubbles" are created which have to be opened with a sharp knife point or so. That's why the best time to remove the fabric is, when the liquid "strings up". Finally I will spray some thin layers of Pledge (blue) to homogenize the surface further (sketch C).

(https://images51.fotki.com/v1654/photos/4/3824994/14381110/RippleswithFuture-vi.jpg)

Cheers,
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Barney on August 08, 2017, 02:55:05 PM
Lovely colours and techniques
Barney


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on August 08, 2017, 10:30:11 PM
Very clever and interesting method for creating ripples!

Your gears are so well done, for a moment I wasn't sure whether I was looking at model photos or prototype, in the close ups.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on September 22, 2017, 07:23:09 AM
Peter, Hope this isn't hijacking your terrific thread, but here is an animated 3D video of building a stone bridge that just seems to compliment your work.https://www.expats.cz/prague/article/czech-tourism/video-amazing-recreation-of-14th-century-construction-of-charles-bridge/


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on September 22, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Peter's work is more realistic. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on September 23, 2017, 02:01:53 PM
I don't feel my thread hijacked at all. On the contrary, the video is very educational, even more the technology has not changed much over the years as you may see here in this photo from 1917

(https://media.fotki.com/2v2uk39oWxAGC7F.jpg)

@ Russ:  ::)



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 23, 2017, 12:41:34 PM
Hi all

Finally some minutes on the workbench yet. I' am about to build some of the scaffoldings used for maintaining the gears on the quayside. Concerning the ladders (or better stairways) I hoped to use some commerciel products in 1/50 scale. As you may see, that doesen't match at all!

(https://media.fotki.com/2v2uFcz6UxAGC7F.jpg) (https://media.fotki.com/2v2uFczA3xAGC7F.jpg)

Does anybody has a clever hint how soldering together something like that?



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on November 23, 2017, 12:52:40 PM
Your modeling far surpasses most commercial products. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: michael mott on November 23, 2017, 03:46:53 PM
Quote
Does anybody has a clever hint how soldering together something like that?

Looking at the level of perfection that you have already achieved with your own hands, I doubt that there is anything in the market that could hold a candle to your work.

Have you tried using one of the air soldering stations? they are amazing. assemble the work and hold it together with some pins use liquid cleaning type flux and flatten some tin solder so that is is like a foil 1/32 x .010 drape some short length over the ends of the treads play the heat gently on the opposite side and watch it flow together.

Michael 


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on November 24, 2017, 08:22:23 AM
I've had very good results using a jeweler's soldering pad, solder paste, and SWMBO's oven when she isn't home.  Pin the assembly to the heat resistant pad over a piece of baker's parchment (to help protect the pad from the flux), apply the solder paste sparingly to the parts, and bake.  You then turn the oven off and wait.  Many sub-assemblies used in the manufacture of brass models from the far east are made in similar fashion.  BTW, surface mounted electronic chips can be soldered on the stove top in a frying pan or in a toaster oven on a small slab of metal. 


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on November 24, 2017, 02:09:16 PM
I've been reading about and building models since the time of Piltdown Man and never knew about that method. My friend and onetime great modeler, Richard Christ, taught me a variation of Michael's technique (and slightly less precise) but soldering entire subassemblies in an oven? What a couple of great ideas! -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on November 24, 2017, 03:09:59 PM
Why not solder it piece by piece? First the bigger parts, thrn the small ones. Protecting the finished soldering areas with toothpaste helps to deflect heat and so does a piece of handkerchief drenched with water. An RSU would work fine, too.

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: lab-dad on November 25, 2017, 04:22:11 PM
I solder a lot of different things but I'm no expert.
However I would suggest a resistance soldering unit and wet paper towels on completed joints or close pins.
I use close pins a lot for soldering and often modify them.

Martin


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on November 25, 2017, 08:02:14 PM
     When doing some sorts of delicate work, it is easier to pin assemblies together add a tiny amount of Rio Grande Jewelry supply's 430 solder to the joints and bake.  If you have a number of small joins to make as on a 1:48 scale fire escape ladder, even a resistance setup might give you fits trying to add a connection without the one next to it falling apart.
     430 solder comes in a syringe and can be applied in truly tiny amounts.  I have no connection with Rio Grande Jewelry Supply other then a regularly anemic credit card.
     Not the only way to do a complicated job, but a trick to have in your pocket when you need it.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on November 25, 2017, 08:04:44 PM
What kind of soldering pad do you use that can have pins stuck into it?


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 26, 2017, 06:57:07 AM


Hi gents
Thank you very much for all your thoughts. Your proposals have many good ideas including an air soldering station. Working on a desk with minimum of equipment I have never heard of that. But especially this caught my attention and in the meantime I have googled around a lot. I think I will order one soon, particularly in view of a future project, that surely will be made of brass.
Concerning the ladder I will have to try it the hard way yet: soldering it piece by piece. (Obviously Volker knows my modest resources since he visited me some time ago, that's why he proposes this way ;-) Protecting the finished soldering areas with toothpaste is a helpful clue, thanks!

Ok, back to the workbench ...

P.S.
I also wonder ...
Quote
What kind of soldering pad do you use that can have pins stuck into it?



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hauk on November 26, 2017, 07:42:08 AM

P.S.
I also wonder ...
Quote
What kind of soldering pad do you use that can have pins stuck into it?


It is often called a honeycomb soldering pad. I have one, and I find it very useful!

(http://www.folk-rovere.org/mj/bilder/loddplate.jpg)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: fspg2 on November 26, 2017, 09:31:20 AM
Hi Peter,

I am always happy about your contributions to this great model!
 
Indeed this soldering pad ist very helpful!

For example I used it to get equal parts for a scaffold:

Geruest_5 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8054/2903Geruest_5.jpg)


Geruest_6 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8054/2903Geruest_6.jpg)


Geruest_7 (fspg2)
(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/8054/2903Geruest_7.jpg)

In Germany you can order such a soldering pad at:
a) Fischer/Pforzheim (https://www.goldschmiedebedarf.de/search.php?queryFromSuggest=&goldschmiedebedarf_de=channel&query=4726G)  or
b) Fohrmann (https://www.fohrmann.com/de/loetplatte-aus-keramik.html) and soldering steel pin: here (https://www.fohrmann.com/de/stahlstifte-fuer-loetplatte.html)
C)...???...

@Hauk
Where did yor get your pins, the are a little bit longer?

Frithjof


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 26, 2017, 09:34:51 AM
Ahh, I see. I've seen that at a local narrow gauge exhibition. But I am not sure, if this helps in case of very small items. And "my" ladders are very small - here a quick shot with my Iphone:

(https://media.fotki.com/2v2uFn5tMxAGC7F.jpg)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on November 26, 2017, 12:57:53 PM
Do you have to align all stairs freehand or are there milled/etched notches in the longer parts? If so I'd mount it with some CA, fix it in between some aluminum angles and then use the flambé torch; Griffon S39 soldering fluid and some solder to get it together.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on November 26, 2017, 02:01:02 PM
Cought! I had to align all stairs freehand - it was an afternoon full of "f***" and "sh**" as I had to desolder more then one step several times, cleaning the surfaces and restart. Yes, some sort of template would not be a bad idea :'(


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on November 26, 2017, 05:54:16 PM
Ray:
     I've had my pads for years and don't remember where I got them.  Mine work with model airplane "t" pins.  However, Rio Grande Jewelry Supply is my go to supplier for metal working needs (https://www.riogrande.com/) and you can find everything you need including a laser welder with a 3D microscope to do really minute work.  Enter usual denials of connection here.
     The honeycomb is another style of soldering pad from Rio Grande.  I do not know if they have the steel pins   I have a friend who once worked for my Father and is now a well known jeweler here in Virginia and Tim uses one of those to hold parts for silver soldering.
     The holding devices for the scaffolding are brilliant.  I don't know, but if they are made from stainless steel, common solder will not stick to them.  Rio Grande also sells soft SS wire in small gauges for holding parts and some pieces made from small titanium strip stock to hold pieces for silver soldering.   
     There are other tools will delight any modeler including a remarkable selection of pliers to form complex shapes.  
     And, their tool quality and prices are better and cheaper then the hobby supplier from New Jersey.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on November 27, 2017, 05:41:52 AM
I just think it's cheaper to buy goods in your own country, because then you have the lowest cost of transportation and customs.
Or you can buy them directly from the manufacturer only as long as it is probably possible from Asia, you may now order via web platforms there directly.

But I use a technique whose ingredients you get around the corner in the hardware store.
For furnaces There is a kind of fireclay stones which are very light and in which it is easy to insert pins from the household. In addition, the parts secure the brazing with silver with plaster. The needles are so inexpensive that they can also be disposed of and the gypsum can be removed easily after soldering.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on November 27, 2017, 09:58:07 AM
     I also subscribe to the "buy local" creed.  If I can get it from a local shop all the better.  I have a bench top which I assemble from fire brick each time I need to braze something heavy.  They were picked up on an expedition to the East Broad Top RR some time ago at a building supply center there.  With the interconnection of manufacturing and business across the globe. even when you buy from a local vendor, the possibility of the product coming from half way across the world is great.
     On the other hand, there are times when who or where a tool or supply comes from is more important such as Swiss made jeweler's saw blades or the wide range of low temperature solders from Carr's in the UK. 


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on February 18, 2018, 11:28:39 AM
I got a little time in and worked on the brass ladders. As Volker suggested (and in the absence of any alternative), I soldered it piece by piece. Countless attempts failed in the past month and there are more then one burn marks on my desk! To hold the tiny parts, I had to create or modify some appropriate clothespinds. As you might expected, there are still a lot of ladders to do - huh! I notice now, the supports In the last photo look a bit corpulent, but this is a question of perspective as you may see comparing with the other pic.

 (https://images53.fotki.com/v1657/photos/4/3824994/14381110/BrassIII4-vi.jpg) (https://images15.fotki.com/v1663/photos/4/3824994/14381110/BrassIII3-vi.jpg) (https://images47.fotki.com/v868/photos/4/3824994/14381110/BrassIII004-vi.jpg)

Towards the end of my projects imperfections catch one's attention more and more. In the current project, it's the water. It's too clear, a slight opacity would be more realistic. Furthermore, the ripples, caused by currents are only visible from a certain angle. Here is an additional need to improve something.
(The black frame is added on the PC!)

(https://images56.fotki.com/v1664/photos/4/3824994/14381110/WaterI024-vi.jpg) (https://images53.fotki.com/v1657/photos/4/3824994/14381110/WaterI023-vi.jpg)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on February 18, 2018, 02:35:58 PM
Is it possible you are too familiar with the model, looking at it a little too closely, and are therefore too critical of your own work? -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on February 18, 2018, 05:16:39 PM
The ladders and railings are looking good.

...the ripples, caused by currents are only visible from a certain angle
Peter, That is also true in full sized rivers. I have seen water that looked still and almost like glass from one angle, but from another direction it was obvious the water was moving. Your viewers will explore every part of your terrific model, they will see the water ripples when they look around.

...the water. It's too clear, a slight opacity would be more realistic. Here is an additional need to improve something.
I would be very cautious before trying to make that water look slightly more opaque. I think at this point with the transparent water already poured in place that if you attempt to put a thin coating on top it will look like a semi opaque layer of pollution floating just on the surface of the river. If you make the water completely opaque, that can work, but then you will loose the wonderful effect of seeing the stones in the shallow water unless you are very careful how and where you blend from opaque to transparent. Practice on a new piece of similar transparent water to see what the effect looks like. To me the photo of the greener water on the right does not seem too transparent from that angle. A lot will depend on the direction(s) of your lighting.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on May 06, 2018, 04:04:06 AM
No, no, my project did not die. This ought to be the update to announce the Good News having completed the soldering work.

(https://images44.fotki.com/v447/photos/4/3824994/14381110/BrassIII004-vi.jpg)

 I was actually quite happy with the result... had there not been a new finding an a photo: Contrary to the original plans (I have found them in the archive of the former foundry) the ladder footings stood not on, but besides the cast iron pillar - what means, they are too steep (Again: research, research, research!).

(https://images16.fotki.com/v368/photos/4/3824994/14381110/BrassIII005-vi.jpg)

New approach: I draw some etching templates to restart once again. Today the parts arrived, so I hope to show some new results soon.

@Bill
Thank you very much for your collaborative support and your steady helpful inputs!




Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on May 06, 2018, 08:17:11 AM
I am glad to see that in addition to modern technology in the production of the etching that you also go "old school" with the modified clothes pins.  The custom made long nosed one is brilliant.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on May 06, 2018, 01:01:35 PM
Well, everything else is perfect so the stairs should be, too. -- Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on May 06, 2018, 01:31:13 PM
Peter, It's good to see the latest progress on your project.
I have no doubt that the new stairs will look just right.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on May 10, 2018, 01:20:37 PM
Regarding Chucks or Frithjofs incredible work (and Frithjofs speed) I couldn't wait to take a closer look on the new PE parts.

A quick trial showed, that with my etched mounting gauge assembling and soldering of the tiny parts becomes much easier. It took merely 30 minutes to assemble one example ...

(https://images47.fotki.com/v1660/photos/4/3824994/14381110/BrassIII006-vi.jpg) (https://images15.fotki.com/v1663/photos/4/3824994/14381110/BrassIII007-vi.jpg)






Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on May 10, 2018, 08:22:49 PM
Very cool!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: TRAINS1941 on May 10, 2018, 09:58:53 PM
Really nice.

Jerry


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Allan G on May 11, 2018, 06:40:57 AM
Beautiful work!!
I've modified clothespins before but never to the degree of yours. I need to make some....Allan


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 11, 2018, 09:39:44 AM
During the (very) hot summer months I wasn't in the mood for modelling. In between I wanted to surprise my pupils (I am premary teacher) with a space craft in the classroom, as the first scool subject after holidays should be "space flight".

(https://images53.fotki.com/v716/photos/4/3824994/14381110/Mercury-vi.jpg)

So hour by hour, week by week passed quickli but finally I had time to return to my work bench and finish my soldering work.
Priming and painting took two days and finally I could go to my favourite part: the weathering - here the result. However, the handrail may need some more polished upperside to look more realistic ...  :-\

(https://images34.fotki.com/v1605/photos/4/3824994/14381110/BrassIII009-vi.jpg)  (https://images54.fotki.com/v627/photos/4/3824994/14381110/PaintingXI006-vi.jpg)



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on October 11, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
Peter, the handrails look good, I agree maybe a little polishing would add to the realism.

But mostly I wanted to comment on your Mercury capsule. It looks big enough for a student to sit in and type on the keyboard. Did you build it? My dad worked on the manned space program from mercury through Apollo. We got to tray samples of some of the first freeze dried space food, including freeze dried strawberry ice cream which then was less exciting to taste than it sounded.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 11, 2018, 11:54:40 AM
Hi Bill

Thanks for your comment. I will improve that tonight!

The kids are 10 to 11 years old and they love most to sit in and do some number games and language games. We also created "space food" ourselves - afterwards we had to clean the classroom for about two hours.  >:(
The capsule (a rough approach to a Mercury space craft) I made from roof battens and thick cardboards.

Cheers,
Peter


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: finescalerr on October 11, 2018, 12:46:44 PM
The handrails only need polishing if workmen would use them a lot. If they get infrequent use they look excellent.

The space capsule is impressive. You students must have thought it was the greatest thing they'd ever seen in school.

Russ


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Chuck Doan on October 11, 2018, 10:05:52 PM
Coming along nicely! Great space capsule too!


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on October 12, 2018, 02:19:14 AM
Peter,

the soldering work at the stairs and handrails looks good, but I'm a bit concerned about the general look of the stairs. I'd expect them to originally be painted as the cast iron parts are, so at least some of the color would shine through the rust stains, which surely have been there in that humid environment? Howsoever the rusty coloring itself looks very convincing.

Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 12, 2018, 10:31:09 AM
I'm a bit concerned about the general look of the stairs. I'd expect them to originally be painted as the cast iron parts are, so at least some of the color would shine through the rust stains, which surely have been there in that humid environment?
Cheers,
Volker

Volker,

thank you very much for your input - that's what I am expecting from this forum. I must agree, after the first positiv impression I became a little bit insecure too, even more, when I looked at the stairs on the rear side.
I wanted them even darker, as they were located on the shaded side oft the abutment. 

(https://images43.fotki.com/v1218/photos/4/3824994/14381110/PaintingXI008-vi.jpg)

I must realise now that subtle variations in rust surfaces are very hard to archieve in that scale. But I will try it again and startet a coplete makeover. Let's see what is possible  ;)

(https://images54.fotki.com/v627/photos/4/3824994/14381110/PaintingXI10-vi.jpg)


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hauk on October 12, 2018, 03:35:13 PM
I'm a bit concerned about the general look of the stairs. I'd expect them to originally be painted as the cast iron parts are, so at least some of the color would shine through the rust stains, which surely have been there in that humid environment?
Cheers,
Volker

Volker,

thank you very much for your input - that's what I am expecting from this forum. I must agree, after the first positiv impression I became a little bit insecure too, even more, when I looked at the stairs on the rear side.
I wanted them even darker, as they were located on the shaded side oft the abutment. 

Your work is fantastic, and I think the stairs look great. Especially the one installed down on the abutment. The one installed directly beside the wheel maybe looks a little too different from the casted parts as Volker suggests. But maybe you plan some final weathering to blend everything together?

This discussion illustrates how valuable prototype pictures in color are! It´s really the only way to settle discussions like this.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 13, 2018, 02:14:29 AM

This discussion illustrates how valuable prototype pictures in color are! It´s really the only way to settle discussions like this.

You are right, researches are most important. And, it's hard to believe, but there is a prototype pictures in color still existing. Here you can see the remains of Pillar number 1 with some railing. Very dark colour (hardly original?!?) and rusty. But remember, that was in 1966!

(https://images45.fotki.com/v1200/photos/4/3824994/14381110/46499778_3926146224417191559_o-vi.jpg)
Pfeiler 1966


Nevertheless I like such constructive comments very much and I hope this forum remains the place, where we can get some really serious suggestions from high-calibre modelers like Volker, Chuck and all those masters here.  

Here annother view of one of the pillars back in the late 1890s. Again: very dirty and oily appearance except the huge wheels.

(https://images54.fotki.com/v101/photos/4/3824994/14381110/Pfeiler1_1-vi.jpg)
Pfeiler 1






Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Bill Gill on October 13, 2018, 06:06:32 AM
Peter, I tried to reduce the redness of that 1966 photo. This version probably doesn't have more accurate color, but it is less red.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on October 13, 2018, 07:44:06 AM
Another bit of image editing. I'd need the high resolution picture to make more of it.

(http://www.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/9000/571546499778_3926146224417191559_o-vib.jpg)

I recall static iron structures having been painted with tar sometimes and that is what it looks like here a bit. I don't think it is the original color - but what is original? For sure they had to repaint that each three or four years. I do much more wonder at the huge Swiss persons, especially the one behind the house :o !
Seriously: isn't it amazing how low the handrail is? That knee high one provides no fall protection at all.



Cheers,
Volker


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Design-HSB on October 13, 2018, 08:56:18 AM
Hi Peter,

At that time it was normal to use asphalt varnish as corrosion protection for iron. Today of course banned, but black satin finish is therefore certainly the right choice. This will ensure that your great railings get the right finish.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Ray Dunakin on October 13, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
Great work so far, Peter!

Volker, nice job adjusting the colors on that photo.


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Peter_T1958 on October 15, 2018, 02:29:09 AM
I recall static iron structures having been painted with tar sometimes and that is what it looks like here a bit. I don't think it is the original color - but what is original?

At that time it was normal to use asphalt varnish as corrosion protection for iron. Today of course banned, but black satin finish is therefore certainly the right choice.

Thanks a lot for adjusting the colors and for your advises. And good question: What is the original? I have read that with the asphalt varnish too and in the pictue the low handrail(?) looks so ideed. Most of the prototype pictures show a lighter colour yet (as Volker statet) BUT also a very dirty and worn appearance. So I repainted one ladder again for comparing...
Hmm, thats far away from tar or asphalt, no? :-\


(https://images14.fotki.com/v219/photos/4/3824994/14381110/PaintingXI012-vi.jpg)



Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Lawton Maner on October 15, 2018, 06:43:21 AM
The top rung of the railing on a well used ladder will develop a polished look even when painted because of the constant rubbing of hands and gloves across the surface.  The oil naturally found in the workers' hands will be enough, over time, to help form the patina.  As an example close to most of us, look at how the steering wheel of our cars gets a patina from being handled.
 


Title: Re: Steel cable transmission
Post by: Hydrostat on October 15, 2018, 11:50:42 AM
I second what Lawton said and do add the footsteps as candidates for a rather blackich/blueish/shiny appearance - you mind find that at sewers/covers in less frequented pedestrian areas. Howsoever the general appearance to me now looks very convincing!